Men - do you feel yourself becoming an 'incel'?

[Unsigned]

Unsigned is not a celebrity and doesn't have a world wide fan base, so it's a different situation.

OK, this thread is going way off course, so I'll try to clarify.
- I only responded about my very rare experiences in cold approaching girls because the other guy seemed to imply I was "bullshirting" him.
- I also only did it the times I was drinking with a bunch of guys and they urged me to do it. I don't do this on my own. In fact, I never even "flirt". It's just not something I do.
- Yes, I know I am not a celebrity. That's why I have always stuck to pay for play, even when I was young, to be with the type of girls I find attractive. I am nothing if not self aware.
- Yes, I am on Seeking (the Sugar Daddy site). I've had an account there for years. But TBH, it's too much work. Even there you really have to talk the girls up. I am not a charmer. Escort services are much easier for someone like me. It's just that they don't help at all in the loneliness department.

 

[ardour]

Brad Pitt is famous, he has more options, simply because the entire world knows who he is. People flock to celebrities. Unsigned is not a celebrity and doesn't have a world wide fan base, so it's a different situation.

That's one reason people find it "gross," but definitely not the only one, there are so many factors involved in a situation like that. And there's a reason I put gross in quotations.

Plenty would have a problem a man his age on paper, certainly, but how people perceive age (subconsciously) is still largely to do with appearances. If this 58 year old approached younger women I doubt he'd be getting ick reactions even if they didn't want to go there.

At least, this is what I tell myself Chuando Tan is my cope....

 

[TropicalStarfish]

OK, this thread is going way off course, so I'll try to clarify.
- I only responded about my very rare experiences in cold approaching girls because the other guy seemed to imply I was "bullshirting" him.

I suddenly desire to have a T-Shirt with a bull on it, now. And on the odd chance anyone compliments me on my shirt, I can say: "Thnx, I'm glad you like my bullshirt!"



...and the fuc*in' market is cornered already, once again... Back to the imaginary drawing board...

 

[abbynormal]

have been one most of my life. nothing new.

 

[MrLonely86]

Women in my country have unreal criterias (?) ..... And since I started to hang around with people from other countries online ( girls included there ) , every 4th girl fell in love with me ... XD

So to conclude, there are 4 billion women on this planet , so no , you are not incel, you are just born in wrong country.

 

[ihopeitworks]

Yeah, I'm an incel by their definition. Although I don't buy the blackpill stuff, the 80/20 rule, the chad only theory, etc.
I'm a 25 yo friendless, virgin who never went on a date and never even asked a girl out

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Yeah, I'm an incel by their definition. Although I don't buy the blackpill stuff, the 80/20 rule, the chad only theory, etc.
I'm a 25 yo friendless, virgin who never went on a date and never even asked a girl out

If you don't mind me asking, what is it that's kept you from asking a girl out, or even making friends, at your age?

 

[ihopeitworks]

If you don't mind me asking, what is it that's kept you from asking a girl out, or even making friends, at your age?

I am a highly inhibited person, I have like an influence over me that prevents me from talking. And other than that I am pretty ******* boring and have a dead personality.
To give you an idea, I onced downloaded tinder, I had a few matches. But I just couldn't keep a conversation going, let alone an interesting one (and this was over chat so I wasn't as inhibited). So, I never got to ask a girl out and no one stucks arounds me to form a friendship.
Anyway, not having friends doesn't weight on me too much, not having a girlfriend does though, a lot.

 

[TheSkaFish]

One thing that I've noticed that's always hurt me in the relationship department, is that I realize that I'm not what a man is supposed to be.

Have you ever noticed that men are especially pushed into either working with math, technology, or tools?
All of that is seen as "man stuff".
It's taken me a while to realize that all of the stuff that's seen as "man stuff", is really "skills stuff". And I've never felt like a skills person. There's never been any skill that's ever seemed right for me, like a natural fit for me, like that's the kind of person I am. I HATE being unskilled, and the frustration, humiliation, powerlessness, and low status that are consequences of it. I DO NOT want to be that kind of person. But I feel like I have no natural strengths either. I feel like I'm not suited to anything. It's been the bane of my existence.

Those are things that men are expected to be good at, and interested in. And I'm just not.
I'm not particularly good at any of those things - in fact math was my weakest subject in school growing up.
I've also tried various things with tech and tools, and it's the same, I have no particular knack for them, like a man is supposed to have instinctively.
Plus I find all that practical stuff to be bone-dry, dense, and dull - I can't get into it, I'm not naturally curious for more knowledge about it, I don't have any natural excitement about it. I feel very "meh" about it instead - indifferent. I'm sure not being naturally good at it is at least partially the problem there, but I just don't have the natural interest/excitement that a lot of guys seem to have naturally, for that kind of stuff. Some guys just LOVE learning computer languages, or learning how to use heavy machinery. They're honestly curious and excited about it. And that's just not me.

But those are what is rewarded in this world (apart from pro sports and A-list entertainment). And not having them makes it hard to play the protector/provider male gender role, and to be impressive/interesting/exciting/entertaining - making it hard to be a man, basically. I've had a hard time being a man because I'm neither good at nor interested in the things that men are supposed to be good at and interested in. It not only hurts the way others see me, but my own confidence and self-esteem as well.

 

[ringwood]

One thing that I've noticed that's always hurt me in the relationship department, is that I realize that I'm not what a man is supposed to be.

Have you ever noticed that men are especially pushed into either working with math, technology, or tools?
All of that is seen as "man stuff".
It's taken me a while to realize that all of the stuff that's seen as "man stuff", is really "skills stuff". And I've never felt like a skills person. There's never been any skill that's ever seemed right for me, like a natural fit for me, like that's the kind of person I am. I HATE being unskilled, and the frustration, humiliation, powerlessness, and low status that are consequences of it. I DO NOT want to be that kind of person. But I feel like I have no natural strengths either. I feel like I'm not suited to anything. It's been the bane of my existence.

Those are things that men are expected to be good at, and interested in. And I'm just not.
I'm not particularly good at any of those things - in fact math was my weakest subject in school growing up.
I've also tried various things with tech and tools, and it's the same, I have no particular knack for them, like a man is supposed to have instinctively.
Plus I find all that practical stuff to be bone-dry, dense, and dull - I can't get into it, I'm not naturally curious for more knowledge about it, I don't have any natural excitement about it. I feel very "meh" about it instead - indifferent. I'm sure not being naturally good at it is at least partially the problem there, but I just don't have the natural interest/excitement that a lot of guys seem to have naturally, for that kind of stuff. Some guys just LOVE learning computer languages, or learning how to use heavy machinery. They're honestly curious and excited about it. And that's just not me.

But those are what is rewarded in this world (apart from pro sports and A-list entertainment). And not having them makes it hard to play the protector/provider male gender role, and to be impressive/interesting/exciting/entertaining - making it hard to be a man, basically. I've had a hard time being a man because I'm neither good at nor interested in the things that men are supposed to be good at and interested in. It not only hurts the way others see me, but my own confidence and self-esteem as well.

I’m going to preface this by saying that I honestly, truly think you are a fantastic guy! You are funny and imaginative and creative, you’ve got a wonderful playful sense of humour, you’re kind and thoughtful, you’re compassionate, you’re a deep thinker, etc, etc. In short, you have so, so many qualities that I and many others value in people.

Maybe that’s why it drives me crazy when you constantly devalue yourself by this line of thinking. So you’re not into tools, technology, math - typical guy stuff - so ******* what?! And who the hell decides what’s typical? Society? I know you have no real love for society as it is, so why do you care so much about torturing yourself with this constant mindset? For the love of all that’s holy, PLEASE try be yourself for once. Quit worrying about who you should be and focus on who you are. What do you love to do? What gets you excited? What are you passionate about? What makes a person interesting/exciting/entertaining/impressive to another is completely individual. It’s more about how you approach life, your passion for whatever you do, that makes another person appealing.

Again, I’m going to reiterate that you are a great guy, Ska! Honestly. I just hate seeing you on this line of thinking, it bothers me so much because I think very highly of you. I wish you would think the same of yourself.

 

[user 135671]

One thing that I've noticed that's always hurt me in the relationship department, is that I realize that I'm not what a man is supposed to be.

Have you ever noticed that men are especially pushed into either working with math, technology, or tools?
All of that is seen as "man stuff".
It's taken me a while to realize that all of the stuff that's seen as "man stuff", is really "skills stuff". And I've never felt like a skills person. There's never been any skill that's ever seemed right for me, like a natural fit for me, like that's the kind of person I am. I HATE being unskilled, and the frustration, humiliation, powerlessness, and low status that are consequences of it. I DO NOT want to be that kind of person. But I feel like I have no natural strengths either. I feel like I'm not suited to anything. It's been the bane of my existence.

Those are things that men are expected to be good at, and interested in. And I'm just not.
I'm not particularly good at any of those things - in fact math was my weakest subject in school growing up.
I've also tried various things with tech and tools, and it's the same, I have no particular knack for them, like a man is supposed to have instinctively.
Plus I find all that practical stuff to be bone-dry, dense, and dull - I can't get into it, I'm not naturally curious for more knowledge about it, I don't have any natural excitement about it. I feel very "meh" about it instead - indifferent. I'm sure not being naturally good at it is at least partially the problem there, but I just don't have the natural interest/excitement that a lot of guys seem to have naturally, for that kind of stuff. Some guys just LOVE learning computer languages, or learning how to use heavy machinery. They're honestly curious and excited about it. And that's just not me.

But those are what is rewarded in this world (apart from pro sports and A-list entertainment). And not having them makes it hard to play the protector/provider male gender role, and to be impressive/interesting/exciting/entertaining - making it hard to be a man, basically. I've had a hard time being a man because I'm neither good at nor interested in the things that men are supposed to be good at and interested in. It not only hurts the way others see me, but my own confidence and self-esteem as well.

Ska like Ringwood sez (she's on a roll today) you have so much going for you. You don't have to be 'what a man is supposed to be'. To be attractive means to be yourself. You don't need to be accepted by others, you need to accept yourself. Do the universe a favour, don't hide your magic.

 

[August Campbell]

@TheSkaFish
Yes, I agree with those other posters about SkaFish. It has to do with that ancient adage,"To thine own self be true." That is, don't worry about pleasing other people by changing what you are. That also means don't worry about what society in general says about what a person should be.
You bemoan being Unskilled but there are lots of Unskilled men who are happy. Many would be happy and contented by being what you already are. "To thine own self be true" means to be yourself. As the other posters said, you are already good enough as is.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

SSRI medication can lead to irritability, hostility, anger, and so forth as well: as in, beyond the range and bounds of what is normal for said person, prior to taking them.

ssristories.com has been archived it seems..

 

[Unsigned]

SSRI medication can lead to irritability, hostility, anger, and so forth as well: as in, beyond the range and bounds of what is normal for said person, prior to taking them.

ssristories.com has been archived it seems..

The "incel" thing is much worse than medication, IMO.
It's the idea that you, as a guy, did everything right.
You listened to your parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, teachers, priests, nuns, etc...
You were a "nice boy".
Studious. Intelligent. Courteous. Polite. Successful.
And it...DIDN'T MATTER!!!
You DID NOT get your promised slice of the American Dream.
And you never will.

It sucks.
You kept your end of the bargain, but they did not keep theirs.
I feel your pain.
I AM your pain.
F*** this life.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

The "incel" thing is much worse than medication, IMO.
It's the idea that you, as a guy, did everything right.
You listened to your parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, teachers, priests, nuns, etc...
You were a "nice boy".
Studious. Intelligent. Courteous. Polite. Successful.
And it...DIDN'T MATTER!!!
You DID NOT get your promised slice of the American Dream.
And you never will.

It sucks.
You kept your end of the bargain, but they did not keep theirs.
I feel your pain.
I AM your pain.
F*** this life.

Did you look at any of the stories on that website I linked to?

It's actually 100% relevant to exactly what you are saying.

When some one feels like that, and they are put on a drug like Prozac, it can actually inflame the situation to absolutely horrific degrees.

We live in a society where, men need to cry. Men need the nurturing touch of a sympathetic woman. Men need understanding. (Everyone needs to be understood, felt, heard, seen, etc..) And instead, they are often marginalized, outcast, dejected, treated with supremely sublime cruelty, and all other sorts of wacky ******** this society will subject men to.

Right now, the popular trend is, 'get good.' Youtube is pushing the idea that men need to hit the gym, buff up, level-up, etc.. etc.. But it's the same old message society has been pushing on us for years. For women it's often the impossible beauty standard, etc.. etc..

And what do people do when they find all that ******** is hype? That once you are earning six figures, can curl 50lbs, and you are still single, still emotionally dead inside, and nothing matters? Often a lot of people will see a Psychologist/Psychiatrist, often at the urging of others, who are honestly, too busy to really give a real f*ck, if they were even capable of understanding at all.

And sometimes, sometimes, these pills can, and do help, but often times, they only make things worse, and drastically worse at that; not to mention the sadistic gross incompetence of some of these so called, 'professionals,' who are limited in their own capacity either by the stipulations and status quo of their trade, their actual interest (or complete lack there-of) in what _they_ do for a living, or simply by not being very good at what they do, or not being a good fit for a particular person.

So, I'm not negating what you are saying. I'm saying, take exactly what you are saying, and add some SSRI's into the mix, at the wrong time, for the wrong person, in the wrong circumstance, and it could really f*ck things up.

I mean look at our modern society. Really look around. Look at how pervasive psychological lingo is (It's part of the common-person's every-day vernacular now (that's all kinds of f*cked up)). How pervasive the psychiatric drug use is. How common the psychology and counseling is. And then come to terms with the fact that the modern world we live in, is probably the most f*cked up it's been since the national socialists in Germany were taking amphetamines.

So, I'm just putting two and two together.

Trying to make an addition, not a point of argument.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

One thing that I've noticed that's always hurt me in the relationship department, is that I realize that I'm not what a man is supposed to be.

You are a man dude. That's why all the pain and confusion.

Good men are a rarity. Great men even more rare. Just being a decent human being is quite difficult for most people.

Some by virtue fall, others by sin, rise.

 

[user 191088]

The "incel" thing is much worse than medication, IMO.
It's the idea that you, as a guy, did everything right.
You listened to your parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, teachers, priests, nuns, etc...
You were a "nice boy".
Studious. Intelligent. Courteous. Polite. Successful.
And it...DIDN'T MATTER!!!
You DID NOT get your promised slice of the American Dream.
And you never will.

It sucks.
You kept your end of the bargain, but they did not keep theirs.
I feel your pain.
I AM your pain.
F*** this life.

I feel both of your pains. I've never had a girlfriend, though I suppose I'm fortunate enough that I have many interests to compensate for the lack of love and care that you'd get out of a genuine relationship.

Ultimately, though, I've come to believe that it doesn't matter, anyway. We as human beings are very much self-centered, always approaching things from the point of view of prior interests. Our culture doesn't help in this regard, either. Much to the contrary... would you really believe that most relationships are as sweet as the people involved would like us to think it is? I've no doubt that a considerable portion of relationships - if not most of them - are based on what could be fairly reasonably described (in terms that remind us of economic relations) as mutual exploitation of one sort or another, without even the pretense that it's something more than just that... Note that the pretense is very important, it's what makes the play of life worthy of our acting, of our playing our parts. Without it we are just barbarians, no more than animals.

Yes, because, although we are self-centered and primarily interested in our own well-being as individuals, if we don't pretend that we aren't, there's no culture, there's humanity. Presidents, governors and congressmen must all pretend to hold the interests of the people in the highest regard, just as a physician must pretend to be primarily interested in his patient's well-being and so on. The moral of the story is that these are sad times to live in, but I have found solace in contemplation and philosophy.

 

[ardour]

Yes some men miss out because they're too shy, too 'dull' for many women these days, but a man's ability to provide a comfortable life for his partner, i.e. earn a decent living and buy house is part of what makes him 'eligible.' The average 20 something male is struggling and older generations partly to blame for that.

There's a great Ted Talk on this from Scott Galloway.



If young men today had the same earning potential and ability to own assets they had in the 90s you would see a rapid decline in red pill/incel/4chan type rhetoric.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

One thing that I've noticed that's always hurt me in the relationship department, is that I realize that I'm not what a man is supposed to be.

Have you ever noticed that men are especially pushed into either working with math, technology, or tools?
All of that is seen as "man stuff".
It's taken me a while to realize that all of the stuff that's seen as "man stuff", is really "skills stuff". And I've never felt like a skills person. There's never been any skill that's ever seemed right for me, like a natural fit for me, like that's the kind of person I am. I HATE being unskilled, and the frustration, humiliation, powerlessness, and low status that are consequences of it. I DO NOT want to be that kind of person. But I feel like I have no natural strengths either. I feel like I'm not suited to anything. It's been the bane of my existence.

Those are things that men are expected to be good at, and interested in. And I'm just not.
I'm not particularly good at any of those things - in fact math was my weakest subject in school growing up.
I've also tried various things with tech and tools, and it's the same, I have no particular knack for them, like a man is supposed to have instinctively.
Plus I find all that practical stuff to be bone-dry, dense, and dull - I can't get into it, I'm not naturally curious for more knowledge about it, I don't have any natural excitement about it. I feel very "meh" about it instead - indifferent. I'm sure not being naturally good at it is at least partially the problem there, but I just don't have the natural interest/excitement that a lot of guys seem to have naturally, for that kind of stuff. Some guys just LOVE learning computer languages, or learning how to use heavy machinery. They're honestly curious and excited about it. And that's just not me.

But those are what is rewarded in this world (apart from pro sports and A-list entertainment). And not having them makes it hard to play the protector/provider male gender role, and to be impressive/interesting/exciting/entertaining - making it hard to be a man, basically. I've had a hard time being a man because I'm neither good at nor interested in the things that men are supposed to be good at and interested in. It not only hurts the way others see me, but my own confidence and self-esteem as well.

This again?

We had this a couple of months ago, and I still don't feel I got to the bottom of it. You whinge and moan about being unskilled, not being able to complete basic "man tasks", and that you feel humiliated by it, but express zero desire to change this and actually learn any of those skills. This is explained away as "but I can't" as an absolute definitive, so you refuse to even try.

Seriously, there is a world of knowledge and information at your fingertips. In years past if a young man didn't have a father or male role model in his life, he'd be screwed, such important lessons as shaving, putting up shelves, tying a tie, change the oil on a car, would be much harder to come by. Now we have the internet, where literally everything has instructional videos available to everyone. Literally everything can be taught, no male comes out of the womb with a 'natural gift' at shaving, which is why we often cut ourselves in the process, but do something every day for a year, then try coming to me whining about how you "can't do it", I dare you.

So get some ******* pride and DO one of those things. Put some shelves up. Find a list of items you'd need (including, I assume, the shelves), and purchase or borrow those things. Then follow the instructional video. Sure, the first time you might get it wrong and the shelf isn't straight. That's ok, there's nobody watching, take it down and try again. If you repeat this process, eventually you will be left with a shelf that is level, that you put up with your own two hands, and every time you pass it, you'll get a little hit of "Yeah, I put that up." You don't have to find it personally exciting, but it's a useful skill that you will need later in life. At some point someone (hopefully a partner) will ask you to put some shelves up, and instead of spewing an essay about how you weren't gifted at birth with magical shelf-assembling abilities, you'll simply nod, remember that you've done this before, and get to work.

 

[MrLonely86]

......

Not only US destroys future of people , that counts for lots of parts of the world.