No relationship, drains life out of me.

[Xpendable]

Survivor bias.

 

[ardour]

The problem with people on this forum who complain about not having a relationship is that they (and anyone else agreeing with them) see only the little picture. It especially true when it comes to this thread where they believe a relationship would fix their unhappiness.  What people don't realize here is that problems are usually all interconnected, a good analogy is a 1000 piece puzzle.  Fixing life's problems is the same thing a putting a puzzle together - start with little things, easy things and work inward - the borders of a 1000 piece puzzle is where most people usually start, and as things progress, other pieces are touched multiple times and looked over, it becomes easier. The puzzle comes together more and more quickly.

Without writing a book, or long essay, I will just say from my own experience this works in real life.  I was a mess as a teen, and really naive and socially stupid in my 20's.  I had zero respect, and my body language and communication sent messages out to others that caused people to be disrespectful, sometimes mean.  I was a laughing stock - ever think about being in a room and everyone is laughing at something, and then you laugh with them until you realize they are laughing at you?  There is shame in that - I have a past that I'm ashamed of, or was.  And when I was about 30 - 32, I had enough and really wanted to end my life.  

Long story short, I withdrew from everyone and everything for ten years and went through a personal reform.  I had nobody to help me, counseling really was ineffective, my problems were too deep. My reforms covered every single detail of my life - communication with others including understanding and listening skills - speaking skills, I taught myself how to use better boundaries,  confronting/conflict-resolution skills.  I learned how to better control and understand my emotions.  I used role models as templates... I learned how to cook (and have become an excellent cook, I can gourmet cook) and adopted a healthier lifestyle. I reformed my workout routine from a strength endurance to a combination of strength, body-building, and added cardio.  The workout program and eating right, has been very helpful with everything else I was doing. I ignored people and relationships during this time. I was in a toxic loveless marriage which was good. I ignored her, and focused on myself and raising my son (who now is an adult and patterns his life after my own).

How and why this all fits into this thread?  Dismiss my marriage - there are people here who would say I was not unsuccessful because I was married, having ***, and whatever.  I married her because I didn't think I'd ever get another chance with a woman.  She was terrible to live with, and we were very incompatible.  Without wasting keystrokes here, don't think being married equates with being successful with women. She was a life lesson on what not to do.  Back to the point - I started small with personal reforms, like telling the truth no matter what.  I realized how much I was untruthful about myself because of how ashamed I was to be naive, and being me.  Instead of making excuses for my problems or weaknesses, I began to try to learn from my mistakes. Admitting when I was wrong when I had too, or admitting I didn't understand something IF I had to admit that.  I adapted to a life pattern of taking responsibility for my actions and choices.  I dismissed my past, and focused on changing my habits.

What I discovered was just like I mentioned above, as you fix things, other things fix themselves as you progress. Your skill levels change and your dealings with the world change, your perspective changes and as a result, other people change their perspectives of you, and their responses to you. The world responds to you, the way you interact with it and as YOU change, your world changes....for the better.

The little picture here, girlfriend relationships - at age 42, I emerged from personal reform knowing I had fixed a bunch of things.  I lost most of the few friends I had due to my abrupt withdraw, that's the price for my work on myself and to this day, I have no friends, no social circle, just acquaintances. What I did change was how people treated me, how they respect me.  I am strong and in a good place in life.  I divorced my toxic cheating wife, and entered the dating world immediately, (she told my son how lucky I was to have her, and that I never would get a girlfriend).  I found myself in the opposite situation, doing rather well in my love life.  I was respected at work, and in the community. I felt so relieved and grateful to be where I was that I started a community program for children I called <kids-club> and used community service projects to teach them life skills I had learned in personal reform. I just was so grateful and inspired to teach others, young people especially so that they might gain some life tools that I didn't have at their age. To maybe help tip the scale. I ended the program this year so I could spend my weekends having fun and romancing this wonderful woman who has made my life perfect.  I spent 11 years running this club - and I could write another post on the life skills I added to my toolbox doing this.

Anyway, my post is to tell you that life isn't as complicated as alot of people make it. Lonely people get so wrapped up in wanting a relationship that they don't realize that even if they were handed one, all those problems would follow them into the relationship and create a bigger problem.  As you begin to fix yourself, you will have more to offer someone and will discover doors opening for you - INCLUDING the relationship dept.  

The problem with people today, most people including here in this forum, don't take advice. They want to vent, they want people to vent with them, to validate their reasons for being lonely. They want to blame the other gender for being picky, not giving them a chance.  Facing shame, is not an easy thing to do.  I am going to tell you though, once you do it, once you fix some things.....you realize that what you were ashamed of was small potatoes.  "I was frozen in life because of that???"  I said this many times.  

I am engaged to the most beautiful woman I have ever had the privilege of being with.  She said she had a crush on me for 13 years, the year she started working with me.  That was when I turned 42, when I had wrapped up my reforms..... I told her she came at a perfect time, if it had been a few years sooner, or even earlier, she wouldn't have liked me.   And even now, I don't have a magnetic personality, I tend to "not get along" with others as opposed to the opposite.  Yet she tells me being with me, this is the first time in her life she's truly felt safe.  I am honored to provide that, something in the beginning I couldn't provide for myself.

This isn't bragging, don't take it wrong.  What I'm saying, is if I can do this, ANYONE can, including yourself.  It takes time, it takes determination, it takes patience.

Seemed like you were about to promote a book with all that. I can relate to some of it, particularly the social ineptness and wasted years of your 20s. At 55 you are very lucky to find a woman that interested in you though.

 

[michael2]

 Lonely people get so wrapped up in wanting a relationship that they don't realize that even if they were handed one, all those problems would follow them into the relationship and create a bigger problem.  As you begin to fix yourself, you will have more to offer someone and will discover doors opening for you - INCLUDING the relationship dept.  

The problem with people today, most people including here in this forum, don't take advice. They want to vent, they want people to vent with them, to validate their reasons for being lonely. They want to blame the other gender for being picky, not giving them a chance.  

See,  this is what is frustrating and unfair.  The whole idea that lonely single people have to 'fix themselves' and then just maybe they'll have a chance at a relationship.  I know alot of people with 'broken' personalities who have a line of people waiting for them.  The unfair part is they usually excel in just one or two key areas of attraction - good looks, outgoing personality/popularity, or they are wealthy, and it totally overshadows everything else about them.  Again its unfair that of the 3 areas only wealth usually requires hard work.  Good looks and an outgoing personality/popularity is something someone develops naturally or not.  

I dont like this whole narrative about how single/lonely people need to 'fix themselves',  like they are broken.  Everyone is broken in one way or the other.  Fixing yourself is a lifelong process that never ends.  The people who got married in their 20s, did they ever 'fix themselves' first?  Or where they always perfect and never needed any fixing?  The sad truth is some people do have to work much harder to find someone or be more attractive then others,  and alot of the time its not because they are 'broken', but rather because of the hand they were dealt in life.  

I know a guy came on here and said he feels his ethnicity is making things tougher for him.  I definitely can relate to that.  Yeah he came on here and vented about it - and I cant blame him.  What advice is he suppose to take for being an ethnic minority in the area he lives?  How does he fix that? Simple fact is the hand life dealt him has made it much harder for him to get into a relationship, and Im sure it frustrates him like hell.

  I went through my 20s relatively happy and content, despite things in my life not being any better then they are today.  It wasnt until I got to know an amazing girl for a brief period that I realized how much I was missing out on by not being in a relationship.  This opened up a very big empty hole in my heart that I have been unable to close for 2 years.  And believe me I wish I could close it and go back to being content again.  But I dont think that will ever happen.  

Theres no line waiting for me.  I get a chance every few years, and so far I've blown it every time.

 

[kamya]

This is exactly what I've always said about the whole "Love yourself" and "Work on yourself. Fix your self" or the famous "Being in a relationship won't fix your problems. Fix your problems first and then society will deem you worthy of its leftovers."

As if everyone else out there in relationships aren't just as ****** up as the lonely people posting here. Nope, they have it all figured out. They have no personality issues or problems. They were born as complete human projects.

Not you though. You are too ****** up. Not worthy. You must overcome all of your issues 100% on your own. When you are finally perfect then you might be granted a relationship by the universe. Even then if it doesn't happen then hey... no one owes you anything. And you sure as **** better not be bitter about it. "Being bitter is a turn-off no wonder you don't have any luck!"

"Don't act so entitled." A favorite line used by all of these other ****** up people that can trip and fall into relationships at a moments notice with 0 effort. 

Sometimes there are legitimate issues that need to be fixed and everyone should always be trying to better and improve themselves. However, people that tell others that they need to "fix" themselves FIRST are basically saying "We are all better than you." **** those people.

 

[TheSkaFish]

This is exactly what I've always said about the whole "Love yourself" and "Work on yourself. Fix your self" or the famous "Being in a relationship won't fix your problems. Fix your problems first and then society will deem you worthy of its leftovers."

As if everyone else out there in relationships aren't just as ****** up as the lonely people posting here. Nope, they have it all figured out. They have no personality issues or problems. They were born as complete human projects.

Not you though. You are too ****** up. Not worthy. You must overcome all of your issues 100% on your own. When you are finally perfect then you might be granted a relationship by the universe. Even then if it doesn't happen then hey... no one owes you anything. And you sure as **** better not be bitter about it. Being bitter is a turn-off no wonder you don't have any luck!

Don't act so entitled. A favorite line used by all of these other ****** up people that can trip and fall into relationships at a moments notice with 0 effort. 

Sometimes there are legitimate issues that need to be fixed and everyone should always be trying to better and improve themselves. However, people that tell others that they need to "fix" themselves FIRST are basically saying "We are all better than you." **** those people.

Man.  We may have had our disagreements on things in the past, but this time, I could not agree more.

These things you said are things that I feel all the time, especially the part about some people managing to get relationships with whoever they want like it's nothing, while clearly having issues and problems themselves.  Recently I was looking to see just what some of the so-called "cool guys" are like, but I really don't see what about them is so great.  They aren't that funny, and they say and do empty, immature, and stupid things.  They don't say things that are any more intelligent or substantial than the things I say.  They complain, they make poor life choices, they aren't that ambitious, they aren't that interesting, and they aren't that unique.  They're just ordinary people, not A-listers, not some kind of supermen, and a lot of them have problems of their own that they don't seem to be doing much about.  The only thing that I think they do have, is that they know how to maneuver and play the game of social/sexual politics.  They know how to be popular, "cool", "with it", an "insider".  They know how to make a big show of themselves and get others to go along with it.  

In the end, I guess I just have to try to do the work to be attractive.  I know I have legitimate issues about myself that I need to fix, and I know I won't get anyone I want like this, or probably anyone period.  But it pisses me off that I have to work and work and work some more, and I still might get no one that I want anyway, or even no one at all, and the world will just say "oh well", "hey, no one owes you anything", which is really just code for "**** you, loser".  All the while, these social insiders don't even have to try to do anything about their personality issues and problems, or their mediocrity.  "No" is a foreign word to them, life never seems to smack them down.  They just trip and fall into relationships, or all they have to do is ask and they get whoever they want, coasting by on a free pass made of charisma and charm.

 

[morrowrd]

The problem with people on this forum who complain about not having a relationship is that they (and anyone else agreeing with them) see only the little picture. It especially true when it comes to this thread where they believe a relationship would fix their unhappiness.  What people don't realize here is that problems are usually all interconnected, a good analogy is a 1000 piece puzzle.  Fixing life's problems is the same thing a putting a puzzle together - start with little things, easy things and work inward - the borders of a 1000 piece puzzle is where most people usually start, and as things progress, other pieces are touched multiple times and looked over, it becomes easier. The puzzle comes together more and more quickly.

Without writing a book, or long essay, I will just say from my own experience this works in real life.  I was a mess as a teen, and really naive and socially stupid in my 20's.  I had zero respect, and my body language and communication sent messages out to others that caused people to be disrespectful, sometimes mean.  I was a laughing stock - ever think about being in a room and everyone is laughing at something, and then you laugh with them until you realize they are laughing at you?  There is shame in that - I have a past that I'm ashamed of, or was.  And when I was about 30 - 32, I had enough and really wanted to end my life.  

Long story short, I withdrew from everyone and everything for ten years and went through a personal reform.  I had nobody to help me, counseling really was ineffective, my problems were too deep. My reforms covered every single detail of my life - communication with others including understanding and listening skills - speaking skills, I taught myself how to use better boundaries,  confronting/conflict-resolution skills.  I learned how to better control and understand my emotions.  I used role models as templates... I learned how to cook (and have become an excellent cook, I can gourmet cook) and adopted a healthier lifestyle. I reformed my workout routine from a strength endurance to a combination of strength, body-building, and added cardio.  The workout program and eating right, has been very helpful with everything else I was doing. I ignored people and relationships during this time. I was in a toxic loveless marriage which was good. I ignored her, and focused on myself and raising my son (who now is an adult and patterns his life after my own).

How and why this all fits into this thread?  Dismiss my marriage - there are people here who would say I was not unsuccessful because I was married, having ***, and whatever.  I married her because I didn't think I'd ever get another chance with a woman.  She was terrible to live with, and we were very incompatible.  Without wasting keystrokes here, don't think being married equates with being successful with women. She was a life lesson on what not to do.  Back to the point - I started small with personal reforms, like telling the truth no matter what.  I realized how much I was untruthful about myself because of how ashamed I was to be naive, and being me.  Instead of making excuses for my problems or weaknesses, I began to try to learn from my mistakes. Admitting when I was wrong when I had too, or admitting I didn't understand something IF I had to admit that.  I adapted to a life pattern of taking responsibility for my actions and choices.  I dismissed my past, and focused on changing my habits.

What I discovered was just like I mentioned above, as you fix things, other things fix themselves as you progress. Your skill levels change and your dealings with the world change, your perspective changes and as a result, other people change their perspectives of you, and their responses to you. The world responds to you, the way you interact with it and as YOU change, your world changes....for the better.

The little picture here, girlfriend relationships - at age 42, I emerged from personal reform knowing I had fixed a bunch of things.  I lost most of the few friends I had due to my abrupt withdraw, that's the price for my work on myself and to this day, I have no friends, no social circle, just acquaintances. What I did change was how people treated me, how they respect me.  I am strong and in a good place in life.  I divorced my toxic cheating wife, and entered the dating world immediately, (she told my son how lucky I was to have her, and that I never would get a girlfriend).  I found myself in the opposite situation, doing rather well in my love life.  I was respected at work, and in the community. I felt so relieved and grateful to be where I was that I started a community program for children I called <kids-club> and used community service projects to teach them life skills I had learned in personal reform. I just was so grateful and inspired to teach others, young people especially so that they might gain some life tools that I didn't have at their age. To maybe help tip the scale. I ended the program this year so I could spend my weekends having fun and romancing this wonderful woman who has made my life perfect.  I spent 11 years running this club - and I could write another post on the life skills I added to my toolbox doing this.

Anyway, my post is to tell you that life isn't as complicated as alot of people make it. Lonely people get so wrapped up in wanting a relationship that they don't realize that even if they were handed one, all those problems would follow them into the relationship and create a bigger problem.  As you begin to fix yourself, you will have more to offer someone and will discover doors opening for you - INCLUDING the relationship dept.  

The problem with people today, most people including here in this forum, don't take advice. They want to vent, they want people to vent with them, to validate their reasons for being lonely. They want to blame the other gender for being picky, not giving them a chance.  Facing shame, is not an easy thing to do.  I am going to tell you though, once you do it, once you fix some things.....you realize that what you were ashamed of was small potatoes.  "I was frozen in life because of that???"  I said this many times.  

I am engaged to the most beautiful woman I have ever had the privilege of being with.  She said she had a crush on me for 13 years, the year she started working with me.  That was when I turned 42, when I had wrapped up my reforms..... I told her she came at a perfect time, if it had been a few years sooner, or even earlier, she wouldn't have liked me.   And even now, I don't have a magnetic personality, I tend to "not get along" with others as opposed to the opposite.  Yet she tells me being with me, this is the first time in her life she's truly felt safe.  I am honored to provide that, something in the beginning I couldn't provide for myself.

This isn't bragging, don't take it wrong.  What I'm saying, is if I can do this, ANYONE can, including yourself.  It takes time, it takes determination, it takes patience.

Seemed like you were about to promote a book with all that. I can relate to some of it, particularly the social ineptness and wasted years of your 20s. At 55 you are very lucky to find a woman that interested in you though.

I know, there's alot here.   Going into this way back when, I knew NOTHING.  I haven't even really scratched the surface here about all the work, and all the life systems I created.  That tends to be a problem when sharing in forums, rather long posts can look like paid commercials.  This is true life though, and my choice could be to not even share, that's the easier thing. That post took about an hour, with editing.... if I really didn't care, I'd just not write anything.  I do care though, so many people struggle in life with the same things I struggled with. Thats why I share, thats why I believe many of us share. Alot of forums like this are full of angry posts - anger is the fruit of frustration....which is the result of feeling out of control, things aren't fair, feeling like there's nothing you can do. What I'm trying to share is that there actually is something you can do.

Yes I'm lucky. I still consider my situation Beauty and the Geek. (I'm 51, not in a rush lol)

---

 Lonely people get so wrapped up in wanting a relationship that they don't realize that even if they were handed one, all those problems would follow them into the relationship and create a bigger problem.  As you begin to fix yourself, you will have more to offer someone and will discover doors opening for you - INCLUDING the relationship dept.  

The problem with people today, most people including here in this forum, don't take advice. They want to vent, they want people to vent with them, to validate their reasons for being lonely. They want to blame the other gender for being picky, not giving them a chance.  

See,  this is what is frustrating and unfair.  The whole idea that lonely single people have to 'fix themselves' and then just maybe they'll have a chance at a relationship.  I know alot of people with 'broken' personalities who have a line of people waiting for them.  The unfair part is they usually excel in just one or two key areas of attraction - good looks, outgoing personality/popularity, or they are wealthy, and it totally overshadows everything else about them.  Again its unfair that of the 3 areas only wealth usually requires hard work.  Good looks and an outgoing personality/popularity is something someone develops naturally or not.  

I dont like this whole narrative about how single/lonely people need to 'fix themselves',  like they are broken.  Everyone is broken in one way or the other.  Fixing yourself is a lifelong process that never ends.  The people who got married in their 20s, did they ever 'fix themselves' first?  Or where they always perfect and never needed any fixing?  The sad truth is some people do have to work much harder to find someone or be more attractive then others,  and alot of the time its not because they are 'broken', but rather because of the hand they were dealt in life.  

I know a guy came on here and said he feels his ethnicity is making things tougher for him.  I definitely can relate to that.  Yeah he came on here and vented about it - and I cant blame him.  What advice is he suppose to take for being an ethnic minority in the area he lives?  How does he fix that? Simple fact is the hand life dealt him has made it much harder for him to get into a relationship, and Im sure it frustrates him like hell.

  I went through my 20s relatively happy and content, despite things in my life not being any better then they are today.  It wasnt until I got to know an amazing girl for a brief period that I realized how much I was missing out on by not being in a relationship.  This opened up a very big empty hole in my heart that I have been unable to close for 2 years.  And believe me I wish I could close it and go back to being content again.  But I dont think that will ever happen.  

Theres no line waiting for me.  I get a chance every few years, and so far I've blown it every time.

Well, you can continue running in your squirrel cage, or you can call a spade a spade.  If you don't believe you need fixing, don't believe it and love yourself.

However, if your system isn't working, what have you got to lose by trying someone else's system that does work?  What the hell are role models for anyway?  If you read the whole post, you'll see that part of my reforms were based on the use of role models.  Role models are crucial - you imitate what they do that works, and make it your own.

 

[TheRealCallie]

It doesn't really have anything to do with being single or lonely. I'm single (kind of) and I was lonely at one point in time, but I had no desire to have anyone if I couldn't have the guy I wanted. ONE PERSON, I would settle for no other. See how ****** up that is? See how ridiculous that sounds? I won't even say that my standards were too high, because they were actually too low.
Anyway, my point is that now I'm single, but I'm no longer lonely. I don't want a guy, I don't want to date, I'm perfectly fine by myself. I'm okay with who I am again, I'm okay with how I look (mostly).

This is what the issue is with some people. (I said SOME PEOPLE, so obviously I'm not talking about all of you) They are NOT okay with who they are, they are not okay by themselves, they are desperate, they have impossible standards, they are depressed/bitter/negative. There are always exceptions to the "rule," but it's probably more likely that these things will turn off women, throw you into the "friendzone" or get you "ghosted" (I really hate that word).
What most of the other guys that some of you like to blame so much have is confidence. Most of you guys don't, whether you want to admit that or not. Maybe you're scared, maybe you subconsciously sabotage it, I don't know, but THAT is why you have to work on your issues. I've seen some people here over the years that the only thing that seemed to be wrong with them was their negative *** attitude. They are so sure they are going to fail, that they fail. Self fulfilling prophecy and all that. Some other guys that I've seen here over the years are bound and determined to blame everyone but themselves that they get so resentful and bitter that they basically don't have a chance because they are too focused on everyone else and what they have.

Oh and you should NEVER "fix" yourself for someone else. Always do it for yourself, to be a better person, to be...if not happier, at least content.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Sometimes there are legitimate issues that need to be fixed and everyone should always be trying to better and improve themselves. However, people that tell others that they need to "fix" themselves FIRST are basically saying "We are all better than you." **** those people.

I wouldn't necessarily say "fix" themselves first. But don't expect a relationship to solve all their issues. There's a lot of people just on this forum that think, "If I only had a boyfriend/girlfriend, my problems would go away." So I can only imagine how many folks in the rest of the world think that. And that's a lot of pressure to go into it with someone who thinks that.

 

[michael2]

Well, you can continue running in your squirrel cage, or you can call a spade a spade.  If you don't believe you need fixing, don't believe it and love yourself.

However, if your system isn't working, what have you got to lose by trying someone else's system that does work?  What the hell are role models for anyway?  If you read the whole post, you'll see that part of my reforms were based on the use of role models.  Role models are crucial - you imitate what they do that works, and make it your own.

Ive already gone through something of a mini-improvement, and its done nothing.  My brother could care less about improving anything, yet hes never single because of one thing,  he looks good.  I remember when he was wearing a ratty t-shirt and oversized sweat pants, while I was dressed very nicely and we walked passed a group of girls,  and guess who they were looking at?  Not me of course.  Im not jealous of my brother,  Im just noticing how unbelievably unfair life is.  And despite trying twice as hard as some others I still come up empty.

Now, if I really want to get out of the squirrel cage so to speak,  I would have to become a smooth talking compliment dishing pickup artist.  Do what modern women want you to do.  Be aggressive pursuing them.  Put your hands on them.  Be the bad boy *******.  Which makes me think if thats what women really want then I am such a fool for even wanting a relationship with them in the first place.

It doesn't really have anything to do with being single or lonely. I'm single (kind of) and I was lonely at one point in time, but I had no desire to have anyone if I couldn't have the guy I wanted. ONE PERSON, I would settle for no other. See how ****** up that is? See how ridiculous that sounds? I won't even say that my standards were too high, because they were actually too low. 
Anyway, my point is that now I'm single, but I'm no longer lonely. I don't want a guy, I don't want to date, I'm perfectly fine by myself. I'm okay with who I am again, I'm okay with how I look (mostly).

This is what the issue is with some people. (I said SOME PEOPLE, so obviously I'm not talking about all of you) They are NOT okay with who they are, they are not okay by themselves, they are desperate, they have impossible standards, they are depressed/bitter/negative. There are always exceptions to the "rule," but it's probably more likely that these things will turn off women, throw you into the "friendzone" or get you "ghosted" (I really hate that word). 
What most of the other guys that some of you like to blame so much have is confidence. Most of you guys don't, whether you want to admit that or not. Maybe you're scared, maybe you subconsciously sabotage it, I don't know, but THAT is why you have to work on your issues. I've seen some people here over the years that the only thing that seemed to be wrong with them was their negative *** attitude. They are so sure they are going to fail, that they fail. Self fulfilling prophecy and all that. Some other guys that I've seen here over the years are bound and determined to blame everyone but themselves that they get so resentful and bitter that they basically don't have a chance because they are too focused on everyone else and what they have. 

Oh and you should NEVER "fix" yourself for someone else. Always do it for yourself, to be a better person, to be...if not happier, at least content.

Yeah Id be beaming with confidence too if I had been in relationships consistently since highschool like so many of the guys who do have confidence.  Its nearly impossible to build confidence with the opposite *** when you have no or very little experience dating.  Im really tired of people saying 'have confidence' like its something everyone but you earned by working hard at it.  They didnt.  The majority of people are given confidence by others.  That could be by someone showing them romantic attention, or complimenting their looks,  or personality, usually by strangers which helps alot.  In my life I've had very, very little of that.  Its like my sisters tellling me to have confidence, when they have guys hitting on them almost weekly.  Yeah its easy to have confidence with that happening.  Try going years without the opposite *** showing you any attention and see what that does to your confidence.

Im sure I am coming off as negative, but you know what, theres alot of negative,  nasty things in life.  Life is not fair at all.  And Im so sick and tired of having to put in twice the effort to even be considered worthy of having my basic human needs met.  And yeah, its easy to say stop focusing on what others have, when you you are content with what you have.  Im not content in being single.  I was before and could care less seeing so many jerks in relationships.  Now that I want to be in a relationship it bothers me,  makes me question everything about myself,  my looks, my personality, everything.  "If they can do it so easily,  why cant you?"  That messes with you.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Ive already gone through something of a mini-improvement, and its done nothing.  My brother could care less about improving anything, yet hes never single because of one thing,  he looks good.

If you've done this mini-improvement with the thought that you could finally bag someone, and I get that idea from the comment about your brother never being single, then you're probably doing it for the wrong reason. You improve yourself for you. I don't get the notion of, "Why should i have to improve myself when it won't do anything?" You'd think that people would want to better themselves to actually feel better about themselves. It's not supposed to give you a relationship or anything.

 

[morrowrd]

I deleted a bunch of bubbles, it was confusing. 


< Ive already gone through something of a mini-improvement, and its done nothing.  My brother could care less about improving anything, yet hes never single because of one thing,  he looks good.  I remember when he was wearing a ratty t-shirt and oversized sweat pants, while I was dressed very nicely and we walked passed a group of girls,  and guess who they were looking at?  Not me of course.  Im not jealous of my brother,  Im just noticing how unbelievably unfair life is.  And despite trying twice as hard as some others I still come up empty.>
 
The kid looking at the body building magazines and comparing them to himself while looking in the mirror and thinking that life isn’t fair, because he has been working out for a few months, is doing what you are doing.  Looking at the little picture, like I said earlier.  
 
You are so wrapped up in not having a relationship, and comparing yourself to someone else who breezes into relationships because of his good looks.  You want what he has, and you aren't going to have it granted to you. Thats how it is.
 
When you work on yourself, set aside relationships, girlfriend desires, and consider what your doing a life investment. You only live once, (no offense new-ager’s, but a bird in the hand they say…) and if you are unhappy, you have nothing to lose by trying what others have tried and succeeded with.  If you try it and are still unhappy, are you really out anything?   When you work on the big picture, alot of peripheral problems will come together, as you move along.  You have to focus on one workable area at a time, fix one thing, then another, then another.  As you progress, four or five, sometimes more issues, fix themselves. (I can come back to this) 
 
What exactly did you do with your own personal reform?  Just curious. How long did you work at it?  What kind of trial and error?


 
 
< Now, if I really want to get out of the squirrel cage so to speak,  I would have to become a smooth talking compliment dishing pickup artist.  Do what modern women want you to do.  Be aggressive pursuing them.  Put your hands on them.  Be the bad boy *******.  Which makes me think if thats what women really want then I am such a fool for even wanting a relationship with them in the first place.>

 
If it’s not in your blood, it’s not in your blood. Pretending to be a bad boy is going to make you look like a fool. You will know it, the girls will know it, the real bad boys will know it, everyone will know it.  All these books and websites teaching that stupid doctrine are not going to help you succeed. 


 
<Its nearly impossible to build confidence with the opposite *** when you have no or very little experience dating.  Im really tired of people saying 'have confidence' like its something everyone but you earned by working hard at it.  They didnt.  The majority of people are given confidence by others.>

As iron sharpens iron, so does one person sharpen the other.  Confidence is earned, in most cases.  I doubt people are born confident – and just as other people can make you feel confident, they can make you feel insecure. That’s why it’s good to work on yourself, on your own. It’s a baby-step process… a penny doesn’t look like much but 1,000 of them are worth something.  Like the workout analogy above, when we workout, it’s a life investment.  Ignore magazines and mirrors, and do it no matter what. Over time, you develop into someone very different than when you started out.  Personal reforms, confidence building, all that takes patience, time, and determination.  Over time, you become a different person and success will happen. It has to happen because we are getting better and better at what we’re doing. We are getting stronger. 
 
 
  <That could be by someone showing them romantic attention, or complimenting their looks,  or personality, usually by strangers which helps alot.  In my life I've had very, very little of that.  Its like my sisters tellling me to have confidence, when they have guys hitting on them almost weekly.  Yeah its easy to have confidence with that happening.  Try going years without the opposite *** showing you any attention and see what that does to your confidence.>
 
Why are the best looking men and women then….so insecure about themselves? Constantly spending hours and hours trying to look good, worried about their façade?  Why do some good looking looking people put others down?  It’s all about that same insecurity

 

[ardour]

It's symptomatic of something in society when a nonvirtue like confidence turns out to be the most important trait when attracting partner.

Don't have any? Go work on that, or be alone. And no, it doesn't matter what else you might have achieved, or what kind of person you are.

 

[morrowrd]

It's symptomatic of something in society when a  nonvirtue like confidence turns out to be the most important trait when attracting partner.

Don't have any? Go work on that, or be alone. And no, it doesn't matter what else you might have achieved, or what kind of person you are.

confidence is an inner resource I would think you'd want.  Who gives an F about society, what about you?  Who gives a flying F what or how society rates us!! Don't you want to walk around in the world looking at stuff, at stituations....your own or others and say, "I can do something about that, because I can?" Every ******* person on earth, non-social anti-social, social anxiety, social phobia, social dysfunction (me) - normal - can use that kind of power.

 

[ardour]

Nevermind.

 

[VanillaCreme]

confidence is an inner resource I would think you'd want.  Who gives an F about society, what about you?  Who gives a flying F what or how society rates us!! Don't you want to walk around in the world looking at stuff, at stituations....your own or others and say, "I can do something about that, because I can?" Every ******* person on earth, non-social anti-social, social anxiety, social phobia, social dysfunction (me) - normal - can use that kind of power.

At least someone gets it...

 

[michael2]

If you've done this mini-improvement with the thought that you could finally bag someone, and I get that idea from the comment about your brother never being single, then you're probably doing it for the wrong reason. You improve yourself for you. I don't get the notion of, "Why should i have to improve myself when it won't do anything?" You'd think that people would want to better themselves to actually feel better about themselves. It's not supposed to give you a relationship or anything.

Yeah I understand you should improve yourself regardless of wanting to be in a relationship.  Im just saying improving yourself in general isnt a magic bullet that will get you with someone.  Lets say getting into a relationship is like dunking a basketball.  If your 5' tall it doesnt matter how much you improve your jumping,  your still going to come up short.  You have to think outside the box.  So instead of focusing so much on improving your jumping ability maybe you should invest in the materials and time needed to build a ladder to jump off to make the dunk.  If you arent improving the right areas of yourself,  a relationship will still stay out of reach.

 Besides, being more attractive to a potential partner wasnt the entire reason for myself improvement.  I also wanted to feel better about myself,  I wanted my outward appearance to reflect who I was on the inside, I wanted people to respect me more, and I wanted to be a better member of society.

And in the end there isnt anything wrong with improving yourself so you'll be a better partner when the opportunity represents itself.

The kid looking at the body building magazines and comparing them to himself while looking in the mirror and thinking that life isn’t fair, because he has been working out for a few months, is doing what you are doing.  Looking at the little picture, like I said earlier.   
 
You are so wrapped up in not having a relationship, and comparing yourself to someone else who breezes into relationships because of his good looks.  You want what he has, and you aren't going to have it granted to you. Thats how it is.
 
When you work on yourself, set aside relationships, girlfriend desires, and consider what your doing a life investment. You only live once, (no offense new-ager’s, but a bird in the hand they say…) and if you are unhappy, you have nothing to lose by trying what others have tried and succeeded with.  If you try it and are still unhappy, are you really out anything?   When you work on the big picture, alot of peripheral problems will come together, as you move along.  You have to focus on one workable area at a time, fix one thing, then another, then another.  As you progress, four or five, sometimes more issues, fix themselves. (I can come back to this) 
 
What exactly did you do with your own personal reform?  Just curious. How long did you work at it?  What kind of trial and error?

Well,  I think you might be right.  I am looking at the little picture, in a way.  I've only really pursued a relationship for the last couple of years.  Ive had no success so far, but in the grand scheme of things that is a short period of time.  I am 32 now.  I think I'll have more success with older, more mature women anyway.  But that doesnt mean I'll take someone who played around with everyone in their 20s and are just now ready to settle down in a serious relationship.

My physical appearance self improvement has been somewhat recent.  It started with losing about 25 lbs and getting down to my ideal BMI and getting a gym membership.  I use to not care about what clothes I wore, but then I realized how powerful they are in letting other people know what type of person you are.  As a reserved person its not so easy for people to see what type of person I am.  Clothes do this for me without me having to say a single word.  As for personality improvements I have had problems with several 'nice guy' issues like worrying too much about offending or hurting people, or not being decisive enough.  I feel I solved most of them to a reasonable degree.

As iron sharpens iron, so does one person sharpen the other.  Confidence is earned, in most cases.  I doubt people are born confident – and just as other people can make you feel confident, they can make you feel insecure. That’s why it’s good to work on yourself, on your own. It’s a baby-step process… a penny doesn’t look like much but 1,000 of them are worth something.  Like the workout analogy above, when we workout, it’s a life investment.  Ignore magazines and mirrors, and do it no matter what. Over time, you develop into someone very different than when you started out.  Personal reforms, confidence building, all that takes patience, time, and determination.  Over time, you become a different person and success will happen. It has to happen because we are getting better and better at what we’re doing. We are getting stronger. 

Growing up I think people gain confidence by general compliments from other people.  Your good looking.  Your smart.  Your cool.  Your fun.  Your nice.  Some people got these compliments more then others growing up.  In turn they developed into socially confident adults.  Others did not get many or any compliments.  They developed into adults lacking social confidence.  In many cases people received undue confidence,  while others did not get as much as they deserved.  

People who received little confidence as children are likely to struggle with that for the rest of their lives.  And its very annoying when people with confidence run around and tell them 'get confidence'.  They have no idea they're likely talking to people who are emotionally damaged to the very core, and getting confident in themselves is in no way a switch they can just flip on.  Even great personal improvement may not bring them confidence if they still lack compliments and approval from others.

It's symptomatic of something in society when a nonvirtue like confidence turns out to be the most important trait when attracting partner.

Don't have any? Go work on that, or be alone. And no, it doesn't matter what else you might have achieved, or what kind of person you are.

It is a non virture and rather shallow.  But hey,  that seems to be what attracts people the most.  Same with other shallow non-virtues like good looks, popularity, and wealth.  Have a decent amount of any of those 4 and your almost guaranteed to never be single, despite how crummy you might be anywhere else as a person.

 

[ardour]

Why is it that you assume that lonely people haven’t already or aren’t in the process of improving themselves anyway. I am physically active and in decent shape, ideal BMI, dress fairly well and all that. I don’t earn much atm but I’m completing a Masters. It's not like I spend my life dishevelled, watching anime while living in a basement.

So you found someone, good for you, but do we really need condescending advice that reduce all our life experience down to Law of Attraction plus generic solutions.

 

[morrowrd]

Why is it that you assume that lonely people haven’t already or aren’t in the process of improving themselves anyway. I am physically active and in decent shape, ideal BMI, dress fairly well and all that. I don’t earn much atm but I’m completing a Masters.  It's not like I spend my life dishevelled, watching anime while living in a  basement.

So you found someone, good for you, but do we really need condescending advice that reduce all  our life experience down to  Law of Attraction plus generic solutions.

I replied, but changed my mind and deleted most of my post.

For the tenth time, I am trying to show you that there are 1000 other puzzle pieces here. That when you work on yourself, and the ball gets rolling, doors will open for you - other things re calibrate such as relationship opportunities, how people treat and respect you, how you carry yourself, how you work through conflict, the list goes f'n on and on. Thats it in a nutshell and it is your privilege to not believe it.

 

[TheRealCallie]

^^

 

[Xpendable]

So, you should not think about relationships and improve to the point others want to have a relationship with you.
In that case, why should anyone end up wanting the relationship at the end if the improvement goes well? Do you see the paradox?