heartless, mindless, stone deaf

Again, my issue is with the entire cult of encouragement, people stating blithely as obvious, that to care for others, it is not necessary to actually be interested in them, much less listen or discuss!

Oh no, you only have to know what you yourself opine! Then they should just do as you say, if they know what's good for them. All that simple.

Pep talks and scolding, and then send them on their merry way. Whether it's God, power of positive thinking, or anything at all obvious yet easier said than done. -Admonishing that poor shmuck in Singapore not to commit suicide! -for example...

Unbelievable.

I know exactly what you mean. Can I tell you a story that happened to me.

Many many many years ago, (as a teenager) I rang a counselling line and talked to this person on the other end about my problems, my life story and things I was feeling at the moment.

So, this ******** tells me 2 things that just piss me off. Maybe she was trying to cheer me up or maybe scold me like a naught school boy. I don't know, but here are the 2 things she said:

1. Other people have had it worse than you. Yeah, like I give a ****! I had also been physically abused and she tells me that sexual abuse is actually worse. Gee, that made me feel a whole lot better.

2. My problem is that I am looking inwards to myself and my problems. I am told that the best way to overcome my problems is to focus on other peoples' problems. She suggested doing volunteer work to help me focus on others, and feel "better about myself".

Yeah, stupid dumb **** lady. It's so obvious! Why didn't I think of it before? As I'm working in the local soup kitchen handing out meals to the homeless, those memories of holding out my hands and being strapped mercilessly will just melt away. Before I know it, I will ask myself, "gee, do I remember painful strappings at all now? Ain't life grand now?"

And as I think how dishing out meals to homeless strangers is supposed to help me "forget" my ordeal, I will most probably say "**** it" and tip a vat of hot scolding soup over some poor homeless bum because of the rage.

But I digress.

So I know what you mean. "Never again" I said to some ******* pseudo counsellor.

I alluded very specifically, to the amateur legions of ******* pseudo counselors troop surging through out this very forum! Alas, however, the situation is hardly unique. And never mind abuse or scolding, those unending inane marshmallow words of comfort are quite bad enough!

But as to your own experience, as bad as your item #1 sounds, your item #2 illustrates my point quite well. For, as the dumb old joke goes: "When you assume, you make an ass of U and Me!" Had that item #2 of yours, only been an interested question on her part, instead! What a truly comforting difference that might have made.

In the words of Simone Weil: "Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity." And damn scarce, t'would seem!

AaronAgassi said:

I alluded very specifically, to the amateur legions of ******* pseudo counselors troop surging through out this very forum! Alas, however, the situation is hardly unique. And never mind abuse or scolding, those unending inane marshmallow words of comfort are quite bad enough!

But as to your own experience, as bad as your item #1 sounds, your item #2 illustrates my point quite well. For, as the dumb old joke goes: "When you assume, you make an ass of U and Me!" Had that item #2 of yours, only been an interested question on her part, instead! What a truly comforting difference that might have made.

In the words of Simone Weil: "Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity." And damn scarce, t'would seem!

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I'm very sorry, but I have no choice but to be a little nasty to you. I read what you said about people here on this forum, describing them as "pseudo ******* counsellors" (borrowing from my own post), but I don't think that is very nice calling people around here that.

Everybody has been super nice to me, and I really appreciate that. Yeah, sure, we are ALL pseudo counsellors, but so what? All of us are trying to help. The counsellor that I bitched about was not a pseudo counsellor, but an actual properly trained counsellor.

And she pissed me off big time!!!

No one here has done that to me, except show me some kindness. So please take it a little easy on those in this forum.

I'm sure no has told you to go out and do volunteer work to forget about your own problems.

Again, what I have actually been told is that to care for others, it is not necessary to actually be interested in them, much less listen or discuss. And I was roundly flamed for disagreeing.

I had thought I was done posting here.. But after reading this thread, I feel something must be written in reply.

First off, no amount of sympathy or words in any form or manner can offer a lonely person any truly worthwhile comfort. For they are, after all, just empty words. It is not getting to the crux of the problem and that is why are we alone?? Why is it we can be in a room full of people and yet still feel so isolated and alone.

I have seen first hand how very few people offer sincere empathy for another.. Many seem incapable of expressing such a basic human emotion because the first and foremost thought in their heads, 24/7, is ME. Yet these same people exude a smarmy characteristic of caring and concern, that when push comes to shove, it's all just a pretentious facade.

Compassion and understanding isn't about talk, "I did this for someone", or "I did that".. DOING is what matters.. I don't expect, nor want, a thing in return for helping others, and I don't do it to make myself feel good or brag to others'. I do it because I want to, because it's part of being a human being..

It's true, a lot of people have lost their ability to genuinely care, to put someone else first, rather then themselves.. Whatever happened to a random act of kidness, with no thought of recompence? Perhaps, if we truly were a less self-centered society, loneliness would be far less common.. In helping others', we help ourselves..

I do not want this to turn into a debate on religion, or God, for those that tout God's word are usually the most unctuous of them all.. As history has shown us, you simply can't regulate morality. I don't need a god, nor a church to teach me morals, or ethics, my parents did that, and life taught me the rest.

The fine point that I would like to stress is that even just for sheer sympathy and attention, what suffering people want is less reassurance or pep talks, but simply to be heard and understood. And that means that anyone needs to be actively listening, not just role playing or making obvious declarations.

There is no useful paint by numbers process of caring expression or encouragement, to spare us all the sheer trouble of engagement with one another in attentive conversation in depth, even pointed argument and cooperative miscommunications repair. And nothing less is ever going to yield anyone any truly creative advice that they just might have not already heard before, repeatedly pressured ad nausea.

I agree with Queen Cleocatra at 100%.

I just want to add that in my opinion a forum is a place where at first we can offer each other our experience and/or knowledge. The things we say (better, write) may be useful for other people which are going through situations we've experienced. But what really helps a person which feels lonely and what makes the difference, in my opinion, is the feeling for him/her. In other words, simply the care for the person in front of us.
The words we tell each other shouldn't be cold advice or rebuke.

Hey,

I think that caring and listening are NOT the same as 'pep talks'.

We just need to be loving and kind.

Ben is Glory

What masterpiece of cognitive dissidence! See how they agree with me on everything up until skirting my entire point!

AaronAgassi said:

What masterpiece of cognitive dissidence! See how they agree with me on everything up until skirting my entire point!

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Pray tell, your entire point... Please, do not place me, or keeper, or many others' here within your box of those that do not listen nor care. You do not know me, you don't know keeper, nor do you know our lives. And I would presume the same of you..

I meant those last two posts by keeper and lonelygirl. And how has my point been unclear?

Sometimes just seeing someone's post of encouragement or empathy (however vague, contrived or even completely fake) helps in the short term. Just the fact that you are not alone in your loneliness. Of course it doesn't usually help in the long term. That's where advice, the experiences of others, and your willingness to change views and interactions with people (learning social skills) are important.

keeper said:

I agree with Queen Cleocatra at 100%.

I just want to add that in my opinion a forum is a place where at first we can offer each other our experience and/or knowledge. The things we say (better, write) may be useful for other people which are going through situations we've experienced. But what really helps a person which feels lonely and what makes the difference, in my opinion, is the feeling for him/her. In other words, simply the care for the person in front of us.
The words we tell each other shouldn't be cold advice or rebuke.

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With such qualification, I would tend to agree. Except on the fine qualification that helping another on a one to one basis employs interpersonal skills, emotional intelligence, rather than social skills as such.

This said, then my message is really how appalled I am at how many posters display and even express quite explicitly, such a profound disinterest in real connection. They decidedly do not agree as to any superior efficacy whatsoever of anything more troublesome than rote encouragement and blithe statement of the obvious. For them, it's all simple.

And that torrent of superficial triviality seems even destructive whenever suffering individuals really need to be reached out to and engaged, even however somewhat shy and reluctantly.

Mr AaronAgassi, please tell me where I do

AaronAgassi said:

agree with me on everything up until skirting my entire point!

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I wrote:

keeper said:

I agree with Queen Cleocatra at 100%.

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Do I speak chinese?

keeper, thought I understand you to advocate genuine intent, it still seems as though you sidestep the importance of substantial communication from focused attention and thoughtful deliberation. All of which is my pivotal concern. Or am I missing something?

Does this statement make the assumption that the postings by others are the extent of their depth toward a thread originator, that there is no further attempt to make real connections, such as through PM or email after their public postings or in addition to?
I find it hardly a fair assumption, if this is what it is, to make without asking the posters if what they post is truely the extent of their interaction with the individual in need.
If this isn't the assumption, then I question how you support your message, just as one would ask for support on any research. This is not to be argumentative or to start one, I just want to know more about your message.

AaronAgassi said:

This said, then my message is really how appalled I am at how many posters display and even express quite explicitly, such a profound disinterest in real connection. They decidedly do not agree as to any superior efficacy whatsoever of anything more troublesome than rote encouragement and blithe statement of the obvious. For them, it's all simple.

And that torrent of superficial triviality seems even destructive whenever suffering individuals really need to be reached out to and engaged, even however somewhat shy and reluctantly.

Click to expand...

Still you haven't told me where I agree with you.
If you put unsaid words in other people's mouth, how could you maintain "the importance of substantial communication from focused attention and thoughtful deliberation"?

AaronAgassi said:

keeper, thought I understand you to advocate genuine intent, it still seems as though you sidestep the importance of substantial communication from focused attention and thoughtful deliberation. All of which is my pivotal concern. Or am I missing something?

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I cannot vouch certain to anything to which I might not be witness. But there is alas, just as I have related, troubling positive indication in support of my poor impressions.