(Mini rant) Can you be too attractive to have problems?

[NoxApex(N/A)]

I got 30 seconds in and had to stop it. That was enough to make me want to punch through a wall.
more apropos title: "obnoxious, grating on your nerves and irking your soul problems"

I reiterate: 50 Cents.

 

[Rohini]

My take on it, from what little of know of you and purely going off my meandering around some topics here and there, and also taking into account experiences I've had on other forums:

It all boils down to wrong perceptions. People have wrong perceptions about others most of the time.

Being depressed isn't exclusive to people who are what society may deem "unattractive" Anyone on earth, who is a human being will suffer. As long as you're living, you are suffering.

Your attitude is warm - I don't sense aggression from you towards really anyone I've seen you converse with, infact I've seen you do the opposite, be very kind, generous and complimentary towards people on here - women included! I don't want to make this about me because it's not, I just want to share some input I have regarding this topic - I've dealt with it too, my whole life. Judged on my appearance before getting to know me. And when they finally do get to know me they usually admit their wrong views they had.

Women have judged me before even ever uttering a word to me - going behind my back and just trash talkin' - I'm used to it. How I've finagled my way through these circumstances - the older I got, was with friendliness, generosity and compassion from me towards those people made all the difference in the world. How do you combat selfishness? with generosity.. Same applies here, how do you combat negative energies such as hostility/envy from others towards you? with kindness. It's kind of hard to continue to dislike a person who gave you no reason too - when you treat said people with respect and simple kindness. Having ill-will towards others isn't an emotion that cultivates positive results... the more one tries to diminish these emotions, the more mindful they will become. And next time, maybe will think about having wrong perceptions on another.
'
I strayed a little from your initial question and geared it more towards another post I had read of yours regarding a person who had wrong views of you - without knowing you. But I think you get the gist of where I was going with this.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

My take on it, from what little of know of you and purely going off my meandering around some topics here and there, and also taking into account experiences I've had on other forums:

It all boils down to wrong perceptions. People have wrong perceptions about others most of the time.

Being depressed isn't exclusive to people who are what society may deem "unattractive" Anyone on earth, who is a human being will suffer. As long as you're living, you are suffering.

Your attitude is warm - I don't sense aggression from you towards really anyone I've seen you converse with, infact I've seen you do the opposite, be very kind, generous and complimentary towards people on here - women included! I don't want to make this about me because it's not, I just want to share some input I have regarding this topic - I've dealt with it too, my whole life. Judged on my appearance before getting to know me. And when they finally do get to know me they usually admit their wrong views they had.

Women have judged me before even ever uttering a word to me - going behind my back and just trash talkin' - I'm used to it. How I've finagled my way through these circumstances - the older I got, was with friendliness, generosity and compassion from me towards those people made all the difference in the world. How do you combat selfishness? with generosity.. Same applies here, how do you combat negative energies such as hostility/envy from others towards you? with kindness. It's kind of hard to continue to dislike a person who gave you no reason too - when you treat said people with respect and simple kindness. Having ill-will towards others isn't an emotion that cultivates positive results... the more one tries to diminish these emotions, the more mindful they will become. And next time, maybe will think about having wrong perceptions on another.
'
I strayed a little from your initial question and geared it more towards another post I had read of yours regarding a person who had wrong views of you - without knowing you. But I think you get the gist of where I was going with this.

Awh thanks Jewels! Honestly, my therapist thinks I only focus on negative things about myself and not all the progress I make because i'm obsessed with being punished, dwelling on the bad.. he even thinks deep down I like being excluded and being a bit of a victim because thats all I've ever known... I wouldn't say I like it, but one things for sure... theres a sort of familiarity to it.

Honestly! I'm so happy/sad to hear your experience as it sounds so familiar, I've had guys tell me they cant believe I'd even speak to them... like im some stuck up self absorbed cow lmao and people have said to my face "im going to be honest, I thought you was a *****" more times than I can count, without ever speaking to me! (how rude? )

I'm a very submissive person, being aggressive and direct, has never been in my nature. Contrastingly.... thats why I rant and why I love the debate section here, I like to explore the side of me that has a voice. Oh and I agree Jewel about the point on negative energy as in general I give people more respect than they give to me, because I feel like some of the treatment I get is due to karma, I cant wait for the day my karmic debts are paid and I can maybe receive a mutual level of respect.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Awh thanks Jewels! Honestly, my therapist thinks I only focus on negative things about myself and not all the progress I make because i'm obsessed with being punished, dwelling on the bad.. he even thinks deep down I like being excluded and being a bit of a victim because thats all I've ever known... I wouldn't say I like it, but one things for sure... theres a sort of familiarity to it.

Honestly! I'm so happy/sad to hear your experience as it sounds so familiar, I've had guys tell me they cant believe I'd even speak to them... like im some stuck up self absorbed cow lmao and people have said to my face "im going to be honest, I thought you was a *****" more times than I can count, without ever speaking to me! (how rude? )

I'm a very submissive person, being aggressive and direct, has never been in my nature. Contrastingly.... thats why I rant and why I love the debate section here, I like to explore the side of me that has a voice. Oh and I agree Jewel about the point on negative energy as in general I give people more respect than they give to me, because I feel like some of the treatment I get is due to karma, I cant wait for the day my karmic debts are paid and I can maybe receive a mutual level of respect.

Really?
That's an interesting perspective.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand that, and that is a pretty normal kind of experience.
I used to think like that, actually. Especially between my late teens and middle 20s.

But now that I'm older and have a better understanding of myself, me posting on this website in general is mostly, well, kinda like this:

I think it's because I maintain that my life is what's frustrating, not the people on the internet.
Okay, I redact that, SOME people on the internet are frustrating, just nobody here, really.
Influencers are frustrating, but that's why I like forums, they don't really exist on forums.

I always keep in mind that if something bothers me too much online I can just shut my laptop lid and go outside. I still have 90's Kid Internet Mentality. I reverted back to that, actually, because of the unhealthy effects that the advancement of social media has on the mental health of people.

I trained my mind to think about stuff so I don't ruminate as much.
Rumination is when your mind wanders in auto-pilot, kind of randomly, and mostly around about negativity.
You've just gotta build the mental muscle so-to-speak, to think about random things that don't upset you instead of random things that *do* upset you.
It's actually a VERY old human problem, even the Greeks knew about this problem, they just wrote about it in mythological terms instead.
It's a totally normal problem.

Gotta get a Brain Storm going on, get a pen and start writing up a list of all shows and movies you enjoy, then the actors and actresses in those shows and movies. What else are they in? Go to IMDB, look them up and watch other stuff they're in online. Just tricks like that. Got a director you like? What have they done that you haven't seen? Same thing. Like a particular fashion brand? Read everything you can about them on Wikipedia. Listen to or watch interviews with people you like in subjects and interests that you enjoy.
Make sense?

General idea is to try to create a bigger list of things to think about and do, than there is of the amount of time in a day that you can spend thinking about things that you don't like.

 

[Rohini]

like im some stuck up self absorbed cow lmao and people have said to my face "im going to be honest, I thought you was a *****" more times than I can count, without ever speaking to me! (how rude? )

yep, I've heard that too. One of the people in my life who would up being *very* close to me, said that exact phrase to me after we were friends for quite awhile.

They said when they first met me, that they thought I looked like I'd be a *****.

but... being shy doesn't help either, I have been shy my entire life. I'm extremely quiet around new people until I warm up to them. This reads as "standoffish" to strangers.

I also have a mega Resting ***** Face, which probably doesn't help much, but I'm aware of it, now, at least.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Really?
That's an interesting perspective.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand that, and that is a pretty normal kind of experience.
I used to think like that, actually. Especially between my late teens and middle 20s.

But now that I'm older and have a better understanding of myself, me posting on this website in general is mostly, well, kinda like this:

I think it's because I maintain that my life is what's frustrating, not the people on the internet.
Okay, I redact that, SOME people on the internet are frustrating, just nobody here, really.
Influencers are frustrating, but that's why I like forums, they don't really exist on forums.

I always keep in mind that if something bothers me too much online I can just shut my laptop lid and go outside. I still have 90's Kid Internet Mentality. I reverted back to that, actually, because of the unhealthy effects that the advancement of social media has on the mental health of people.

I trained my mind to think about stuff so I don't ruminate as much.
Rumination is when your mind wanders in auto-pilot, kind of randomly, and mostly around about negativity.
You've just gotta build the mental muscle so-to-speak, to think about random things that don't upset you instead of random things that *do* upset you.
It's actually a VERY old human problem, even the Greeks knew about this problem, they just wrote about it in mythological terms instead.
It's a totally normal problem.

Gotta get a Brain Storm going on, get a pen and start writing up a list of all shows and movies you enjoy, then the actors and actresses in those shows and movies. What else are they in? Go to IMDB, look them up and watch other stuff they're in online. Just tricks like that. Got a director you like? What have they done that you haven't seen? Same thing. Like a particular fashion brand? Read everything you can about them on Wikipedia. Listen to or watch interviews with people you like in subjects and interests that you enjoy.
Make sense?

General idea is to try to create a bigger list of things to think about and do, than there is of the amount of time in a day that you can spend thinking about things that you don't like.

Well yeah, people on the internet are or like my practice ground, as much as I like and care for many ppl on here, I've been through sooo much IRL that comments on the internet have little to no effect on me. To the point that sometimes I can really upset someone on here and have nooo clue why (in my world, im just stating my opinion). Typically, I'd take the time to PM an apology as I feel it's more sincere, sometimes even publicly, however, forgiveness is like manners on the internet, some people prefer to hate you, deep down they want no apology because liking you was never really what they wanted to do in the first place, because, they feel you dont belong, sometimes just based on how you look. (Thanks to all the people that PM'd back though and understood where I was coming from).

My therapist was on about how I treat myself IRL, how I interact with the group, even him. My therapist honestly looked surprised during our communication exercise (I had to be his partner because... well.. I am an outcast lmao) he couldn't believe I actually listened to him.

I like the list idea, my thoughts are very intrusive and negative, I start with what I dislike about myself, then I think about my actions that prove what I dislike, then I think about why I even had the urges in the first place, then I think about if I can even stop the urges, then I think if I cant stop them am I good or bad?

Like, if I want to do bad things, and I simply do not do them, am I a good person or a bad one? I simply don't know. I resisted, but should I have to resist?

 

[CenotaphGirl]

yep, I've heard that too. One of the people in my life who would up being *very* close to me, said that exact phrase to me after we were friends for quite awhile.

They said when they first met me, that they thought I looked like I'd be a *****.

but... being shy doesn't help either, I have been shy my entire life. I'm extremely quiet around new people until I warm up to them. This reads as "standoffish" to strangers.

I also have a mega Resting ***** Face, which probably doesn't help much, but I'm aware of it, now, at least.

OMFG yesss yes yeps, ugh are you sure we aren't twins? I will check if I'm Irish and Italian and have been lied to this whole time lol
Being shy, Jesus, this guy had a huge go at me thinking I thought I was too good to talk to him, not understanding I had social anxiety and he honestly pushed me deeper in my shell, he is blind now sadly but I just remember shaking being publicly called out like that, I cant help but think I wouldn't have been spoken to like that, if he perceived me in a different way.

I dont even have a resting ***** face, I feel like I need one, for protection! I always look well... in the mirror, I used to have this mirror that clicks loudly when you shut it, to try and help me to stop looking at myself... imagine.. lol.

 

[9006]

You're just being judged at face value, for a long time I was too. I just had one of those faces... a baby face. People used to say that when I was younger, and even now I think I'm judged on that - certainly in work. I've felt like I've had to prove my competency and skill rather than someone else who'd just be assumed to be the same.

But in your case it's much more of an issue because from the sounds of it people don't have the same consideration as with someone else. Similarly (and sadly), it's like you have to provide proof. But really it's their problem they judge people this way, and unfortunately you who it effects the most. Some people are just honeysuckle, it feels as though if it's not problems you have to deal with from yourself, it's others, too.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

You're just being judged at face value, for a long time I was too. I just had one of those faces... a baby face. People used to say that when I was younger, and even now I think I'm judged on that - certainly in work. I've felt like I've had to prove my competency and skill rather than someone else who'd just be assumed to be the same.

But in your case it's much more of an issue because from the sounds of it people don't have the same consideration as with someone else. Similarly (and sadly), it's like you have to provide proof. But really it's their problem they judge people this way, and unfortunately you who it effects the most. Some people are just honeysuckle, it feels as though if it's not problems you have to deal with from yourself, it's others, too.

This is so interesting, it happens with various different people, baby face too! When you are perceived as this "lesser".

The feeling of needing to prove yourself is veryyy real wow.

 

[Claudia1794]

While I may not be necessarily attractive, I do understand the misconception people sometimes have. My sister, well both actually, but the oldest one is that classic natural beauty and when she dolls up she is gorgeous. Always has been, ***** probably always will be....oh and she is a *****. She doesn't just have "resting ***** face" she has internalized that honeysuckle. She and a lot of people hide behind their looks, money, religion, etc etc etc then when the honeysuckle hits the fan can't understand why more people aren't sympathetic to their troubles. As for me, Ive always known that good looks, money, material things, religion don't equal good person, good life. If anything these things make life more complicated. Once you reach a certain age and have encountered enough diversity you realize this. I would think if any adult believes that because a person is attractive they don't have personal issues then that adult is a complete idiot. I stopped caring what people thought about me oh I guess aroud....my whole life. Don't get me wrong there have been times that I wish for understanding and acceptance of who I am but that's only been with people that matter to me. Also, as far as being not a good person but not a bad person, there is nothing wrong with floating in the gray area. Im guessing everyone does. I try to stay in a light shade of gray but sometimes I slip and get a bit darker. The important thing is to try to be a good person. I mean it works for me but honeysuckle I'm simple like that. And I'm sorry but that's the second time I recall you mentioning something about group and having a negative feeling in regards to the others in the group. Is that a normal thing? Is that how group therapy works?

 

[ardour]

As much as it is unfair to assess the validity of personal issues based on outward appearance, it is still true that the attractive benefit from Halo Effect bias in many situations. Unpopular people will see this and be less inclined to empathy, particularly if they encountered nasty behaviour growing up.

We're not supposed to say this but you could always dress down and go for a 'Plain Jane' look.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Well yeah, people on the internet are or like my practice ground, as much as I like and care for many ppl on here, I've been through sooo much IRL that comments on the internet have little to no effect on me. To the point that sometimes I can really upset someone on here and have nooo clue why (in my world, im just stating my opinion). Typically, I'd take the time to PM an apology as I feel it's more sincere, sometimes even publicly, however, forgiveness is like manners on the internet, some people prefer to hate you, deep down they want no apology because liking you was never really what they wanted to do in the first place, because, they feel you dont belong, sometimes just based on how you look. (Thanks to all the people that PM'd back though and understood where I was coming from).

My therapist was on about how I treat myself IRL, how I interact with the group, even him. My therapist honestly looked surprised during our communication exercise (I had to be his partner because... well.. I am an outcast lmao) he couldn't believe I actually listened to him.

I like the list idea, my thoughts are very intrusive and negative, I start with what I dislike about myself, then I think about my actions that prove what I dislike, then I think about why I even had the urges in the first place, then I think about if I can even stop the urges, then I think if I cant stop them am I good or bad?

Like, if I want to do bad things, and I simply do not do them, am I a good person or a bad one? I simply don't know. I resisted, but should I have to resist?

I think the question should really be if it's beneficial to resist or not, rather than trying to quantitatively assess human morality. What I mean is, don't trade long-term benefits for short-term satisfactions. Life is like that: If you short yourself enough, eventually it will thwart you for it. Once it thwarts you enough times, you learn not to keep shorting yourself. Morality doesn't even really need to enter the equation, it kind of shapes itself accordingly.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

As much as it is unfair to assess the validity of personal issues based on outward appearance, it is still true that the attractive benefit from Halo Effect bias in many situations. Unpopular people will see this and be less inclined empathy, particularly they encountered nasty behaviour growing up.

We're not supposed to say this but you could always dress down and go for a 'Plain Jane' look.

I cant. I simply cant.

 

[ardour]

I cant. I simply cant.

And there lies part of the issue.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

While I may not be necessarily attractive, I do understand the misconception people sometimes have. My sister, well both actually, but the oldest one is that classic natural beauty and when she dolls up she is gorgeous. Always has been, ***** probably always will be....oh and she is a *****. She doesn't just have "resting ***** face" she has internalized that honeysuckle. She and a lot of people hide behind their looks, money, religion, etc etc etc then when the honeysuckle hits the fan can't understand why more people aren't sympathetic to their troubles. As for me, Ive always known that good looks, money, material things, religion don't equal good person, good life. If anything these things make life more complicated. Once you reach a certain age and have encountered enough diversity you realize this. I would think if any adult believes that because a person is attractive they don't have personal issues then that adult is a complete idiot. I stopped caring what people thought about me oh I guess aroud....my whole life. Don't get me wrong there have been times that I wish for understanding and acceptance of who I am but that's only been with people that matter to me. Also, as far as being not a good person but not a bad person, there is nothing wrong with floating in the gray area. Im guessing everyone does. I try to stay in a light shade of gray but sometimes I slip and get a bit darker. The important thing is to try to be a good person. I mean it works for me but honeysuckle I'm simple like that. And I'm sorry but that's the second time I recall you mentioning something about group and having a negative feeling in regards to the others in the group. Is that a normal thing? Is that how group therapy works?

Wow internalised ***** status, gives me chills to think about it. I'm not sure howww much I care about what people think about me as much I wish I could understand why I always feel so... out of place with people now, I never had this issue before lol. This group therapy thing is just... ugh I honestly fight myself to go. It's group therapy for people with social anxiety supposed to be some sort of exposure therapy), there are some people there obviously far more crippled with social anxiety than I am, and honestly I didn't know how deep the rabbit hole went. The thing that gets me is I expected it to be a supportive healing environment but its not...

 

[CenotaphGirl]

As much as it is unfair to assess the validity of personal issues based on outward appearance, it is still true that the attractive benefit from Halo Effect bias in many situations. Unpopular people will see this and be less inclined to empathy, particularly if they encountered nasty behaviour growing up.

We're not supposed to say this but you could always dress down and go for a 'Plain Jane' look.

And there lies part of the issue.

I mean... I used to be "unattractive" I remember what its like, wasn't actually that long ago honestly... I now know things I never knew before, theres something about going from one side of the fence to the next.

Ardour, I don't understand, what is the issue? The issue is because I like to look a certain way?...

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I think the question should really be if it's beneficial to resist or not, rather than trying to quantitatively assess human morality. What I mean is, don't trade long-term benefits for short-term satisfactions. Life is like that: If you short yourself enough, eventually it will thwart you for it. Once it thwarts you enough times, you learn not to keep shorting yourself. Morality doesn't even really need to enter the equation, it kind of shapes itself accordingly.

I still dont understand if wanting to do something bad, shows you have a bad heart or not... I just dont know...

 

[ardour]

I mean... I used to be "unattractive" I remember what its like, wasn't actually that long ago honestly... I now know things I never knew before, theres something about going from one side of the fence to the next.

Ardour, I don't understand, what is the issue? The issue is because I like to look a certain way?...

Sort of. It's hard not to sound like an arsehole saying this, but you have "escaped" from being like the people you're trying to relate to (at least in the respect of appearances).

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Sort of. It's hard not to sound like an arsehole saying this, but you have "escaped" from being like the people you're trying to relate to (at least in the respect of appearances).

I just don't get it Ardour, if how I look matters so much then how can they be mad when people judge them for how they look?

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

I still dont understand if wanting to do something bad, shows you have a bad heart or not... I just dont know...

That part, actually doesn't matter.
And here's why:

On an instinctual level, as a species of animals on this planet, of course we want to do moralistically bad things. That's human nature. All humans are like that. MOST men, are homicidal. Why do you think there are more men going to prison all of the time for violent crimes? It's because that is our hunter instinct. And obviously, the men that don't go to prison, don't act upon that natural instinct because of the consequences for doing so.

So, it doesn't matter what you want to do in life, it matters what you do and do not do in life.
It is more beneficial to NOT act upon our basic, primordial instincts, than it is for us TO act on our basic primordial instincts, because of the consequences for doing so.

What makes it that way is the Social Constructionism of Civilization.
See? Morality doesn't have to enter the equation, it can shape itself accordingly.
HOWEVER, BECAUSE it can shape itself accordingly, that's also how you get people that really don't seem to understand the severity of the consequences for their actions for trying to game the system.
Best example I can think of in that situation, is the long history of the Catholic Church and the sexual abuse of minors. Or, also, King Henry VIII:

Catholic Church:
Preaches human morality until everyone goes home, Cardinal retires and then sexually abuses the minors used within the church community when nobody is looking. Consequence is a Hell of a political mess, potential loss of position, imprisonment, or execution.

King Henry VIII:
Wanted a Son, kept having Daughters. Abused his power and had the women executed for infidelities they did not commit. Once this was discovered, the consequence for doing so was that the man was executed exactly the same way he executed his women.

Bonus Round

Julius Caesar:
Came into autocratic rule due to his tactical and innovative approach. Let his ego get to his head and believed himself to have become a God, and was literally murdered by his own council as famously foreshadowed by the Ides of March as a consequence for his arrogance.

So for a tactical approach, I would suggest instead of actively trying to gain advantage, since often doing so results in the unfortunate disadvantage later, becoming comfortable with a disadvantage and calmly waiting around for someone looking to gain an advantage from your disadvantage, might actually be the better approach. It takes the work out of it for you, and simultaneously flips the script to your favor. Why go hunting, when you can harvest what food you can get from around you agriculturally, and set up traps and wait for the food to come to you instead? Whenever you begin to run low on what is around you, just pack up and move to another location where there are more resources in abundance for you to use.

Is it limiting in the short term? Yes.
But does it benefit for the greater long-term of surviving? Also yes.

It's actually a developmental skill for humans, to think this way. Part of why I love dragonflies so much is that they hunt through interpretative movement, like a football game, actually. Rather than chasing the food, a dragonfly will land nearby, watch the pattern of its prey, and then go to where it algorithmically expects to show up based upon that movement. Similarly to how football/soccer players try to interpret where the ball is going to go, BEFORE it gets there, so that they can just be there ahead of time and wait for it to show up. Surprisingly, dragonflies have something like a +92% hunting accuracy rate this way, meaning that they are masters of interpretation. That is not innate to us like it is them however, we have to teach ourselves to think like that, with their species, it's as instinctual to them as it is for us to chase our resources directly, rather than indirectly.

So when it comes to morality, I'm kind of like:
What about it? It'll shape itself.