What has been said to you about your singledom?

[user 115627]

Most comments came from grandparental side and they always were along the lines of:
- "So when are you gonna bring someone around?"
- "Oh, he'll find a nice girl someday..."
- "Do you have any friends in [insert current place of residence]?"

Within the family I've never been outspoken about my mindset, so I always smile and brush these comments off. It would only cause issues to say that I am not looking for company and certainly not for an easy fix for something I don't even consider a problem or worry. Luckily we got no "matchmakers" among the family.

I've been following the conversation up there. I can only speak for myself here, but if being an "alpha male" is somehow crucial for attracting a particular group of women, maybe even the majority since it's oh-so-natural, I still wouldn't play ball. Improving yourself and having mental strength is all fair and square, but if someone really rejects you by saying you are not confident, assertive or man enough...hell, I would bail. I got my own set of standards and if I don't fulfill someone else's criterias or image of a "real man"...well, what a shame. I could care less.

We can't be strong at all times - yeah, not even men. In some circles it is expected that the man always knows the answers and always give direction. These are not the circles I would want to live in and certainly not a relationship I would want to find myself in. Not cause I couldn't do it in case it was necessary...but because I don't want anyone to expect it of me just because I was born with different chromosomes.

 

[matt4]

It's subconcious. The majority of women do not know/admit they select partners along these lines. It's the same for men too.

You won't have someone say your not alpha enough. Someone may say you lack confidence but they unlikely to say you lack masculinity.

Course we can't be strong all the time. We are just all animals and have feelings! Everyone understands that but in the early phases of dating/executing approaches if you aren't showing yourself to be strong but an emotional/mental mess then that's curtains for you. Nearly everyone seeks some amount of stability, in general terms.

Men can be in touch with their emotional sides at appropiate points into a relationship but simply starting out very emotive and intense with a women will put her off. No matter how much you do like her. Got to be strong and resist.

I've demasculated myself enough times by being very emotive and instense. It's a strange situation because the woman is expecting herself to take the lead here and the guy to open up later on. I can only thing it's yet another reason why there has been no success yet

 

[LonelySutton]

One of the things that is always painful for me... is when someone who is very well meaning and oblivious says something to me *like before mother's day" like "happy mother's day"... err...

In one way, it seems like a compliment as they are presuming I am capable of having that great life with kids. But in another it is so awkward to be like, "um don't have kids and my mom is dead." so um..

Which typically to them is completely unfathomable.

 

[user 115627]

Then what are men subconsciously looking for? I sure hope it's not just a submissive, patient, caring and child-bearing homemaker. While that might be true for some, I have the firm belief that at least some of us have evolved beyond that. Our current state of civilization allows it at least.

I find it very likely that a woman actually tells a man he lacks masculinity and that a man tells a woman she is not feminine enough. If people want to play in these old-fashioned categories, so be it. But that's just on a side note.

From my point of view, any reasonable men would not look for an overly emotional or potentially unstable woman either...unless he wants to "save" her from her misery because he believes that all she needs is his love. From that starting point both are usually riding on a road to ruin and the evolving relationships can be quite toxic for either party.

What I really want to say is...I do not want to succumb to these supposedly given circumstances and I would advise everyone to do the same. You can always tell yourself it's all natural and that you need to reach a certain confidence level, but I really gotta wonder when you reach the state where you finally find yourself to be good enough for...who exactly? For yourself or the image of the subconsciously guided opposite gender you've drawn for yourself?

 

[Xpendable]

Then what are men subconsciously looking for? I sure hope it's not just a submissive, patient, caring and child-bearing homemaker. While that might be true for some, I have the firm belief that at least some of us have evolved beyond that. Our current state of civilization allows it at least.

I think it goes to a point in which we just want someone who accept us. I've said before I would like to meet someone different from the norm, but that's just a wild dream. Us who post here don't have the privilege of choosing the person we wish as a possible lover. So it doesn't matter how beyond we are above the traditional spectrum, the rules of undesirability are the same.

I find it very likely that a woman actually tells a man he lacks masculinity and that a man tells a woman she is not feminine enough. If people want to play in these old-fashioned categories, so be it. But that's just on a side note.

The main conflict of arguments about preference come in this distinction. The "old-fashioned categories" you name can be debated in depth as the root of the problem. The way I learned is that sexual or emotional preference can never be just a side note. Men and women would always downplay their own shallowness in fear of social judgement. Even to the point of actually believe they have overcome this factor. Now, that's a real social category. A woman may be confused around a non-masculine man, she would try to find some sort of behavior or response from her part to adapt to the situation. These masculine traits are not created in a spark of social conditioning, but they come from millions of years of evolution. A woman may not hate a man who fails biologicaly, but deep inside her brain, his lack of masculine traits have an effect on how she sees him.

From my point of view, any reasonable men would not look for an overly emotional or potentially unstable woman either...unless he wants to "save" her from her misery because he believes that all she needs is his love. From that starting point both are usually riding on a road to ruin and the evolving relationships can be quite toxic for either party.

Sometimes the "overly emotional or potentially unstable woman" don't want us anyway. And we can be very reasonable. I often wonder how many people would choose between a life with zero relationships or a life with just bad relationships.

What I really want to say is...I do not want to succumb to these supposedly given circumstances and I would advise everyone to do the same.

That's the tragedy of the homo sapiens. We realize the circumstances are rigid and pretend we don't care. The only advantage or our brains is to be able to reflect in this fact. We realize that the animalistic chains that hold us in the foundations of our behavior are there, but we try to deny how much they rule us. Consciousness gave us an understanding of were our needs come from, but didn't make us able to change them.

You can always tell yourself it's all natural and that you need to reach a certain confidence level, but I really gotta wonder when you reach the state where you finally find yourself to be good enough for...who exactly? For yourself or the image of the subconsciously guided opposite gender you've drawn for yourself?

That's an interesting question. There's a really cruel reflection coming from that spiel. Society lecture us to improve once and again ad nauseum, without acknowledging that if the direction we choose to improve comes from objectively good purposes. Is and endless loop of self-fulfilling condescendence. If you keep improving but get no result is because you you haven't really improve enough. If you fail is your fault and if you give up is your fault too. Society prefers to put the blame on how you follow their instructions rather to maybe, and just maybe! consider that their design may be flawed. To them, the possibility of you doing everything right and still fail it's impossible. Because it would mean to have to address very painful and harsh constructions inside the system they defend.

Believe me when I tell you that many lonely men would choose an adequate woman before and idealization if she came first. This even with all the "improvement" they could have done previously. Because men like us, who have followed the rules imposed by the system, have come to understand that we are tied to remain silent in every outcome. If you aren't good enough you have no right to complain. But if you are in fact good enough, you can't complain either because that would make you arrogant and bitter. Because a person deserving of a relationship never should complain and never should question the status quo. A person deserving of a relationship should never experience injustice, rejection, mockery or envy. A person deserving of a relationship should never see him/herself morally above others even when he/she is. A person deserving of a relationship always will have a relationship, because the system is perfect and you'll never be; specially if you question the system.

 

[TheRealCallie]

It's subconcious. The majority of women do not know/admit they select partners along these lines. It's the same for men too.

Yeah, sorry, if an "alpha" male tries to date me, I'd kick his alpha ass out the ******* door. No thanks, m'kay?

Men can be in touch with their emotional sides at appropiate points into a relationship but simply starting out very emotive and intense with a women will put her off. No matter how much you do like her. Got to be strong and resist.

Um, sorry, but that applies to BOTH genders.

 

[matt4]

It's subconcious. The majority of women do not know/admit they select partners along these lines. It's the same for men too.

Yeah, sorry, if an "alpha" male tries to date me, I'd kick his alpha ass out the ******* door. No thanks, m'kay?

Men can be in touch with their emotional sides at appropiate points into a relationship but simply starting out very emotive and intense with a women will put her off. No matter how much you do like her. Got to be strong and resist.

Um, sorry, but that applies to BOTH genders.

Lordy. An "alpha male" doesn't have a label. He won't tell you he is one. He doesn't even most likely know he is one (unless he understands biology). He just looks like a male human.

Indeed it does to an extent. However a hetrosexual female by nature looks for masculinity in her mate. That doesn't mean no emotion on his part. What it does mean is not swapping gender roles. Such as being more emotionally needy then the female, especially in the early stages of dating. This normally will put you out of reach of anything and relaguate you to the friendzone.

We can all act like we've shaken off things that have evolved through time. These instincts are animal instincts. Often when they are out of place (which sometimes happens) things go of in different directions. For the majority of the world, though these hold true.

 

[Cataplasme]

Oh god, now he's speaking about the friendzone. Run ladies run !

 

[mintymint]

Oh god, now he's speaking about the friendzone. Run ladies run !

I hate that term.

 

[Xpendable]

[...]This normally will put you out of reach of anything and relaguate you to the friendzone.

Don't use this terms. Not because it necessarily makes you wrong, but because is triggers automated prefabricated responses carefully designed to dismiss anything you say after; independent of the arguments you can make.

 

[Cataplasme]

[...]This normally will put you out of reach of anything and relaguate you to the friendzone.

Don't use this terms. Not because it necessarily makes you wrong, but because is triggers automated prefabricated responses carefully designed to dismiss anything you say after; independent of the arguments you can make.

Which is funny because he carefully avoid our arguments where we pointed it is not exclusive to what heterosexual women want and how being mentally strong is important regardless and same for being shy. But here he is still going... blindly.

 

[Xpendable]

Which is funny because he carefully avoid our arguments where we pointed it is not exclusive to what heterosexual women want and how being mentally strong is important regardless and same for being shy. But here he is still going... blindly.

I just said what those terms cause, not that he wasn't wrong before.

Also, are you sure you argued or just pointed out an statement about what women want?

And who decides what counts as mentally strong?

 

[Cataplasme]

Which is funny because he carefully avoid our arguments where we pointed it is not exclusive to what heterosexual women want and how being mentally strong is important regardless and same for being shy. But here he is still going... blindly.

I just said what those terms cause, not that he wasn't wrong before.

Also, are you sure you argued or just pointed out an statement about what women want?

And who decides what counts as mentally strong?

He is the one who pointed a statement about what women wants and we didn't agree with them which is why we used arguments. Because it's what civilized and intelligent persons do to explain why they think the other person is wrong.
But he kept on saying the same things leaving what we said behind and keeping on repeating the same things.

Also why do you ask me this question ? He is the one who said that. Yes, who decides ? So who Matt can make such statement then ?

Sincerely this is getting annoying. Because Matt will keep on repeating the same things no matter what we can say and you will ask and say irrelevant things to "support" him like you want to trick us showing we are not "smart" or don't know what we are saying so what we say is incorrect. I find that intellectually dishonest.

 

[matt4]

Your reading between the lines Cataplasme. I have stated before that both sexes do have natural preferences that for the most part cannot be changed because they are part of our subconcious. Of course a male wants someone mentally strong too. The point I was making is that women are natural terms of dating to assume a more emotional role early on. Imagine a man assuming a very emotional role early on. This sort of thing does lead to the woman freaking out, it's like a role swap and then she begins thinking of you only in terms of a friend. If that at all.

Being in touch with your emotions is very important if you are a man but it's so often done at the wrong times.

Btw, I don't understand what your trying to say? I have said that being shy is a disadvantage. Whether male or female. Especially as a male being shy is less likely to assert himself. Go for opportunities in the dating sense.

And who decides what counts as mentally strong?

Usually the other person in dating terms

 

[Cataplasme]

Then why you keep on repeating multiple time "it is what heterosexual women want" ?
You did say both sexes have natural preferences or "I wouldn't act differently" but you are intellectually dishonest because you will repeat right away "women want that", "men have to be like that". And you just did it again !
What a cliché way to see men and women and how wrong it is. That has nothing to do with natural preferences but how some taught their children to act according gender cliché, such as "men don't cry", "women have to be delicate" etc.

Which just make me think you are trying to be with a certain type of women who are certainly responding the cliché of what "a woman wants in a man and how a man should be", probably because they have been raise to think this way and never succeed to get over those cliché and start to think by themselves. Then why would you want to date that type of person ? Probably because you are part of them.

The problem is people raising their children to think like you do saying it's natural for women/men to prefer that. NO. It is a misconception to say a man shouldn't have a very emotional role and women don't like that. Why does it even mean ?
There is not role swap, I don't believe "naturally" a woman has the emotional role in the couple and the man another role. It's not like that, it's way more complex. And what it would be for homosexual couple then ?

To me everything you say show how cliché and with duality you see men and women and you pretend it's the nature when really it's not.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Lordy. An "alpha male" doesn't have a label. He won't tell you he is one. He doesn't even most likely know he is one (unless he understands biology). He just looks like a male human.

Lol, that's funny, he doesn't HAVE to tell me. I've seen and known enough "alpha" males, that I think I can spot one in a crowd.

 

[matt4]

Its biology and evolution.

Emotionally needy men do struggle to get into relationships or in them. Past experience and google.

That is a gender cliché saying men don’t cry etc but you have swung what I was actually saying out of context. Of course men cry in relationships, of course we have emotions but when we date those need to hidden to a large extent. Until we at least in a relationship!

I said these things are natural and nothing that can be told. Why do we see so many confident men, who are able to lead, with attractive women? because it’s a natural turn on.
Most of the women in this category are more stable/aren’t shy. I wouldn’t think of being in a relationship with an emotionally cold woman. Males want to be loved too, again this has evolved through humanity.

The sort of dating advice you would give is incorrect. Can you imagine a guy going on two dates or so with someone and being emotionally very intense? It is off-putting for a woman. Being decisive taking the lead, self-assured and being able to put her at ease in the early days are what matters. As are being polite and respectful but those are different traits not necessarily the same we are talking of here.

It is a role swap. It’s generally unattractive for hetrosexuals. Yes, some homosexuals do engage in role swapping and are more tolerant of it. Gender roles also do shift over time but they always exist.

Homosexuality is a natural thing. Other species are homosexual too
.
TheRealCallie, Congratulations! Not many people can

For others here’s how you may spot one - http://uk.askmen.com/money/career_400/471_are-you-an-alpha-male-or-a-bully.html

Some signs if you are male and wondering if you one:

http://uk.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-signs-youre-not-an-alpha-male.html

 

[user 115627]

I think it goes to a point in which we just want someone who accept us. I've said before I would like to meet someone different from the norm, but that's just a wild dream. Us who post here don't have the privilege of choosing the person we wish as a possible lover. So it doesn't matter how beyond we are above the traditional spectrum, the rules of undesirability are the same.

To keep trying still seems like a better option than resorting to accept the brand mark of the unprivileged who's not even allowed to choose. I can understand where you're coming from, but honestly: If you shove yourself into the undesirable category, your ride is over for good. You might be so hellbent on experiencing a relationship that you would take anything you can get...and in case you get it, you might not let it go anymore. And that can get quite nasty. You might dive headfirst into something toxic while adding your own note of toxicity to this rooted in your feelings of inadequacy.

The main conflict of arguments about preference come in this distinction. The "old-fashioned categories" you name can be debated in depth as the root of the problem. The way I learned is that sexual or emotional preference can never be just a side note. Men and women would always downplay their own shallowness in fear of social judgement. Even to the point of actually believe they have overcome this factor. Now, that's a real social category. A woman may be confused around a non-masculine man, she would try to find some sort of behavior or response from her part to adapt to the situation. These masculine traits are not created in a spark of social conditioning, but they come from millions of years of evolution. A woman may not hate a man who fails biologicaly, but deep inside her brain, his lack of masculine traits have an effect on how she sees him.

Women are likely to be plagued by the same kind of feelings, afraid of being judged or rejected for not fitting into these categories. But I can see that they would try just as hard to fit into that old mold because they have succumbed to the notion that they would not be desirable otherwise. So what if it conjures up confusion if we are confronted with someone who does not fit perfectly into these categories? You said they'd try to adapt...adapt and overcome I'd say. I thought that's what we do. But if either party is not willing to do so, I doubt there is any use in trying to force them together.

Sometimes the "overly emotional or potentially unstable woman" don't want us anyway. And we can be very reasonable. I often wonder how many people would choose between a life with zero relationships or a life with just bad relationships.

The real question is what you would choose, given the opportunity. And I don't need to hear the answer to this. This is all for yourself to think through.

That's the tragedy of the homo sapiens. We realize the circumstances are rigid and pretend we don't care. The only advantage or our brains is to be able to reflect in this fact. We realize that the animalistic chains that hold us in the foundations of our behavior are there, but we try to deny how much they rule us. Consciousness gave us an understanding of were our needs come from, but didn't make us able to change them.

You can at least try to rise above your primal instincts a bit and more importantly, assume that there are people out there who try to do the same. Even if it's all pretense as you put it, I think I'd rather pretend not to care and to rise above than pretend I am shallow just to improve my chances to appeal to someone else who would never accept me for not fitting perfectly into their little image.

That's an interesting question. There's a really cruel reflection coming from that spiel. Society lecture us to improve once and again ad nauseum, without acknowledging that if the direction we choose to improve comes from objectively good purposes. Is and endless loop of self-fulfilling condescendence. If you keep improving but get no result is because you you haven't really improve enough. If you fail is your fault and if you give up is your fault too. Society prefers to put the blame on how you follow their instructions rather to maybe, and just maybe! consider that their design may be flawed. To them, the possibility of you doing everything right and still fail it's impossible. Because it would mean to have to address very painful and harsh constructions inside the system they defend.

Well, I'm not in support of the worn-out You-can-achieve-anything delusion. I know it's not true. I know some of us will never achieve what we strived for in this life. And yet, I wouldn't want to put my weapons down and and say: "You know, maybe I'm part of the designated loser crew. Let's stop here for good." I just don't want to end up there. But that's my personal view and I won't blame anyone else for surrendering. But society is not this gigantic, anonymous and hostile clusterfuck. There are people like you and me in there and - believe it or not - also females who will not bend to the system and who sympathize with like-minded guys and gals. And I'd rather appeal to this supposed minority the way I am than forcing myself into a mold, trying to appeal to majority.

Believe me when I tell you that many lonely men would choose an adequate woman before and idealization if she came first. This even with all the "improvement" they could have done previously. Because men like us, who have followed the rules imposed by the system, have come to understand that we are tied to remain silent in every outcome. If you aren't good enough you have no right to complain. But if you are in fact good enough, you can't complain either because that would make you arrogant and bitter. Because a person deserving of a relationship never should complain and never should question the status quo. A person deserving of a relationship should never experience injustice, rejection, mockery or envy. A person deserving of a relationship should never see him/herself morally above others even when he/she is. A person deserving of a relationship always will have a relationship, because the system is perfect and you'll never be; specially if you question the system.

I don't doubt that. And women are fighting the same war, just on a different front and with different weapons. I won't indulge in the whole person-deserving-of-a-relationship matter because I don't believe in that kinda thing. People toss phrases like "he/she does not deserve this/that" around all the time...nobody deserves anything really. honeysuckle happens all the time, because it's all chaos in motion. Yet there are healthier alternatives to running around and proclaiming how rigged the game is though. I won't deny it is, but I believe you got a choice how to handle it. Not all bets are off, but some are.

You see, it was never my intention to convince you of anything else. I was merely providing a different perspective here. Which I'm done with now.

 

[Skid Row 89]

The usual line is something like "Are there no women in your life?" I don't get asked about it very often though, most people around me think I'm too pathetic to attract a woman anyway and as the years progress I become more convinced that they're right.

I used to get this. Though this year I haven't. As I've picked up dates. Probably making some of the sayers jealous.
That sort of thinking doesn't help man. Try and keep positive. I know it's tough!
[/quote]
I think I'm more or less a lost cause at this stage but I'm glad you had some success. Thanks for the kind sentiments

 

[Xpendable]

To keep trying still seems like a better option than resorting to accept the brand mark of the unprivileged who's not even allowed to choose.

I never said I gave up, I just said it doesn't depend on me. Social restrictions are very real an powerful.

I can understand where you're coming from, but honestly: If you shove yourself into the undesirable category, your ride is over for good.

Again, is not me who finally determine this.

You might be so hellbent on experiencing a relationship that you would take anything you can get...and in case you get it, you might not let it go anymore. And that can get quite nasty. You might dive headfirst into something toxic while adding your own note of toxicity to this rooted in your feelings of inadequacy.

I'm too unnoticeable to attract toxic people. They tend to be loud extroverts who hate silence.

Women are likely to be plagued by the same kind of feelings, afraid of being judged or rejected for not fitting into these categories.

This has to do with what? I never said otherwise.

But I can see that they would try just as hard to fit into that old mold because they have succumbed to the notion that they would not be desirable otherwise.

Women have to go to really extreme horizons to be considered undesirable. I've seen all type of women, all creeds and personalities, body shapes, intelligence, morality and beliefs. And they all fall into someone's validation. But it's true, women would never do something that alienated them from society, it's just that their mold is more flexible.

So what if it conjures up confusion if we are confronted with someone who does not fit perfectly into these categories? You said they'd try to adapt...adapt and overcome I'd say.

Adapt to dismiss.

The real question is what you would choose, given the opportunity. And I don't need to hear the answer to this. This is all for yourself to think through.

Can't choose neither. I'm already at zero without choosing and I wouldn't fall into a bad relationship because I'm to aware to not see it coming.

You can at least try to rise above your primal instincts a bit

That's not how evolution works.

and more importantly, assume that there are people out there who try to do the same.

Never make assumptions, they usually end up completely different.

Even if it's all pretense as you put it,

Is not me who puts it.

I think I'd rather pretend not to care and to rise above than pretend I am shallow just to improve my chances to appeal to someone else who would never accept me for not fitting perfectly into their little image.

No one is pretending to be shallow. We are pretending not to be.

society is not this gigantic, anonymous and hostile clusterfuck. There are people like you and me. And I'd rather appeal to this supposed minority the way I am than forcing myself into a mold, trying to appeal to majority.

Were do you live?, because in my country it is like that. Imagine all the minorities you know and now shrink them 20 times, and make them 20 times less subversive.

I don't doubt that. And women are fighting the same war, just on a different front and with different weapons.

With more and better weapons.

You see, it was never my intention to convince you of anything else. I was merely providing a different perspective here. Which I'm done with now.

You are slightly more optimist. That's ok.