Evolutionary Biologist: Many men will no longer find a sexual partner

[mgill]

https://tinyurl.com/28t8k57h

 

[Aardra]

For the record - and I will not respond to argument, because I find this topic exhausting - evolutionary biology as a field, especially as it applies to evolutionary psychology, is plagued by confirmation bias and selective research.

 

[user 115627]

Since I'm German I recognized the source as something I heard about a week ago and it should be mentioned that the author of the book that is being presented here, who is the evolutionary biologist in question, is making the case for a resurgence of female mate choice (like it is more typical in the animal kingdom, even if there are exceptions). To summarize, she thinks that monogamous marriage was made to enslave women while reducing sexual competition between men and suggests to abolish the concept itself and to find other solutions to deal with the leftover men (aka incels) which will otherwise become more dangerous in a society that increasingly liberates women and allows individual choice.

Having said that, make up your own mind about these ideas and how much those agree or disagree with your world view. As for myself, I've seen that argument being made from people multiple decades ago already with even more "radical solutions" being proposed.

 

[mgill]

Since I'm German I recognized the source as something I heard about a week ago and it should be mentioned that the author of the book that is being presented here, who is the evolutionary biologist in question, is making the case for a resurgence of female mate choice (like it is more typical in the animal kingdom, even if there are exceptions). To summarize, she thinks that monogamous marriage was made to enslave women while reducing sexual competition between men and suggests to abolish the concept itself and to find other solutions to deal with the leftover men (aka incels) which will otherwise become more dangerous in a society that increasingly liberates women and allows individual choice.

Having said that, make up your own mind about these ideas and how much those agree or disagree with your world view. As for myself, I've seen that argument being made from people multiple decades ago already with even more "radical solutions" being proposed.

i don't have an opinion on her views about marriage & monogmy but her research does serve to reinforce the fact that most women are all chasing only top males & are not in the least interested in the rest of us. one does not have to be an incel ( i most certainly am not one) to be excluded from the modern dating market-just being an average or below average male is enough for this.

---

For the record - and I will not respond to argument, because I find this topic exhausting - evolutionary biology as a field, especially as it applies to evolutionary psychology, is plagued by confirmation bias and selective research.

these studies may be done to death but there is a good reason for this as many people are still in denial of the fact that looks & height are of primary importance for women when looking for a relationship. the men who do not measure up (pun intended) are pretty much SOL in our search for a partner.

 

[user 115627]

i don't have an opinion on her views about marriage & monogmy but her research does serve to reinforce the fact that most women are all chasing only top males & are not in the least interested in the rest of us. one does not have to be an incel ( i most certainly am not one) to be excluded from the modern dating market-just being an average or below average male is enough for this.

Then you are stretching the basic premise of what that particular person is saying right now while ignoring everything else that informs her position. I would suggest not to do that, it also reminds me of the thread where you interpreted someone's satire for your own purposes.

Furthermore, the article does not address what is considered a top male and does not mention the relevance of looks or height at any point...perhaps you should read her book once it's translated. There's also a quote where she says that in the past 70% of women copulated with 35% of men but the article does not state anything about the status quo and the definitive state of the modern environment.

What is your goal, mgill? Hypothetically, even if we assume that her research holds up, your drawn conclusions are correct and these are all unquestionable facts, what's the endgame?

 

[mgill]

i don't have an opinion on her views about marriage & monogmy but her research does serve to reinforce the fact that most women are all chasing only top males & are not in the least interested in the rest of us. one does not have to be an incel ( i most certainly am not one) to be excluded from the modern dating market-just being an average or below average male is enough for this.

Then you are stretching the basic premise of what that particular person is saying right now while ignoring everything else that informs her position. I would suggest not to do that, it also reminds me of the thread where you interpreted someone's satire for your own purposes.

Furthermore, the article does not address what is considered a top male and does not mention the relevance of looks or height at any point...perhaps you should read her book once it's translated. There's also a quote where she says that in the past 70% of women copulated with 35% of men but the article does not state anything about the status quo and the definitive state of the modern environment.

What is your goal, mgill? Hypothetically, even if we assume that her research holds up, your drawn conclusions are correct and these are all unquestionable facts, what's the endgame?

you misunderstood my point.  i was not commenting on her basic premise but instead on the foundation of her basic premise which is that physical attraction is key for women and that they are only interested in the most physically attractive men.  what charactertistics a top male has is quite objective and science based.  just look at 95% of popular movie stars and close to 100% of male models and see what they all have in common.

the 20/80 pareto principal has been proven to be accurate for OLD & now this has moved to offline dating as well.  my goal is to expose how critical a man's face & height are to his dating & relationship success or failure.  this makes things very difficult for the average male and virtually impossible for a below average male like myself.

the bottom line is that the qualitites which most women like to claim attract them to a man are not the one's which they actually do find attractive and what they are really interested in first and foremost is a man's physical characteristics based on his genetics. it is the firm denial of this which causes so many people (both women & men) to always blame a man's lack of success with women on a lack of effort, social skill or personality flaw as opposed to admitting that some men are just too genetically inferior for women to ever be attacted to them.  doubtless there are some men who could ppssibly succeed if they put in more effort or sharpened their social skills but to put all of us in the same category of failing due to aspects completely under our control is simply false & misleading.

 

[user 115627]

you misunderstood my point.  i was not commenting on her basic premise but instead on the foundation of her basic premise which is that physical attraction is key for women and that they are only interested in the most physically attractive men.  what charactertistics a top male has is quite objective and science based.  just look at 95% of popular movie stars and close to 100% of male models and see what they all have in common.

the 20/80 pareto principal has been proven to be accurate for OLD & now this has moved to offline dating as well.  my goal is to expose how critical a man's face & height are to his dating & relationship success or failure.  this makes things very difficult for the average male and virtually impossible for a below average male like myself.

the bottom line is that the qualitites which most women like to claim attract them to a man are not the one's which they actually do find attractive and what they are really interested in first and foremost is a man's physical characteristics based on his genetics. it is the firm denial of this which causes so many people (both women & men) to always blame a man's lack of success with women on a lack of effort, social skill or personality flaw as opposed to admitting that some men are just too genetically inferior for women to ever be attacted to them.  doubtless there are some men who could ppssibly succeed if they put in more effort or sharpened their social skills but to put all of us in the same category of failing due to aspects completely under our control is simply false & misleading.

How does that work together with the matching hypothesis though? Even if women would go for the top 20% of physically attractive men they are still unable to enter relationships with them because these men in all likelihood are not interested in having a harem which will lead to most women having to adjust their expectations, the same way men would after repeated rejection. Or is your preposition that they would rather remain alone, chasing attention and one-night-stands with male models forever, than settling with someone roughly on their level of attractiveness? The fact aside that both sexes still engage in trade-offs of attractiveness for secondary characteristics because you can aim as high as you like, but eventually you'll have to compromise...or not?

On the individual level, even if these "facts" were suddenly agreed upon and acknowledged in every society, wouldn't that still leave these average and below-average men alone? I can understand how it would provide some relief if people would not painstakingly attempt to attribute every personal failure to a lack of effort or skills instead of taking inherent and systemic reasons into account, but wouldn't the consequence be the same? Eternal solitude for the unfortunate?

 

[mgill]

you misunderstood my point.  i was not commenting on her basic premise but instead on the foundation of her basic premise which is that physical attraction is key for women and that they are only interested in the most physically attractive men.  what charactertistics a top male has is quite objective and science based.  just look at 95% of popular movie stars and close to 100% of male models and see what they all have in common.

the 20/80 pareto principal has been proven to be accurate for OLD & now this has moved to offline dating as well.  my goal is to expose how critical a man's face & height are to his dating & relationship success or failure.  this makes things very difficult for the average male and virtually impossible for a below average male like myself.

the bottom line is that the qualitites which most women like to claim attract them to a man are not the one's which they actually do find attractive and what they are really interested in first and foremost is a man's physical characteristics based on his genetics. it is the firm denial of this which causes so many people (both women & men) to always blame a man's lack of success with women on a lack of effort, social skill or personality flaw as opposed to admitting that some men are just too genetically inferior for women to ever be attacted to them.  doubtless there are some men who could ppssibly succeed if they put in more effort or sharpened their social skills but to put all of us in the same category of failing due to aspects completely under our control is simply false & misleading.

How does that work together with the matching hypothesis though? Even if women would go for the top 20% of physically attractive men they are still unable to enter relationships with them because these men in all likelihood are not interested in having a harem which will lead to most women having to adjust their expectations, the same way men would after repeated rejection. Or is your preposition that they would rather remain alone, chasing attention and one-night-stands with male models forever, than settling with someone roughly on their level of attractiveness? The fact aside that both sexes still engage in trade-offs of attractiveness for secondary characteristics because you can aim as high as you like, but eventually you'll have to compromise...or not?

On the individual level, even if these "facts" were suddenly agreed upon and acknowledged in every society, wouldn't that still leave these average and below-average men alone? I can understand how it would provide some relief if people would not painstakingly attempt to attribute every personal failure to a lack of effort or skills instead of taking inherent and systemic reasons into account, but wouldn't the consequence be the same? Eternal solitude for the unfortunate?

yes-i think most women are only interested in men well above their own looks level & would rather share a high value male or stay alone than to "settle" for the other 80% of lesser males.  the problem they have is that although good looking men may sleep with women who are not at their looks level they have no reason to commit to them long term. so when the women who have fun in their 20's & 30's with these top men are ready to settle down, they are confused & frustrated as to why the same men are not at all interested in a monogamous LTR. for example there is a female dating coach who made a video about how she stopped matchmaking for women because they have such insanely high standards.  i'll post it in a new thread.

i'm not sure what benefit would be gained if people started to acknowledge these uncomfortable truths. i do know that most men would be very satisfied with a women who is on their own level.  perhaps exposing it will help women to become more realistic about their own standards and having firm deal breakers as opposed to preferences.

 

[4No1]

I think it's not all over the world. Here there is an opposite situation. If a man don't drink don't beat his wife and earn some money - in most case he's almost a hero. If he does some homework - he is. I suppose it's mostly due to the economical reasons as women have less salary and also a beuaty-indusrty is quite huge. On the other hand money is the decisive factor of men's succues if they prefer the up-average women. The men's appearance here is not a real factor at the time. The situation is changing but slowly and this changing are not supported by the goverment. I'm sure the average woman here would be satisfied with any social-normal(I mean non alcoholic, non drug-addicted, non abuser etc) man as getting married is set as a goal for girls and it's a factor of women's succes.  

P.S. But probably most women can find just a sexual partner for a night if it is a purpose. Biologycally males loose only a few calories while female's quite risk bringing up the strange kids and men are also stronger what means also for women a risk to get into a trouble if we are talking of a one-night contacts. So females have to be more legible in their sexual contacts.

 

[mgill]

I think it's not all over the world. Here there is an opposite situation. If a man don't drink don't beat his wife and earn some money - in most case he's almost a hero. If he does some homework - he is. I suppose it's mostly due to the economical reasons as women have less salary and also a beuaty-indusrty is quite huge. On the other hand money is the decisive factor of men's succues if they prefer the up-average women. The men's appearance here is not a real factor at the time. The situation is changing but slowly and this changing are not supported by the goverment. I'm sure the average woman here would be satisfied with any social-normal(I mean non alcoholic, non drug-addicted, non abuser etc) man as getting married is set as a goal for girls and it's a factor of women's succes.  

P.S. But probably most women can find just a sexual partner for a night if it is a purpose. Biologycally males loose only a few calories while female's quite risk bringing up the strange kids and men are also stronger what means also for women a risk to get into a trouble if we are talking of a one-night contacts. So females have to be more legible in their sexual contacts.

i have heard that this is the case in some other countries- it is most certainly the case in places like the US, Canada & the UK though.  some have suggested that relocating is a possible solution but it requires a tremendous amount of risk with still no no guarantee of success.  quitting your job & moving to another country where you don't know the culture or language is a major life change to say the least.  the fact that men even consider doing this is an indication of how dire the situation actually is for so many of us.

 

[4No1]

I agree about the relication as I've thought of it. There is smth strange(can't think of a more appropriate word) that in different countries there are opposite extremes as the balance would be best. The universe probably has a specific sense of humor.
It seems to me that humans do avoid a balance in most social aspects of the life.

 

[user 115627]

Most people do not live in highly-developed first-world nations like the US, Canada, UK and Northern/Central Europe where people individually choose their partners on a mostly open dating market. If the culture is not generally more traditional with fixed gender roles then even the parents might have a greater say in what partner their children end up with than the individuals themselves. Marriage and relationships are borderline mythologized in first-world nations sometimes while they were deliberate social and economical arrangements for the majority of history and still are in many places. If you crave a more traditional arrangement you will either have to move as it has been suggested or you try your luck at "mail order brides". Scams aside, it won't make you happier to be appreciated for your hard-earned bank account than for genetic fortitude.

Russia is quite a "special" place with its century old history of state-funded (or formerly monarchy-funded) alcohol abuse with the consequences being not just higher rates of spousal abuse, but also suicides, homicides, car accidents, illnesses and all kinds of tragedies that cover up a lot of corruption and inequality in the country. I have an online friend with Russian ancestry who later moved to Germany and they mentioned how binge drinking was quite popular among teenagers already and I'm glad he got out of there instead of figuratively (or literally) drowning in that culture.

 

[ardour]

I've posted this before: https://www.joe.ie/life-style/amount-men-30-not-***-nearly-tripled-past-decade-663846 (last graph)

I agree with Rodent that marriage is or was essentially an arrangement. However widespread monogamy has a stabilizing effect.

 

[mgill]

Most people do not live in highly-developed first-world nations like the US, Canada, UK and Northern/Central Europe where people individually choose their partners on a mostly open dating market. If the culture is not generally more traditional with fixed gender roles then even the parents might have a greater say in what partner their children end up with than the individuals themselves. Marriage and relationships are borderline mythologized in first-world nations sometimes while they were deliberate social and economical arrangements for the majority of history and still are in many places. If you crave a more traditional arrangement you will either have to move as it has been suggested or you try your luck at "mail order brides". Scams aside, it won't make you happier to be appreciated for your hard-earned bank account than for genetic fortitude.

Russia is quite a "special" place with its century old history of state-funded (or formerly monarchy-funded) alcohol abuse with the consequences being not just higher rates of spousal abuse, but also suicides, homicides, car accidents, illnesses and all kinds of tragedies that cover up a lot of corruption and inequality in the country. I have an online friend with Russian ancestry who later moved to Germany and they mentioned how binge drinking was quite popular among teenagers already and I'm glad he got out of there instead of figuratively (or literally) drowning in that culture.

i have never been out of the US so can only speak of things here. due to the marriage laws, mail order brides are the worst possible solution as it's very probable one would end up divorced & giving half of their wealth to their former spouse. personally, i have no interest in marriage for this & other reasons. getting the government involved with personal issues is a certain recipe for disaster.  imo a relationship should be based on two people who want to stay together by choice rather than under threat of the law.

---

I've posted this before:  https://www.joe.ie/life-style/amount-men-30-not-***-nearly-tripled-past-decade-663846  (last graph)

I agree with Rodent that marriage is or was essentially an arrangement.  However widespread monogamy has a stabilizing effect.

i have not seen this before but it is not surprising in the least.  in fact, it would be very interesting to see an updated version for 2020 since the graph is from 2018.  i would guess that it's currently significantly worse and will continue to get worse- not only due to the pandemic either. it would also be interesting to see a chart for men over 30 too.

 

[Azariah]

just go massage parlor and ask for happy ending lol.

 

[Abstamyous]

just go massage parlor and ask for happy ending lol.

Sounds like a great solution for a quickie.

Not really a solution for finding a partner, and maintaining a relationship.

 

[mgill]

just go massage parlor and ask for happy ending lol.

Sounds like a great solution for a quickie.

Not really a solution for finding a partner, and maintaining a relationship.

exactly-imo without mutual attraction & an emotional connection getting physical is empty, meaningless & often makes a man feel even worse. personally, i could never feel comfortable being physical with a stranger-especially for money.

 

[Sidewinder]

This is a comical thread... in the first place, studies & "research" like this are always biased one way or another, usually along political lines, and the 'evolutionary biologist' specifies "sexual partner" (NOT the love of a lifetime, lol). 

As a former OTR (or Over-The-Road) truck driver, I've been guilty of bangin' lot lizards in the sleeper of my truck... or simply gettin' head while drinking beer, aye? Not exactly the height of romance, lol... but in that separate reality, that's how it was.

In the transportation industry, many drivers want action without wasting time on socializing... they don't have the ******* time anyway, not in that ****** circus or rat race. So 'relationships' are necessarily brief, but that doesn't mean some aren't SPECIAL, lol.

I recall some black gal wanting to get things over and done, and I said to her, "I'll pay ya $40 just to shut up and drink beer!!!" Lol, damn, sometimes I slay myself. But we wound up having a good time, laughing our ***** off while rocking out and partying. 

I was born in a coastal town full of rich wanks (my family was military, so think dirt poor by comparison), and that town was full of ****** gold diggers who wouldn't even LOOK at ya if ya weren't driving some fancy car, lol. My friends & I called these gals 'sand crabs.'

Oh, once in awhile, when some sand crab's search for her rich Romeo failed, and she was drunk enough to consort with commoners, then I'd wind up bangin' the hook, lol... but as far as romance went, well, that didn't even rate as a factor.

I once worked in a condo tower on the beach, and this tower was full of rich ********, yeah? Some total kook & ugly ****** told me one night, "Gold diggers are GREAT! Ya take 'em out, ya **** 'em, and ya send 'em on down the road!!!"

It strikes me that if some of you lonely types here at this site had more money, perhaps you'd treat women better... perhaps not. I ain't no ****** fortune teller, lol, I've just seen too much of the rotten human race. And I once sprayed classical poetry by the yard, lol.

I even went through a phase and WROTE some poetry, which is posted here at this site... in the 'Express Yourself' forum, I believe. But the bottom line is that this country is under assault, including traditional marriages and solid family values. Globalist trash, of course.

The dirty globalist swine know they can't run the world without first running the U.S., or DESTROYING it, which is what we're seeing today with all the fraudulent ********. Kinda makes it harder to pick up a date, and who the **** wants to spend minute one with some leftist libtard?

Just another TOOL of dirty globalist swine, no pleasure to be found in dealing with the 'useful *****'---I'd sooner bang a truck stop lot lizard, at least SHE will make more sense, and I'm not judgmental in that respect, it's all about living in the moment.

Back in the day, a century or two ago, it was about lifetime commitment, but the dirty globalist swine and their media/Holywad **** ******* tools have pushed their agenda so hard that finding a traditional romantic mate is virtually impossible. PROGRAMMING, you understand...

WELCOME TO THE BRAVE NEW THIRD SOCIALIST WORLD, WHERE TRADITIONAL ROMANCE & MARRIAGE HAVE GONE THE WAY OF THE ******* DINOSAUR!!! 

Hard to beat all that globalist-sponsored propaganda, that's for ****** sure... the 'Billionaire Boys Club' has deeper pockets than ANY of you schmucks here, and that includes ME. They can buy FILTHY ******* FRAUDULENT SCUMBAG SWAMP RAT POLITICIANS till the cows come home, don'tcha know?

Meh, I ain't getting any younger, and I only have so much more time left on this planet... the way these greedy & dirty globalist swine are ******* **** up, I reckon I'll be glad to go when my time comes. I feel sorry for the younger generation(s), they just don't know what's in store for them... they're ******* CLUELESS.

Moi, I was lucky enough to experience REAL FREEDOM, and perhaps a TOUCH OF OLD SCHOOL ROMANCE in my time... but if I HAD to deal with some leftist libtard scumbucket on a blind date tonight, I'd wind up stabbing that ignorant p.o.s. in the ******* neck with my salad fork, LOL. And I'd ENJOY doing it... CHEERS!!!