Nice Guys Finish Last?

[Omnipotent Soul]

This is so true. They don't seem to want the Nice Guys...

 

[VanillaCreme]

This is so true. They don't seem to want the Nice Guys...

Oi, let's not start this thing over...

 

[TheSkaFish]

The problem is that jerks offer fast, cheap, easy thrills. And (no) thanks to pop culture, they also offer image and social status as well. Jerks have a clear, if crummy, identity. There's no ambiguity as to who they are or what they're about. What they offer is instant gratification. And people as a whole seem to be drawn to that, they don't like to wait for things. It's why it's easier to eat junk food instead of cook a meal, or how it's easier to just watch TV or play games instead of sit down and work on ideas for a project you might have.

I would say I am a nice guy. I get very frustrated and angry with certain people and things but deep down I am a gentle soul. The problem with this is that I often forget to be interesting as well, or sometimes get caught up in thinking that they are mutually exclusive - you can either choose to be nice OR interesting, which isn't true. Nice is good but it's more of an expectation than a bonus. It's like a standard feature on a car - you don't get overjoyed that your car has a radio, because you expect it to have one. It's not a big deal then, when it does in fact have one.

Nice guys can beat jerks but only if you don't forget to be interesting. Nice is good but not enough by itself. Jerks have a lot of advantages but you can't start looking for reasons to give up either or else it's going to go on that way forever. I do believe that a nice guy can eventually offer more depth, and even more fun than a jerk, but it just takes more time.

So I'm working on being interesting. Working on making an identity change. I am getting back into reading and watching documentaries. I have a few projects lined up, and even the start of a business idea (maybe). I'm not saying I'm interesting already, I wouldn't say so. I'm just saying I wish I'd thought of all this, no, thought all of it was even possible, 10 or just 5 years ago. I'm sure it would have made a world of difference.

I'm not trying to stir up controversy. I'm just imploring nice guys not to give up on life, not to look for reasons to stay down. I did, and I wasted a ton of time I wish I could get back and if I had only been thinking differently all this time, I'd have been in a much better place today, I know it.

 

[VanillaCreme]

It's like a standard feature on a car - you don't get overjoyed that your car has a radio, because you expect it to have one. It's not a big deal then, when it does in fact have one.

Okay, this is understandable. One could say this about a guy. But at the same time, shouldn't "nice" be a trait? To me, "nice" isn't a type of guy... It's a quality someone has. They're either nice or they're not. If someone's nice, then great, that's good. And if someone's not nice, then **** 'em. They aren't worth being around if they have some type of attitude all the time.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Okay, this is understandable. One could say this about a guy. But at the same time, shouldn't "nice" be a trait? To me, "nice" isn't a type of guy... It's a quality someone has. They're either nice or they're not. If someone's nice, then great, that's good. And if someone's not nice, then **** 'em. They aren't worth being around if they have some type of attitude all the time.

True, but I feel it's more like, everyone is expected to be nice. That is the norm. So then, when they are nice, the question in everyone's mind is, so what else do they have to offer? Why pick this person, who is nice, over this other one, who is nice AND a musician, or outdoorsy, or is into bodybuilding, or is good with a joke, and so on.

Also, I think that people are willing to trade-off niceness for other things. This is where I think pop culture comes into play. I remember back in school, the athletes and the rich, stoner types were in high demand. It didn't matter that they were crummy people because they had status and to date one also carried status. They were willing to overlook a lack of niceness for an increase in social proof. It's this pop culture thing that those with a rebellious, confrontational, destructive attitude are seen as "cool".

Again, I read a book a while ago for school about Hell's Angels. It was a good book, actually. It was the one that launched Hunter S. Thompson's career as an author. Anyway, he lived with them for a while and described all the aspects of their life, and though they were violent, nasty, foolish people, women consistently wanted to hang around them. Even though they were treated badly. They were willing to accept that in order to have a piece of the notoriety, the image, the status. It's sad but people still do go for that.

 

[Minty]

Being nice is not something you do it`s something you are.

If it`s just who you are, than there is no race and there is no finish.
It`s just you being you.

I guess. I am nice to people I meet, but if they aren't nice to me then I turn pretty quickly. I wouldn't say anything to them, I'd just avoid them, full stop.

It is true that some people act nice to get what they want but I think they are pretty easy to spot once you've had experience of these kinds of people.

Although, I do think there is a big difference between niceness and kindness. Kindness in humanity is severely lacking.

 

[VanillaCreme]

True, but I feel it's more like, everyone is expected to be nice. That is the norm. So then, when they are nice, the question in everyone's mind is, so what else do they have to offer?

I don't know the type of people you grew up around or are around now, but I've never heard that question before after hearing someone was a nice person. And that's certainly not my first thought. People aren't cars or anything else you purchase. While I understood what you were saying, the fact that you have the tendency to compare folks to things you can buy or own says a lot in itself.

My first thought when hearing someone is a nice person is that that's a nice thing. "Oh, how lovely," is usually what I'd say to a comment that someone's nice.

 

[stork_error]

 

[TropicalStarfish]

I think we as people, tend to carry with us, on an unconscious level, a certain, 'vibe', for lack of a better word. It's like we are giving off this unspoken frequency. For some people it may be, I'm kind, caring, considerate, and put others before myself. I think in such a situation, it can often be the case, that we tend to attract people who see this as advantageous in getting things they want, that they can't get alone. It may also be that some one giving off such a, 'vibe' or 'frequency', may encounter others with a similiar frequency. However, the kicker is, that such a vibe is not asking for some one of like mind, such a vibe, is seeking out those in need.

For example, I might not notice the person who held a door open for me, because I was more concerned about not being able to hold the next door open for the person in front of me, if that makes sense. I think there is a certain honesty about the written word as it is handled online for the use of communication. There are many other ways to communicate online, webchat, voice chat, etc... Also, when we are one on one with a computer, it is essentially acting, often times, as a mirror. It can be a time of reflection, in a world, where outside of our private life, we walk around wearing clever masks.

I'm not sure some one can completely change the 'frequency' they emit, if you will, anymore than they can change the way they smell.

However, if one were a dog, that could talk, it would probably say (pardon the far fetched metaphor), that your diet can affect the way you smell, your surroundings, places you've been and frequent, a variety of things. Under all that quite literally your smell is going to be unique, and largely related to your genetics, but this may only account for 50% of what is considered information, if you can still follow the metaphor.

This is all true in my experience. Largely I find, that no matter how much I attempt to change, I am going to be who I am. What will change me over time, is time itself. My physical location, my health and the habits i have to take on or get rid of to maintain it, less I perish or become non-functional, the people I know, the one's I let into my life, kick out of it, etc... This all coming from the knowledge that, I can only know what I know from my experience, and that by and large my past experiences will shape my behavior in negative and positive ways, and that I can not rectify the negative effects of my behaviors, with out understanding my past, OR, perhaps, knowing where I want my future to lie.

So it is then, that we find ourselves in some beaten path far off from where we dreamed of arriving, perhaps, finally, stop, and say, "I don't know where I'm going, I know where I have been, and I'm not digging this path too much anymore." I suppose at this point in one's life, we scramble to find our bearings, and perhaps, with great courage and hope, head back the way we came in search of a better path, or if not, start on our own path.

I don't think it's ever too late. I could be wrong, but that is what my experience has taught me. Even if you realize the path you are on is not leading to the destination you desire to arrive at, all that is required is one foot step in a hopeful direction towards greener pastures, to be able to look one's self in the mind and say, I ******' tried. I started my own path, perhaps others will follow. I back tracked to find where I tookt he wrong turn, and took the other path, etc.. etc..

And even so perhaps the new path won't be perfect in of itself, however, perhaps then, we begin to cherish the journey along side the destination, which is really just a dream, trying to manifest itself. And in that journey of life, it is my hope, that, we find ourselves, at peace.

 

[ardour]

Nice guys can beat jerks but only if you don't forget to be interesting. Nice is good but not enough by itself. ....

So I'm working on being interesting. Working on making an identity change. I am getting back into reading and watching documentaries. I have a few projects lined up, and even the start of a business idea (maybe).

Focus more on being interested. Those with well developed interests will have a lot more to talk about than someone who mopes around the house obsessing over their 'approach', being "interesting" etc.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Nice guys can beat jerks but only if you don't forget to be interesting. Nice is good but not enough by itself. ....

So I'm working on being interesting. Working on making an identity change. I am getting back into reading and watching documentaries. I have a few projects lined up, and even the start of a business idea (maybe).

Focus more on being interested. Those with well developed interests will have a lot more to talk about than someone who mopes around the house obsessing over their 'approach', being "interesting" etc.

That's what I'm trying to do, develop my interests. One, because I want / need more to talk about. The good things in my life are good, but I feel I should be doing more with my life as well. Two, because I do want to do these things. Idk. I think we're meaning the same thing here.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Shouldn't one's interests be there because they actually have interest in them? And not because they think they might get people's attentions out of having these interests?

 

[EveWasFramed]

Shouldn't one's interests be there because they actually have interest in them? And not because they think they might get people's attentions out of having these interests?

Yes and no.

Having a variety of interests tends to make you interesting to others.
I found this to be very true when I started dating again.
I think finding things that YOU find interesting to participate in is best. Generally, it will help with the other issue (people finding you to be interesting) as well.
Just my two cents, based on my own personal experience.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Shouldn't one's interests be there because they actually have interest in them? And not because they think they might get people's attentions out of having these interests?

Yes and no.

Having a variety of interests tends to make you interesting to others.
I found this to be very true when I started dating again.
I think finding things that YOU find interesting to participate in is best. Generally, it will help with the other issue (people finding you to be interesting) as well.
Just my two cents, based on my own personal experience.

I suppose that makes sense. I mean, it helps to find someone who also likes sitting in a dark, dripping cave, AmIRight?

 

[EveWasFramed]

^^ LOL!!!