Am I defective?

[Azimuth]

Hi, I am not sure if this is the right place to be posting this kind of thread, but the title says it all. I am not quite sure what females want anymore in a male, and I try to be everything that society says a young man should be. So really, my question is do the majority of females truly desire (excuse the terminology) ******** for boyfriends or close companions? And if no, then how important, truly, is outer apearance to a female - that is, how important to a female is the attractiveness of a young man? I try to demonstrate understanding and compassion for females. I am willing to listen to their problems for the majority of the time. I treat females with respect, young and old. I try to demonstrate confidence in myself while still maintaing a sense of humility. I keep myself up to date with facts and am considerably intelligent and well informed. I also enjoy everyday hobbies like video games or having a good time with friends. Despite all these aspects of my character and life, I always find myself in the same situation... single. The only remaining aspect about me as a person that I cannot change is my level of attractiveness. Am I just unattractive? This all falls back on the original question, how important is a male's attractiveness to a female? I feel it must be very imortant because if it were not, how then would I constantly find myself "friend-zoned" despite having all the qualities I mentioned earlier? I would think at least 4 in every 10-15 females would be interested in a guy with my type of qualities. I am deeply confused as to what it is I am doing wrong. I don't have a problem getting along with females, my problem is I am always friend-zoned right from the get go. It's very disheartening and causes me to nearly lose hope that I may one day find a female that can see me as more than "just another guy friend". This may be forward, but I have a facebook profile and am willing to share it with those interested; it would be a way for you females out there to have something to go off of as far as how attractive I am and whether or not that would play into me being friend zoned. Thanks for any responses!

 

[ardour]

When you appear like you care what they think, after a while that somehow becomes unappealing. ******** can often find it easier, not that women like being mistreated, but because those guys inadvertedly display other traits that are attractive like emotional independence. The chemistry disappears when women have the power, so men have to pretend not to care that much, but when of course they do that can be difficult.

Sucessful relationships seem to be where the woman wants in far more than he does. He just acts like he's goes along with it, he wants a girlfriend or wife but she could be interchangeable with any number of others. Women apparently prefer this to men who on occasion dare to reveal the slightest bit of weakness and/or humanity.

Or maybe I'm just bitter and you've been unlucky so far :shy:

 

[Tiina63]

For me personally a man's appearance is not important. If he is kind, treats me well, and hopefully shares somes of my interests, these are the important things.

 

[Barbaloot]

This has been gone over dozens and dozens of times on this forum. I'm pretty sick of the "women want ********" nonsense.

I can tell you your two biggest problems right now:
That you are fake. You are developing qualities and traits based on what you think women might like, and I'm sorry, but that is truly pitiful and it will never work for you.
And two,
It seems that you think that because of these false attributes you have attached to yourself, you are owed a girlfriend. When obviously, that's not the case. No one owes you anything because of how nice you think you are. You need to take a more critical look at yourself and your personality and then you will find the problem. I can assure you that it does not rest with all 'females' in the world.

The subject of whether a man's attractiveness determines if a woman will be interested in him has also been discussed to death on this forum. The answer? No, it's not a deciding factor for most women. What is? His (real) personality, his strength, character, ambition, work ethic, sense of compassion, intelligence.


Also, yes, second poster, you are bitter. A successful relationship requires both parties to want to be in the relationship at an equal level, hence it being a relationship and not just pity ******* a desperate woman.

 

[MadMonkè]

yes
yes you are.
and so is everybody else.

but regarding your concern... as tiina said, many girls dont consider looks to be as important as personality in a mate. while being very self concious about their own appearance...


So I want to ask a personal question... sorry if it sounds wrong...
do you think you are feminized?

let me be the first to say, I think I am...

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

I normally don't link other threads from this site on people's topics, but I feel this thread would actually help you.

http://www.alonelylife.com/thread-re-nice-guys

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks for you replies. Barbaloot, thanks. I will work on being my true self. Until then, I wont expect the world to hand me a female because I think I deserve one based on my false attributes. I appreciate the replies. Thanks.

 

[Barbaloot]

Sorry if I came across as harsh, but you'll be OK, dude. Just work on cultivating yourself and a relationship will happen in time. And in the meantime you'll be too busy to worry about not having one.

 

[kamya]

Good post barb :O *runs away*

 

[Azimuth]

Sorry if I came across as harsh, but you'll be OK, dude. Just work on cultivating yourself and a relationship will happen in time. And in the meantime you'll be too busy to worry about not having one.

Thanks. Ill take what you said and try to apply it. I appreciate the encouragement.

 

[LoneKiller]

You aren't defective. Different women like different things in a man, and vice versa.

 

[Azimuth]

Doubt the Rabit, I just read that thread. Totally gave me a new perspective. I cant tell you how important that thread was. I have a greater understanding and truly know what changes I need to make to myself. It's no longer about getting girls, it's about being a better me. If a woman happens to come into my life, then that's a bonus and I will treat her as she deserves - with respect. Thank you and barbaloot very much. You both have no idea how much you helped me!

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

No problem It's refreshing to see someone who's receptive to others' advice. Good luck, bro.

 

[ardour]

This has been gone over dozens and dozens of times on this forum. I'm pretty sick of the "women want ********" nonsense.

I can tell you your two biggest problems right now:
That you are fake. You are developing qualities and traits based on what you think women might like, and I'm sorry, but that is truly pitiful and it will never work for you.
And two,
It seems that you think that because of these false attributes you have attached to yourself, you are owed a girlfriend. When obviously, that's not the case. No one owes you anything because of how nice you think you are. You need to take a more critical look at yourself and your personality and then you will find the problem. I can assure you that it does not rest with all 'females' in the world.

The subject of whether a man's attractiveness determines if a woman will be interested in him has also been discussed to death on this forum. The answer? No, it's not a deciding factor for most women. What is? His (real) personality, his strength, character, ambition, work ethic, sense of compassion, intelligence.


Also, yes, second poster, you are bitter. A successful relationship requires both parties to want to be in the relationship at an equal level, hence it being a relationship and not just pity ******* a desperate woman.

You misread my post with that last sentence. A good number of women - and we all know this- dislike it when men admit they are as vulnerable and emotionally invested in the relationship as they are.

Also I never said that "women like ********", rather that ******** tend to have other personality traits that women do like, a couple of which you've mentioned, strength and ambition, although perhaps at the expense of compassion and character.

It sounds like you're setting a pretty high criteria for men in general. There isn't much room for the "average guy" here, with an average income and normal failings. The guys women want must be consistently perfect. Well good luck with your search.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

I fail to see how an average person is hopelessly incapable of having the traits mentioned in Barb's post.

The subject of whether a man's attractiveness determines if a woman will be interested in him has also been discussed to death on this forum. The answer? No, it's not a deciding factor for most women. What is? His (real) personality, his strength, character, ambition, work ethic, sense of compassion, intelligence.

These are character traits that every person can and SHOULD possess.

Also it sounds like you're setting a pretty high criteria for men in general. It's seems like there isn't much room for the "average guy" here, with an average income and normal failings. The guys women want must be consistently perfect. Well good luck with your search.

If that is "perfect" to you, then it seems that your standards are less than mediocre.

 

[ardour]

If that is "perfect" to you, then it seems that your standards are less than mediocre.

Really, well I wonder if her criteria would deem a plumber, fireman, teacher, mechanic, office worker etc. worthy of any relationship with the superior sex. I guess those guys aren't ambitous enough. They should work on themselves.

 

[Barbaloot]

If that is "perfect" to you, then it seems that your standards are less than mediocre.

Really, well I wonder if her criteria would deem a plumber, fireman, teacher, mechanic, office worker etc. worthy of any relationship with the superior sex. I guess those guys aren't ambitous enough. They should work on themselves.

Where in any of that did I specify a career type or income level? "Ambition" does not mean that he has a six figure income and a luxury house, "ambition" means that he wants something in his life, that he wants to be something, to do something, to go places, that he wants something more than to live in his mother's basement playing video games 24 hours a day or sponging off his parents.
I find it quite telling that while the OP has graciously accepted the error of his ways and has moved on, you returned to try to defend your original post. You clearly know nothing about women, but you also are clearly extremely bitter, even to the notion of "ambition."
The qualities I listed (and that many women on this forum have cited as qualities they look for in a man) are not very farfetched. They are just the basic qualities for being a decent, stable, independent adult. There are plenty of men in the world who possess those qualities, there are plenty of men on the forum who possess those qualities. None are outlandish. If you think they are, you need to take a good look at yourself and get to work. Bitterness for most women is a deal breaker.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

If that is "perfect" to you, then it seems that your standards are less than mediocre.

Really, well I wonder if her criteria would deem a plumber, fireman, teacher, mechanic, office worker etc. worthy of any relationship with the superior sex. I guess those guys aren't ambitous enough. They should work on themselves.

Really, because I'd really like you to point out at what point Barb said anything about plumbers, firemen, teachers, mechanics, or office workers being without ambition, strength, or intelligence. Tell me, do you have any idea what these people do for a living? The types of daily obstacles they must overcome and feats of extraordinary character many accomplish?

Firstly, Barb did not once point out any job profession and label it for its lack of ambition, strength, or work ethic. YOU did.

Without office workers, plumbers, firemen (of which I have friends), teachers, and mechanics (my mother is one), where do you reckon this world would be? A man can have ambition regardless of what his profession is. The entire point is that there are too many people who want relationships but are doing absolutely nothing with their life. That is simply unattractive in any gender in any circumstance.

Here's a thought, quit putting words in people's mouths.

 

[ardour]

If that is "perfect" to you, then it seems that your standards are less than mediocre.

Really, well I wonder if her criteria would deem a plumber, fireman, teacher, mechanic, office worker etc. worthy of any relationship with the superior sex. I guess those guys aren't ambitous enough. They should work on themselves.

Where in any of that did I specify a career type or income level? "Ambition" does not mean that he has a six figure income and a luxury house, "ambition" means that he wants something in his life, that he wants to be something, to do something, to go places, that he wants something more than to live in his mother's basement playing video games 24 hours a day or sponging off his parents.

Where in the OP topic is it even hinted that this is his lifestyle? Why would you assume that someone unsuccessful in relationships must be some basement dwelling man-child?

I find it quite telling that while the OP has graciously accepted the error of his ways and has moved on, you returned to try to defend your original post. You clearly know nothing about women, but you also are clearly extremely bitter, even to the notion of "ambition."

In other words "you clearly are a loser". I support myself on an average income FYI.
I concede that I have misinterpreted your post here; when people speak of ambition and goals it often relates to career status and income.

The qualities I listed (and that many women on this forum have cited as qualities they look for in a man) are not very farfetched. They are just the basic qualities for being a decent, stable, independent adult.

But they are presented in an arrogant manner, as if any shortcoming were intolerable. The implication ; men must "be all things" - confident and aggressive when she wants, kind and compassionate when she wants, out of the picture when not wanted. This is a modern female fantasy projected onto a manikin, not a realistic representation of a man as a human being with the inevitable messsy human failings, and I can imagine many decent enough "average joes" falling short.

I'm not suggesting women just shack up with any creep or hopeless loser but from what we know this is not the OP. ( women think he's good enough to be a friend, that has to mean something)

There are plenty of men in the world who possess those qualities, there are plenty of men on the forum who possess those qualities.

Yet here they are on the Lonely Life forums. If I were being cynical it seems like being merely decent just isn't enough.

 

[EveWasFramed]

A good number of women - and we all know this- dislike it when men admit they are as vulnerable and emotionally invested in the relationship as they are.

"We" don't know any such thing and that statement couldn't be more inaccurate. Seriously.

---

Men must "be all things" - confident and aggressive when she wants, kind and compassionate when she wants, out of the picture when not wanted. This is a modern female fantasy projected onto a manikin, not a real man with the inevitable messsy human failings, and I can imagine many decent "average joes" falling short.

Is it "women" expecting too much from you, or is it YOU expecting too much from you?