Incel - The Failure of the Modern Man

[michael2]

I am an incel.

And to put it bluntly, incels are failed men. 

How does a man fail?  He doesnt acquire everything that is necessary to be the backbone of a family.  Incels fail miserably at this.  Women, who they need as a wife and mother to their children, ignore them.  They cant find good paying jobs if they can find one at all.  And they never really mature socially as they spend most of their lives isolated, much of the time involuntarily.

With the push for more women in the workplace and less stay at home moms, a balance that existed for decades is now upside down.  Many higher paying jobs that would normally go to men now go to women.  What happened to the men who normally would have gotten those higher paying jobs?  They can't be stay at home moms.  Their only option is to become incels.  The women who now have these higher paying jobs are not interested in incels, as they riightfully see them as failed men.  The difference though is men with higher paying jobs are far more likely to get into a relationship with women who make much less money then them, because these women can be the mothers they need to start a family which helps them succeed as men.  An incel has no value as a man to a successful woman because he has nothing to offer her, except companionship.  The problem with that is in the modern world everything is treated like a financial transaction.   And if someone doesnt offer enough value back for what someone perceives their own value to be, they arent interested.  Clicking with someone's personality seems to be worth very little nowadays.

This is one of the major reasons why birthrates are plummeting in places like Japan.  The modern success story of the working woman has created a new class of failed men, incels.  Men who work poverty level jobs and look ugly to average, but with no hope of a woman ever taking them in, a hope only females in their situation have.

My family is proof of this.  I have 4 brothers and 5 sisters.  2/4 of the men are chronically unemployed.  Im poverty level working a $9/hr job and have struggled to find jobs, going long stretches unemployed.  So 3/4 of us men are incels.  I have one brother who makes good money.  And guess what.  Hes in a long term relationship because hes not seen as a failed man.  My sisters?  4/5 make over 50k a year and have never faced unemployment.  They're also single.  They cant find a man who is up to their standards.  It bothers them a bit but not too much because they are financially independent and get male validation and support from their orbitors and brothers.  My other sister?  She makes little money, like me.  Yet she is never single, because men who are above her in status and wealth see her as a possible mother for his family.

Incels are here to stay.  If you help pull one group up, your gonna push another one down.  Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Most of what you said is not very accurate....

No, I have no desire to say what or why because I really don't see the point in it. I also don't really see the point in this thread, given that it's nearly identical to your last.

 

[Joturbo]

I am an incel.

And to put it bluntly, incels are failed men. 

How does a man fail?  He doesnt acquire everything that is necessary to be the backbone of a family.  Incels fail miserably at this.  Women, who they need as a wife and mother to their children, ignore them.  They cant find good paying jobs if they can find one at all.  And they never really mature socially as they spend most of their lives isolated, much of the time involuntarily.

With the push for more women in the workplace and less stay at home moms, a balance that existed for decades is now upside down.  Many higher paying jobs that would normally go to men now go to women.  What happened to the men who normally would have gotten those higher paying jobs?  They can't be stay at home moms.  Their only option is to become incels.  The women who now have these higher paying jobs are not interested in incels, as they riightfully see them as failed men.  The difference though is men with higher paying jobs are far more likely to get into a relationship with women who make much less money then them, because these women can be the mothers they need to start a family which helps them succeed as men.  An incel has no value as a man to a successful woman because he has nothing to offer her, except companionship.  The problem with that is in the modern world everything is treated like a financial transaction.   And if someone doesnt offer enough value back for what someone perceives their own value to be, they arent interested.  Clicking with someone's personality seems to be worth very little nowadays.

This is one of the major reasons why birthrates are plummeting in places like Japan.  The modern success story of the working woman has created a new class of failed men, incels.  Men who work poverty level jobs and look ugly to average, but with no hope of a woman ever taking them in, a hope only females in their situation have.

My family is proof of this.  I have 4 brothers and 5 sisters.  2/4 of the men are chronically unemployed.  Im poverty level working a $9/hr job and have struggled to find jobs, going long stretches unemployed.  So 3/4 of us men are incels.  I have one brother who makes good money.  And guess what.  Hes in a long term relationship because hes not seen as a failed man.  My sisters?  4/5 make over 50k a year and have never faced unemployment.  They're also single.  They cant find a man who is up to their standards.  It bothers them a bit but not too much because they are financially independent and get male validation and support from their orbitors and brothers.  My other sister?  She makes little money, like me.  Yet she is never single, because men who are above her in status and wealth see her as a possible mother for his family.

Incels are here to stay.  If you help pull one group up, your gonna push another one down.  Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Yea lol ..the first para sounds just like me but I'm married
except i dont like the term failed....

I'm not really the backbone
My wife ignores me alot...
My job has always been a rubbish payer
Yea and everyone here knows i didnt mature socially and am isolated..ALOT

I suggest to try and enjoy your life because honestlly being single sounds very attractive to me and being married i feel single most of the time anyway because being married is not running through long grass holding hands..its very hard work and because of kids,mortgages,bills etc i've never had any money.Fill your boots i dunno go travelling ...buy a speedboat...have fun while you've got the ability and health too...sorry bit preachy.

This is my last post here for long time so ta ta 

 

[michael2]

Most of what you said is not very accurate....

No, I have no desire to say what or why because I really don't see the point in it.  I also don't really see the point in this thread, given that it's nearly identical to your last.

Its a theory I have with some personal and world evidence evidence to back it up.  Im just looking for why me and so many other men are in the positions we are now.  Trying to make sense of it, to help cope.

I am an incel.

And to put it bluntly, incels are failed men. 

How does a man fail?  He doesnt acquire everything that is necessary to be the backbone of a family.  Incels fail miserably at this.  Women, who they need as a wife and mother to their children, ignore them.  They cant find good paying jobs if they can find one at all.  And they never really mature socially as they spend most of their lives isolated, much of the time involuntarily.

With the push for more women in the workplace and less stay at home moms, a balance that existed for decades is now upside down.  Many higher paying jobs that would normally go to men now go to women.  What happened to the men who normally would have gotten those higher paying jobs?  They can't be stay at home moms.  Their only option is to become incels.  The women who now have these higher paying jobs are not interested in incels, as they riightfully see them as failed men.  The difference though is men with higher paying jobs are far more likely to get into a relationship with women who make much less money then them, because these women can be the mothers they need to start a family which helps them succeed as men.  An incel has no value as a man to a successful woman because he has nothing to offer her, except companionship.  The problem with that is in the modern world everything is treated like a financial transaction.   And if someone doesnt offer enough value back for what someone perceives their own value to be, they arent interested.  Clicking with someone's personality seems to be worth very little nowadays.

This is one of the major reasons why birthrates are plummeting in places like Japan.  The modern success story of the working woman has created a new class of failed men, incels.  Men who work poverty level jobs and look ugly to average, but with no hope of a woman ever taking them in, a hope only females in their situation have.

My family is proof of this.  I have 4 brothers and 5 sisters.  2/4 of the men are chronically unemployed.  Im poverty level working a $9/hr job and have struggled to find jobs, going long stretches unemployed.  So 3/4 of us men are incels.  I have one brother who makes good money.  And guess what.  Hes in a long term relationship because hes not seen as a failed man.  My sisters?  4/5 make over 50k a year and have never faced unemployment.  They're also single.  They cant find a man who is up to their standards.  It bothers them a bit but not too much because they are financially independent and get male validation and support from their orbitors and brothers.  My other sister?  She makes little money, like me.  Yet she is never single, because men who are above her in status and wealth see her as a possible mother for his family.

Incels are here to stay.  If you help pull one group up, your gonna push another one down.  Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Yea lol ..the first para sounds just like me but I'm married
except i dont like the term failed....

I'm not really the backbone
My wife ignores me alot...
My job has always been a rubbish payer
Yea and everyone here knows i didnt mature socially and am isolated..ALOT

I suggest to try and enjoy your life because honestlly being single sounds very attractive to me and being married i feel single most of the time anyway because being married is not running through long grass holding hands..its very hard work and because of kids,mortgages,bills etc i've never had any money.Fill your boots i dunno go travelling ...buy a speedboat...have fun while you've got the ability and health too...sorry bit preachy.

This is my last post here for long time so ta ta 

Having a wife validates a man.  Single women want validation from men as well.  The key difference though is that single women usually have the opportunity to marry or have a boyfriend if they so wish.  They usually have no shortage in men asking them out or showing them attention, they just havent found one yet they want to settle down with. Thats a big psychological lift.  For many incel men, that opportunity isnt even present.  And hasnt been for years,  if not their entire lives.

It seems you dont have a great marriage and your telling me being single is better.  Its like telling someone who walks 10 miles to work everyday not to make a big deal out of getting a car,  because the car he has has chronic problems.

I definitely dont think Im built for 'the single life'.  I know some men and women who at least appear to want to be single.  I'm not one.  I've always loved being around people.  Growing up I was probably the only kid who didnt care about having to share a bedroom.  I always prefer to do things with people instead of by myself.

But I'll take your advice.  I'll try to get back into one of my hobbies to help get my mind off this.

 

[ardour]

Unless you're arguing for a return to where women were relegated to the domestic sphere there's really no point to any this.

It's better to try and focus on the things that can be changed. Better mental health services for men, for example.

 

[Rainbows]

This gave me a good laugh.

 

[ardour]

nm

 

[DanL53]

This gave me a good laugh.

Me too.

Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades.

It isn't as funny though when one does a little research into incels.  

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455

With a history like this...imo to even identify oneself as an incel is a threat to humanity, and especially to women.

 

[LostintheBardo]

This gave me a good laugh.

Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades.

A misleading statement at best:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karina...uy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#391dc4822596

"The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” The latter gives the impression that a man and a woman standing next to each other doing the same job for the same number of hours get paid different salaries. That’s not at all the case. “Full time” officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That’s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35."

 

[DanL53]

This gave me a good laugh.

Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades.

A misleading statement at best:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karina...uy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#391dc4822596

"The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” The latter gives the impression that a man and a woman standing next to each other doing the same job for the same number of hours get paid different salaries. That’s not at all the case. “Full time” officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That’s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35."

The Gender Wage Gap in a per hour comparison is six to eight percent.  That is a Gender Wage Gap.  Look up statistics from this year...not two years ago.

Nowhere did I say 77 percent.  

I am not Hillary Clinton so please don't put her words in my mouth.  THAT, is misleading.  

Fact:  "Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades."  Six to eight percent different per hour.  Fact.  Standing side by side doing the same job.  Fact.  The excuses include men are more experienced, or more productive, can negotiate for better wages....they go on and on.  Debate could go on and on and we could include that men are more valued than women due to misogynistic prejudices.  

But rather than spin or speculate, let me just repeat, again, fact, "Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades."

Fact.

 

[LostintheBardo]

This gave me a good laugh.

Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades.

A misleading statement at best:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karina...uy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#391dc4822596

"The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” The latter gives the impression that a man and a woman standing next to each other doing the same job for the same number of hours get paid different salaries. That’s not at all the case. “Full time” officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That’s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35."

The Gender Wage Gap in a per hour comparison is six to eight percent.  That is a Gender Wage Gap.  Look up statistics from this year...not two years ago.

Nowhere did I say 77 percent.  

I am not Hillary Clinton so please don't put her words in my mouth.  THAT, is misleading.  

Fact:  "Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades."  Six to eight percent different per hour.  Fact.  Standing side by side doing the same job.  Fact.  The excuses include men are more experienced, or more productive, can negotiate for better wages....they go on and on.  Debate could go on and on and we could include that men are more valued than women due to misogynistic prejudices.  

But rather than spin or speculate, let me just repeat, again, fact, "Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades."

Fact.

1. You give no citations whatsoever and your original statement without context is misleading as can be,  women having a lower median average earnings is not the same thing as being paid less for the same work, telling someone to look it up isn't proof to the contrary.  

2. The fact you're accusing me of comparing you with Hillary Clinton when I've made no mention of her and didn't cite the comment in the article in relation to her is hysterical and frankly it's making you come across as unreasonable and dishonest. Nor did I accuse you of specifying a 77 percent figure, it's just one of the common ones put forward so the article made use of it. The point would stand regardless.

3. Even if there is some unexplained discrepancy, that doesn't automatically prove discrimination, there could be other variables involved.

---

http://www.aei.org/publication/2009...ndividual-choices-of-male-and-female-workers/

 

[DanL53]

This gave me a good laugh.

Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades.

A misleading statement at best:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karina...uy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#391dc4822596

"The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” The latter gives the impression that a man and a woman standing next to each other doing the same job for the same number of hours get paid different salaries. That’s not at all the case. “Full time” officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That’s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35."

The Gender Wage Gap in a per hour comparison is six to eight percent.  That is a Gender Wage Gap.  Look up statistics from this year...not two years ago.

Nowhere did I say 77 percent.  

I am not Hillary Clinton so please don't put her words in my mouth.  THAT, is misleading.  

Fact:  "Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades."  Six to eight percent different per hour.  Fact.  Standing side by side doing the same job.  Fact.  The excuses include men are more experienced, or more productive, can negotiate for better wages....they go on and on.  Debate could go on and on and we could include that men are more valued than women due to misogynistic prejudices.  

But rather than spin or speculate, let me just repeat, again, fact, "Considering women still get paid less for doing the same work as men, and that society has been two income households for decades."

Fact.

1. You give no citations whatsoever and your original statement without context is misleading as can be,  women having a lower median average earnings is not the same thing as being paid less for the same work, telling someone to look it up isn't proof to the contrary.  

2. The fact you're accusing me of comparing you with Hillary Clinton when I've made no mention of her and didn't cite the comment in the article in relation to her is hysterical and frankly it's making you come across as unreasonable and dishonest. Nor did I accuse you of specifying a 77 percent figure,  it's just one of the common ones put forward so the article made use of it. The point would stand regardless.  

3. Even if there is some unexplained discrepancy,  that doesn't automatically prove discrimination, there could be other variables involved.

---

http://www.aei.org/publication/2009...ndividual-choices-of-male-and-female-workers/

---

When two people disagree like we do the obvious and ultimate judge of who is being misleading is not the persons conversing, but the people reading.

And I am quite comfortable that with a simple search of Gender Wage Gap (even just use Wiki) anyone will find the six to eight percent figure I mentioned.  

And when you link an article from 2016, written about Hillary Clinton and her remarks, as a response to my one sentence?  Again, let others decide if you were putting her words in my mouth.

Yes, I already said we could discuss ad nauseam various reasons trying to explain the six to eight percent.  Some including gender bias, some claiming some improbable babble like men are ALWAYS more experienced than women.  None of it disproves that there IS a gender gap in wages between men and women.  In fact, all the explaining that is done is pretty much proof that some people, like you, feel the need to explain it away.

Again, go type in Gender Wage Gap and wiki.  That's all you need to find the six to eight percent.  I am not required to link what should be common knowledge in a discussion with someone who knows the FACTS.

But I see you've taken the low road, "your original statement without context is misleading as can be".  Gosh dang, sorry I knew something you didn't...that takes ten seconds to look up...and now you feel misled.  

Please, continue to pursue every angle to pretend there is no such thing as a Gender Wage Gap.  Doesn't matter to me.  It is not my job to wise you up.

 

[ardour]

And when you link an article from 2016, written about Hillary Clinton and her remarks, as a response to my one sentence?  Again, let others decide if you were putting her words in my mouth.

His response was to address the concept of the wage gap in general. But I sense you have a habit of resorting to personal attacks without much prompting going by the tone of the rest of that.

More time in the job and longer hours (men are still the primary breadwinners in the majority households), and not needing to take time off to have children  - these are all plausible enough explanations for the disparity.

It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender in US employment law, so what else do you propose be done about this - social spending already favours women, so what, tax men to top up women's wages?

 

[LostintheBardo]

The article literally mentions Clinton in the last three paragraphs and in relation to the broader topic at hand and yet you describe it as an article written about her. Again,  tells me everything I need to know. I linked the article for the quoted section about the median earnings which I'd sure will be obvious to anyone who reads this and isn't hellbent on misrepresenting me from the outset.

I'm also looking at the wiki page now and can't see your stat cited anywhere explicitly although it gives the adjusted figure of between 80-98% early on.  

Good to see you're still strawmanning me with your last paragraph but anyone who reads all of this with an honest approach can see I didn't say what you're accusing me of.  I guess I can look forward to avoiding you with whatever time I choose to spend on here.

 

[DanL53]

The article literally mentions Clinton in the last three paragraphs and in relation to the broader topic at hand and yet you describe it as an article written about her. Again,  tells me everything I need to know. I linked the article for the quoted section about the median earnings which I'd sure will be obvious to anyone who reads this and isn't hellbent on misrepresenting me from the outset.

I'm also looking at the wiki page now and can't see your stat cited anywhere explicitly although it gives the adjusted figure of between 80-98% early on.  

Good to see you're still strawmanning me with your last paragraph but anyone who reads all of this with an honest approach can see I didn't say what you're accusing me of.  I guess I can look forward to avoiding you with whatever time I choose to spend on here.

Don't worry too much.  I am not comfortable discussing the topic of Loneliness with Hate Groups like Incels.  So my time here is certainly nearing it's end. My goal now is actually to report this site in any manner I can find.

 

[ardour]

Ahh and there it is...

 

[LostintheBardo]

The article literally mentions Clinton in the last three paragraphs and in relation to the broader topic at hand and yet you describe it as an article written about her. Again,  tells me everything I need to know. I linked the article for the quoted section about the median earnings which I'd sure will be obvious to anyone who reads this and isn't hellbent on misrepresenting me from the outset.

I'm also looking at the wiki page now and can't see your stat cited anywhere explicitly although it gives the adjusted figure of between 80-98% early on.  

Good to see you're still strawmanning me with your last paragraph but anyone who reads all of this with an honest approach can see I didn't say what you're accusing me of.  I guess I can look forward to avoiding you with whatever time I choose to spend on here.

Don't worry too much.  I am not comfortable discussing the topic of Loneliness with Hate Groups like Incels.  So my time here is certainly nearing it's end.  My goal now is actually to report this site in any manner I can find.

I'm curious as to what it is makes you think I'm an Incel?

 

[DanL53]

Ahh and there it is...

Yep, there it is:

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/politics/a20078774/what-are-incels/

Proud of it?

---

The article literally mentions Clinton in the last three paragraphs and in relation to the broader topic at hand and yet you describe it as an article written about her. Again,  tells me everything I need to know. I linked the article for the quoted section about the median earnings which I'd sure will be obvious to anyone who reads this and isn't hellbent on misrepresenting me from the outset.

I'm also looking at the wiki page now and can't see your stat cited anywhere explicitly although it gives the adjusted figure of between 80-98% early on.  

Good to see you're still strawmanning me with your last paragraph but anyone who reads all of this with an honest approach can see I didn't say what you're accusing me of.  I guess I can look forward to avoiding you with whatever time I choose to spend on here.

Don't worry too much.  I am not comfortable discussing the topic of Loneliness with Hate Groups like Incels.  So my time here is certainly nearing it's end.  My goal now is actually to report this site in any manner I can find.

I'm curious as to what it is makes you think I'm an Incel?

I didn't say YOU were.  You've got this all too common thing going of hearing or reading something that isn't there....a friendly suggestion...very rare these days, if something confuses you, ask for a clarification, don't presume anything.

 

[ardour]

NM

 

[Quietude]

In reality, incels are just young guys yet to mature who feel trapped, usually having depression and possibly other issues such as anxiety. The result is to point a finger, blame and to identify with a group and label to reassures their own insecurities, providing a way to feel apart of something and claim victim among like minded individuals.

I have been single all my life due to depression, anxiety, being majorly underweight, not attractive etc... But I fixed all this and hope one day I will find someone nice. I'm not going to childishly sit there and frame an entire gender.

The incel perspective is very destructive and distorted. Everyone who is single and not getting any is involuntarily celibate, incels are not some special case, they just think they are. In reality they are just guys who are insecure and blame others instead of helping them self.