Unattractive

[TheRealCallie]

Or maybe women just don't want men who clearly have a disdain for women and think they are all shallow as hell.

 

[okidoke]

Okay, so you’re ugly. Nobody wants to be with you. You’ll never have a relationship. You actually repel people, so no need to worry about how you’d attract anyone. You’ll be alone forever. So what now?

 

[sub5male]

Okay, so you’re ugly. Nobody wants to be with you. You’ll never have a relationship. You actually repel people, so no need to worry about how you’d attract anyone. You’ll be alone forever. So what now?

I appreciate your accurate assessment of my circumstances, though I don't have any issues with women on a casual basis. Not much I can do but pass the time the best I can until the inevitable.

 

[okidoke]

I appreciate your accurate assessment of my circumstances, though I don't have any issues with women on a casual basis. Not much I can do but pass the time the best I can until the inevitable.

That wasn’t specific to you. Just whoever sees it that way.

 

[sub5male]

The funny thing is that the better looking a man is the more women will allow him to be a jerk or a$$hole and still greatly desire him. Likewise, it does not matter what an undesirable man says or does, how nice, kind or toxic he may be-women will not be attracted to him regardless.

 

[sub5male]

That wasn’t specific to you. Just whoever sees it that way.

My apologies-your statement was so accurate to my life that I assumed it was specifically directed at me.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Anyone have a shovel? The honeysuckle's getting deep in here.....

 

[user 139760]

Y'all know attraction is subjective right?
@sub5male , how do you explain all the not rich, short, bald men with plain faces dating gorgeous girls? Random luck, black masses, deal with a crossroads demon, alien brainwashing?
Or you know...maybe they actually grew some balls, just talked to the cute girl instead of hanging around internet forums crying everywhich way to the seven heavens how royally screwed they always will be?
Obviously you seem real content with your situation, because you're unwilling to even try to change it, just saying the same things over and over again. You should look up what the definition of insanity is. You're building your own pillory and setting your own self on fire.
Not bad.
I guess it saves time for everyone. I'm not just adressing this to you, I don't want to come off TOO much as a jerk or a bully (but I am), but I don't get you people. You are so damned defeatist and unable to cope with rejection. Even the slightest inkling of criticism or rejection sends you on a downward spiral of self-loathing. Don't you have any pride in yourselves? I mean, dear god, show some toxic damn masculinity at some point, at least when it comes to self-worth.
Also, you gotta get it into your thick skulls that NOTHING lasts forever and that you get the results according to the efforts you put in. I'm staking none of you have put enough effort into it or you'd have the results to show for it.
You think you did?
NO. You haven't.
I'm a joe schmuck who's not different from anyone of you. I'm considered rather plain, with good features and bad ones. If I can do it? A hairy three foot monkey in a dinosaur suit can.
Stop finding excuses, kick your own ***** and do something instead of finding reasons to NOT do something.

 

[sub5male]

Y'all know attraction is subjective right?
@sub5male , how do you explain all the not rich, short, bald men with plain faces dating gorgeous girls? Random luck, black masses, deal with a crossroads demon, alien brainwashing?
Or you know...maybe they actually grew some balls, just talked to the cute girl instead of hanging around internet forums crying everywhich way to the seven heavens how royally screwed they always will be?
Obviously you seem real content with your situation, because you're unwilling to even try to change it, just saying the same things over and over again. You should look up what the definition of insanity is. You're building your own pillory and setting your own self on fire.
Not bad.
I guess it saves time for everyone. I'm not just adressing this to you, I don't want to come off TOO much as a jerk or a bully (but I am), but I don't get you people. You are so damned defeatist and unable to cope with rejection. Even the slightest inkling of criticism or rejection sends you on a downward spiral of self-loathing. Don't you have any pride in yourselves? I mean, dear god, show some toxic **** masculinity at some point, at least when it comes to self-worth.
Also, you gotta get it into your thick skulls that NOTHING lasts forever and that you get the results according to the efforts you put in. I'm staking none of you have put enough effort into it or you'd have the results to show for it.
You think you did?
NO. You haven't.
I'm a joe schmuck who's not different from anyone of you. I'm considered rather plain, with good features and bad ones. If I can do it? A hairy three foot monkey in a dinosaur suit can.
Stop finding excuses, kick your own ***** and do something instead of finding reasons to NOT do something.

Lots of basless assumptions & fallacies on your part so I will try and address them:

"how do you explain all the not rich, short, bald men with plain faces dating gorgeous girls?"
They are interested in their $, not the men themselves.

"maybe they actually grew some balls, just talked to the cute girl instead of hanging around internet forums"
You are assuming that this was not already done (in my case for over 5 years) but it has always yielded zero results.

"Obviously you seem real content with your situation, because you're unwilling to even try to change it"
So what happens when a person has indeed tried everything yet still experienced total failure? that is the situation I am in. I HAVE tried everything for going on 7 years and have zero to show for it.

"Even the slightest inkling of criticism or rejection sends you on a downward spiral of self-loathing."
Incorrect again. It's not this rejection or that rejection but the total rejections over many years which prove how unattractive women find me.

"You are so damned defeatist and unable to cope with rejection."
So what is the best way to handle total rejection for over half a decade? If I were going on dates & failing that would be one thing but I have not had even a single bit of affection from a women in close to 10 years. That's not being defeatist-that's being realistic.

"Don't you have any pride in yourselves?"
Would not the fact that I spend tremendous time & effort being as physically fit as I can indicate showing pride & self worth? The women I have asked out are the one's who find me worthless when it comes to dating or relationships.

"You should look up what the definition of insanity is."
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? That applies to being rejected over and over again while continuing to expecting to expect success at some point too.

"You're building your own pillory and setting your own self on fire."
Or perhaps I and others are just too physically unattractive for women to ever be interested in us.

"you get the results according to the efforts you put in."
This is patently false and indicates a strong Just World fallacy on your part. The truth is that everything comes down to chance so effort has very little to do with success. An attractive man can put in zero effort and still have great success with women while a sub 5 like myself can do everything under the sun and still fail completely, as I have.

 

[user 139760]

Lots of basless assumptions & fallacies on your part so I will try and address them:

"how do you explain all the not rich, short, bald men with plain faces dating gorgeous girls?"
They are interested in their $, not the men themselves.

"maybe they actually grew some balls, just talked to the cute girl instead of hanging around internet forums"
You are assuming that this was not already done (in my case for over 5 years) but it has always yielded zero results.

"Obviously you seem real content with your situation, because you're unwilling to even try to change it"
So what happens when a person has indeed tried everything yet still experienced total failure? that is the situation I am in. I HAVE tried everything for going on 7 years and have zero to show for it.

"Even the slightest inkling of criticism or rejection sends you on a downward spiral of self-loathing."
Incorrect again. It's not this rejection or that rejection but the total rejections over many years which prove how unattractive women find me.

"You are so damned defeatist and unable to cope with rejection."
So what is the best way to handle total rejection for over half a decade? If I were going on dates & failing that would be one thing but I have not had even a single bit of affection from a women in close to 10 years. That's not being defeatist-that's being realistic.

"Don't you have any pride in yourselves?"
Would not the fact that I spend tremendous time & effort being as physically fit as I can indicate showing pride & self worth? The women I have asked out are the one's who find me worthless when it comes to dating or relationships.

"You should look up what the definition of insanity is."
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? That applies to being rejected over and over again while continuing to expecting to expect success at some point too.

"You're building your own pillory and setting your own self on fire."
Or perhaps I and others are just too physically unattractive for women to ever be interested in us.

"you get the results according to the efforts you put in."
This is patently false and indicates a strong Just World fallacy on your part. The truth is that everything comes down to chance so effort has very little to do with success. An attractive man can put in zero effort and still have great success with women while a sub 5 like myself can do everything under the sun and still fail completely, as I have.

Sorry, I don't speak Incel.
I'm also not going to address your inane, ludicrous and completely biased opinions, because it won't matter. You'll stick to your guns until your situation changes. And it will.
I hope you'll think back on it and realize what a dope you are. Doubtful, but hey, apparently Jeezuz works miracles sometimes.

 

[michael2]

The error in your thinking is that by becoming less unattractive, a man then becomes attractive but this is not true. I have a gym body and am around 10% BF but my level of fitness has not helped me in the least as far as women goes. Don't get me wrong-self improvement is important for other reasons but it will not help a below average man become average or above so really as far as dating goes is only valuable for average & above men.

Being well groomed & dressing well is also not a factor for ugly men any more than putting a fancy ribbion on a pile of dog poop makes it better to look at. The combination of being facially unattractive along with being short & bald is a death scentence for a man in the western world.

It won't give you an attractive face. But you will become more attractive then other unattractive people. And unattractive people make up the majority of the population. So your doing quite well if your better then the majority.

The sad matter of the fact is yes, you still probably won't be shown interest as much as person with a beautiful face. But if you approach someone they will be more receptive to you.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Y'all know attraction is subjective right?
@sub5male , how do you explain all the not rich, short, bald men with plain faces dating gorgeous girls? Random luck, black masses, deal with a crossroads demon, alien brainwashing?

Is this a rhetorical question? It's obviously the demons.

Luckily there's an easy answer for that...bury the bones, salt the earth, and you're good to go.

I tried to cut a deal with the demons but they were like "no way, Jose".

@sub5male before this gets any worse, why not try other ways to get somewhere with someone?
You already said you are in good shape, so that's a point in your favor.
I'm going to assume you also keep yourself groomed and clean and all that too.

Could the problem be the type of women you're going for?
Maybe they don't have enough common interests?

I don't know, I'm just trying to throw some guesses out.
Cause I see how some folks are saying that you're saying the same things over and over, but at the same time I also see how you feel cause I felt similarly before.

For me, my problems are needing to recover from getting off course in life, needing to get good at something, needing to have more interesting ideas, and it wouldn't hurt to have some muscle.

I don't know what to do about charisma and banter, I'm not really good at sarcasm and quick thinking, I was never into teasing people much, I don't have a naturally aggressive competitive dominant personality. I'm more on the shy side.

But that's me. Like Richard said, I don't think your height is the trouble, though. I've seen short guys with girlfriends too, so I don't think height holds people back except with very shallow people.

 

[Running Alone]

The funny thing is that the better looking a man is the more women will allow him to be a jerk or a$$hole and still greatly desire him. Likewise, it does not matter what an undesirable man says or does, how nice, kind or toxic he may be-women will not be attracted to him regardless.

We are on the same page it seems, finding myself nodding in agreement with many of your points as I experience the same things. Oddly enough, I'm also extremely fit, always have been (life long marathon runner), 5' 10", 150#, shredded physique - not bad at 55 yrs if I can brag just a second. Full, thick head of hair as well even, very blessed in a couple of ways. But sadly that's it - I still have the face of a mackerel, way below average, long, narrow face/features, poor teeth/smile, huge ears, etc (think if screech and gilligan had a basta@rd child), all things I've often heard women say are their biggest turn offs (when it comes to above the neck). I'm okay with that, seriously, none of us get to pick our parents, we just work with what life gave us (or doesn't sadly). I admit in my worst moments though, I do sometimes wonder if the many women friends in my life feel sorry for me (to a degree) and spend time with me because, well, they're kind, good people. I'm okay with that if true, I enjoy the companionship and it's better than nothing! I'm also borderline poor, below average earner anyway, I own a tiny home in the sticks, drive an average car, etc, stuff that doesn't exactly make up for my short comings in the eyes of single women.

I also always try to place my best foot forward around women, ALWAYS, even when I know I have no shot - nature still tells me "you never know". Go out well groomed, a tidy dresser, as relaxed as could be when talking, make eye contact, a good listener, and on and on. Like I said, I have a ton of amazing friends, many females. My face is just something only a mother could love. Again tho, it's no biggie. I embrace it and am still living an amazing life. Tomorrow morning I'm going for a run with two awesome women and then we'll all have breakfast. Tomorrow night I'm meeting another women to watch an early fireworks show with our dogs and other friends, probably grab a dinner too. Sunday I'm going kayaking with a mess of folks, several great women as well again, etc, etc. And it's like that for me practically year round, all the time, for as long as I can remember. I'm living a charmed life really compared to some that REALLY have it bad. Just zero romance to speak of...and rarely ever have. What is the one constant variable? Yep. That face I was cursed with. Spare me the "your attitude sucks" rubbish to anyone thinking that. I'm only bitching here to make a point. In my actually time around women I'm as normal as could be. Relaxed, exude a hint confidence without smugness or arrogance, christian minded mentality, somewhat funny lol, dare I say it, I'm almost smooooth, etc. But never any luck. Some of us just were not meant to find a mate. It's tough but that's nature doing its thing.

Just for a goof - I'll share another few words about something it seems I happen to agree with. I have another dear lady friend that just left her husband recently so she could be with some d-b@g she met at the gym. In fact, they'll be kayaking with us on sunday. Ok, she's not perfect for leaving her husband of nearly 30 years, but it happens I suppose. This guy she's now with is a real piece of work. He's a player, obnoxious, juvenile and self obsessed, etc, a real jerk (everyone keeps him at arms distance and feels this way, not merely me), he's been divorced 4 times already and he's my age lol. Yet she's all over him like poop on s#!t paper. Why? Cause he's been blessed with raw, stud muffin looks, a stupidly handsome dude with money. Don't friggin' try to convince me looks don't matter much lol (to the folks here asking "how does one explain the short, balding, homely guys with hot women?"....erm, we never said it doesn't happen, it's simply not the norm, not by a long shot), I'll never buy that load of nonsense. It's an old cliche and more or less something folks just like to say in social situations, etc, because, well, it sounds nice and nobody likes to appear shallow, etc.

Have a great weekend, friends! I sure am!!!

 

[sub5male]

Sorry, I don't speak Incel.
I'm also not going to address your inane, ludicrous and completely biased opinions, because it won't matter. You'll stick to your guns until your situation changes. And it will.
I hope you'll think back on it and realize what a dope you are. Doubtful, but hey, apparently Jeezuz works miracles sometimes.

So it seems that you are adverse to logic and reason so prefer the bliss of delusion to that of hard reality-fair enough. What about all of the other men on this board who have had very similar experiences to mine-would you also consider them "dopes" too?

I find it quite interesting that people like you are so emotionally triggered by the fact that men can actual fail regardless of our efforts that they stoop to insults & pejoratives. It is similar to the reaction of evangelical theists when they are presented with arguments which prove their faith is based on fantasy with no basis in reality. Some people are simply unable or unwilling to accept that life can sometimes indeed suck regardless of what one does to prevent it. As I stated in a previous thread, the wealthy can never relate to the impoverished and the well fed will never understand the chronically hungry.

Btw, I assume what you claimed about effort in regards to my situtation also applies to all of the people here who are lonely too? According to you, they all have failed to find connections due to not working hard enough so if they just put in the effort they could all find friendships and the reasons why they have failed has to do with their "inane, ludicrous and completely baised opinions" and their poor attitudes? In fact, if your life is so wonderful I can't help but wonder why you are even here at all?

 

[sub5male]

We are on the same page it seems, finding myself nodding in agreement with many of your points as I experience the same things. Oddly enough, I'm also extremely fit, always have been (life long marathon runner), 5' 10", 150#, shredded physique - not bad at 55 yrs if I can brag just a second. Full, thick head of hair as well even, very blessed in a couple of ways. But sadly that's it - I still have the face of a mackerel, way below average, long, narrow face/features, poor teeth/smile, huge ears, etc (think if screech and gilligan had a basta@rd child), all things I've often heard women say are their biggest turn offs (when it comes to above the neck). I'm okay with that, seriously, none of us get to pick our parents, we just work with what life gave us (or doesn't sadly). I admit in my worst moments though, I do sometimes wonder if the many women friends in my life feel sorry for me (to a degree) and spend time with me because, well, they're kind, good people. I'm okay with that if true, I enjoy the companionship and it's better than nothing! I'm also borderline poor, below average earner anyway, I own a tiny home in sticks, drive an average car, etc, stuff that doesn't exactly make up for my short comings in the eyes of single women.

I also always try to place my best foot forward around women, ALWAYS, even when I know I have no shot - nature still tells me "you never know". Go out well groomed, a tidy dresser, as relaxed as could be when talking, make eye contact, a good listener, and on and on. Like I said, I have a ton of amazing friends, many females. The face is just something only a mother could love. Again tho, it's no biggie. I embrace it and am still living an amazing life. Tomorrow morning I'm going for a run with two awesome women and then we'll all have breakfast. Tomorrow night I'm meeting another women to watch an early fireworks show with our dogs and other friends, probably grab a dinner too. Sunday I'm going kayaking with a mess of folks, several great women as well again, etc, etc. And it's like that for me practically year round, all the time, for as long as I can remember. I'm living a charmed life really compared to some that REALLY have it bad. Just zero romance to speak of...and rarely ever have. What is the one constant variable? Yep. That face I was cursed with. Spare me the "your attitude sucks" rubbish to anyone thinking that. I'm only bitching here to make a point. In my actually time around women I'm as normal as could be. Relaxed, exude a hint confidence without smugness or arrogance, christian minded mentality, somewhat funny lol, dare I say it, I'm almost smooooth, etc. But never any luck. Some of us just were not meant to find a mate. It's tough but that's nature doing its thing.

Just for a goof - I'll share another few words about something it seems I happen to agree with others here on. I have another dear lady friend that just left her husband recently to be with some d-b@g she met at the gym. In fact, they'll be kayaking with us on sunday. He's a player, obnoxious, juvenile and self obsessed, a real jerk (everyone keeps him at arms distance and feels this way, not merely me), he's been divorced 4 times already and he's my age lol. Yet she's all over him like poop on s#!t paper. Why? Cause he's been blessed with raw, stud muffin looks, a stupidly handsome dude with money. Don't friggin' try to convince me looks don't matter much lol (to the folks here asking "how does one explain the short, balding, homely guys with hot women?"....erm, we never said it doesn't happen, it's simply not the norm, not by a long shot), I'll never buy that load of nonsense. It's an old cliche and more or less something folks just like to say in social situations, etc, because, well, it sounds nice and nobody likes to appear shallow, etc.

Have a great weekend, friends! I sure am!!!

Thanks for relating you story-many of us here seem to be in the same boat so it's great that you have found some copes to help deal with it.

I truly feel that one has to actually experience it to understand-hence all of the triggered, vitriolic responses from those who cannot or refuse to relate to how bad the life of an unattractive man can be and that men below a certain attractiveness level are going to find dating virtually impossible- regardless of how much effort we put in or whatever else we may have to offer. At least you are 5'10 though-the 4 inch difference between us is a game changer so perhaps you still do have a chance. Even older women are pretty much disgusted by men like myself under the average male height.

 

[TheRealCallie]

In fact, if your life is so wonderful I can't help but wonder why you are even here at all?

ANYONE can be here (It's a public forum) and their reasons for being here are none of your business.

Exactly how far is that stick wedged up there?

 

[user 139760]

So it seems that you are adverse to logic and reason so prefer the bliss of delusion to that of hard reality-fair enough. What about all of the other men on this board who have had very similar experiences to mine-would you also consider them "dopes" too?

I find it quite interesting that people like you are so emotionally triggered by the fact that men can actual fail regardless of our efforts that they stoop to insults & pejoratives. It is similar to the reaction of evangelical theists when they are presented with arguments which prove their faith is based on fantasy with no basis in reality. Some people are simply unable or unwilling to accept that life can sometimes indeed suck regardless of what one does to prevent it. As I stated in a previous thread, the wealthy can never relate to the impoverished and the well fed will never understand the chronically hungry.

Btw, I assume what you claimed about effort in regards to my situtation also applies to all of the people here who are lonely too? According to you, they all have failed to find connections due to not working hard enough so if they just put in the effort they could all find friendships and the reasons why they have failed has to do with their "inane, ludicrous and completely baised opinions" and their poor attitudes? In fact, if your life is so wonderful I can't help but wonder why you are even here at all?

My daughters got ***** by the man who was their stepfather, who I helped send to a Fed pen. My oldest, unbeknownst to us all including herself, was ***** in her sleep at 13, got pregnant and when we all learned of it, was too late for an abortion, so the child was born and sent to be adopted, for her own safety. Because the dirt bag's family tried to have rights on the child. His excuse in court was he wasn't getting enough *** from my ex.
The man is now free and, if he knows what's good for him, will stay as far away from me as humanly possible.
Got any other ASSumptions?

You get now why men bitching they got it hard pisses me off, or should I draw you a picture?
You have ZERO clue.
At least have the decency to keep your ridiculous assumptions to yourself. You've no idea, NO idea, how hard life is. You just think you do. Before speaking, try to put yourself in a woman's shoes for four bloody seconds. Maybe you'll learn something.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Unfortunately, Sub5male, I'm in the same boat. 30, muscular physique, socially outgoing, funny, decent job, no debt, but I've never been able to get a girlfriend. I would say I get teased for being ugly about 2-3 times a month, every month, for as long as I can remember. Going to the gym and achieving a decent physique has not really benefitted me in dating, I only get compliments from other dudes. I've got no issue talking to women, asking people out, am fairly laid back around people, yet for some reason I cannot understand, I have had zero interest in me throughout my lifetime. So really, you're not the only one.

 

[okidoke]

Unfortunately, Sub5male, I'm in the same boat. 30, muscular physique, socially outgoing, funny, decent job, no debt, but I've never been able to get a girlfriend. I would say I get teased for being ugly about 2-3 times a month, every month, for as long as I can remember. Going to the gym and achieving a decent physique has not really benefitted me in dating, I only get compliments from other dudes. I've got no issue talking to women, asking people out, am fairly laid back around people, yet for some reason I cannot understand, I have had zero interest in me throughout my lifetime. So really, you're not the only one.

Let's get something straight here, I guarantee 99.9% of women don't give a cr*p about men's muscular physiques. Thinking you'll attract a women due to your muscular physique is a waste of time. Go to the gym to improve your health, that's all. Don't do it for any other reason. What environment are you in where you actually "get teased for being ugly"? Sounds like playground behaviour. As for the "zero interest" that's only as far as you are aware. I went through high-school not even realising that several girls were into me and I couldn't really get a girlfriend because I totally overlooked them because I had higher expectations, higher standards or just ran in different circles.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Let's get something straight here, I guarantee 99.9% of women don't give a cr*p about men's muscular physiques. Thinking you'll attract a women due to your muscular physique is a waste of time. Go to the gym to improve your health, that's all. Don't do it for any other reason. What environment are you in where you actually "get teased for being ugly"? Sounds like playground behaviour. As for the "zero interest" that's only as far as you are aware. I went through high-school not even realising that several girls were into me and I couldn't really get a girlfriend because I totally overlooked them because I had higher expectations, higher standards or just ran in different circles.

Ehh, it's one of those things. I spent my teen years fairly skinny, with literally every girl and friend telling me to go to the gym to look better. I spend a few years doing that and... tumbleweed. Women swoon over good physiques, it's purely evolutionary. That's not to say it's the only thing women care about, or that they're sitting at home strumming it to Muscle & Fitness, but it is the Number 1 thing guys are told to do, by women.

As far as me being teased for being ugly? It's fairly common. Sometimes it will be in bars, other times it will be on the street, occasionally someone will yell it from a passing car. When I lived in my first house-share I overheard several of my housemates talking about it. Just last weekend I had a girl in my friendship group, I have asked another girl to see what she thought of me; the report came back "he's a nice guy, but eww, no way!"