It's near hopeless if you're an average (or less) Iooking guy.

[michael2]

If you're average or less looking like me, I suggest coming to grips with the fact you just might be alone forever.  This isn't as bad of a fate as it may seem.  Single life has its perks.  Want to play the new videogame or binge watch the new TV show all Saturday?  How about go wherever you want whenever you want on a moment's notice.  You can do that single.  Of course I would much rather share my life with someone else, even at the cost of personal freedom.  

Anyways, average or less looking men, this is why I think you face near certain failure, unless you are willing to settle for someone even less average then you.

Hypergamy

Studies show women think 80% of men look below average.  That's right.  If you don't look "good" or have a 6 pack abs, your not even considered average.  Your demoted to below average.  And this isn't the top 20% of women being picky.  This is top to bottom.  That means an average looking woman tends to view another average looking man as below average, and thus, not desirable.

To put it simply, if 100 random single men were put on an island with 100 random single women, 80 women would fight over the top 20 men, leaving the other 80 guys alone to have the 20 least desirable women.

While this data is based on studies, I've seen evidence of it's reality in my life.  My brother is 25.  On a scale of 1-10, he is a 8 in terms of looks.  He is 6'1", 185 lbs, 6 pack abs, in great shape with strong arms and a nice face.  A great catch.  Women approach him randomly in public and GIVE their number to him unsolicited.  Sorry average looking guys, wish it was this easy for us.

So who is my brother dating now?  A 36 year old divorced mother of 2 who is a 5 in terms of looks.  She's even slightly overweight. Her desirability rating is far lower then my brother.  She's older, has kids, isn't in shape like him, and doesn't look as good.  Yet she's dating my brother.  This is hypergamy, a very real example of it.

Now, if she breaks up with my brother in the future, do you think she will give a guy who is a 5, same as her, in terms of looks, a chance?  No she thinks she deserves a 7 or 8.  This is why average guys are screwed.

Looking back at my crushes and women I've inquired of I never pursued someone who was better looking then me.  I consider myself to be a 5, and I've only really liked other women who were 5s or even 4s.  This was probably because subconsciously I knew what my reasonable limits were. It appears women, as a whole, think they deserve better then themselves.  Of course men fantasize about women who are 8s or 9s but I feel most men know they are unobtainable to them and are more then happy to settle with someone who is equal to them in terms of looks.

But that's the problem.  Women who are 5s tend to not give other men who are 5s attention.  The only time they do so seems to be out of desperation due to aging or needing a financial provider.  If a woman who is your equal in looks dates you, it's likely she feels that she is "settling" for you.

Right now I know someone who likes me.  I could ask her for her number and it would be good as mine.  The problem is, I'm a 5, and she's a 2.  She is over 100 lbs overweight with a below average face.  As an average looking man, who is not overweight, this is the type of options available to me.  Women who are 5s like me are pursuing men who are 7s or 8s.  

I get attention from women who are 2s or 3s, despite me being a 5.  I have never gotten serious attention from a woman who was a 5 or better.  Never. 

So my choice is to settle for a woman who is considerably less attractive then me, usually very obese and below average looking, or continue to be prepetually single.

So my question is for other average looking guys, has your experience been the same?  Do you find women who are less attractive then you are the only ones who give you a chance?

 

[kamya]

Hmm.

When I was in my early 20s I had a few short relationships with women that I would consider on the same level as myself. As the years go by it doesn't really matter too much whether the person is a 2 or a 10 things don't really tend to go anywhere. I'm not a super shallow person though so I don't really consider it settling if we are just basing things on looks alone.

I will say that on traits other than looks, in my opinion, I am the far better catch over "almost" all of the women that have rejected me in the past. Which, makes it all the more frustrating. =P

 

[michael2]

You have to think, or at least hope, that if we exist, then surely a female counterpart of us exists.

The problem is, the chances of us finding that person are exceedingly small.

If you aren't exceedingly handsome, 80% of women already aren't interested.  Of the 20% that's left only a portion are women who would have mutual attraction with you.  So 20% of 20% means your down to just 4% of the female population.

This is why I believe so many of us are perpetually single.  There's simply not that many women interested in us that we would like.  And it's not like I'm being super picky.  If a girl who was on par or somewhere near my looks wanted to date me tomorrow, I would agree.  When walking around I find most women in the age bracket I'm looking for [25-35] attractive enough to date.  So I'm hardly picky.  I don't have silly prerequisites like straight teeth, blue eyes, big breasts, tanned skin or whatever.

Not being shallow, I think we would all agree we need a certain level of physical attraction to date someone.  

The reason why I know women aren't interested is because, well, they don't show interest.  Women are just as capable and willing flirters as men.  Case in point my brother.  He has never had to ask a woman out, or flirt with one.  They all have approached him.  If your going through long stretches in your life with no female giving you attention, I'm convinced it's because you are average or below average looking.

Average or below average looking men have to be extremely proactive because the vast majority of women will not send them signals first, because they simply aren't interested.  If you don't aggressively pursue women as an average to below average man, you will remain single forever.

What does that mean?  It means throwing yourself at women who have shown no interest in you, getting rejected numerous times, and being called a ***** if you aren't willing to throw yourself at women's feet in the hope they will give you a chance.

So you can throw yourself at women and call that act of desperation bravery, or hope you bump into the 4% that doesn't subscribe to all that crap and has a mutual physical attraction to you.

What a nightmare.

 

[ardour]

So who is my brother dating now?  A 36 year old divorced mother of 2 who is a 5 in terms of looks.  She's even slightly overweight. Her desirability rating is far lower then my brother.  She's older, has kids, isn't in shape like him, and doesn't look as good.  Yet she's dating my brother.  This is hypergamy, a very real example of it.

It is possible that they have a connection based on more than looks or what society deems desirable.

 

[kamya]

So who is my brother dating now?  A 36 year old divorced mother of 2 who is a 5 in terms of looks.  She's even slightly overweight. Her desirability rating is far lower then my brother.  She's older, has kids, isn't in shape like him, and doesn't look as good.  Yet she's dating my brother.  This is hypergamy, a very real example of it.

It is possible that they have a connection based on more than looks or what society deems desirable.

On his brothers side yes. I think that's the point he's trying to make. Very rarely would the reverse gender scenario happen unless there is either a lot of money or a lot of social status in play.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Yes, it's hopeless, you're all doomed to fail.  Women are horrible, shallow *******.  Just give up now.....

Seriously??? 
I keep seeing these threads and they're all basically the same.  Do you ever think that there may be more to life and love and relationships than looks?  Screw your studies, they mean nothing.  Stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and what kind of woman or man they are getting and worry about yourself.  Go out and look for someone you can be compatible with, not some damn "trophy wife."

 

[kamya]

Go out and look for someone you can be compatible with, not some damn "trophy wife."

I'm pretty sure that's what most of us have been attempting to accomplish from the beginning.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Go out and look for someone you can be compatible with, not some damn "trophy wife."

I'm pretty sure that's what most of us have been attempting to accomplish from the beginning.

Really?  Because it seems to me most of these posts are about how men can only get ugly women....sorry, BELOW AVERAGE....but women get to be picky as ****....
That's mostly all I see is how you all focus on LOOKS.  Looks aren't everything and even if they were, unless you plan to get a **** ton of plastic surgery, looks rarely last anyway.

Focus on who a person IS, not what they look like.

 

[ardour]

So who is my brother dating now?  A 36 year old divorced mother of 2 who is a 5 in terms of looks.  She's even slightly overweight. Her desirability rating is far lower then my brother.  She's older, has kids, isn't in shape like him, and doesn't look as good.  Yet she's dating my brother.  This is hypergamy, a very real example of it.

It is possible that they have a connection based on more than looks or what society deems desirable.

On his brothers side yes. I think that's the point he's trying to make. Very rarely would the reverse gender scenario happen unless there is either a lot of money or a lot of social status in play.

Way I read it was that he thinks this is the best his brother could do.

 

[Sci-Fi]

Is this based on that okaystupid study because if it is then I'm sorry to inform you but that is a very one sided biased study. I wouldn't believe anything that comes from a dating website. One of the local radio stations here talked about a study that was done and most women said they would rather have a man who made them laugh over looks and wealth. He asked listeners to call in and wanted men's opinions too and 100% of people said humour. So there you go.

 

[user 139760]

LOL I consider myself average looking, so far it hasn't been my experience.

As corny or dumb as it might seem, I think all of that revolves around a totally random and hasardous act of fate.
Say it's true. If 80% of women fight over 20% of men, that's an 80% of women I probably won't want to date, because they demonstrate to me they're shallow as hell.

On that note, while everyone's fighting, I'll go and talk to the 20% of women sitting on their rocks. They might not look like Claudia Schiffer, but as is your brother's case, it's obvious they don't have to in order for him to be happy. At least, that's assuming he's happy.
I've dated, if we go stricly by a "looks rating" (I hate that, impersonal as hell, but whatever) women who were a 9.89 out of ten in terms of looks, and others who rated barely a 4. The mother of my children would probably fall under that number. Yet I loved her. And I still find her attractive in some ways, even if she doesn't really take care of herself, because it's part of a whole. Some of the 9's were rather ugly...

All that to say that yes, study might be true. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to imagine reality being somewhere along those lines. To me it's not a sign that men are stuck being perpetually single. It's an example of the old adage; "good people are hard to find".

 

[TheRealCallie]

LOL I consider myself average looking

NO GIRL FOR YOU!  :club:

I don't think I've seriously dated any "hot" guys.  I've had "dates" with a few, but never any type of relationship that lasted beyond one or two dates.    And no, I'm not ugly or below average, according to every compliment I've ever gotten from guys (and girls), whether they actually know me or if they are complete strangers.  I would say about 80% of the "hot" guys that contacted me or approached me only wanted to **** me.

 

[user 139760]

NO GIRL FOR YOU!  :club:

LOL Considering I've been single over 10 years and am quite comfortable right now, I'm not sure if it's punishment or not ;-)
I'm waiting for "the one". I expect she'll make herself known when the time comes and sadly for her, she'll have to make an effort to let me know, I'm probably as dumb as a doorknob now and rusty from inexperience. But I've more or less outgrown the NEED to have someone in my life. If someone does come in it'll be by choice, not by need and she'll have to understand my 50-50 rule, or move on.
From what I see of people around me, however, I seem to be an exception rather than a rule, so I can't necessarily be taken as a baseline for what "men" are.

So no, no girl for me ;-)

And my oldest daughter says I'm a more than average looking dad, so that's all the compliment I'll ever need ;-)

 

[Xpendable]

"Screw your studies"
Callie. 2018.

 

[user 115627]

Is this based on that okaystupid study because if it is then I'm sorry to inform you but that is a very one sided biased study.  I wouldn't believe anything that comes from a dating website.  One of the local radio stations here talked about a study that was done and most women said they would rather have a man who made them laugh over looks and wealth.  He asked listeners to call in and wanted men's opinions too and 100% of people said humour.   So there you go.

Whether you believe the following is true or not, the common retort I hear to that statement is: Watch what people do, not what they say they do. Especially when they think no one is looking...

 

[kamya]

Go out and look for someone you can be compatible with, not some damn "trophy wife."

I'm pretty sure that's what most of us have been attempting to accomplish from the beginning.

Focus on who a person IS, not what they look like.

Again... been doing that since the beginning. Unattractive people aren't automatically beautiful on the inside. =p Besides, would you really want to date someone you aren't at all attracted to?

It's not my standards that are out of line or unrealistic. Which is the whole point of the OP's post. 

Preach your message to that 80% of women if you're gonna preach it to anyone. The men feeling left out aren't the ones needing to be told this.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Again... been doing that since the beginning. Unattractive people aren't automatically beautiful on the inside. =p Besides, would you really want to date someone you aren't at all attracted to?

It's not my standards that are out of line or unrealistic. Which is the whole point of the OP's post. 

Preach your message to that 80% of women if you're gonna preach it to anyone. The men feeling left out aren't the ones needing to be told this.

I don't think she means that they automatically are. I'm not sure what to say to the rest of this comment, because you're someone who's absolutely stuck on one theory and you're sticking to it. Which is fine, it's your life, your views. Believe what you want, but it's only got you sounding like you're mad at the world. Attraction doesn't have to happen all at once, straight away. It can be a gradual thing if one lets it grow instead of wanting instant gratification of finding a perfect person.

 

[user 139760]

Preach your message to that 80% of women if you're gonna preach it to anyone. The men feeling left out aren't the ones needing to be told this.

Also from the OP's post, pretty obvious to me those 80% of women won't give two flying arses whatever gets preached to them. Still assuming that article to reflect reality.
So why focus on them in the first place?
Because they're cuter? They're probably also shallower, more vain and generally more ****** to be around.
Isn't that a form of auto-flagellation?

 

[MisterLonely]

There is nothing wrong with wanting a person on your intellectual level, on your social level, on your income level, on your political level and your sports/outgoing level, why the **** do we all still have to pretend that wanting someone that's on your physical level is the same as being shallow?

No where does the OP state he want's to date hot girls, he even goes as far as to say he finds most women in his chosen age range to be sufficiently attractive and desirable. Personally I don't think looks matter, I've had crushes on women I never even saw, be it IRL or in a picture, but if the only factor to go by is looks (in for instance a tinder scenario) I sure as hell will pick women I find attractive, as in on my level.

I think it's only natural to want "the best" for yourself.

 

[user 139760]

There is nothing wrong with wanting a person on your intellectual level, on your social level, on your income level, on your political level and your sports/outgoing level, why the **** do we all still have to pretend that wanting someone that's on your physical level is the same as being shallow?

No where does the OP state he want's to date hot girls, he even goes as far as to say he finds most women in his chosen age range to be sufficiently attractive and desirable. Personally I don't think looks matter, I've had crushes on women I never even saw, be it IRL or in a picture, but if the only factor to go by is looks (in for instance a tinder scenario) I sure as hell will pick women I find attractive, as in on my level.

I think it's only natural to want "the best" for yourself.

That's not the assumption I posited, I didn't imply that men OR women were vain or shallow for wanting someone who's their equal in terms of beauty; I posited that, as the example stated, if 80% of women fight over only 20% of men and refuse to even look at the other 80% of men, why bother with them in the first place? Wouldn't that imply that, in their perception, they feel 80% of the remaining men are below their level and not worth their attention? Why even be bothered by the fact you're not granted attention by them? Seems a waste of effort to even try to.
That's my definition of shallow.
Besides which, beauty or attractiveness being such a subjective topic in the first place, it's a rather vague topic. I can see a 9 where you see a 2 and vice-versa. Which leads to my own druthers on those types of articles or studies. It's not beauty as such, but the perception of it, that's most of the time the issue.