All I ever wanted ...

[VanillaCreme]

The bickering, back and forth doesn't need to happen. We don't all have to agree on ideals about life or what we do in it.

 

[Somnambulist]

And you aren't seeming to understand that while you may SAY one thing, your ACTIONS are saying a completely different thing.  Actions speak louder than words.  

I can SAY I love a nice juicy steak or hamburger, but my ACTIONS (or lack thereof) will tell you that I don't.  Actions are far more believable than words. They always will be.

The far more important question I have for you is ... what is your objective here ? Is it to convince me I'm "wrong" ? That is impossible because this is a subjective matter. And, I'm not moving in my stance.

Besides, most people here already agree with you and disagree with me, so haven't you already succeeded in your mission ? You've got a 99% approval rating. I've been universally shunned, again. Game over. I lose.

All we're doing is exchanging witty wisea$$ questions to attempt to prove the other person wrong ... a futile endeavor. Not really constructive or helpful to anyone in any way. Now, if this were a healthy discussion where ideas were being exchanged, I'd happily continue. But, I think we hit a brick wall quite a few posts ago, so why don't we just agree to disagree and put this to rest ?


[img=382x250]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wzDZ2dZJMC4/T1lfNrL8lJI/AAAAAAAACAY/7Qy26wUOiOI/s1600/white+flag.jpg[/img]

 

[Somnambulist]

The bickering, back and forth doesn't need to happen. We don't all have to agree on ideals about life or what we do in it.

Yes. Ja. Si. Oui.

Thank you ! Danke. Gracias. Merci.

(This is the other message I've tried conveying, a few times by now)

 

[Somnambulist]

I would like to close this thread (with others' permission and blessings) with this statement:

In my quest for that amazing woman, I'd happily settle for either of these two amazingly talented and gorgeous young musicians - Caroline Polachek (right) or Claire Elise Boucher (center) ... if they'd have me

[img=701x538]http://media.gettyimages.com/photos...ecial-guests-alexis-picture-id495968496[/img]

 

[VanillaCreme]

And, I'm not moving in my stance.

And you're not expected to, nor should you ever have to.

(This is the other message I've tried conveying, a few times by now)

I know. I saw. Sometimes, issues deflate on their own, but I could see the back and forth continuing with it.


Also, I don't know who those ladies are, but I love the one's leather jacket.

 

[ardour]

The way you talked about it, ardour, I got the idea you meant something like "what's the point of advancing in a career if you don't have anyone when you come back home". Tell me if I'm wrong. To me it's actually simpler if you're single, and I think in that case advancing career is not as big a problem than if you had a family. In fact if I had a wife and children, I may actually sacrifice advancing in a career that caused me to almost never be home, and settle for a "lower" position (if of course I were already earning enough money to support my family), in order to be able to spend time with them.

So, the way I see it, a family might cause you to stop advancing your career, rather than forcibly advancing it.

Of course maybe you meant what if I get married etc.. when I already have such a career that makes me far from home very often. That's another matter completely. In any case, whatever you'd decide, hopefully in that case you'd have a very supportive significant other and that will motivate you even in the case where you choose (together hopefully) to continue advancing your career and spending less time home.

Do tell me if I missed any point you intended to make.

Afraid you've misunderstood. And from your reply I think we may have different mindsets. You might view this as the perspective of someone who is lazy and directionless. So bet it.

As said I struggle to see the point of all the hard work just to end up alone. It might benefit the economy and others ultimately, but that isn't compelling enough motivation. By not prioritizing career at least they'll be spare time for  interests and time to relax outside work: something to look forward to that fills the gap where a relationship/family life might have been. Being single while working a 60+ hour week, plus the inevitable time spent studying and upskilling sounds like it could be a life of unrelenting boredom. I'm not sure I'd even want to be alive for it.

Obviously there are people who love their jobs and gain satisfaction from them, but it's doubtful that the average office drone, or a majority of people, could honestly say this.

"Then don't be an average office drone" you say: if I could find something I really enjoyed it's still doubtful it would be THAT immersing and make me happy enough for the absence of a relationship and spare time not to matter. Career isn't enough. It's what the OP is saying also.

Hope that was clear.

(Edit: just realized that Paraiyar has summed it up more succinctly)

 

[Somnambulist]

Also, I don't know who those ladies are, but I love the one's leather jacket.

Caroline Polachek is "Chairlift", and Claire Elise Boucher is "Grimes". They're singers. The third one might be Satan's mistress, for all I know.

 

[Meaw]

And all I wanted was your arms around me
An embrace to chase the fear away
Not for you to breathe it
until it was a part of us
and not for you to question what I said
but to listen to my truths instead
And I miss the laughter and the life
Everything you picked apart
Who knows, maybe there was a secret message
for only those who could look for hours
at a completely commonly ordinary sentence
Everything I wanted was your smile
Not for you to erase mine
Everything you feared was what never happened
I did not leave you for someone else
I left you for you

 

[Somnambulist]

And all I wanted was your arms around me
An embrace to chase the fear away
Not for you to breathe it
until it was a part of us
and not for you to question what I said
but to listen to my truths instead
And I miss the laughter and the life
Everything you picked apart
Who knows, maybe there was a secret message
for only those who could look for hours
at a completely commonly ordinary sentence
Everything I wanted was your smile
Not for you to erase mine
Everything you feared was what never happened
I did not leave you for someone else
I left you for you

Wow, that is deep ! Thank you for sharing !

 

[Paraiyar]

Somnambulist, I do understand where you're coming from but I can't help but wonder if the thing about you wanting someone who is willing to spend every waking moment of the day with you is ultimately preventing you from getting out of this situation. I can't imagine anyone actually being capable of that.

 

[Hopetracer]

Not working isn’t an option, and of course we shouldn’t expect society to support us just because we aren’t happy,  but the low likelihood of finding aa partner does make you wonder what the point of progressing a career is sometimes. Coming home to an empty flat with no-one to share your life with makes it tempting  want to give it away and do something a less stressful.

What may happen to someone in a draining job they are not motivated to do, is that at some point they get so frustrated that want to quit it, but necessities of life hit them so hard and make them get back to working again.

As you said not working isn't an option, because working is a needed for survival. The only option is to change jobs but deterministic limitations and circumstances may make it impossible. I keep people with wealth and savings not to work, out of my point.


When it comes to finding partners, the consensus is that it isn't needed for survival. Whether the idea of consensus is right regarding this would be a long discussion without conclusion unless we say the side agreeing with consensus is right by the virtue of being majority. The countering thought may be "But some people suffer so much without a partner in their life that they go insane...they may lose motivation in many activities. It brings down quality of life..."

Considering the consensus, I don't think it's uncommon to see criticism against countering thought goes to the point of "you can choose not to be brought down by it" or "If you can't function in your life, it is because you consciously think about it too much and in a sense want it." However no one has ever found out if human desire is a conscious decision or it's hardwired which makes human decisions subjective to it. It's possible both are true but which side weighs more isn't known.

That is said, I agree with the point that finding a partner is dependent on actions and preferences of another human being. We are only responsible and in control of our own actions and preferences and it isn't right to manipulate or control someone else. If one day the partner decides to leave, we can't force them not to, it's out of our control. I also understand the feeling of suffering and loneliness caused by being single and not having a partner.

I guess there are only two options for us, 1. to suck it up, forget about matter of partnering completely, spend time and energy on other aspects of life  2. to suck it up, be open to matter of finding a partner which takes time and energy that could be spent on other aspects of life

The former guarantees being single, the latter might have slight chance of life progressing in a way that leads to having a partner in life. That chance is relatively more for some people than the other.


Speaking generally, on an unrelated note to the topic of thread, there are lonely people on the forum who has the feeling they have never been understood by anyone. When they are voicing an issue or concern, it's possible an emotional baggage is attached to it. Delivering logical hard facts while at the same time being careful about their feelings would make our helpful and good intentions more effective, if they are our intentions in the first place.

Unless there is no emotions attached to issue, I don't think saying facts in a blunt way without taking the other person's emotions into the account would bring maximum help. If any of us have a tendency to do it, the other person would get defensive and consequently feel more misunderstood. Drama starts between friends who have known each others for years, caused by this matter. Let alone when a member talks to strangers or people they barely know here in the forum.

 

[Meaw]

Well, I want the same from a partner (though a younger one ), which most people seem frightened by. The difficulty is to find a balance between staying together and not controlling everything the other one does, or worry about everything one cannot monitor. I have similar tendencies in other areas - I want things to do all the time, if I'm back from a vacation I'm literally bored to death five minutes later, and I have rested/ relaxed less than one hour in my life in total and felt good about the outcome (i.e. relaxed, which was the meaning). People say one needs to slow down and just be, but it does not work good for me. Being in the middle of something, active, is how I relax. And I have yet not met a single other person that works like that.

Everyone just works differently. What one person is looking for and dreams of cannot be belittled by others, since it's not really their dreams. Dreaming is one thing. That's perfectly fine. As long as peoples dreams converge, they can become reality as well. The thing is to not force anyone into anything, and to be unselfish. Caring. Seeing.

And thanks for the poem praise There are people out there that want to spend all time together, it's just the road to finding them that is troublesome. Good luck!

 

[Somnambulist]

Well, I want the same from a partner (though a younger one ), which most people seem frightened by. The difficulty is to find a balance between staying together and not controlling everything the other one does, or worry about everything one cannot monitor. I have similar tendencies in other areas - I want things to do all the time, if I'm back from a vacation I'm literally bored to death five minutes later, and I have rested/ relaxed less than one hour in my life in total and felt good about the outcome (i.e. relaxed, which was the meaning). People say one needs to slow down and just be, but it does not work good for me. Being in the middle of something, active, is how I relax. And I have yet not met a single other person that works like that.

Everyone just works differently. What one person is looking for and dreams of cannot be belittled by others, since it's not really their dreams. Dreaming is one thing. That's perfectly fine. As long as peoples dreams converge, they can become reality as well. The thing is to not force anyone into anything, and to be unselfish. Caring. Seeing.

And thanks for the poem praise There are people out there that want to spend all time together, it's just the road to finding them that is troublesome. Good luck!

Thank you, and yes, I agree with you. I also really like your writing style ... very direct and honest. You're an interesting cat !

 

[Somnambulist]

Somnambulist, I do understand where you're coming from but I can't help but wonder if the thing about you wanting someone who is willing to spend every waking moment of the day with you is ultimately preventing you from getting out of this situation. I can't imagine anyone actually being capable of that.

You are probably right. I don't expect to find anyone, yet I can't let go of who I am.

 

[Meaw]

I think like this - If I write in an honest way, hopefully people won't have to bother decoding what might be between the lines. That way, energy is saved. And I, who know how much a tiny bit of energy can be worth, want to help others saving their bits.
Also, I blame the poetic mind of mine

 

[Somnambulist]

I think like this - If I write in an honest way, hopefully people won't have to bother decoding what might be between the lines. That way, energy is saved. And I, who know how much a tiny bit of energy can be worth, want to help others saving their bits.
Also, I blame the poetic mind of mine

Very true and very thoughtful. You sure are obsessed with the notion of energy

 

[ardour]

When it comes to finding partners, the consensus is that it isn't needed for survival. Whether the idea of consensus is right regarding this would be a long discussion without conclusion unless we say the side agreeing with consensus is right by the virtue of being majority. The countering thought may be "But some people suffer so much without a partner in their life that they go insane...they may lose motivation in many activities. It brings down quality of life..."

It could be argued that the unhappily single person is less emotionally stable and therefore not as capable of coping with stress.

There's less desire to be productive for other reasons though: Less to live up to, less to look forward to, obviously no dependants requiring support. A desire for immediate comfort instead of focusing on long-term goals. And the common retort to this is always some variation of "Stop wanting things"

 

[Meaw]

Ardour, do you mean common retort from oneself, the world around, or both? Otherwise, I cannot anything else but agree

 

[lilE]

lol

 

[ardour]

@Meaw


From others, obviously. It's a fairly common thing said to those considered either too physically unattractive or dull and uninteresting to be in relationships.

The only way to be accepted is to behave as like sort of modern eunuch without the normal human desires of your partnered-up betters. Do your job, buy your groceries, go home to an empty place, get up next day and do the same thing. Be completely satisfied.