I Don't Think Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

[tedgresham]

the manhattan project was before the internet,

hell,

it was before many people had phones.

today information circles the globe in an instant

from ANYWHERE

your computer, your car, your phone...

very hard to orchestrate a conspiracy nowadays.

You're overrating the ability for news to get out and naive about the net. It's not as common as you might think, it's exceptionally fragmented, and there's so much crap everywhere that nobody believes anything. I aliens really did land on the Whitehouse lawn and a hundred phone cams caught it nobody would believe it. No, freedom of information via the net is an illusion, and a dangerous one to believe.

 

[SofiasMami]

I've orchestrated conspiracies.

*eagerly pulls up chair and sits down*
oh, do tell!


Yeah, the guy is dead. Conspiracy theorists never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
If he were alive, why is al Qaida talking about wanting to avenge his death? Are they in on it too? Where are the videos and tapes showing the guy calling for jihad? He certainly made a lot of recordings before 5/1/11 and none after that date. Or maybe he's in on the conspiracy too?
Plus, he was found in Pakistan, hiding in plain sight. Pakistan didn't exactly come out smelling like roses basically providing a safe haven for him. If he were still alive out there somewhere, seems like Pakistan would want to save face and point this out.

Teresa

 

[Badjedidude]

In my mind, there's no doubt he's dead. I find it odd how no one questions the death of countless other prominent terrorist leaders in drone attacks (where the target's stronghold is left a pile of rubble and the body pretty much disappears or gets burnt up!) but the minute it's Bin Laden and he gets shot everyone is questioning whether it happened, whether he's alive, etc. etc.

That's pretty much what I said. It makes sense.

Anything else is unneeded over-complication of the situation.

 

[IgnoredOne]

*eagerly pulls up chair and sits down*
oh, do tell!

Its nothing glorious or exciting, if that's what you were expecting. You sacrifice your life, time and effort so others can take credit and gently hope that it was all worth it when no one will ever appreciate you or even know your name.

 

[Bread]

I'm not much for politics or the like, but I believe he's dead. Cheaper and more practical to assassinate him now that he was no longer any use to the US.

 

[evanescencefan91]

dun dun duuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

Our history has proven repeatedly that our government cannot be trusted. They experimented on soldiers with LSD. They exposed hundreds of thousands to radiation. It's a rather long list. As a historian I've read quite a few accounts. Our government chooses to keep many secrets although our constitution calls for freedom and free flow of information. If they have nothing to hide I say throw open the doors of the CIA, FBI, and Homeland Security and let the people in. They don't. So...if something smells fishy there's usually something dead somewhere.

The problem is that ******** gets stirred up with discovered facts and obvious reality so much it's hard to tell one from the other. The Alex Joneses' of the world do not help matters. But the truth is that most evidence is hidden in plain view. All one needs do is dig deep enough. I've dug pretty deep. The dots are there, maybe not all, but enough to create a fairly good picture of dirty dealing and dastardly deeds.

On this subject, Osama? Who knows, if they did kill the guy it was just a publicity stunt for ratings. Even if they didn't, same thing. What's far more important are the atrocities and murders in Iraq and Afghanistan and who knows where else? And to the life of me I still have not figured out the justification for even being in Afghanistan now, other than fill up the pockets of military contractors. Ugh...

I think the thing is, every intelligence agency has to have secrets for obvious reasons, that's where the rumours of dishonesty begin because it's not possible to open them to public scrutiny yet maintain their effectiveness.

I don't think government authorised experiments like the LSD trials were ever morally justified and I'd say that was a big violation of public trust. Things like that shouldn't have been pursued, but of course rules and regulations were less stringent then.

However, I think most of the secrecy has to be in place in order to allow these organisations to do what they are "meant" to do (keep a country safe and so on).

I share your distaste for the entry to the "War on Terror". I remember reading that Tony Blair had been shown to have made significant profits since it started on contracts related to oil companies, weapon manufacturers and the like. It's disgusting really.

I can't speak for Bush, but Blair was quite an immoral scumbag, always looking for a quick buck and more power for himself, whether that came in the form of a foreign invasion or happily shaking hands with evil despots like Colonel Gaddafi. It shames my nation

Frankly I wonder what the point is when the British at least are fighting in a way that will never bring victory. I don't know about the USMC, but the Brits have this "softly softly" approach that seems to just leave them sitting around waiting to get killed. What's the point of being at "war" if you're not allowed to attack the people you're fighting?

 

[fightclub]

who knows or cares he killed a load of people and that is beyond words but his death wont change that.

What is happening in the Arab states at the moment now that is worth talking about they have brought about real change got rid of some real scum bags by getting to gether through IT via mobiles and face book thats real power to the people, dont you think??

---

 

[blackhole]

yah, those same "peace loving youth" gang-raped a female reporter in that square in egypt. over two-hundred of them! that's change we can all believe in...

they also screamed "die, jew" as they beat her about the head and face.

she wasn't jewish.

they weren't deterred.

evil exists.

 

[IgnoredOne]

yah, those same "peace loving youth" gang-raped a female reporter in that square in egypt. over two-hundred of them! that's change we can all believe in...

they also screamed "die, jew" as they beat her about the head and face.

she wasn't jewish.

they weren't deterred.

evil exists.

Human nature is one of love, understanding and compassion. Proof above.

 

[fightclub]

AT BLACKHOLE

Its still a step in the right direction Ok there was violence, that we dont like but overall its a step forward. You have to look forward and not let those who want to keep you in the dark ages hold you back blackhole I myself have come across unjust treatment but you have to loose the baggage and move forward. You can do this by confrontation or negotiation the latter takes longer but less blood is spilt and don’t think I am saying this from my nice arm chair. I live in a place ****** up by religion like the rest of the world but it is fading away people see it is just trouble and breads hate and I hope in the future more people see that to.

 

[IgnoredOne]

I won't argue that it is a step forward, but I wonder how much of it was really idealism and how much of it was ultimately just a backlash from rampant unemployment and misery. And the mob mentality, even when well-intentioned, often ends up falling prey to charismatic but misguided leaders. Most of the dictators, for example, all had great popular support once upon a time.

What happened in Egypt, for example, is marvelous - but there is a great deal of danger that it could end up ushering in something just as bad or worse. And perhaps unfortunately, it is one of the better examples. The aftermath of the French Revolution, for example, was a disaster by any definition.

I have a lot of Russian friends, and they have a tendency to be, well, pessimistic about the government no matter what happens. For better or worse, I find that their faith that one bunch of thieves driving out the other bunch of thieves until they are replaced by yet another bunch of thieves to be sadly accurate.

That said, I do agree that the ultimate repudiation of Osama Bin Laden came not from his death - as wonderful news as it was - but from the fact that the protesters did not take up his banner nor of their beliefs. A man is flesh and blood, frail to lead and time, but to defeat an idea is a divine thing.

 

[tedgresham]

I think the thing is, every intelligence agency has to have secrets for obvious reasons, that's where the rumours of dishonesty begin because it's not possible to open them to public scrutiny yet maintain their effectiveness.

I don't think government authorised experiments like the LSD trials were ever morally justified and I'd say that was a big violation of public trust. Things like that shouldn't have been pursued, but of course rules and regulations were less stringent then.

However, I think most of the secrecy has to be in place in order to allow these organisations to do what they are "meant" to do (keep a country safe and so on).

I share your distaste for the entry to the "War on Terror". I remember reading that Tony Blair had been shown to have made significant profits since it started on contracts related to oil companies, weapon manufacturers and the like. It's disgusting really.

I can't speak for Bush, but Blair was quite an immoral scumbag, always looking for a quick buck and more power for himself, whether that came in the form of a foreign invasion or happily shaking hands with evil despots like Colonel Gaddafi. It shames my nation

Frankly I wonder what the point is when the British at least are fighting in a way that will never bring victory. I don't know about the USMC, but the Brits have this "softly softly" approach that seems to just leave them sitting around waiting to get killed. What's the point of being at "war" if you're not allowed to attack the people you're fighting?

It is true that some things need to be kept secret or the true enemies of a country would have a great advantage. The Manhattan Project, for example, as horrible as nuclear war is, was a project that ended WWII far sooner and with less death than would have been otherwise. Another story/subject/thread.

There's a difference between a necessary amount of secrecy and a culture of secrecy, which is what we have now. EVERYTHING is secret. The CIA conducted a major study on climate change and then classified it secret. Why?

There is far, far more going on behind the scenes than anybody knows, even the spooks in their own little cubicles with their own little confusing pieces of the puzzle.

When there's a genuine threat and a genuine enemy if a government feels forced to deal with it should be swift and decisive. Lingering war like Vietnam, Iraq II, Afghanistan, now Libya and who knows where else, has only one purpose: feed military contractors. Little "victories" like the killing of O'sam are merely publicity stunts to boost public approval.

BTW, Bush is a ******* pawn. He was the convenient good'ol boy for the people behind the scenes. I'm not sure it's possible to explain the true meaning of good'ol boy unless one is steeped in the culture of the American south and Texas.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

BTW, Bush is a ******* pawn. He was the convenient good'ol boy for the people behind the scenes. I'm not sure it's possible to explain the true meaning of good'ol boy unless one is steeped in the culture of the American south and Texas.

I'm guessing it's someone seen to have the classical "homely and wholesome" American values that are stereotypical of Southern states since the frontier days?

I have a friend who is Texan and I did a study of the history of the American West ages ago, so that's my best shot at it

 

[tedgresham]

... I'm not sure it's possible to explain the true meaning of good'ol boy unless one is steeped in the culture of the American south and Texas.

I'm guessing it's someone seen to have the classical "homely and wholesome" American values that are stereotypical of Southern states since the frontier days?

I have a friend who is Texan and I did a study of the history of the American West ages ago, so that's my best shot at it

No, I'm afraid not. Hmm... let's see... the image of a good'ol boy is a big guy in baggy slacks, colorful suspenders, a rather large cigar burned down to a stub clenched in teeth to one side of his mouth. He is pudgy, short hair slightly ruffled. He wears cowboy boots (of course!). Sort'of like an American car salesman image but not quite. He is buddies with all the other good'ol boys in town, who are usually the mayor, sheriff, business owners. They're a club, often ruthless, always self-serving, bigoted, and self-righteous. Most are Baptist or Methodist or some old mainstream denomination. They are chauvinists. Women rarely get any recognition... barefoot and pregnant is the view. They talk with a drawl and often appear stupid but they're much smarter than they look. They use stooges, sometimes, to do their dirty work. Bush has their mannerisms, talked their hick-talk, but he was not one of them, he was a stooge.

Of course the typical good'ol boy doesn't quite look like that but that's their roots and all of them, whether it's the local sheriff in our town or some sharp dressed city slicker type, good'ol boy is a fixture in Texas and they run most of it. Sad but true.