You can't win if you're dishonest, but you can't win if you are either. You just can't win.

[user 176211]

I was sitting here thinking about how nice companionship is. As I am pushing 40, yes, as a man, I finally see the value in companionship.

My last break up happened 2 months ago in July. I met a nice woman with a lot to offer and good head on shoulders. A doctor. Nice lady. We had what you would call a whirlwind romance. Neither of us have kids, no divorces. Hard working people.

This is probably the first time in my life as a man where I said that I was going to make my relationship a priority and use it to try to be a better man.

This means communicate more. I did that. I talked a lot about the future. She was dating to marry.

It also meant to curb my pride. I did that. I stopped seeing relationship disagreements as someone "being against me" and just realized how destructive that was as a younger man. I even started learning to take my time from arguments to cool down before I say things that I could regret (boy did this blow up in my face. Stay tuned).

It meant to listen to her and use that information to be in tune with her feelings and wants. We got great memories of that because I used it to demonstrate that I listen.

My downfall here? I was honest with her. I told her all about my rough childhood. About how I got hit and how things were handled in my family and I told her that these are patterns that I want to break away from.

What happened?
We were one day having a discussion about marriage. I mentioned that it'd be important for me to follow the tradition of her taking my name. She wanted to keep hers because of her profession. I said ok, and I let it go. But she seemed almost seemingly OBLIGATED to continue to push the topic. And eventually, some pretty hurtful words slipped out of her mouth. She asked me why does she feel like she has to lose something to marry me. In my head, in that very moment, I already knew the relationship was over. I knew it because I was going to start withdrawing and pulling away because it dawned on me that she wasn't mature enough for marriage if she views ANY aspect of marriage as "losing something". And I was certainly not pushing the name thing. Keep your name. But even after that, she exposed that this is how she felt. It hurt. A lot. Because at the first time of my life, I was actually consciously trying to be a better man.

The Aftermath
I went a little silent during that week because I have been having a long few weeks at work. I didn't talk much at night aside from the obligatory hi, how was your day, good night routine. But by the end of the week, I was cooled down. I was past the hustle and bustle of the week, and I was ready to talk. When we talked, she told me she felt unloved because we didn't talk all week and that I was giving her the cold shoulder. I explained that what she said hurt my feelings a lot and that I wanted time to process it and get through it. This offended her because in her eyes, she could do no wrong. She got indignant and said that on the contrary, *I* owe HER an apology for treating her could shoulder. I did not. And now I am single.

Remember earlier when I said that I was open with her about my upbringing and why it was important for me to be a better man for a future family? Yea. She threw all of that in my face. The violence I faced growing up. My economic situation growing up. Every single thing that I told her about that made me feel unsafe to tell in all my past relationships... I told her... and guess what? I was right. It wasn't safe to be honest. And it never will be again.

Since then, things have been very easy. I picked up smoking weed again. I sleep around with trashy women who leave when I need them to, and could honestly give a **** less whether I live or die. It's just sex. For them, maybe a revenge **** against their husband, or maybe an "I'll show you!" ****, if their boyfriend has the temerity to go out one night with his friends. Some of them are single and want something serious. But they won't find it with me. And while that sounds trashy, I am doing them the favor of their lives. Or someone who wants a relationship with me, but its way too much work to explain to them how broken I feel. For me, the getting high, the climax, and the solitude afterward feels fulfilling. Not because I am broken. I AM broken. Never gonna argue that. But for me, its the ease. I get the companionship. But then I get the solitude I enjoy. And I don't have to put up with trying to undo years of the multitude of ways I have been emotionally injured, and I CERTAINLY don't have to put up with their baggage and ****. Its not that I don't care. Its just that I have my own ****. Lets just provide each other a little relief and dopamine, and I'll see you for the next fix. Easiest thing in the world.

Its just almost like some toys were meant to stay broken. And I just fully accept it now. what are you going to do but try to cope? I don't have all the answers.

 

[doot]

Since then, things have been very easy. I picked up smoking weed again. I sleep around with trashy women who leave when I need them to, and could honestly give a **** less whether I live or die. It's just sex. For them, maybe a revenge **** against their husband, or maybe an "I'll show you!" ****, if their boyfriend has the temerity to go out one night with his friends. Some of them are single and want something serious. But they won't find it with me. And while that sounds trashy, I am doing them the favor of their lives.

I can't imagine why somebody with this kind of sociopathic outlook would fail to find true romance. It's so weird!

 

[user 176211]

I can't imagine why somebody with this kind of sociopathic outlook would fail to find true romance. It's so weird!

I dunno. People like me probably give up because of ********* like you.

You just did EXACTLY the same thing the woman in my post (the ex) did. I take a minute to be honest that I was not an attentive or focused partner. So I worked really hard and became that. And it still wasn't good enough because I happened to meet a woman who couldn't be adult enough to accept that she hurt my feelings because I got devoted to her. So if I fell in love, I'm a simp. Or if I got hurt and just decide to sleep around, then Im "sociopathic" in nature. You LITERALLY just proved the title to this post. You can't win.

Just like you. In my post, I admit that I wasn't the best at relationships, but I became a far better person because I tried and applied myself. And in the end, I only did it for a person who threw all the things I confided in her back into my face. I posted that to explain my situation. And instead of talking to me like a person about it, you implied that my outlook is sociopathic because I described being tired and giving up. You're a piece of **** for implying so, by the way.

But either way. I sleep around now and feel a sense of fulfillment out of it. Who gives a ****? It works for me and I don't put a gun to anyone's head to engage with me. Get over yourself. Not everyone in the world has all of life's answers like you seem to have. And if they did, they wouldn't be on a forum about anxiety and depression. At least I am honest with myself about who I am. You're here trying to obviously figure **** out, while simultaneously judging people you don't even know. You sound like a bigger piece of **** than you think I am.

 

[TheRealCallie]

You did give her the cold shoulder. You said it yourself. You didn't like what you said so you knew the relationship was over. And having to give up your name...the one you've had your entire life IS like losing something. That doesn't mean you wouldn't also be gaining ****, but you do lose that part of yourself. You failed to allow yourself to see it from HER perspective because you seem to think yours is higher priority. You spent the entire week essentially ignoring her because YOU needed time to think. Did you at all consider anything that she might need or how she might view that. By all means, take time to process, but that doesn't mean not talking to her at all or only saying trivial things. You can still talk about **** and process something else while you do.
Sorry, but this seems like the classic "he said, she said" type story where your version and hers would be completely different. Not everyone has the same perspective, yet, once again, you seem to think yours is the only one that matters.

 

[user 176211]

You did give her the cold shoulder. You said it yourself. You didn't like what you said so you knew the relationship was over. And having to give up your name...the one you've had your entire life IS like losing something. That doesn't mean you wouldn't also be gaining ****, but you do lose that part of yourself. You failed to allow yourself to see it from HER perspective because you seem to think yours is higher priority. You spent the entire week essentially ignoring her because YOU needed time to think. Did you at all consider anything that she might need or how she might view that. By all means, take time to process, but that doesn't mean not talking to her at all or only saying trivial things. You can still talk about **** and process something else while you do.
Sorry, but this seems like the classic "he said, she said" type story where your version and hers would be completely different. Not everyone has the same perspective, yet, once again, you seem to think yours is the only one that matters.

I hear ya. But I am going to take a guess and say you're a female because it sounds here like you did a little selective reading.

NO- I didn't ignore her all week. We talked each evening but it was general small talk unrelated to the situation. At the end of the week when I felt comfortable and I felt better, I discussed it with her and explained what happened. But I get it- its not healthy that I took time to process things because I am a man. I get it. We're not allowed to feel ways about things.

And there was a whole section in that whole post that you selectively glanced over that says that when she said what she said about her name, I let it go because that is her prerogative. Missed that part, didn't we?

And by your last point- you're 100% correct. You're only hearing my side of the story. I didn't say the contrary to that in any way shape or form. Yes, if you talk to her, she will have her version of the story. I mean... that's pretty elementary. Didn't think I needed to say that.

And I am sorry to break it to you- but it sounds like you might also be a little too immature for marriage. If you are serious about that kind of ****, you're all in or you're going to fail. Hell, you might fail even if you're all in. But I find it ironic how you missed that I let the name thing go and was fine with it. I also find it funny how you missed the fact that she made the comment about losing something AFTER I told her that I have nothing to do with her decision in what she does with her name. Its funny that even though I was the only one of us two who was all in, you can't acknowledge that she was obviously having cold feet. And I'M the villain when I knew that it wasn't going anywhere?

Again, I get it. Im a man, so I'm not allowed to have feelings about **** and all that. I saw a red flag and pointed it out and I'm the devil. But when women see red flags in relationships and leave, its commendable. Gotcha

 

[TheRealCallie]

lol, yeah, it was totally me that "selectively" read what was written. And of course, you're always right. I'm getting that from everything you post. It's never your fault, you never have to see it from the other person's perspective. You never think you might have misunderstood (or deliberately mistook something). You might want to work on that.

 

[user 176211]

lol, yeah, it was totally me that "selectively" read what was written. And of course, you're always right. I'm getting that from everything you post. It's never your fault, you never have to see it from the other person's perspective. You never think you might have misunderstood (or deliberately mistook something). You might want to work on that.

Ok, so you ARE a female. That confirms it.

Her comment about feeling like she loses something by marrying me was hurtful, and she refused to apologize. But you think that's correct. Your logic and her logic are identical. Your logic is "I hurt your feelings, so you should apologize to me."

Here is how it would sound:
I apologize that you directly affected my feelings by revealing that you're not all in with me after you demanded it from me first. Yea, I'm sorry that I was hurt about that

Lady, you have an ass backwards circular logic. I want you to understand that I don't say that combatively nor is it meant to be disrespectful. On the contrary, I am grateful that you took time to weigh in. In general, I do feel gratitude that you took time.. but lady, you don't always have to do the "us vs them" thing, you know? I know that by reading my post, you'd think I was some kind of machismo-driven man or something, but I have plenty of female friends who I can have these kinds of relationship conversations with and have an honest and objective look at it- without having to have the whole "girls rule the world" thing.

You're right- there ARE two sides of the story- I'm SAYING the same thing. But I can't give you her side of the story. I am unable to do that. So what do you want from me? Do you think I'm just sitting here posting to complete anonymous strangers to save face for strangers? To look big and bad... on the internet... anonymously? Or am I just a dude on an depression form venting because I'm hurt. Why do men have to justify ANYTHING when we're hurt, or have a complaint about something, or having a voice about things that matter to us? And why are we judged when we clam up and don't share and repress and keep **** bottled up?

 

[TheRealCallie]

You want to get off your high horse? I don't give a flying **** what gender who is. I would say the same thing if you were the woman. YOU screwed up by only considering YOUR feelings, by only considering YOUR perspective. You're still doing that. If you are even reading what I post at all, you are choosing to interpret it in a way that I didn't intend or convey. I don't give a **** about that women vs men ********. I call it like I see it and I've said the same **** to women...many times. It's not just HER, it's YOU as well.

And actually there are more than two sides. Yours, hers and then what actually happened. It's true in any situation with any people.

 

[Finished]

Had to break up my answer into several posts because it was too long. Ha! ha!

I was sitting here thinking about how nice companionship is. As I am pushing 40, yes, as a man, I finally see the value in companionship.

Yep. Companionship very comforting.

My last break up happened 2 months ago in July.

Damn!

I met a nice woman with a lot to offer and good head on shoulders. A doctor. Nice lady. We had what you would call a whirlwind romance. Neither of us have kids, no divorces. Hard working people.

This is probably the first time in my life as a man where I said that I was going to make my relationship a priority and use it to try to be a better man.

This means communicate more. I did that. I talked a lot about the future. She was dating to marry.

It also meant to curb my pride. I did that. I stopped seeing relationship disagreements as someone "being against me" and just realized how destructive that was as a younger man. I even started learning to take my time from arguments to cool down before I say things that I could regret (boy did this blow up in my face. Stay tuned).

It meant to listen to her and use that information to be in tune with her feelings and wants. We got great memories of that because I used it to demonstrate that I listen.

Sounds Awesome!

My downfall here? I was honest with her. I told her all about my rough childhood. About how I got hit and how things were handled in my family and I told her that these are patterns that I want to break away from.

Ohhhhh. Maybe it's not the honesty thing as much as it was too much information. But, you did say you stop the chain. That gets points.

What happened?
We were one day having a discussion about marriage. I mentioned that it'd be important for me to follow the tradition of her taking my name.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

She wanted to keep hers because of her profession. I said ok, and I let it go.

Perfect!

But she seemed almost seemingly OBLIGATED to continue to push the topic. And eventually, some pretty hurtful words slipped out of her mouth.

Okay. You accidentally uncovered a previous wound from someone else before you.

She asked me why does she feel like she has to lose something to marry me. In my head, in that very moment, I already knew the relationship was over.

No. Please don't do that. I understand that she just hurt you. But, thinking that is sabotaging the relationship.

I knew it because I was going to start withdrawing and pulling away because it dawned on me that she wasn't mature enough for marriage if she views ANY aspect of marriage as "losing something".

Marriage is absolutely about losing some things and gaining others. With marriage you loose independance of many things. Marrage is legally merging two independant people. It's a major change and can be very scary.

And I was certainly not pushing the name thing. Keep your name. But even after that, she exposed that this is how she felt. It hurt. A lot. Because at the first time of my life, I was actually consciously trying to be a better man.

It sucks to get hurt. I totally understand your point. All you did is say the changing name thing is important to you. But, when you saw how much she was against it, you changed your opinion. You assumed, as you probably should have, that she would have been greatful, smiled, and said thank you. But, instead she became defensive, which didn't make any sense to you and were hurt, so you became defensive. Then you were both defensive. That causes all kinds of problems.

As a guy, the best thing to do when that happens, and I know it doesn't make sense or seem fair, is to apologized and then say you understand. This usually will calm the situation down.

 

[Finished]

The Aftermath
I went a little silent during that week because I have been having a long few weeks at work. I didn't talk much at night aside from the obligatory hi, how was your day, good night routine. But by the end of the week, I was cooled down. I was past the hustle and bustle of the week, and I was ready to talk. When we talked, she told me she felt unloved because we didn't talk all week and that I was giving her the cold shoulder.

I know you did talk to her during the week. But, she felt like it wasn't REAL talk. She felt you weren't fully present, which you weren't. To some women/maybe many this translate to "he doesn't love me any more." This is usually when a woman will start looking for another guy. It's important to see this and quickly react to it. Yes, that means flowers, a card, telling her you love her, or doing something that is special to her.

I explained that what she said hurt my feelings a lot and that I wanted time to process it and get through it.

Totally understandable! AND much better then saying mean things to her.

This offended her because in her eyes, she could do no wrong. She got indignant and said that on the contrary, *I* owe HER an apology for treating her could shoulder. I did not. And now I am single.

Oh crap. Yep, you have to learn to apologized a lot and then say you understand even if you believe you shouldn't. It's just one of those things you have to do IF you want to be in a lasting relationship.

Remember earlier when I said that I was open with her about my upbringing and why it was important for me to be a better man for a future family? Yea. She threw all of that in my face. The violence I faced growing up. My economic situation growing up. Every single thing that I told her about that made me feel unsafe to tell in all my past relationships... I told her... and guess what? I was right. It wasn't safe to be honest. And it never will be again.

She was just trying to hurt you because she was hurt. And yes, that's a very wrong and immature thing to do.

Since then, things have been very easy. I picked up smoking weed again. I sleep around with trashy women who leave when I need them to, and could honestly give a **** less whether I live or die. It's just sex. For them, maybe a revenge **** against their husband, or maybe an "I'll show you!" ****, if their boyfriend has the temerity to go out one night with his friends. Some of them are single and want something serious. But they won't find it with me. And while that sounds trashy, I am doing them the favor of their lives. Or someone who wants a relationship with me, but its way too much work to explain to them how broken I feel. For me, the getting high, the climax, and the solitude afterward feels fulfilling. Not because I am broken. I AM broken. Never gonna argue that. But for me, its the ease. I get the companionship. But then I get the solitude I enjoy. And I don't have to put up with trying to undo years of the multitude of ways I have been emotionally injured, and I CERTAINLY don't have to put up with their baggage and ****. Its not that I don't care. Its just that I have my own ****. Lets just provide each other a little relief and dopamine, and I'll see you for the next fix. Easiest thing in the world.

Ha! ha! Yeah......... single life is easy! Absolutely!!!! But, there are no free lunches. Good companionship can be difficult to find as a single person. Relationships are a **** ton of fing work. Every person is different. So, if you think you've figured everything out from the last three relationships, guess what? You haven't. But, you do pick up some things like knowing when to say you are sorry and when to show and give gestures of love. But, even then if you accidentally give the wrong item you'll get blasted. How the hell did you know that the last ahole she dated gave her the exact same thing. Blaaaaaaaa.

IMO, I know quite well how the relationship game is played. Sure, sometimes people get lucky and things just click. But, for most it's a lot of hard work on BOTH sides. That's why I decided to sit on the sidelines and watch others have relationships. My life is a little boring and I have zero companionship. But, it's also very calm, relaxing, and stress free much of the time.

 

[Finished]

Its just almost like some toys were meant to stay broken. And I just fully accept it now. what are you going to do but try to cope? I don't have all the answers.

Well, everybody has baggage and problems. If both people are willing to work to better themselves and work for the relationship instead of themselves it can work very well. I'd love for that to happen for me. But, I have up trying.

But to answer your title. It's not about being honest it's about giving too much information to soon.

I went on a date with a woman a long damn time ago. She was studying to be a physiologist. So, I brushed up on the subject so I could show that I took the time to learn about her field. Anyway we were eating a nice meal and she asked about accidents of my past. So, I said, yeah I had quite a few head tramas and was knocked unconscious many times. Then she probed about that. Then I could see the light go out in her eyes. She already judged me as bad and possibly having furture brain problems, or atleast I assumed that. Anyway, I thought it was obvious and she didn't want to go out on another date.

Instead I shouldn't have discussed it or shared the stories, some of which I thought were funny and she would laugh about. I should have just said that kids get hurt or something to that effect and

 

[Blue Bob]

Her intentionally hurting you with things you told her about yourself is a blessing in disguise. You got to see her true colors. I think you were right for walking. Don’t even look back. Just remember, there are good hearted women in the world. Only problem is, most of them are taken.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

In my humble opinion, if a woman is not going to take your name, leave her where you found her. I cant imagine even saying anything like that to a man I hope to marry, honestly...

 

[user 188522]

Having worked hard and long to earn the DR. before your name, I understand not wanting to change it. However, hyphening Can be the answer.
Example Doe-Smith. I have no relationship advice, but I wish you well.

 

[user 135671]

Mate truth is, and I think you know this already, everybody is going to hurt you at some point, you just got to find the ones worth suffering for.

 

[charlotte craig]

Asking a woman to change her name when she married is a big ask - a much bigger ask if it's her professional working name too. You should have realised that and not asked let alone pushing it.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

I was sitting here thinking about how nice companionship is. As I am pushing 40, yes, as a man, I finally see the value in companionship.

My last break up happened 2 months ago in July. I met a nice woman with a lot to offer and good head on shoulders. A doctor. Nice lady. We had what you would call a whirlwind romance. Neither of us have kids, no divorces. Hard working people.

This is probably the first time in my life as a man where I said that I was going to make my relationship a priority and use it to try to be a better man.

This means communicate more. I did that. I talked a lot about the future. She was dating to marry.

It also meant to curb my pride. I did that. I stopped seeing relationship disagreements as someone "being against me" and just realized how destructive that was as a younger man. I even started learning to take my time from arguments to cool down before I say things that I could regret (boy did this blow up in my face. Stay tuned).

It meant to listen to her and use that information to be in tune with her feelings and wants. We got great memories of that because I used it to demonstrate that I listen.

My downfall here? I was honest with her. I told her all about my rough childhood. About how I got hit and how things were handled in my family and I told her that these are patterns that I want to break away from.

What happened?
We were one day having a discussion about marriage. I mentioned that it'd be important for me to follow the tradition of her taking my name. She wanted to keep hers because of her profession. I said ok, and I let it go. But she seemed almost seemingly OBLIGATED to continue to push the topic. And eventually, some pretty hurtful words slipped out of her mouth. She asked me why does she feel like she has to lose something to marry me. In my head, in that very moment, I already knew the relationship was over. I knew it because I was going to start withdrawing and pulling away because it dawned on me that she wasn't mature enough for marriage if she views ANY aspect of marriage as "losing something". And I was certainly not pushing the name thing. Keep your name. But even after that, she exposed that this is how she felt. It hurt. A lot. Because at the first time of my life, I was actually consciously trying to be a better man.

The Aftermath
I went a little silent during that week because I have been having a long few weeks at work. I didn't talk much at night aside from the obligatory hi, how was your day, good night routine. But by the end of the week, I was cooled down. I was past the hustle and bustle of the week, and I was ready to talk. When we talked, she told me she felt unloved because we didn't talk all week and that I was giving her the cold shoulder. I explained that what she said hurt my feelings a lot and that I wanted time to process it and get through it. This offended her because in her eyes, she could do no wrong. She got indignant and said that on the contrary, *I* owe HER an apology for treating her could shoulder. I did not. And now I am single.

Remember earlier when I said that I was open with her about my upbringing and why it was important for me to be a better man for a future family? Yea. She threw all of that in my face. The violence I faced growing up. My economic situation growing up. Every single thing that I told her about that made me feel unsafe to tell in all my past relationships... I told her... and guess what? I was right. It wasn't safe to be honest. And it never will be again.

Since then, things have been very easy. I picked up smoking weed again. I sleep around with trashy women who leave when I need them to, and could honestly give a **** less whether I live or die. It's just sex. For them, maybe a revenge **** against their husband, or maybe an "I'll show you!" ****, if their boyfriend has the temerity to go out one night with his friends. Some of them are single and want something serious. But they won't find it with me. And while that sounds trashy, I am doing them the favor of their lives. Or someone who wants a relationship with me, but its way too much work to explain to them how broken I feel. For me, the getting high, the climax, and the solitude afterward feels fulfilling. Not because I am broken. I AM broken. Never gonna argue that. But for me, its the ease. I get the companionship. But then I get the solitude I enjoy. And I don't have to put up with trying to undo years of the multitude of ways I have been emotionally injured, and I CERTAINLY don't have to put up with their baggage and ****. Its not that I don't care. Its just that I have my own ****. Lets just provide each other a little relief and dopamine, and I'll see you for the next fix. Easiest thing in the world.

Its just almost like some toys were meant to stay broken. And I just fully accept it now. what are you going to do but try to cope? I don't have all the answers.

I'll probably come back and read through the entire thread; but, after reading your initial post... I don't see any problem on your end. It sounds like the woman was a bit pathological to be honest. She stated she didn't want to take your name in marriage (which _could_ be, a big issue for most men); _and_, you let it go; and what did she do? She went on the offensive, and blamed _you_.

Giving yourself space, to collect your thoughts, so you can manage disagreements, is a _healthy_, thing to do. Saying you feel, 'unloved,' because your partner is trying to give his best to the relationship, is immature ********; and it's pathological to attack him and blame him for that. It's not like you skipped town for a month and slept around while you gathered your thoughts.

I don't see anything broken or ****** up on your end man. She sounds like she was pathological; it's scary to think this woman was a doctor of anything.

I'm not sitting here trying to make you feel better or anything too, I mean, I'm not, not trying to do that; but, objectively, with the information you have given me: she was unfair, uncompromising, immature, antagonistic, and outright hostile. I say she was also pathological, because, she expected you to apologize to her, while not being able to even fathom, any possible wrong doing on her end. Pure one way street ********. And that's not how relationships work.

A sensitive, wise, and understanding woman would know the following...

1: It might be important to a man for his woman to take his name in marriage.

1a: so the onus on her, is to be firm in her conviction of wanting to keep her name; but, to also be understanding and sympathetic, as well as to seek resolution and understanding on that situation, if she wishes things to go further. That would mean being firm on what's important to her; but, to also be _understanding_ and reciprocating, in trying to resolve the issue. (ie: I understand that may be important to you, so how can we work through this together? And I apologize up front if that hurts you in some way, as that's not my intention, it's just important to me for X, Y, Z, reasons.)

Basically to just not be a dick about, what would have been a piece of cake to work through, even if it was something she had to break up over, because it was that important. (instead she just created argument, and blamed you for having feelings and trying to deal with them).

I would say your only mistake was, at the beginning, brushing off _your_ own feelings on the matter. Unfortunately, that would have gone over just as bad.

She sounds like a very immature woman who deserves to be alone at 40. There is of course reasons why she may be that way; but, that way she remains, it seems. It would not be hard for her to call up and say, "look I'm sorry things haven't been going well between us, let's try to work things out." Very, very simple, thing to do.

I don't think it's any reason to give up; but, **** like that is certainly enough to want to throw in the towl.

On the plus side, at least you can get high and fool around heh.

In defense of some of the posts here, that have not, 'sided,' with you; I will say that your premise of, "things didn't work out, so I'm going to give up." Is also an equally immature attitude to the one she took with you.

And taking sides in general, is immature.

Honesty is it's own reward. Unfortunately that reward is often very punishing. Such is things.

 

[ardour]

I'll probably come back and read through the entire thread; but, after reading your initial post... I don't see any problem on your end. It sounds like the woman was a bit pathological to be honest. She stated she didn't want to take your name in marriage (which _could_ be, a big issue for most men); _and_, you let it go; and what did she do? She went on the offensive, and blamed _you_.

Giving yourself space, to collect your thoughts, so you can manage disagreements, is a _healthy_, thing to do. Saying you feel, 'unloved,' because your partner is trying to give his best to the relationship, is immature ********; and it's pathological to attack him and blame him for that. It's not like you skipped town for a month and slept around while you gathered your thoughts.

I don't see anything broken or messed up on your end man. She sounds like she was pathological; it's scary to think this woman was a doctor of anything.

I'm not sitting here trying to make you feel better or anything too, I mean, I'm not, not trying to do that; but, objectively, with the information you have given me: she was unfair, uncompromising, immature, antagonistic, and outright hostile. I say she was also pathological, because, she expected you to apologize to her, while not being able to even fathom, any possible wrong doing on her end. Pure one way street ********. And that's not how relationships work.

A sensitive, wise, and understanding woman would know the following...

1: It might be important to a man for his woman to take his name in marriage.

1a: so the onus on her, is to be firm in her conviction of wanting to keep her name; but, to also be understanding and sympathetic, as well as to seek resolution and understanding on that situation, if she wishes things to go further. That would mean being firm on what's important to her; but, to also be _understanding_ and reciprocating, in trying to resolve the issue. (ie: I understand that may be important to you, so how can we work through this together? And I apologize up front if that hurts you in some way, as that's not my intention, it's just important to me for X, Y, Z, reasons.)

Basically to just not be a dick about, what would have been a piece of cake to work through, even if it was something she had to break up over, because it was that important. (instead she just created argument, and blamed you for having feelings and trying to deal with them).

I would say your only mistake was, at the beginning, brushing off _your_ own feelings on the matter. Unfortunately, that would have gone over just as bad.

She sounds like a very immature woman who deserves to be alone at 40. There is of course reasons why she may be that way; but, that way she remains, it seems. It would not be hard for her to call up and say, "look I'm sorry things haven't been going well between us, let's try to work things out." Very, very simple, thing to do.

I don't think it's any reason to give up; but, **** like that is certainly enough to want to throw in the towl.

On the plus side, at least you can get high and fool around heh.

In defense of some of the posts here, that have not, 'sided,' with you; I will say that your premise of, "things didn't work out, so I'm going to give up." Is also an equally immature attitude to the one she took with you.

And taking sides in general, is immature.

Honesty is it's own reward. Unfortunately that reward is often very punishing. Such is things.

Agree with this. There was no reason to react the way she did and get "offended." A firm 'no' would have been enough. In the US 70% of women still take their husband's family name. (Hyphenated children's named gets ridiculous as well. What happens after several generations of this.... giant sentence long names?)

 

[M_also_lonely]

I was sitting here thinking about how nice companionship is. As I am pushing 40, yes, as a man, I finally see the value in companionship.

My last break up happened 2 months ago in July. I met a nice woman with a lot to offer and good head on shoulders. A doctor. Nice lady. We had what you would call a whirlwind romance. Neither of us have kids, no divorces. Hard working people.

This is probably the first time in my life as a man where I said that I was going to make my relationship a priority and use it to try to be a better man.

This means communicate more. I did that. I talked a lot about the future. She was dating to marry.

It also meant to curb my pride. I did that. I stopped seeing relationship disagreements as someone "being against me" and just realized how destructive that was as a younger man. I even started learning to take my time from arguments to cool down before I say things that I could regret (boy did this blow up in my face. Stay tuned).

It meant to listen to her and use that information to be in tune with her feelings and wants. We got great memories of that because I used it to demonstrate that I listen.

My downfall here? I was honest with her. I told her all about my rough childhood. About how I got hit and how things were handled in my family and I told her that these are patterns that I want to break away from.

Ah! This one seems easy. I haven't read past this, but let me guess, did she create a drama over something, then break up and then blame it on you and ask you to apologize for the same?

 

[M_also_lonely]

What happened?
We were one day having a discussion about marriage. I mentioned that it'd be important for me to follow the tradition of her taking my name. She wanted to keep hers because of her profession. I said ok, and I let it go. But she seemed almost seemingly OBLIGATED to continue to push the topic. And eventually, some pretty hurtful words slipped out of her mouth. She asked me why does she feel like she has to lose something to marry me. In my head, in that very moment, I already knew the relationship was over. I knew it because I was going to start withdrawing and pulling away because it dawned on me that she wasn't mature enough for marriage if she views ANY aspect of marriage as "losing something". And I was certainly not pushing the name thing. Keep your name. But even after that, she exposed that this is how she felt. It hurt. A lot. Because at the first time of my life, I was actually consciously trying to be a better man.

The Aftermath
I went a little silent during that week because I have been having a long few weeks at work. I didn't talk much at night aside from the obligatory hi, how was your day, good night routine. But by the end of the week, I was cooled down. I was past the hustle and bustle of the week, and I was ready to talk. When we talked, she told me she felt unloved because we didn't talk all week and that I was giving her the cold shoulder. I explained that what she said hurt my feelings a lot and that I wanted time to process it and get through it. This offended her because in her eyes, she could do no wrong. She got indignant and said that on the contrary, *I* owe HER an apology for treating her could shoulder. I did not. And now I am single.

Remember earlier when I said that I was open with her about my upbringing and why it was important for me to be a better man for a future family? Yea. She threw all of that in my face. The violence I faced growing up. My economic situation growing up. Every single thing that I told her about that made me feel unsafe to tell in all my past relationships... I told her... and guess what? I was right. It wasn't safe to be honest. And it never will be again.

Uhh, you failed the tests, man. That's what happened.