Trying to accept the fact I will be alone forever

[ardour]

Its a tough pill to swallow, but it needs to be done. I cant keep on feeling sad because I will never know what it feels like to be loved, or to be valued by a man. I need to just get over it, because its got me so depressed I walk around on the verge of tears all day long. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and just cry because of how much it hurts. I hate this. I just want to know what its like to be touched by a man who loves and cares about me, and I want to be safe and free to feel the same way about him. It hurts so bad, sometimes I feel like my chest is going to explode.

I happened to see this thread while I was reading something else, so I know it's an old post but it made me stop and think.  I have been feeling similarly for a long time, ever since I became of age to date.  I want to know what it feels like to be loved and valued by a woman in a romantic way.  I just wonder if it will ever happen for me, as year after year passes and the threat of being single, dateless, and sexless for life becomes more and more real.  I hate it too.

The trouble is, as a male, if I say these same things I'd get called needy. Or, I'll get told that I need to give up on anyone I'd actually like and just settle for anyone who will have me, whether they can give me what I'm looking for or not.  And if I don't already have what someone is looking for, even if it's something I want to cultivate in myself but don't have it yet, it doesn't matter.  I'm supposed to have it naturally and if I don't intuitively know how to do everything correctly that a guy is supposed to do, it must mean I'm worthless, that I have no potential, and even the thought of asking for a chance to change and prove myself is met with basically being told to know my place and resign myself to it.    

It is just so weird how a guy is supposed to attract a woman.  As a guy, you're not supposed to act like you "like" anyone.  You're supposed to be some kind of lone-wolf desperado cartoon character that actually enjoys loneliness, acting like you don't care who you get, that any woman will do because it's all just ***, it's all the same.  If you say that you want someone specific and not just anyone, that's it, you're dismissed as being "needy" or having "one-itis" or some stupid ******** phrase, because you want things to go a specific way instead of just anything.  You're supposed to hope that however you happen to be at this point in time just so happens to fit with whoever you like, and cross your fingers.  And if it's not, or it might be but you don't know how to show it or you do things wrong because you don't know better or you make an honest try but still don't get it right, you're screwed.  And even wanting to correct your mistake is again dismissed as "needy" because you're not supposed to care who you get.  I think attraction is a bunch of stupid game-playing.  I really hate all of it.

 
I partially agree in that men really aren't  able to appear too emotionally attached most of the time. It's the reason I've mixed feelings towards relationships. We're limited to behaving in ways that don't convey a sense of vulnerability. Allowed to "care" only in superficial ways (either it's just about ***, a temporary bit of fun, or relationships/marriage are 'life-goals' to be achieved similar to a career goal). It sucks, although it's not true in all intances and some women genuinely don't seem to mind a bit of vulnerability.

In your case though, I think it's more that you pedestalized women you barely knew who weren't interested and continue to fixate on that.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Personally, it pisses me off when men refuse to show emotion. Okay, don't go all fall the the ground screaming or stomping your feet or anything, but for ****'s sake, show some normal damn emotion.....there's not one damn thing wrong with looking like you are human.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I partially agree in that men really aren't  able to appear too emotionally attached most of the time. It's the reason I've mixed feelings towards relationships. We're limited to behaving in ways that don't convey a sense of vulnerability. Allowed to "care" only in superficial ways (either it's just about ***, a temporary bit of fun, or relationships/marriage are 'life-goals' to be achieved similar to a career goal). It sucks, although it's not true in all intances and some women genuinely don't seem to mind a bit of vulnerability.

I feel like you can only show emotional attachment after you've already proven to the woman that you are good enough. If you show it before, that's the neediness that everyone talks down about. And a lot of proving you are good enough comes from having more strengths than problems. That's what I think the issue is with guys who have trouble socially - they have a lot of problems, so it's hard to make a good impression and it feels like you have little to no reason to be confident in yourself.

I've never really been the kind of guy who thinks it's just about ***. I don't want to be a player, and I don't find anything exciting about the chase, and I can't wait for it to be over. Even thinking about it makes me feel tired. I remember growing up I'd always hear guys complaining that girls were stupid and boring (but you got *** from them, provided you were "cool" - good at sports, rich, high social status, having a cocky and superior attitude, knew how to be a smooth talker, into drinking and getting high, and/or doing the whole delinquent thing). Meanwhile, I would also hear the cultural trope of girls complaining that men were only after one thing. I didn't think either of those things sounded good to me. I wanted to be a guy who was interested in more than just ***, and find a girl that I was attracted to but who could also enhance my life beyond just ***, and who I was also genuinely interested in getting to know and caring for. But my insecurity and inexperience and lack of having enough to offer because I didn't prepare, got in the way.

In your case though, I think it's more that you pedestalized women you barely knew who weren't interested and continue to fixate on that.

I don't think it's as cynical as that. Anyone barely knows each other at first, and I got to know what some of them were about pretty well. I think it could have gone my way if I just knew how to play the game, if I knew the right way to come across and had set myself up for success with women ahead of time. It's not pedestalizing or whatever, I like them more because they made me more curious and excited than others and could have shown me the most, could have enhanced my life the most. But I hadn't set myself up the right way to enhance their life, even though I wanted to. I just didn't know how I could both be myself and be someone who could enhance their life at once. I didn't build up enough substance to me because I didn't think I could get anywhere in life for many reasons, mostly because I thought I lacked talent or luck and was inherently a low-status person, that I just wasn't someone that could get anywhere no matter what and that nothing I did would have sufficient effect on what I could get. I still struggle with this feeling. I was insecure because I knew I was behind them in development and lacking in substance, and I was awkward because I was naive and inexperienced.

And I've also lacked social skills and status. I don't have charm or charisma or smooth-talking skills at all, I'm not witty, and I don't know how to banter or tease. I don't like it because it seems douchey. I don't have anything powerful, high-status, cocky, dominant, or defiant about me. I don't enjoy going out of my way to mock things, being cynical and sarcastic and too-cool-for-school about everything, being a troublemaker, or trying to dominate everyone I meet. I was never in the "in group" and I think I am at a disadvantage socially because of it, but I couldn't join them if I wanted to, and I never liked the "in group" anyway. Guys who were in the "in group" were into doing whatever brought them status, and as a result they learned how to talk to women and what actions, interests, and attitudes impress them because *** with an attractive woman was the ultimate status symbol. On the other hand, I've always just liked what I like and done my own thing and thought I was more mature for not playing the status game but it hasn't helped because most of my interests aren't things that most women like, and are hard for them to relate to. I'm trying to look for things I might like outside of my narrow range of interests to expand what I might like and also who I might appeal to, but I should have done this before.

---

Personally, it pisses me off when men refuse to show emotion. Okay, don't go all fall the the ground screaming or stomping your feet or anything, but for ****'s sake, show some normal damn emotion.....there's not one damn thing wrong with looking like you are human.

I guess that's the key word - "normal". Showing emotion is normal, but it's also important to keep the amount of emotion within a socially acceptable range.

 

[Xpendable]

And who decides what's normal?

 

[TheSkaFish]

And who decides what's normal?

People, society, the world.  Whatever you want to call it.  I think this is one of those instances where you have to just play ball, otherwise you find yourself alone.  At least when you're trying to make an impression.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I meant what's normal for you. If you are emotional, don't go changing that just to please the world. Be who you are. If you don't, aren't you just living a lie?
And stop worrying so damn much about what society says. Who cares what society says, be yourself and whoever doesn't like it can **** off.

 

[DarkSelene]

I feel like you can only show emotional attachment after you've already proven to the woman that you are good enough. If you show it before, that's the neediness that everyone talks down about. And a lot of proving you are good enough comes from having more strengths than problems. That's what I think the issue is with guys who have trouble socially - they have a lot of problems, so it's hard to make a good impression and it feels like you have little to no reason to be confident in yourself.

Emotional attachment should develop reciprocally. If you're in a relationship already, both should be open about the way they feel, especially because it makes for better communication and healthier relationship overall. If you're developing one sided feelings and the person shows they're not interested in you, that's on you to figure out -- not on them to accept.
It isn't lack of problems, that doesn't exist unless you're ridiculously rich or retardedly optimistic -- It's how you deal with your problems, how you face the world and this doesn't just come down to confidence, it's much more.
That's why it doesn't matter if the person is the most beautiful, because the way they behave makes you find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they're rich, but if you can see the passion in their eyes for what they do or the pride they have for the work they do, you'll admire them in any position, any job. It doesn't matter if they're social or adventurous, because being in their presence is what makes you excited, not what you do with them.

The whole social status/superficial attraction mentality only works if you actually want to attract a superficious and superfluous woman, which is probably why PUA's are successful, they know their target audience.

 

[ardour]

Emotional attachment should develop reciprocally. If you're in a relationship already, both should be open about the way they feel, especially because it makes for better communication and healthier relationship overall. If you're developing one sided feelings and the person shows they're not interested in you, that's on you to figure out -- not on them to accept.

Maybe you're also speaking from a woman's perspective of feeling repulsed by unreciprocated attention. Unless people are just playing the field, most of time there's some pre-existing emotional attachment going on before the relationship starts.  And with most couples one party is more emotionally invested than the other.

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The whole social status/superficial attraction mentality only works if you actually want to attract a superficious and superfluous woman, which is probably why PUA's are successful, they know their target audience.

Agree. A 'successful' PUA gets what he deserves. There are some of us who can't attract *any* women though, who end up buying into this crap.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Emotional attachment should develop reciprocally. If you're in a relationship already, both should be open about the way they feel, especially because it makes for better communication and healthier relationship overall. If you're developing one sided feelings and the person shows they're not interested in you, that's on you to figure out -- not on them to accept. 
It isn't lack of problems, that doesn't exist unless you're ridiculously rich or retardedly optimistic -- It's how you deal with your problems, how you face the world and this doesn't just come down to confidence, it's much more.
That's why it doesn't matter if the person is the most beautiful, because the way they behave makes you find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they're rich, but if you can see the passion in their eyes for what they do or the pride they have for the work they do, you'll admire them in any position, any job. It doesn't matter if they're social or adventurous, because being in their presence is what makes you excited, not what you do with them. 

The whole social status/superficial attraction mentality only works if you actually want to attract a superficious and superfluous woman, which is probably why PUA's are successful, they know their target audience.

Well, I need to work on how I come across then, the impression I make.  I need to figure out how to be interesting to others, how to relate and connect with someone, how I can stop being unattractive and start being attractive instead.  Because so far, nothing has worked, but I do believe I could have gotten who I wanted if I only knew how to present myself and was doing the right things.  It's not like I have any more in common with anyone else either, or that they would be any better of a fit for me.  I'd hate to think that I can only be a good fit for people I don't find attractive or interesting at all, but I'm stuck and it's just all I get.  I'd like to believe I can break out of this loser role that's been haunting me since school.

Maybe I don't have enough confidence or passion or success, or I don't have my life figured out yet.  Or maybe I don't face the world correctly.  I can see how I come off as exactly what I don't want to be, fearful, frustrated, powerless.  I don't already have enough to offer, I just want to have it but don't know how to get it yet.

I still feel like it must come down to some kind of right or wrong traits, some kind of social skills.  I just don't think it's luck or random chance because there are patterns.  Certain types of guys seem to almost always get who they want and they always get the more attractive partners.  They have considerable control or at least influence over how things go for them. An attractive, interesting partner is something I've always wanted and I don't want to have to miss out on it.  Meanwhile, other types of guys seem to almost never get who they want, they never get the attractive partners and have to settle for a choice between whoever will have them or nothing.  They're totally ineffectual and powerless.  All I know is, I don't want to have to spend my life being kicked around like that, it's what I want to get away from.  I want to figure out how I can be in the first category and take more control or at least influence what I get.

 

[DarkSelene]

Maybe you're also speaking from a woman's point of view of hating unreciprocated attention from men....  Unless people are just playing the field, most of time there's some pre-existing emotional attachment there before the relationship starts. 

And with most couples  one party is more emotionally invested than the other, while the person who 'cares less' has the power. That might sound a bit simplistic and dramatic, but it does seem does to be the common dynamic.

Yes, the type of emotional attachment that grows reciprocally while you're building something with someone else, like a friendship or the foundation for a relationship (could be the same thing but not mutually exclusive). If you're creating something in your mind, good or bad but equally imaginary, reality will catch up and hurt you. As well as if you're letting yourself develop feelings towards someone that is quite clear about their lack of intentions.

I think the realistic view is that different people show their emotions and investment in the relationship in very different ways. You can appreciate and understand it or not. It's a reflection on what they have to offer and what they believe is important to show too -- which makes for a great way to get to know someone on a deeper level, if you're observant enough.
The idea that there's always a settler in a relationship should be the definition of a defeatist state of mind.

 

[Paraiyar]

Emotional attachment should develop reciprocally. If you're in a relationship already, both should be open about the way they feel, especially because it makes for better communication and healthier relationship overall. If you're developing one sided feelings and the person shows they're not interested in you, that's on you to figure out -- not on them to accept. 
It isn't lack of problems, that doesn't exist unless you're ridiculously rich or retardedly optimistic -- It's how you deal with your problems, how you face the world and this doesn't just come down to confidence, it's much more.
That's why it doesn't matter if the person is the most beautiful, because the way they behave makes you find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they're rich, but if you can see the passion in their eyes for what they do or the pride they have for the work they do, you'll admire them in any position, any job. It doesn't matter if they're social or adventurous, because being in their presence is what makes you excited, not what you do with them. 

The whole social status/superficial attraction mentality only works if you actually want to attract a superficious and superfluous woman, which is probably why PUA's are successful, they know their target audience.

Well, I need to work on how I come across then, the impression I make.  I need to figure out how to be interesting to others, how to relate and connect with someone, how I can stop being unattractive and start being attractive instead.  Because so far, nothing has worked, but I do believe I could have gotten who I wanted if I only knew how to present myself and was doing the right things.  It's not like I have any more in common with anyone else either, or that they would be any better of a fit for me.  I'd hate to think that I can only be a good fit for people I don't find attractive or interesting at all, but I'm stuck and it's just all I get.  I'd like to believe I can break out of this loser role that's been haunting me since school.

Maybe I don't have enough confidence or passion or success, or I don't have my life figured out yet.  Or maybe I don't face the world correctly.  I can see how I come off as exactly what I don't want to be, fearful, frustrated, powerless.  I don't already have enough to offer, I just want to have it but don't know how to get it yet.

I still feel like it must come down to some kind of right or wrong traits, some kind of social skills.  I just don't think it's luck or random chance because there are patterns.  Certain types of guys seem to almost always get who they want and they always get the more attractive partners.  They have considerable control or at least influence over how things go for them.  An attractive, interesting partner is something I've always wanted and I don't want to have to miss out on it.  Meanwhile, other types of guys seem to almost never get who they want, they never get the attractive partners and have to settle for a choice between whoever will have them or nothing.  They're totally ineffectual and powerless.  All I know is, I don't want to have to spend my life being kicked around like that, it's what I want to get away from.  I want to figure out how I can be in the first category and take more control or at least influence what I get.

If you spend all this time trying to figure out how to appeal to girls instead of just enjoying yourself then they will pick up on that and it will turn them off.

 

[ardour]

Maybe you're also speaking from a woman's point of view of hating unreciprocated attention from men....  Unless people are just playing the field, most of time there's some pre-existing emotional attachment there before the relationship starts. 

And with most couples  one party is more emotionally invested than the other, while the person who 'cares less' has the power. That might sound a bit simplistic and dramatic, but it does seem does to be the common dynamic.

Yes, the type of emotional attachment that grows reciprocally while you're building something with someone else, like a friendship or the foundation for a relationship (could be the same thing but not mutually exclusive). If you're creating something in your mind, good or bad but equally imaginary, reality will catch up and hurt you. As well as if you're letting yourself develop feelings towards someone that is quite clear about their lack of intentions.

For me, feelings just developed regardless of whether I "let" them. I've just had to deal with it.  I get that the thought of unreciprocated feelings from some guy pining over them is very uncomfortable for women, and of course they aren't obliged to return the interest. But I think your dispassionate ideals about how attachment should develop apply more to those with options, relationship experience, and the more detached attitude that results from that.

 

[TheSkaFish]

It isn't lack of problems, that doesn't exist unless you're ridiculously rich or retardedly optimistic -- It's how you deal with your problems, how you face the world and this doesn't just come down to confidence, it's much more.

That's why it doesn't matter if the person is the most beautiful, because the way they behave makes you find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they're rich, but if you can see the passion in their eyes for what they do or the pride they have for the work they do, you'll admire them in any position, any job. It doesn't matter if they're social or adventurous, because being in their presence is what makes you excited, not what you do with them.

Do you think that if I genuinely became a better problem-solver, if I learned to face the world in a stronger way, and changed the way I behaved to have more passion and pride, would it even be possible to wash away a bad impression and replace it with a more attractive one?

 

[DarkSelene]

I don't appreciate how you're projecting these ideals onto me as if I'm so easy to pin down.

There's such a thing as being rational instead of letting your emotions get the best of you, and there's definitely such a thing as self-preservation -- I'm not a cold-blooded monster because I know how to avoid falling for people that I know won't reciprocate my feelings, and definitely don't just settle for whoever will. As I would also never settle for someone I feel don't care for me enough, which is not having options rather just self-respect.

---

Do you think that if I genuinely became a better problem-solver, if I learned to face the world in a stronger way, and changed the way I behaved to have more passion and pride, would it even be possible to wash away a bad impression and replace it with a more attractive one?

The bad impression comes from your mentality, and until that changes your behavior won't change.

 

[ardour]

I don't appreciate how you're projecting these ideals onto me as if I'm so easy to pin down.

There's such a thing as being rational instead of letting your emotions get the best of you, and there's definitely such a thing as self-preservation -- I'm not a cold-blooded monster because I know how to avoid falling for people that I know won't reciprocate my feelings, and definitely don't just settle for whoever will. As I would also never settle for someone I feel don't care for me enough, which is not having options rather just self-respect.

---

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I miight have projected. I read your post and was reminded of the cruel emotional standards I've come across on feminists spaces, where people demand  men not have unrequited feelings, even if they're kept private and not acted upon. As if the mere existence of that constitutes harm to women. Of course they muddy the waters a bit by referring to  actual harassment, Nice Guys and so on, but the message is clear.

I agree but it's difficult to be that rational like that when you've literally had no relationship experience, and this person might represent your 'last chance'.

 

[Paraiyar]

I don't appreciate how you're projecting these ideals onto me as if I'm so easy to pin down.

There's such a thing as being rational instead of letting your emotions get the best of you, and there's definitely such a thing as self-preservation -- I'm not a cold-blooded monster because I know how to avoid falling for people that I know won't reciprocate my feelings, and definitely don't just settle for whoever will. As I would also never settle for someone I feel don't care for me enough, which is not having options rather just self-respect.

---

Do you think that if I genuinely became a better problem-solver, if I learned to face the world in a stronger way, and changed the way I behaved to have more passion and pride, would it even be possible to wash away a bad impression and replace it with a more attractive one?

The bad impression comes from your mentality, and until that changes your behavior won't change.

---

This 100%. I'd add that you should forget making up for past bad impressions and focus in making the new ones good.

 

[DarkSelene]

I agree but it's difficult to be that rational like that when you've literally had no relationship experience, and this person might be your 'last chance'.

I understand. Experience taught me that when you let your emotions dictate your behavior it'll almost always end in disappointment, especially when it comes from neediness/loneliness. It'll let you open to fall for very abusive, selfish and exploitative people, people that don't deserve you. Maybe making an effort to balance the emotions with some rationality would be worth it...

 

[Xpendable]

Other people experiences have taught me that there's absolutely no pattern or formula to hang on.

---

People will approach you and say you gave them an objective bad impression.

 

[Elyseon]

I understand how you feel, I have had the same thoughts as you have and I guess all I can say is that the future is unknown and you never know what it holds for you. Maybe someone will come along that surprises you.

 

[Kid_A]

Personally, it pisses me off when men refuse to show emotion.  Okay, don't go all fall the the ground screaming or stomping your feet or anything, but for ****'s sake, show some normal damn emotion.....there's not one damn thing wrong with looking like you are human.

I totally agree and I think it's sad that heaps of men are raised to "suck it up". I think this is how so many become detached from their own emotions. We are all human. I find sensitivity an excellent quality.