38 male virgin - Pros and Cons of paying for ***

[red_radio]

I'll be 38 in a couple of months. I'm still a virgin. I have kissed, I have hugged, I have held hands, I even got the point of being on top of a woman but never penetrated (she asked me to stop).

Now about my life. I've been sexually abused by my uncle and other two guys, at different times, between the ages of 11 and 15. Horrible childhood.
Alcoholic father. Mother couldn't divorce because nowhere to go so we had to put up with father's shoutings and beatings for years, day in day out. Poverty. Cold rooms. No shower - heating water on the stove to wash ourselves. Clothes from the second hand shops. Severe dental issues.

Relationships with women: a few, but short-lived. Weeks to few months. A lot of things happened, but no ***.

I've had mainly jobs in retail. I've worked in a supermarket for 10 years, of which 4 years a fresh produce department manager. Weekends/days off mainly filled with ****, gambling and ordering take aways. For years and years. Very little socializing.

15 years of gambling. I'm done with it since the January 1st 2024.

20 years of **** addiction, but still fighting it. I've learned that running, fresh air and any type of physical sports help a lot.

10+ years of therapy with 3 different therapists. Mediocre all of them I'd say. The last one introduced me to a book club, which is golden. Great opportunity for me to get out of the house.

I don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs.

The good things:
- I've run a half-marathon in 2hrs
- I've got a degree in English & German
- I've lost nearly 25 pounds in 2 years, with water fasting and running
- joined a book club (I love reading)

All in all, I would say I feel pretty normal most of the time. But the loneliness is killing me some days/nights... I guess it feels that way for an increasing number of people, even married ones. What is wrong with this day and age? There is so much abundance and opportunities, yet I was reading the other day that there are young people feeling so lonely that they hug the clothes in their wardrobe.


So the main thing that still pains me is how am I still a virgin?! For a long, long time I thought if I should pay some escort or wait some more. But life is so short, only this year I've been to two two funerals - one of my uncles (63) and mother of my brother's fiancee (54, cancer). So why not pay for it, get it done with. But then I'm thinking, what if I open another can of worms - some disease, another bad habit/addiction etc

I've tried dating sites, I try to put myself out there - dress nice, smell nice - but still no succes. Perhaps I'm not making enough money...

So what do you guys think? Should I pay for it or wait for true love ?
Or any other advice you have, would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Unsigned]

I've been paying since 1985. It's all I have ever done.

Pros:
- You'll finally get to have ***
- You will be able to pick and choose amongst a wide variety of females. Including some young and extremely hot ones depending upon how much you are willing to spend.
- You can simply leave afterwards

Cons:
- It will not help with your loneliness. If anything it will feel worse a few hours later. I drink to alleviate that (and other things)
- If you spend more to see the young hot ones (I do), then you will eventually ONLY have eyes for them. Average looking women and women your own age will become invisible to you. And let's face it, for most of us guys, those are the ones we have a reasonable chance of getting into a real relationship with
- As you age, you will more and more reflect on your life choices and possible regret (as I do) the road you went down
- If your money situation is tight, this will be a real financial burden on you
- Yes STIs are always risk. Even with a condom. If you do pay for play, you simply have to accept the risk.
- Depression and alcoholism often come with this lifestyle.

My advice:
- Maybe try it once or twice just to lose your virginity, but then focus on trying to find girlfriend.
- Going forward, if while you are trying to find a GF, and you really need a release, then once in a while go to a Massage Parlor where they do "happy endings" (manual). That is by far the lowest risk of an STI.

Good luck to you.

PS.
Sorry to hear about your childhood situation. That is really terrible. I hope those men went to prison.

 

[red_radio]

I've been paying since 1985. It's all I have ever done.

Pros:
- You'll finally get to have ***
- You will be able to pick and choose amongst a wide variety of females. Including some young and extremely hot ones depending upon how much you are willing to spend.
- You can simply leave afterwards

Cons:
- It will not help with your loneliness. If anything it will feel worse a few hours later. I drink to alleviate that (and other things)
- If you spend more to see the young hot ones (I do), then you will eventually ONLY have eyes for them. Average looking women and women your own age will become invisible to you. And let's face it, for most of us guys, those are the ones we have a reasonable chance of getting into a real relationship with
- As you age, you will more and more reflect on your life choices and possible regret (as I do) the road you went down
- If your money situation is tight, this will be a real financial burden on you
- Yes STIs are always risk. Even with a condom. If you do pay for play, you simply have to accept the risk.
- Depression and alcoholism often come with this lifestyle.

My advice:
- Maybe try it once or twice just to lose your virginity, but then focus on trying to find girlfriend.
- Going forward, if while you are trying to find a GF, and you really need a release, then once in a while go to a Massage Parlor where they do "happy endings" (manual). That is by far the lowest risk of an STI.

Good luck to you.

PS.
Sorry to hear about your childhood situation. That is really terrible. I hope those men went to prison.

Thank you for your input & advice.

I really hope you give up your drinking. It's a terrible demon - my father was a good man when sober, but raging when drunk.

As for my abusers, I have chosen to forget and forgive. They only hurt themselves. I think God/the universe will take care of things somehow in the long run.

I'm also wondering, what if I don't have full *** with a hooker? What I mean - just observing her naked body at first, then maybe just a ******* and so on, but no ***. Maybe I'll then develop more courage to approach women in real life, or something happens in my mind that makes more confident around women..I don't know.

 

[Unsigned]

I'm also wondering, what if I don't have full *** with a hooker?

Yes that is exactly what I meant with the massage parlor and "happy ending" (a euphemism for h@ndj0b).

I really hope you give up your drinking. It's a terrible demon - my father was a good man when sober, but raging when drunk.

Thanks.
Luckily it doesn't make me violent.
Just adds to the depression.

 

[user 135671]

What values embody worthwhile *** for you?. My philosophy is this, weather it happens during a one night stand, a summer fling, a friends with benefits arrangement or a life long marriage, there must be a base human connection, two willing, interested humans agreeing to a good time and a special, intimate experience.

So putting a monetary value to this encounter, like getting your car washed or a haircut, removes all the fun. She's not there because she finds you attractive, charming or seductive so what's the point?. Yea, I write this from my middle class pedestal. I've never fallen on life threatening hard times, but I know this, women, every single one of them, are worth more than their bodies. In an ideal world everyone would see that.

 

[okidoke]

I wish I had some sage advice that I could add to the wise words above. I’m sorry what you’ve gone thru. You are resilient though and that is something to be proud of.

I guess all I can say from my own experience is that if you do pay for any sort of intimate encounter, just be of the frame of mind that it’s just an experience, which can be very rewarding mind you, but keep any heartfelt feelings out of it. They’re doing a job to earn money and like all workers, there are those who are good and bad at what they do. You could feel quite disappointed afterward or wonderfully elated and adored. It’s not often the later. Quality doesn’t necessarily come with higher price. Reviews can assist in making choices.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I'll be 38 in a couple of months. I'm still a virgin. I have kissed, I have hugged, I have held hands, I even got the point of being on top of a woman but never penetrated (she asked me to stop).

Now about my life. I've been sexually abused by my uncle and other two guys, at different times, between the ages of 11 and 15. Horrible childhood.
Alcoholic father. Mother couldn't divorce because nowhere to go so we had to put up with father's shoutings and beatings for years, day in day out. Poverty. Cold rooms. No shower - heating water on the stove to wash ourselves. Clothes from the second hand shops. Severe dental issues.

Relationships with women: a few, but short-lived. Weeks to few months. A lot of things happened, but no ***.

I've had mainly jobs in retail. I've worked in a supermarket for 10 years, of which 4 years a fresh produce department manager. Weekends/days off mainly filled with ****, gambling and ordering take aways. For years and years. Very little socializing.

15 years of gambling. I'm done with it since the January 1st 2024.

20 years of **** addiction, but still fighting it. I've learned that running, fresh air and any type of physical sports help a lot.

10+ years of therapy with 3 different therapists. Mediocre all of them I'd say. The last one introduced me to a book club, which is golden. Great opportunity for me to get out of the house.

I don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs.

The good things:
- I've run a half-marathon in 2hrs
- I've got a degree in English & German
- I've lost nearly 25 pounds in 2 years, with water fasting and running
- joined a book club (I love reading)

All in all, I would say I feel pretty normal most of the time. But the loneliness is killing me some days/nights... I guess it feels that way for an increasing number of people, even married ones. What is wrong with this day and age? There is so much abundance and opportunities, yet I was reading the other day that there are young people feeling so lonely that they hug the clothes in their wardrobe.


So the main thing that still pains me is how am I still a virgin?! For a long, long time I thought if I should pay some escort or wait some more. But life is so short, only this year I've been to two two funerals - one of my uncles (63) and mother of my brother's fiancee (54, cancer). So why not pay for it, get it done with. But then I'm thinking, what if I open another can of worms - some disease, another bad habit/addiction etc

I've tried dating sites, I try to put myself out there - dress nice, smell nice - but still no succes. Perhaps I'm not making enough money...

So what do you guys think? Should I pay for it or wait for true love ?
Or any other advice you have, would be greatly appreciated.

First off, I'm sorry to hear about the abuse you endured, that sounded horrific. And the conditions you were living in.

And good job kicking the gambling, and on fighting the ****. I agree that both of those things are bad for you, and your life would be better without them - you'll make more room in your life for better-quality things.

I totally get you about being a virgin, I'm just about your age and in a similar situation, I've never been with a woman either. I'm so weary of it. Not being able to attract anyone makes me feel insulted, humiliated, like I'm some kind of inherently low-quality person.

But then again, that's a big reason why I would never pay for it (along with fear of STDs, including the worst one). To me, paying for it would be like me confirming, and accepting, the insult that I really am so inferior, such a loser, such an inherently low-quality person, that I have to stoop so low as to pay for something that most people get as a natural, given part of life that they don't have to do anything special for, or go out of their way for, make any kind of special conscious effort to do anything other than what they normally do in their lives.

To me it would be like, instead of letting the bully stuff me in a locker, it would be like opening the locker and stuffing myself in voluntarily - resigning myself to and accepting my place. I'd hate that, and no matter what I did afterwards, I could never live it down. Pride and dignity are extremely important to me, they're some of my core values. I feel like as long as I don't stoop to certain lows, or allow life to push me into certain lows, as long as I don't accept the insult, then I'm not agreeing with the world and other people that I'm a loser/inferior/low-quality, and I can still hold my head up high.

Once something is done, it can't be undone. Once you pay for it, you will always be someone that paid for it, no matter what you do in the future. I understand that not everyone thinks the same way about it that I do, but I would not want that hanging over me for the rest of my life.

Also I don't think it will solve your problem. Paying for it doesn't mean you actually attracted someone (which in and of itself feels bad, I don't see how it could be a self-esteem booster, just a self-esteem killer), so the next time you are lonely, you'll just be in the same position again. You still won't know how to attract someone, get them to think and feel the right way about you. That's another reason why I think it would be a better use of your time to learn how to be more attractive, to get into a life that you are happier about, and gives you more good feelings about yourself. That seems to be the common theme with this, in general.

It sounds like you have some things going for you already, like dressing nice, and your health/not drinking, smoking, or doing drugs. You have a couple degrees, which shows that you can learn things, and you like to read which should give you something to talk about.

I would say that, whether it is wrong or right, most women are going to want you to have a different career though. It's just the way most people are. But like you said, you have those degrees, so you should be capable of more than what you're doing. It will probably make you feel better too about yourself, and that energy should radiate forward to anyone you meet.

I would say, try to do more things you are proud of, instead of things that cause you shame, or just don't fulfill you, like the vices you mentioned. Vices don't really give a person something to show for themselves or something to talk about.

I wish you luck trying to get out of this, I know all too well how hard it is. But I wouldn't do anything drastic. I'd say keep trying to be better, and do more things that let you hold your head up high.

 

[user 191056]

You have to make that choice, and in your own words give it meaning. Don't get connected in a way that it becomes another addiction or fall in love, or like gambling. Start with a massage parlour, they usually end up in ***, it's generally protected, and over in a flash. I work with a guy who's 42 and a virgin, he doesn't go on about it ever, subject never gets brought up, maybe he's happy with Ms Palmer. Just go do it, get it over and done with, then tell us about it.

 

[Unsigned]

To me, paying for it would be like me confirming, and accepting, the insult that I really am so inferior, such a loser, such an inherently low-quality person, that I have to stoop so low as to pay for something that most people get as a natural, given part of life that they don't have to do anything special for, or go out of their way for, make any kind of special conscious effort to do anything other than what they normally do in their lives.

Hey, listen.
You know I like & respect you.
But the way I see that sentence...it is incredibly judgemental.
Yes I suppose I am a loser who "pays for it". But the way I see it, at least I can afford hot girls, and not have to settle for average looking, age appropriate women to whom I would have access (and yes, I have had women to whom I am not attracted show attention towards me).
I just need young, petite girls with pretty faces.
And if I have to pay...that's what I will do.
To each his own.
And if it is not for you, cool.
But I don't think paying it makes me a terrible person.

 

[user 191088]

Honestly, the whole idea that *** is something "that most people get as a natural, given part of life that they don't have to do anything special for" is just absurd. If that were the case, prostitution wouldn't be a thing, and even if it still were a thing, it wouldn't be as lucrative as it is and has always been. The fact is that there is a gigantic need for *** on men's part and most women aren't willing to satisfy that need. That's where the money comes in.

You see, sometimes we are our own enemies. If you set out to achieve your objectives and from the very get-go they're unrealistic and don't match reality at all, you'll get nothing out of it except frustration. I think men in general need to learn to see women not so much as the objects of their sexual desire, but as the unique persons that they individually truly are, not for women's sake, of course, but for men's own sake. This is an important point: in a way, men are always paying for ***, for their access to women. There's hardly any free ***, simply because women just don't have the same libido and they very intelligently use *** as a way to get things from men. Before you can indulge in these pleasures, you have to know what you're dealing with, otherwise this will be your doom.

Too many men lose themselves in this rabbit hole when, in fact, they always had at their disposal the means to live happy, dignified and worthwhile lives, they just failed or refused to see the truth, the truth upon which - and only upon which - a set of appropriate ethical assumptions can be based.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Hey, listen.
You know I like & respect you.
But the way I see that sentence...it is incredibly judgemental.
Yes I suppose I am a loser who "pays for it". But the way I see it, at least I can afford hot girls, and not have to settle for average looking, age appropriate women to whom I would have access (and yes, I have had women to whom I am not attracted show attention towards me).
I just need young, petite girls with pretty faces.
And if I have to pay...that's what I will do.
To each his own.
And if it is not for you, cool.
But I don't think paying it makes me a terrible person.

Thanks, and I do appreciate that.

I was somewhat concerned, after I posted that, that what I said would be taken strongly, because I feel strongly on the issue.

But, a few things first:

I did not mean to say that you ARE a loser, because one, you're skilled, and to me, being skilled and being a loser are mutually exclusive - if a person is one, they can't be the other, they can't be both. It's my own rule, but it's always been something I believed. I mean, that alone is something that I wish I had kept in mind when I fell off course in life - I don't like being insulted, having been insulted a lot growing up, and had I stayed on track, I could have at the very least had peace of mind that I am not a loser, and I could have vanquished that particular insecurity for good. Sure, someone could say the words, but they'd have no meaning, and therefore no sting, so I wouldn't be worried about it anymore. I'd know I'm normal, and I'd know it's nonsense. I kind of went nuts for a while and forgot some of the things that are really important to me.

Two, even if I said anyone who does that is a loser, I would also have to include a lot of my favorite musicians, either for this issue, or for other things like doing hard drugs, especially the needle ones. If I could only have respect for people who only did things I approve of, all the time, there would be almost no one left.

I didn't mean so much total condemnation of the person doing these things. Just the behavior.
A person can otherwise be a good and decent person, or a respectable person, but sometimes do things that are not the best.

Another thing is, a lot of what I said is, how doing those things would make me feel about myself. I projected myself into the situation. I often say that this and that thing would make me feel bad about myself, but I don't mean to say that everyone in that situation should feel bad about themselves. If they don't, it's fine. It's their individual business. It's just how I would feel, if it was me.

Part of it is wanting the power to make things go my way, at least to the normal extent, and feeling I don't have that, would make me feel bad. But the other thing is, I've never understood how people that have good things going for them, to have good things in life, would take such risks. I hear about it and I think, why risk throwing all of that away? One thing about me is, one of the early things that messed me up in life, was a phobia of a certain disease, I don't even want to speak it aloud but you know the one, the one that's not just an annoyance or inconvenience but actually scary. While other teens around me were into typical teenage stuff, I went beyond scared straight, I became dysfunctional. It just looked like such a terrible way to go. I'm more functional than I was then, but still, nothing could make me want to take that risk.

Anyway. I did not mean to call you a loser, or say you should feel like one - only how I would feel about myself in this situation. And I'm sorry if my wording made you feel that way.

But what I will say though, is why the risk? Isn't it scary? Or at least, wasn't it scary back then, at that place and time? I think that was one of the biggest problem areas during that time as well, especially due to the overlap between prostitutes and hard drug use.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Honestly, the whole idea that *** is something "that most people get as a natural, given part of life that they don't have to do anything special for" is just absurd.

I'd disagree. I look up and down the street here, and just about every house represents a couple.

All of my friends too, and most of people I know in general, are coupled off, or at least have been at some point. We weren't the dudebro society kids either, we were on the geeky end of things. And they're still coupled off. None of my friends or the people I know had to be superhuman to get into a relationship. So I'd say yeah, it is normal. It's like having friends. Almost anyone has friends, it's not some exotic luxury like fame. It's a natural, normal part of life.

 

[Unsigned]

But what I will say though, is why the risk? Isn't it scary? Or at least, wasn't it scary back then, at that place and time?

Yes, and I know what you are talking about.
It was very scary in the 80s and TBH I am still taken aback how GenZ girls are not as vigilant.
But...
Biology comes into play.
And it is a very strong impulse.
Back in the 80s, the girls just simply wouldn't allow certain things unless you were a VERY constant regular and built up trust over time.
But now? Cheebus, it IS kinda scary how they will "break the rules" for more money or if they want to hook you in as a regular.
I really don't know the answer.
I suppose at some point the "I'll be dead soon" scenario comes into play, and many guys (including me) will weigh that against "safety first".

Also, no reason to be sorry. I know what I am and I know how people feel about that. If I wasn't able to deal with occasional differing viewpoints, I wouldn't be so transparent.

Have great week and a great fourth!

 

[user 191088]

I'd disagree. I look up and down the street here, and just about every house represents a couple.

All of my friends too, and most of people I know in general, are coupled off, or at least have been at some point. We weren't the dudebro society kids either, we were on the geeky end of things. And they're still coupled off. None of my friends or the people I know had to be superhuman to get into a relationship. So I'd say yeah, it is normal. It's like having friends. Almost anyone has friends, it's not some exotic luxury like fame. It's a natural, normal part of life.

It's not like having friends at all! Do you put the same effort you spend trying to get a girlfriend into making friends as well? and regardless of your answer, why then haven't you got - I assume - a girlfriend/wife/friends with benefits/whatever, yet you have friends? your own personal circumstances show what you're saying is false! I believe you try harder to get a special other than you do making friends. Why haven't you succeeded in the former, yet you did in the latter?

 

[ardour]

I'm a 45 year old who has never been in a relationship. A couple of "dates" at the most.

50-70 years ago, a shy, awkward, 'broken' man could still get married because people were expected to settle early and women had to be economically dependent on men. That's no longer the case and so society is experiencing a surge in numbers of men - who typically lack masculine qualities or have traumatic backgrounds like you mention - getting to 30 without dating experience. Men who can't fulfill their (often odious and stressful) gender role of having to approach dozens, maybe even hundreds of times, because they lack the resilience.

Then the inexperience becomes the red flag. Now it's The 40 Year Old Virgin but without the happy ending (no pun).

I don't believe paying for it is a viable option. I wouldn't. You no doubt already have rock-bottom levels of self-esteem because of what you went through. *** with a potentially high/drugged woman who wouldn't speak to you otherwise isn't going to help. Personally, I find the idea horrifying and am happy to die a virgin in preference to that.

To be honest, what you mention about income might have something to do with the lack of interest.

38 is just about middle aged also, and you really have to weigh up your options at that point and assess whether the time/effort required to find someone is worth it.

 

[ardour]

NM

 

[red_radio]

I don't believe paying for it is a viable option. I wouldn't. You no doubt already have rock-bottom levels of self-esteem because of what you went through. *** with a potentially high/drugged woman who wouldn't speak to you otherwise isn't going to help. Personally, I find the idea horrifying and am happy to die a virgin in preference to that.

I agree with a lot of things said above, but with this sentence I cannot come to terms with.
I will not, under any circumstances, die a virgin. I will do whatever it takes to attract a woman or I will pay whatever it takes.

 

[user 191088]

I agree with a lot of things said above, but with this sentence I cannot come to terms with.
I will not, under any circumstances, die a virgin. I will do whatever it takes to attract a woman or I will pay whatever it takes.

Why are you all so afraid of being virgins? Just look at this ****. It's like you're always thinking about it because it is pretty much the only thing you guys talk about on this site. No wonder women don't like you, you only think about it. Jesus ******* Christ, leave your homes, go do something, touch some grass etc.

 

[red_radio]

I haven't made a decision yet, but I think one way or another I'll make it happen by mid September (my birthday is on the 11th).

Regarding paying for it, I don't think it's degrading or it's only for losers etc. I think there are various types of men in this world that chose to pay at some point. There are disabled people. There are sexually abused people or with other traumas (like me). There are even talented or smart, skilled people who for some reason - maybe shyness- pay for it. There are people who cheat on their wives. There are artists. Then there were soldiers who, throughout history, during wars, payed for it. Are they all losers or degraded? I doubt.

It's not such a big deal after all. You give what is owed to the girl, you do your business, and then you go back to your bleak life. It is what it is.

Yes, in an ideal world everyone is coupled off, a parent at 30 and a grandparent at 50. And live happily ever after. But the world we live in is far from perfect. More like a ruthless game... But I don't want to become bitter or resentful.

My only concern is not to open another Pandora's box by taking this road. I know too well how addiction looks like. I don't want to blow my money monthly. So I secretly hope my first experience will be so awful I won't come back a second time and it'll push me to make more effort in the real world

But at the end of the day one has to get some pleasure out of this dreadful life, one way or another.

 

[TheSkaFish]

It's not like having friends at all! Do you put the same effort you spend trying to get a girlfriend into making friends as well? and regardless of your answer, why then haven't you got - I assume - a girlfriend/wife/friends with benefits/whatever, yet you have friends? your own personal circumstances show what you're saying is false! I believe you try harder to get a special other than you do making friends. Why haven't you succeeded in the former, yet you did in the latter?

The TL;DR answer is, because I'm not boyfriend material yet. My demons have kept me from it.
They have kept me from choosing a profession and personality, because I don't know what I can get good at, don't know what I'd even like, and don't know what's the "right" answer - what's authentically "me", and what would connect me with someone. I don't want to pick the wrong answer and spend my whole life on a wild-goose chase.

(But choosing nothing, continuing to not make a choice, is to choose to BE nothing, and is itself a "wrong answer", worse than just guessing something, much like leaving a multiple question choice blank - at least a guess has a chance to be right - nothing doesn't.)

But I hope that if I can overcome them, and become a more complete person, I can become boyfriend material if I make a consistent everyday effort, and don't let discouragement (one of the main demons) get the better of me.
I look at myself in the mirror sometimes, and on a good day I think I'm not half-bad looking.
I have something to offer too - common interests, a listening ear, affection, curiosity, agreeability, a desire to do better (even if the fear keeps me from this sometimes).
I just need to get a decent profession, and also get good at something cool - do what I always should have done, and get the personality I should have gotten in high school and college, when again these demons took my mind on a detour.
Then hopefully I'll be a "type" - what someone is looking for.
But it should be within my reach. I'd like to think that I at least have enough potential to be a normal person, and live a normal life.

Why are you all so afraid of being virgins? Just look at this honeysuckle. It's like you're always thinking about it because it is pretty much the only thing you guys talk about on this site. No wonder women doesn't like you, you only think about it. Jesus ******* Christ, leave your homes, go do something, touch some grass etc.

I would say it's the fear of missing out, but not just on physicality, on connection - the whole experience.
At some point, doing those things you mentioned ("leave your homes, go do something, touch some grass") feels like empty distractions. You can only consume so much media, drink so much booze, go to so many places, before it all gets old. Like, this is as good as it's going to get...f*ck. You start to want something more - what everyone else is having.