Incels - A Symptom of Sick Social System

[Hereward87]

The thing, in my lived experience, as an incel, is that once I got past my teens and twenties, being an incel started to bother me a lot less.
I suppose my Testosterone and hormones have decreased as I have gotten older and I have also become more philosophical about the whole Issue.
But when you are a man in your teens or twenties it is incredibly frustrating being an incel, once you get past this point you start to care a lot less about the whole Issue.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

I've always found the term "incel" to be quite interesting.

So it's "involuntarily celibate", which applies to me. Aside from a couple of one-night-stands years ago, I'm a social person who cannot get a girlfriend. I'm fully employed, renting, in-shape, hygenic, I have hobbies and I'm very comfortable socially. I am, by very definition of the term, involuntarily celibate.

Granted, I don't have the same hatred for women, or urge to post Tommy Shelby quotes on Facebook, but damn, I do feel like a section of society that's being overlooked. The people who do try to speak to disenfranchised males, the likes of Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate, get roasted for speaking to the ones nobody else is interested in addressing.

It's hard. I've tried talking to my friends about this, being really clear in my statements and how difficult it is when nobody wants you because you're ugly, but they're pretty people who don't understand. I've even reached out in this forum, only to have people blindly swing with "well it must be your anxiety!" or "it must be a confidence issue!", and they're just not listening to the words I'm saying. I don't feel any urge to be violent outwards, it is very much thoughts of violence inwards that occur far more.

 

[Unsigned]

Granted, I don't have the same hatred for women, or urge to post Tommy Shelby quotes on Facebook, but

I believe that would be the "incel movement", which is rather bizarre to me, but to each his own.
Merely taken as a term, "incel" would simply mean a guy who wants to be in a sexual relationship with a girl, but can't find a girl to comply.

only to have people blindly swing with "well it must be your anxiety!" or "it must be a confidence issue!", and they're just not listening to the words I'm saying.

I too have been hearing similar rubbish my whole life.
Also, the garbage about "I can't believe you don't have a girlfriend!".
Mostly from:

- Parents (they're both dead now). They simply cannot comprehend that they did a bad job, and their son is undesirable. This has NOTHING to do with any type of reality or analysis of the situation. Parents simply will always think they are great and did a fantastic job, and anything bad they hear from you will either fall on deaf ears or be met with some drivel about you being too negative. Anything to deflect from the fact that they did a lousy job raising you.

- Female Relatives and other females with whom you have a "platonic" relationship. Females (as it seems to me, anyway) are genetically wired to want everyone to think they are a "nice person". They will almost never say anything critical as they think it would be "mean".

- Escorts. Yeah...I have complained to regulars from time to time. For them, it's still the female "being nice" thing but in addition to that they are on the clock. They don't want to mess up their cash flow.

I know with 100% certainty when people tell me "I can't believe you don't have a girlfriend", they really mean they can't believe I haven't settled for an unattractive one.

 

[WillPower]

The thing, in my lived experience, as an incel, is that once I got past my teens and twenties, being an incel started to bother me a lot less.
I suppose my Testosterone and hormones have decreased as I have gotten older and I have also become more philosophical about the whole Issue.
But when you are a man in your teens or twenties it is incredibly frustrating being an incel, once you get past this point you start to care a lot less about the whole Issue.

Wow, really? I wish I could be like this. I find that it bothers me more the older I get. Cause it's like....will it ever end?

 

[Unsigned]

Wow, really? I wish I could be like this. I find that it bothers me more the older I get. Cause it's like....will it ever end?

Same. When I was young I didn't care but the older I get the more I am bothered and feel that I missed out.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Wow, really? I wish I could be like this. I find that it bothers me more the older I get. Cause it's like....will it ever end?

Same. When I was young I didn't care but the older I get the more I am bothered and feel that I missed out.

Same for me.

When I was a kid, I wasn't bothered, I figured that I was supposed to focus on school anyway, and no one knows who they are yet so those relationships don't mean much, probably won't last as people change and grow up, and I'm not really missing out on anything, and without money or a car or ideas, I wasn't really in a position where I could go on dates. And, I could just get into the things that I was a fan of, while I waited for it to "just happen" like it seemed to for everyone else. I thought, sure, the jerks get to date first, because I guess that's the way it works when people are immature. But I thought I would get my turn eventually - I just had to wait.

But the older I get, feeling like I'm missing out, "will it ever end?" starts to take over more and more.

Also, "what do I have to do to MAKE this end, I just want the answer so I can start working on it, I don't want to stay lost for the rest of my life".

I realized that I wasn't supposed to "just wait" like I thought, just wait for people to appreciate a warm, friendly personality instead of muscles, money, and the aggressive/competitive/dominant/arrogant/obnoxious personality. I wasted so much time sitting there, not changing myself, waiting for some woman to "like me for me" - in other words like me just because, for no reason - like I thought I was supposed to do. BIG mistake. What I was supposed to do all this time is build up my own muscles, money, personality, and get good at something that would make me cool, since I wasn't born cool like the a-holes were, because of their high default traits.

Nothing seems to take the edge off anymore either. I still like the things I used to like, but it's more of a side interest now and not enough to be a complete substitute for my real life anymore, or to make up for not living an at-least normal life.

 

[ardour]

Same for me.

When I was a kid, I wasn't bothered, I figured that I was supposed to focus on school anyway, and no one knows who they are yet so those relationships don't mean much, probably won't last as people change and grow up, and I'm not really missing out on anything, and without money or a car or ideas, I wasn't really in a position where I could go on dates. And, I could just get into the things that I was a fan of, while I waited for it to "just happen" like it seemed to for everyone else. I thought, sure, the jerks get to date first, because I guess that's the way it works when people are immature. But I thought I would get my turn eventually - I just had to wait.

But the older I get, feeling like I'm missing out, "will it ever end?" starts to take over more and more. I realized that I wasn't supposed to "just wait" like I thought, just wait for people to appreciate a warm, friendly personality instead of muscles, money, and the aggressive/competitive/dominant/arrogant/obnoxious personality. I wasted so much time sitting there, not changing myself, waiting for some woman to "like me for me" - in other words like me just because, for no reason - like I thought I was supposed to do. BIG mistake. What I was supposed to do all this time is build up my own muscles, money, personality, and get good at something that would make me cool, since I wasn't born cool like the a-holes were, because of their high default traits.

Nothing seems to take the edge off anymore either. I still like the things I used to like, but it's more of a side interest now and not enough to be a complete substitute for my real life anymore, or to make up for not living an at-least normal life.

Waiting was and is never a good idea. As you know, I did the same thing, lost myself in distractions that no longer work or only provide fleeting pleasure now.

As for waiting for women to like me for me.... what's to like? Seriously, what do we think the basis of sexual/romantic attraction is? A guy who wasted his youth coasting isn't going to suddenly become appealing, even if women my age are less preoccupied with height, muscles, status and so on.

 

[Lionel Richie 1983]

Nature doesn't care whether you "believe in it" or not. Evolution is a fact, and the fact is, nature intends there to be very few males, for males to compete and literally kill each other off for the privilege of breeding the mass of females.

Every benefit you enjoy in life, including the device you are reading this on, is the result of cut throat competition. Men may not realize they are inventing or working in order to kill off other man and gain access to all the *****, but that is the essential reality of ambition, and it benefits humanity as a whole. Suffering of males is the basis of everything good in life.

Not liking something doesn't make it untrue.

A strong case can be made that civilization itself, and all of it's benefits, would be impossible without some form of slavery, even up to today, with "wage slaves", factories in China and Amazon warehouses. The Athenians who invented the concept of democracy based their economy on slave labor. Whether harsh or not, the net effect is progress, material wealth, the leisure and capital to build infrastructure and conduct research.

Your posts often include naive wishes that "the government" do something to fix problems. Government is nothing but a gang of thugs, a racket. They extort from the productive, keep a large slice for themselves and distribute the rest to the unworthy.

Wrong There Is No Evidence For Evolution Also Not Everything Is A Battle Of Resources.

 

[okidoke]

ok but a pu*** is a pu***

Absolutely NO WAY

 

[Cherubino]

Absolutely NO WAY

an incel should be a pu*** worshiper There is no such thing as a bad kitty

 

[user 139760]

Isn't this thread done with yet? Oh fine.

Incels are a bunch of guys who got rejected by women and, instead of saying "**** happens" and moving on, decided to place blame on anything but themselves. While they do have some valid points, the way they go on dealing with said points is definitely not productive. Not all women are evil, just like not all men are evil, just like not all incels are evil.

At some point, they'll have to learn to grow up, I think.
Now, can't we just close this thread before it ends up into a slugfest by a visiting dignitary in 6-12 months?

 

[ardour]

Isn't this thread done with yet? Oh fine.

Incels are a bunch of guys who got rejected by women and, instead of saying "**** happens" and moving on, decided to place blame on anything but themselves. While they do have some valid points, the way they go on dealing with said points is definitely not productive. Not all women are evil, just like not all men are evil, just like not all incels are evil.

At some point, they'll have to learn to grow up, I think.
Now, can't we just close this thread before it ends up into a slugfest by a visiting dignitary in 6-12 months?

It isn't about anyone being evil. Male social groups are hierarchical. For every hierarchy there needs to be a group at the bottom. Some of those guys at the bottom will buy into silly or extreme rhetoric: But there will always be men at the bottom, good attitude, bad attitude; it makes no difference. Men who's confidence was smashed during adolescence. I suspect a lot of incels have been so badly affected by this they've never approached women.

 

[TheRealCallie]

It isn't about anyone being evil.

Except that the very definition of "incel" is to be hostile to the people they can't get or the people who have what they want. Evil may be too stronga word, but Richard isn't wrong.

 

[Unsigned]

Except that the very definition of "incel" is to be hostile to the people they can't get or the people who have what they want.

I had explained this in an earlier post on this thread.
I think people are confusing the term "incel", a portmanteau of INvoluntarily CELibate, with the very bizarre "incel movement".
Many guys are unwanted by females, and most of them harbor no ill will at all.

The people in the actual "incel movement" are the ones who group together on the internet, perhaps espouse violence, and make heroes out of people who have done very bad things, like Elliot Rodger. These guys actually are PROUD of being unwanted and try to ridicule and shame other "incels" who strive for female companionship through self improvement or other means. It's crazy.

 

[user 139760]

Many guys are unwanted by females, and most of them harbor no ill will at all.

I don't believe in that. Not really. I've seen too many times say, a gorgeous girl with an ugly man, or vice versa, to be able to believe in that.
I think those men gave up. At some point they got tired of trying and just started looking for someone, something, to blame. The violence or not depends more on the type of personality of the individual guy, but "involuntary"? That's the part I don't believe in.
I mean, I been single 15 years. I consider myself a very average person, good points, bad points, some attractive features, some not do much, some confidence, sometimes no confidence. Really just average.
Yet I know that if, right now, I wanted to get a girl in my bed, by sundown it would be done. If not, 100% assured by the end of the weekend. She might not be say, Claudia Schiffer level, but I could. I decided to be picky. I think somewhere along there lies the problem. Some guys have put it in their heads thst say, that hot cheerleader over there, can, SHOULD date or sleep with them and when she doesn't, not only blames her, but her "group", aka women, for that.
Closest example I can think of would be "my toaster doesn't work, I tried finding one in a high class luxury store but they didn't have one I could afford, so now I hate all toasters and am never buying one again"....it's the mentality behind it that's the problematic, I think. It's counter productive. In some more extreme cases, clearly harmful.
Those guys need to get talked out of this...I dunno, dark place? It's kind of a self turning circle. I understand rejection breeds resentment, but some of them take it too far.

 

[Unsigned]

Yet I know that if, right now, I wanted to get a girl in my bed, by sundown it would be done. If not, 100% assured by the end of the weekend. She might not be say, Claudia Schiffer level, but I could. I decided to be picky.

I completely agree with this and replied to another commenter earlier on this thread with my explanation:

https://www.alonelylife.com/threads/incels-a-symptom-of-sick-social-system.43964/post-1025659

 

[user 139760]

I completely agree with this and replied to another commenter earlier on this thread with my explanation:

https://www.alonelylife.com/threads/incels-a-symptom-of-sick-social-system.43964/post-1025659

Lol well...that's why I included my line about the thread should be closed lol. I think everything worth being said kind of already has been about this. At this point, we're just rehashing the same stuff.
I don't think incels are going anywhere anytime soon, anyway. It's old too, it's just that the name is new. We had a shooting at a uni called Polytechnique here in Montréal in the 80's when I was a kid, by a guy named Valérie Fabrikant. He'd be called an incel in this day and age.
I just call him a murderer. That's what he was.

 

[Forgottendanfan]

Why are we giving this nasty movement so much attention? To be noticed and be a point of conversation is exactly what they want.

 

[okidoke]

an incel should be a pu*** worshiper There is no such thing as a bad kitty

I don't know how old you are, but you obviously don't have enough life experience

 

[ardour]

Imagine being told you're a piece of **** and a loser all through your childhood and teens. Then at some point in young adulthood, you're expected to approach the opposite ***, prove your worth and deal with all the rejections, over and over again.

I'm sure many of them are pathetic, but the one thing they have in common with other men is years and years of bullying and exclusion. If you think it's easy to approach women after that then you're clueless and never went through it.