38 male virgin - Pros and Cons of paying for sex

[Mr. Preuss]

I would say it's the fear of missing out, but not just on physicality, on connection - the whole experience.
At some point, doing those things you mentioned ("leave your homes, go do something, touch some grass") feels like empty distractions. You can only consume so much media, drink so much booze, go to so many places, before it all gets old. Like, this is as good as it's going to get...f*ck. You start to want something more - what everyone else is having.

Guess what? people who have sex and are in a relationship also want more than they have, they too feel like stuff they usually do gets old and boring after some time, eventually they feel regular drugs, alcohol and tobacco and stuff, are no longer enough, so they resort to harder and harder drugs, and if they keep going that way, sooner or later it will all end very badly for them. You don't have to be a drug user, though, for things to end badly for you. If your life is nothing more than a blind pursuit of pleasure, it doesn't matter what means you employ to pursuit such pleasure, eventually, chances are things will end badly for you. Just look around you, misery is all around us, and it comes in all shapes and sizes: self-inflicted, inherited, voluntary, involuntary etc. The greatest delusion is to believe that everyone else is happy when only you are not.

Also, I have abstained from commenting on the subject of this thread until now, but I'll strongly advise against hiring the services of an escort, especially for men of a weak psychic constitution for precisely the reasons stated by @ardour. The more anxiety you build up around sex, the more vulnerable you will become, and seeing a prostitute merely to release that anxiety will not help you out. After you're done, it will feel just like hangover, but psychologically much worse. Don't go in believing you know what you're doing because it's likely that you don't.

 

[TheSkaFish]

If your life is nothing more than a blind pursuit of pleasure, it doesn't matter what means you employ to pursuit such pleasure, eventually, chances are things will end badly for you. Just look around you, misery is all around us, and it comes in all shapes and sizes: self-inflicted, inherited, voluntary, involuntary etc. The greatest delusion is to believe that everyone else is happy when only you are not.

Agreed, actually. It's better to have a more meaningful "theme" for your life, than just the pursuit of pleasure. It's better to have a real quest. I was reading about Miyamoto Musashi the other day on Wikipedia, and when I got to the part about his personal life, he was said to have turned down advances from women, to focus himself completely on swordsmanship.

And I thought, you know what, that must be kind of nice in a way - to have something you're so passionate about, that you would choose to work on it, over sex - over all pleasure, comfort, luxury, relaxation, because you're good at it, so doing that, exploring what you can do with it, is more rewarding.

At the same time though, I'd hate to miss out on one of life's fundamental experiences - a real connection with someone. Feeling forcibly shut out, like you're not good enough, especially for something most people take for granted, makes you feel like sh*t.

I think like with so many things, a balance is best.

 

[Unsigned]

Why are you all so afraid of being virgins? Just look at this honeysuckle. It's like you're always thinking about it because it is pretty much the only thing you guys talk about on this site. No wonder women don't like you, you only think about it. Jesus ******* Christ, leave your homes, go do something, touch some grass etc.

As I have stated previously, some women have shown interest in me.
But they weren't pretty enough, or in the last 15 years or so, young enough.
Thus...P4P...

I leave my house every day.
I walked 7 miles today because I was working from home.
No 20 something 8/10s approached me...

 

[Unsigned]

The TL;DR answer is, because I'm not boyfriend material yet. My demons have kept me from it.

I think that is not the reason.
I've ALWAYS been "boyfriend material".
A least since I was 21 and graduated with a STEM degree, tall and in very good physical shape, and financially sound.

My issue?
I want a very specific type.
Race = White or East Asian.
Build = Small & Petite
Face = VERY PRETTY.

I can't help what I want.
But...if I was like most other guys...and was OK with settling...I would not be living alone.
Just a theory, but I think most "regular guys" like me who are alone, have the similar high standards.
I could be wrong...but I think I may be right.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I think that is not the reason.
I've ALWAYS been "boyfriend material".
A least since I was 21 and graduated with a STEM degree, tall and in very good physical shape, and financially sound.

My issue?
I want a very specific type.
Race = White or East Asian.
Build = Small & Petite
Face = VERY PRETTY.

I can't help what I want.
But...if I was like most other guys...and was OK with settling...I would not be living alone.
Just a theory, but I think most "regular guys" like me who are alone, have the similar high standards.
I could be wrong...but I think I may be right.

Yeah. I think if you weren't after such a specific type, this whole thing would/should have been a lot easier for you.

Have you ever thought about letting go of that type? Kind of, "been there, done that"?

 

[Unsigned]

Yeah. I think if you weren't after such a specific type, this whole thing would/should have been a lot easier for you.

Have you ever thought about letting go of that type? Kind of, "been there, done that"?

Can't teach an old dog new tricks...

 

[Mr. Preuss]

At the same time though, I'd hate to miss out on one of life's fundamental experiences - a real connection with someone. Feeling forcibly shut out, like you're not good enough, especially for something most people take for granted, makes you feel like sh*t.

I can understand that, but don't overestimate - as many people do and did throughout the ages - neither the value nor the positive nature of that which is, indeed, "one of life's fundamental experiences", because it's very easy to do so and it's very easy for one to become unhappy as a result of it. Remember that in the real world such "connection" with someone is something that is built up, it doesn't happen in an instant. Some people, generally women, believe it's instantaneous because they don't realize how much effort, how much time goes into building this connection up, which is to some extent only natural, as time flies when we're having fun and enjoying ourselves. But we cannot ignore the truth, even if life is more beautiful without it, even if it shatters a few of our illusions. This connection is, first, hardly immediate and, second, something that demands a great deal of effort and time which, usually, costs more - in pretty much every sense - to the men than to the women involved. This too shows it's not something to be taken for granted, if you're a man, that is. Finally, remember that just as there's a positive side to it, there's also a negative side to it, and if you ever succeed in getting a relationship, or if you're a keen observer of human behaviour, you'll realize that one is as trivial as the other. Great passions are followed by great disappointments and vice versa, and not uncommonly the epic gives way to the tragic, the comic and the farcical.

 

[ardour]

Why are you all so afraid of being virgins? Just look at this honeysuckle. It's like you're always thinking about it because it is pretty much the only thing you guys talk about on this site. No wonder women don't like you, you only think about it. Jesus ******* Christ, leave your homes, go do something, touch some grass etc.

1. this is a vent space
2. some of us do leave our homes; I'm a meetup regular, but I've never had a woman (of any age or level of attractiveness) show that kind of interest

 

[ardour]

Yeah. I think if you weren't after such a specific type, this whole thing would/should have been a lot easier for you.

Have you ever thought about letting go of that type? Kind of, "been there, done that"?

Most women (and men) his own age are going to look very much weather beaten, aged and with a not very outgoing/fun lifestyle. Adjusting to that takes a lifetime of relationship experience. Real relationships, not hookups or paid simulations.

Particularly difficult after missing out on all the younger adult stuff when it's meant to happen.

 

[Mr. Preuss]

I think it's pretty funny that you two replied "but I DO go out!111" and, not satisfied with that, added "YET NO WHAMEN COME TALK TO ME!111 I WANT 8/10 SEXY BEAUTIES TO COME TALK TO MEE!11111".

Like, the whole point of that comment was to tell you guys you should think a little less about women and sex, yet we are still talking about women and sex to the surprise of 0 individuals.

 

[ardour]

I agree with a lot of things said above, but with this sentence I cannot come to terms with.
I will not, under any circumstances, die a virgin. I will do whatever it takes to attract a woman or I will pay whatever it takes.

You think of it in terms of validating your masculinity, or you as an individual, as in "now I'm a full person."

But the barely concealed look of disgust on a sex worker's face (or blanked out expression) could end up doing far more damage than anything positive derived from the physical side of it.

An experience like this could send an already deeply insecure and unstable person over the edge.

 

[okidoke]

But the barely concealed look of disgust on a sex worker's face (or blanked out expression) could end up doing far more damage than anything positive derived from the physical side of it.

That look hasn’t been my experience. If anything, quite the opposite. One made me feel more adored than I have ever felt in my life.

(Don’t assume I’ve experienced paid sex many times. Less than a handful actually.)

 

[red_radio]

You think of it in terms of validating your masculinity, or you as an individual, as in "now I'm a full person."

But the barely concealed look of disgust on a sex worker's face (or blanked out expression) could end up doing far more damage than anything positive derived from the physical side of it.

An experience like this could send an already deeply insecure and unstable person over the edge.

It's funny, pretty much everyone I've asked their opinion on this said the same thing: it's not worth it. Better stay as you are and hope for better things.

But I've already stated my plan. If I don't like it, I won't go back - save my money and busy myself with more constructive things. If I do enoy it, so be it. It'll be a nice experience to remember and to build on.

But I've thought this over and over, thousands of times, on thousands of lonely/sleepless nights. It just has to be done.

I want to add that some sex workers, not all, are quite happy. I've watched some interviews/documentaries and few escorts were saying that they don't feel exploited (as they should), but walking with a few hundred or thousands in their purse actually makes them feel superior. Some men work really hard for their cash you know, but a pretty girl can make up to 10 times as an escort or on Onlyfans etc. The fabric of society is increasingly damaged as a consequence, but it's always been this way, more or less.

 

[TheRealCallie]

You know the pros and cons, everyone does. Whether one should go this route depends on the person. If you aren't going to think badly of yourself or them. If you have the money. If you can disassociate yourself from the girl (ie, not develop feelings for her because you were intimate). If you just want to have sex and don't care who it's with.

It's YOUR life. Do you what you feel you need to do. The only thing I will say is do your research, pick a good agency or someone that's reputable (as reputable as you can be in that kind of work). Most women who work for a legitimate agency have to do frequent STD testing. Just stay away from the crackwhores.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I can understand that, but don't overestimate - as many people do and did throughout the ages - neither the value nor the positive nature of that which is, indeed, "one of life's fundamental experiences", because it's very easy to do so and it's very easy for one to become unhappy as a result of it. Remember that in the real world such "connection" with someone is something that is built up, it doesn't happen in an instant. Some people, generally women, believe it's instantaneous because they don't realize how much effort, how much time goes into building this connection up, which is to some extent only natural, as time flies when we're having fun and enjoying ourselves. But we cannot ignore the truth, even if life is more beautiful without it, even if it shatters a few of our illusions. This connection is, first, hardly immediate and, second, something that demands a great deal of effort and time which, usually, costs more - in pretty much every sense - to the men than to the women involved. This too shows it's not something to be taken for granted, if you're a man, that is. Finally, remember that just as there's a positive side to it, there's also a negative side to it, and if you ever succeed in getting a relationship, or if you're a keen observer of human behaviour, you'll realize that one is as trivial as the other. Great passions are followed by great disappointments and vice versa, and not uncommonly the epic gives way to the tragic, the comic and the farcical.

Of course. I know it takes time to build connections. I think it might also help to try to connect with understanding people, as opposed to the ones who expect "fireworks" right away. That's more the kind of person that would be a fit for me anyway because I'm the same - I know it takes time. Even with having friends it took time.

At the same time, I still do feel like a lot of people around me, and people I know personally, just kind of fell into relationships though, and took it for granted as a normal part of life. Go to school, get friends, get a job, get a relationship, etc. - the natural progression of life in the modern world. I think I wasn't able to do it because I always had a hard time integrating into that because of my insecurities and hesitation to decide on a "self", a "me". I think I overthink, whereas a lot of people don't think at all, they just stay more or less the same person their entire lives, and by luck, it was strong enough in some area to integrate themselves into the game. All the Johnny Dudebro types put zero thought into their lives - it's like they've been the same person every year since kindergarten - they just so happen to be physically strong enough, and have good enough careers, to be confident in themselves, happy with their lives, and as a result attract someone - they also have a bigger pool of women looking for that kind of guy, so that helps as well. But then again I kind of had to think more, because I didn't feel like I had the strength to fit in anywhere right away, like them - so I had to think more about where I could belong. I don't have the strength in any area to fit in naturally, so I have to figure it out consciously. If I was a more "regular" guy, I think I could do better. But I don't think I'm so far away from that, that I can't learn to be it - if I untangle my old stories. What I am by default isn't good enough - I have to reinvent myself, and that takes more thinking, observing, researching options, getting a "feel" for what's "me", and so on.

And I know there are negatives too, for all this.

I just feel like the work, however great, is worth it.

And the negatives of NOT having a relationship, are worse than whatever negatives you get from being in one.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I think it's pretty funny that you two replied "but I DO go out!111" and, not satisfied with that, added "YET NO WHAMEN COME TALK TO ME!111 I WANT 8/10 SEXY BEAUTIES TO COME TALK TO MEE!11111".

Like, the whole point of that comment was to tell you guys you should think a little less about women and sex, yet we are still talking about women and sex to the surprise of 0 individuals.

See I don't really get it when people say things like this.

If someone is having a major problem in their lives, that problem tends to dominate their thoughts.

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.

Telling people to shut up about the problem, doesn't make them stop having it.

Imagine telling someone whose leg is caught in a beartrap, to shut up about pain.
Or someone who is thirsty, to shut up about water.
Or someone who is in jail, to shut up about escape.

They aren't happy with their lives being as good as it gets, without a relationship - which as I've said, is something a lot of people have been taking for granted as something that "just happens", since their teens - and being shut out of that experience makes you feel "different", in a "less than" way. It makes you feel like life itself is telling you you're not good enough, for what's normal for everyone else. I don't see why feeling that way is such a crime.

PS - I don't want to go off on you.
I agree on some of your other points, on this and other things, and you seem like a decent person.
It's just this one thing, that gets to me.

 

[TheRealCallie]

as good as it gets

See, this is the problem with a lot of people. It shouldn't be about "as good as it gets"....Instead, it should be "As good as YOU MAKE IT" I'm sorry, but there are so many options and opportunities out there for EVERYONE, regardless of what issues you might or whatever. If you focus so much as the negative aspects, that negativity is going to rule your life in other areas. So instead, focus on what you can do right now, make goals and set about accomplishing them. Include smaller, easier goals so that you can check those off the list and build your confidence. You can't change how women are going to feel or whether or not they are going to reject you. Plain and simple, everyone gets rejected (yes, even the popular, top 10%), so if you aren't ready to deal with rejection, focus on something else until you are. Fix your honeysuckle, fix your other life situations and maybe, just maybe you'll find that either you mind so much anymore or honeysuckle will just fall into place in other areas when your confidence and success is better.

But, one thing I do know.....don't try and you'll never succeed. Make excuses and you'll never do anything.

 

[Mr. Preuss]

At the same time, I still do feel like a lot of people around me, and people I know personally, just kind of fell into relationships though, and took it for granted as a normal part of life. Go to school, get friends, get a job, get a relationship, etc. - the natural progression of life in the modern world. I think I wasn't able to do it because I always had a hard time integrating into that because of my insecurities and hesitation to decide on a "self", a "me". I think I overthink, whereas a lot of people don't think at all, they just stay more or less the same person their entire lives, and by luck, it was strong enough in some area to integrate themselves into the game. All the Johnny Dudebro types put zero thought into their lives - it's like they've been the same person every year since kindergarten - they just so happen to be physically strong enough, and have good enough careers, to be confident in themselves, happy with their lives, and as a result attract someone - they also have a bigger pool of women looking for that kind of guy, so that helps as well. But then again I kind of had to think more, because I didn't feel like I had the strength to fit in anywhere right away, like them - so I had to think more about where I could belong. I don't have the strength in any area to fit in naturally, so I have to figure it out consciously. If I was a more "regular" guy, I think I could do better. But I don't think I'm so far away from that, that I can't learn to be it - if I untangle my old stories. What I am by default isn't good enough - I have to reinvent myself, and that takes more thinking, observing, researching options, getting a "feel" for what's "me", and so on.

Of course, everybody - or nearly everybody - around us is just an NPC, we, the protagonists of our own lives, are the only ones that experience character development, that partake in the difficulties and transcendental experiences of the narrative we are part of, everybody else is just there for the background, the scenery and so on. Or are they? I get it, it's easy to see things that way, but that's not entirely true either, is it? I guess what all of this should teach you is that you all would benefit from observing other people's lives more keenly, you all would benefit from engaging in a true appreciation of the nature of human existence. It would dispel many of your illusions and make your life much better in the end, that's all I've been trying to say.

See I don't really get it when people say things like this.

If someone is having a major problem in their lives, that problem tends to dominate their thoughts.

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.

Telling people to shut up about the problem, doesn't make them stop having it.

Imagine telling someone whose leg is caught in a beartrap, to shut up about pain.
Or someone who is thirsty, to shut up about water.
Or someone who is in jail, to shut up about escape.

They aren't happy with their lives being as good as it gets, without a relationship - which as I've said, is something a lot of people have been taking for granted as something that "just happens", since their teens - and being shut out of that experience makes you feel "different", in a "less than" way. It makes you feel like life itself is telling you you're not good enough, for what's normal for everyone else. I don't see why feeling that way is such a crime.

I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm legitimately trying to help. If three months ago I had seen this same thread, or a similar one, and three months later you or someone else posted a thread saying "Yay! I FINALLY got a GIRLFRIEND!!!", I would say "congratulations! I hope this means happiness to you and I hope it all goes well from now on!" etc., but no! Instead, it's the same kind of post by mostly the same people, for years and years and years on end. I'm not complaining, this is, indeed, after all, a vent space, but if your strategy has been failing for years and years and years on end, and it has resulted in wasted efforts and much, much frustration (as it seems to be the case), maybe you should change your strategy, no? I'm only giving you reasons (correct, truthful reasons as I see them) for you to not care so much about women and sex, I'm not ORDERING (lol) you to stop caring about them, really.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Of course, everybody - or nearly everybody - around us is just an NPC, we, the protagonists of our own lives, are the only ones that experience character development, that partake in the difficulties and transcendental experiences of the narrative we are part of, everybody else is just there for the background, the scenery and so on. Or are they? I get it, it's easy to see things that way, but that's not entirely true either, is it? I guess what all of this should teach you is that you all would benefit from observing other people's lives more keenly, you all would benefit from engaging in a true appreciation of the nature of human existence. It would dispel many of your illusions and make your life much better in the end, that's all I've been trying to say.

I get what you're saying. And I also get that Facebook only shows a portion of what a person is really like - and it's a curated portion at that. But I've looked over the profiles of those kinds of people from growing up, wondering to myself, "am I judging them too harshly?", "am I wrong about them altogether?", "did I miss out on anything?". But I came away feeling like, no, I'm not judging them harshly, I'm not wrong about them, and I didn't miss out (which actually made me feel better - I wasn't denied anything I would have even liked, so I shouldn't have felt insulted and "lesser" about it in the first place). It just wasn't my scene. Even now, reading their thoughts, it's like a time warp to the early 2000s (dating myself, I guess). They're still liking the same things, thinking the same things, even talking in the same style.

In other words, yeah, I do think some people live their lives on autopilot, and for the lucky ones it just so happens to be what society or biology says is "correct". So they don't HAVE to think about it like I do.

I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm legitimately trying to help. If three months ago I had seen this same thread, or a similar one, and three months later you or someone else posted a thread saying "Yay! I FINALLY got a GIRLFRIEND!!!", I would say "congratulations! I hope this means happiness to you and I hope it all goes well from now on!" etc., but no! Instead, it's the same kind of post by mostly the same people, for years and years and years on end. I'm not complaining, this is, indeed, after all, a vent space, but if your strategy has been failing for years and years and years on end, and it has resulted in wasted efforts and much, much frustration (as it seems to be the case), maybe you should change your strategy, no? I'm only giving you reasons (correct, truthful reasons as I see them) for you to not care so much about women and sex, I'm not ORDERING (lol) you to stop caring about them, really.

Yeah - definition of insanity, and all that. But at the same time, a person really can get to the point where video games and other media, hobbies, travel, substances, and so on, can only do so much for you, and you start to feel like you're not even enjoying it but just doing it as a distraction. It all becomes like fidgeting around in a waiting room.

---

I appreciate that you are trying to be helpful. And for that, I'm trying not to be flippant. It's just that this is a very difficult situation, but one that it seems a lot of people don't struggle with at all, so when it seems like you're one of the ones it's a struggle for, you feel literally singled out.

 

[Unsigned]

That look hasn’t been my experience. If anything, quite the opposite. One made me feel more adored than I have ever felt in my life.

(Don’t assume I’ve experienced paid sex many times. Less than a handful actually.)

Most of them (and there have been a lot) have treated me rather well.
Especially when they can tell I find them attractive.
I mean the escorts I have been seeing since the mid 90s.

As for the streetwalkers I saw in the 80s...a handful were nice. And I was loyal to them as a regular.. Most of them had disdain for the clients.
I was flummoxed how well I was treated the first time I saw an upscale escort vs how most streetwalkers treated me.
In fact, I think being treated that way the first 10 years of my "sex life" heavily contributed to me being "messed up" (among other things like grade school & high school of course).