Obnoxious defensive gestures

[jc89]

I wanted to ask another question in another topic I made, but it's really a different subject (that relates to the last one).

Death stares, purse/wallet clutching, women covering their chest. I guess I've had this happen to me here and there all my life, but now I can't remember the last time I went through a day without it happening.

Going outdoors isn't a place for me to unwind anymore, it's a place to mentally arm myself to fight off negativity. It's insulting and disappointing. I just take it on the chin and try to forget about it. Most of the time, on the street, at the store, and even at work, I keep my head down, and pretend I don't notice anyone passing me by and "acting" a certain way in a presence. At this point, a person who doesn't act insanely defensive around me catches me off-guard. Wow, a stranger said "good morning" to me? The cashier is small-talking with me? We're entering an office to talk business without slamming the door wide open?

But that isn't exactly the best way to make friends and acquaintances, is it? How else am I supposed to act, if the first impression most people want to give you is, you're absolutely a criminal?

Has this happened to you? Better yet, does this always happen to you, every day that you leave your house?

I don't know what's changed, with me or maybe with the world, but this has been every day life for me, since at least 2007. I used to be social and outgoing, but now I'm too busy playing this mental game with people, wondering how they're going to overreact to me entering a room.

 

[painter's radio]

Any ideas why this is happening? Do you have tattooes all over your face or something?

 

[jc89]

I wish I knew what the hell happened to me since 2007. I think I look pretty normal--at worst, maybe you'd think I'm kind of ugly, I guess... but nothing about me is out of the ordinary. I dress conservatively and mind my business. Still, that's the kind of treatment that I get-- not from everyone, but from enough people that something happens literally every day. And I've moved around a lot these past 6 years.

 

[Tiina63]

A lot of people are defensive nowadays around strangers. I am myself. So there may not be anything personal in it. It could be just that you are noticing it more.

 

[Lost Drifter]

I haven’t read your other posts but yes, I suffer the same thing on most occasions, it can cast you in such a negative light that you constantly feel like the nasty guy even when you’re nowhere near being such. I don’t know if I get any stares from people but there is most certainly a look of suspicion. Shop workers don’t feel the need to be as polite to you as they do other customers, people are impatient and rude just to deal with you quicker so that you’re out of their way, men will puff out their chests and give a mean glare as they walk past with their girlfriends etc. I really dread the occasions when I have to ask a stranger for the time or directions, it’s like they jump out of their skin, one man even said that he knew “your sort and the trouble you bring” one time.

But what trouble? I’d really like to know especially as I’m polite, well-spoken (which can cause a fair share of problems) and willing to bend over backwards to help folks. I know that it has a lot to do with how we look. Like you I dress conservatively and mind my business but I’m also well built after starting to work out again and with a shaved head and stubble a lot of people look at me like I’m a criminal. It also doesn’t help that my normal, relaxed face looks kind of mean so even when I’m in a good mood and doing my best to smile, on the odd occasion I let it slip people just see a mean looking big guy who is obviously out to steal their wallets and rape their women.

It’s frustrating, most men see you as a threat and most women see you as the bad boy type who are suspicious of anything you say!

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

I am admittedly guilty of giving EVERYONE death stares. I don't mean it. Sometimes I'll look at people joking around or hanging out, thinking, "Wow, that looks fun..." and they'll suddenly flinch with the, "What did we do to YOU?" look. I've been approached by strangers and told to stop frowning or looking so angry (to which I respond with a deeper frown because at that point I'm embarrassed). Sometimes if I happen by someone who's in need of help (directions, bus schedules, getting their suitcase or baby stroller up stairs) they'll look at me like I was about to up and mug them until I let them know I can offer some help. But I know it's just my expression. I look really gloomy and intense.

So my question is, did you ever consider that your facial expression over the years has become more intense or unfriendly the more you think about and dread others' reactions to you? Perhaps you were having off luck in 2007, or maybe something was happening to you, or maybe the people you lived with in the area at the time were simply guarded, but the more you think about people being defensive towards you, the more you are definitely going to defend yourself from other people. One thing you may develop is a "get away from me," face. Or maybe, even if you put on a polite face, it begins to look very obviously forced. Those are some things you may want to think about.

 

[duff]

I used to get this a little bit years ago. People doing a 'double take' when they walked past me, nobody wanting to sit next to me on a bus, old ladies stopping in their tracks muttering 'I don't like the look of him', people laughing at me for no reason, people smirking and suppressing giggles. I guess I looked odd or intense. I don't get it much now or I don't notice it so much.

I have noticed people making fun out of my voice in the last few weeks. I work as a cashier and when I say 'yes please', the customer says 'yes, please' in a piss take of how I speak. This has happened at least 5 times in the last few weeks. I know I speak 'funny' but it's just the way I speak, I can't speak any different. Today I asked this guy if he wanted a 'bag' and he replied 'no I don't want a 'bag' - doing an impression of how I say 'bag' - I just say 'whatever' to the customer and carry on. I'm not impressed by these people. I would never mock the way somebody talks. Ive never done it ever, even as a customer.

---

I haven’t read your other posts but yes, I suffer the same thing on most occasions, it can cast you in such a negative light that you constantly feel like the nasty guy even when you’re nowhere near being such. I don’t know if I get any stares from people but there is most certainly a look of suspicion. Shop workers don’t feel the need to be as polite to you as they do other customers, people are impatient and rude just to deal with you quicker so that you’re out of their way, men will puff out their chests and give a mean glare as they walk past with their girlfriends etc. I really dread the occasions when I have to ask a stranger for the time or directions, it’s like they jump out of their skin, one man even said that he knew “your sort and the trouble you bring” one time.

But what trouble? I’d really like to know especially as I’m polite, well-spoken (which can cause a fair share of problems) and willing to bend over backwards to help folks. I know that it has a lot to do with how we look. Like you I dress conservatively and mind my business but I’m also well built after starting to work out again and with a shaved head and stubble a lot of people look at me like I’m a criminal. It also doesn’t help that my normal, relaxed face looks kind of mean so even when I’m in a good mood and doing my best to smile, on the odd occasion I let it slip people just see a mean looking big guy who is obviously out to steal their wallets and rape their women.

It’s frustrating, most men see you as a threat and most women see you as the bad boy type who are suspicious of anything you say!

I work as a cashier and I know what you mean. Some customers we do try to get rid of quicker than others. If a customer is loud or appears drunk. Based on looks I don't try to be any different though. Some people just don't have appealing faces. They look mean, grumpy, moody. Half the time it's just their face and facial expressions and not how they are as a person. Some customers who look shy or sad or look like they are lonely, I am extra nice to these people eg chatting more.

I know I don't have a great face or facial expressions. I look miserable all the time even though I am not. It's just the way my face sort of hangs, it defaults into a frown. I try to smile as much as I can to compensate for this !

---

I am admittedly guilty of giving EVERYONE death stares. I don't mean it. Sometimes I'll look at people joking around or hanging out, thinking, "Wow, that looks fun..." and they'll suddenly flinch with the, "What did we do to YOU?" look. I've been approached by strangers and told to stop frowning or looking so angry (to which I respond with a deeper frown because at that point I'm embarrassed). Sometimes if I happen by someone who's in need of help (directions, bus schedules, getting their suitcase or baby stroller up stairs) they'll look at me like I was about to up and mug them until I let them know I can offer some help. But I know it's just my expression. I look really gloomy and intense.

So my question is, did you ever consider that your facial expression over the years has become more intense or unfriendly the more you think about and dread others' reactions to you? Perhaps you were having off luck in 2007, or maybe something was happening to you, or maybe the people you lived with in the area at the time were simply guarded, but the more you think about people being defensive towards you, the more you are definitely going to defend yourself from other people. One thing you may develop is a "get away from me," face. Or maybe, even if you put on a polite face, it begins to look very obviously forced. Those are some things you may want to think about.

some people have friendly faces and some do not.

It's a major thing in how people treat you !

 

[ardour]

Nice topic.. I have to make a concious effort to smile but not too much otherwise it looks forced and creepy.

It's insulting when women think you're following them when you happen to be walking in the same direction. There's the odd death stare, although if there are plenty of people about then women are generally less 'concerned' by you.

Does the area you live in have a high crime rate?

Maybe just try and relax and your face might follow suit.

 

[jc89]

I work as a civilian on a gated military base. How the hell could I possibly get away with snatching a purse? That's why I called them "obnoxious" gestures. I understand taking precautions for your safety, like if we were alone on a poorly-lit street or something, but this is just being mean-spirited.

 

[bodafuko]

Essentially, people are retarded.

 

[ardour]

It might be that you're actually staring at people while watching for these reactions. Like there's a need to look to confirm what you expect and it's making it worse.

 

[bodafuko]

I tend to wear a look on my face that sort of calmly and nonchalantly says "I really don't care what you think...in the nicest possible way...have a great day!" - this goes a long way toward keeping people at a distance.

There are few things that offend me more than someone, especially a stranger, assuming that I give two ***** what he or she thinks.

 

[ucxb]

I tend to care way too much about what people think and take myself too seriously. I would feel impacted by defensive gestures as well but if you were not doing anything to provoke defensive gestures then try to think of it as not something you've done but as something they have going on in their head, their world, their issues, whatever it may be... You could ask them about it too.

 

[jc89]

It might be that you're actually staring at people while watching for these reactions. Like there's a need to look to confirm what you expect and it's making it worse.

Is there a way to "stare" at someone, even if your eyes are obscured by the back of your head? Because I do anticipate somebody going out of their way to act rude in my presence, which may possibly be reflected in, my body language... but I'm definitely not looking at anyone when this happens.

Like someone else said, I just keep a neutral face. Smiling has its advantages, but it can look conspicuous as well.

It's strange that I have to conduct myself like I'm in North Korea or something, but that's the kind of life I've lived for the past several years.

 

[fox]

Is there a way to "stare" at someone, even if your eyes are obscured by the back of your head? Because I do anticipate somebody going out of their way to act rude in my presence, which may possibly be reflected in, my body language... but I'm definitely not looking at anyone when this happens.

Like someone else said, I just keep a neutral face. Smiling has its advantages, but it can look conspicuous as well.

It's strange that I have to conduct myself like I'm in North Korea or something, but that's the kind of life I've lived for the past several years.

The thing I made bold is very important.. it sounds like it is going in a circle, you anticipate people will act unfriendly, so your body language shows anxiety about it, and then people see your body language and actually act unfriendly. Body language is very important.. even if you make much effort for a neutral face, if always you are anticipating negative things, it can show in many ways, and make people defensive what you might be nervous about.

It can also be some of the time you are too much 'reading in to' it. What you perceive is some one gives you a dirty look, simply it could be some one having a bad day, or remembering a bad memory, or got a glare of sun in their eyes, or just had abdominal discomfort, or smelled a bad smell, or... who knows. Why assume the gesture is because you? Many people walk around completely oblivious of who or what is around them..

It is my own experience, my inside feelings have very much to do with how strangers act to me. The days I am very anxious or depressed, they are not very friendly, because certainly my demeanor is not very friendly either. But in a certain time of my life when my feeling was fine much more consistently, I was very surprised and amazed how more common it was people would sit next to me on train, or ask me for directions, or talk to me. The better mood showed.

I also experienced many times being some place in public and going off in my own thoughts, and then suddenly to realize I been staring at some one without knowing it and horrified I quickly look away. Might they misinterpreted it as me being nasty? It is possible. I know I am not the only person who does such things, and that kind of scenario I heard it pretty common.

Sorry for such a long post.. my point of all this is to say, it really might do you well to try your best to let go of the negative anticipations of other people, and to give people who do seem unfriendly benefit of the doubt. At very least it would be better for your sanity, and in result of it you might also find people starting to act friendlier.

 

[bodafuko]

Try walking down the street and thinking "I am George Clooney. Wait, no I am not. I am better than George Clooney. In fact, George Clooney probably secretly wants to be me. But he can't be because no one can be as fabulous as me." - eventually you will believe it.

 

[perfanoff]

I could never, ever think that way, that I secretly want to be someone else.
Hey, at least I haven't ever had an identity crisis

 

[jc89]

Let me update my post. Letting go of my negative anticipation might be a good idea. I'd love to be more friendly around everyone. But I've tried being friendly and it the same treatment. Except I feel worse because I felt dumb for expecting a pleasant response. Look I'll be honest, I'm in my 30s, I don't really understand fashion or music, and dedicating night and day to find a job (during that time I stopped listening to music or watching TV or going out-- I was just on the Internet, 75% of the time on job sites) may have stunted my social skills a bit. So, do I need to find a "new" way to be friendly? Has there been an update to friendliness that I overlooked while I was staring at job postings all day?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Let me update my post. Letting go of my negative anticipation might be a good idea. I'd love to be more friendly around everyone. But I've tried being friendly and it the same treatment. Except I feel worse because I felt dumb for expecting a pleasant response. Look I'll be honest, I'm in my 30s, I don't really understand fashion or music, and dedicating night and day to find a job (during that time I stopped listening to music or watching TV or going out-- I was just on the Internet, 75% of the time on job sites) may have stunted my social skills a bit. So, do I need to find a "new" way to be friendly? Has there been an update to friendliness that I overlooked while I was staring at job postings all day?

Well, I've been there as well. In the past, I tried to be more friendly and open to others, but I noticed that it didn't work. Why? because I wasn't being myself. I was assuming a different attitude (being friendly, when that trait wasn't part of my personality). I decided not to change myself in order to please other people.

When you're not being yourself, others will perceive that your behavior is not spontaneous and natural. People dislike that, in my opinion.

If society can't accept the way you are, well, f*** them.
You're who you are and, at least, you have a personality. You know who you are. Don't stress about it and try to focus on some other things.

I hope this was of use.

 

[ucxb]

I agree with Gondwana, being your self is the legit way to be.

So, do I need to find a "new" way to be friendly? Has there been an update to friendliness that I overlooked while I was staring at job postings all day?

I can relate to this. I lived reclusively and still do, the difference now (or past year) is that I live alone. Trying to break that way of living is difficult and trying to find a means to be social is also. In my limited social endeavors I have picked up that "friend" is a loosely used word nowadays. I feel the value of friendship is diminishing a little bit too. I feel that when I do meet someone and possibley make friends that I will need to discuss what "friend" means to them first :|