Being nice isn't right anymore?

[angel_in_view]

Hi everyone. There's something a friend and I have been talking about and I wanted to come to the board to see what others think.

As the subject says...being nice isn't right anymore?

It just seems like anymore today you just can't get ahead if you are nice and do what you're supposed to do. The friend I was talking with about this is very frustrated. She has a rather stressful job and is always seeing co-workers get ahead who don't do much at all. One girl in particular misses work quite a bit(she will work 4 days, but then something will ALWAYS come up to where she'll either not be there on Fridays or Mondays.) And when she is there during the week, its always something "going on" and she'll only be able to work 1/2 a day. Well, my friend never misses...she will even pull herself into work when she doesn't feel good bc she knows the work can't pile up(that office works on a stringent deadline all the time) and sometimes she even has to put on a "supervisor hat" when the supervisor is out of the office. She got a promotion a yr. ago and earns every penny of it. The girl who misses all of the time applied for a position that is on the same level as my friend. She got it! My friend about fell over, bc she couldn't understand how in the world she got promoted up to her level when she barely comes to work and when she IS there, she doesn't try to help when they are behind or anything. She's all about her. When my friend asked about this, she was told that the hiring panel looks @ your performance on the material you are responsible for. They went on to say they know she tends to miss a lot, but when she IS there, her work is excellent. SERIOUSLY?!?!? My friend was blown away by this bc she would have never dreamed of acting the way this girl acts and actually have a chance of getting a promotion. She said she doesn't think its fair that this girl is making the same amount of $ she is but basically can do whatever she wants. Meanwhile she's working like a machine and gets no appreciation.

I understood what she meant bc I have a family member like that. She can talk to her supervisors any way she wants & can refuse to go meetings and such. Recently, she asked for the entire Thanksgiving week off. She was told no bc it is a small office and it wasn't fair that no-one else in the office was gonna get the whole week off. Well, the rest of that day, she pitched the biggest fit, kept walking around smarting and popping off about it and by the end of the day, she got what she wanted....the whole week off. I was blown away when she told me bc if I would have acted up like that at my job, I would have been shown the door and told not to come back! The bad thing is...she's been like that for as long as I've known her and seems to not ever get in trouble! She's also the kind of person who can quit a job(although she hasn't done that in a long time) and I'll be dammed if she won't turn up w/a new job within a month and it'll be an EVEN BETTER one that the previous!

I know it is said that God rewards us who do the right thing, but it just seems as if you are nice, kind and do what you are supposed to, you don't really get ahead. Meanwhile, the ones who "act up" get it all. -- What do y'all think?

 

[bulmabriefs144]

Please read this.

Nobody can say you're nice except the object of your desire. Be considerate, and not a jerk.

If rejected don't be all "she was a bitch, because she didn't like me." Do this, and if the person doesn't like you, just take it easy.

 

[Lone Apothecary]

As the subject says...being nice isn't right anymore?

It just seems like anymore today you just can't get ahead if you are nice and do what you're supposed to do.

I know it is said that God rewards us who do the right thing, but it just seems as if you are nice, kind and do what you are supposed to, you don't really get ahead. Meanwhile, the ones who "act up" get it all. -- What do y'all think?

Could you please define "right," elaborate on what you mean by "what you're supposed to do" as well as "do the right thing," and explain why one should feel as if being nice warrants a reward.

I do nice things because, despite everything, I like to feel like I'm making some sort of positive difference in and indifferent world, no matter how small. Plus, I feel good when people do nice things for me, so it feels good to return the favor sometimes (even if I do tend to get ignored). Being nice is still fine and dandy. Being nice and expecting something for it is wrong. There's no reward waiting for me; I just like being a decent person sometimes. That's my two cents, at least.

 

[bulmabriefs144]

And that's truly being nice.

I usually end up wanting to be loved back, which is why I prefer doing things nice in a volunteer aspect to being nice for romantic motive, because then it's its own reward.

You should consider whether you are actually being nice, angel.

 

[Milly]

The key here seems to be that the other girl is apparently excellent at her job - going in when you don't feel too good and covering for someone else are good, positive traits, but they don't guarantee you to be at a higher position than somebody who's genuinely skilled at what she does. If you can do the job to a high standard, why shouldn't you get a promotion?

 

[PyramidHead]

From my sources:

Nice is good. The problem most nice guys have is more the fact that they are way too nice (and in a lot of cases way too shy).
That's the same reason, when people say that women don't like gentleman anymore. They still would love to have one, but "Nice" and "Well-mannered" should not be his whole character. Add some character in form of "dominance" and "sexual aggression" and you get a way more interesting guy for a lot of women. As well, a friend once told to me, that quality sure is important, but that it is better (and way more entertaining) if a guy is just good at a few things and a bit more colored in terms of character.
So not like "be the stereotype", but like "be a bit of everything."
Which was kind of an interesting view to me.

The same woman gave me this nice quote as well. "If Mr.Nice Guy still has a backbone and some balls, than he may be Mr. Perfect."

 

[ajdass1]

Unfortunately, yeah, not everyone who gets rewarded deserves it, especially in the workplace. Sadly, I've noticed too, someone who makes a lot of fuss and puts on a tantrum will sometimes be able to get things done where a reserved and polite person just won't. I don't know whether these people are just lazy, or ignorant, or just don't care, or what?

Also, apparently if you put 'nice' in the title people will assume you're writing about romance and reply without reading the OP, lol

I mean, I can't fathom why someone who hardly ever turns up would get promoted like that. Maybe she's just some kinda genius and manages to do all her work, regardless? I don't know. But I guess someone who's nice and does what they're supposed to do, isn't the same as someone who does that and manages to network well. "Niceness" is fine, but if all you can say about yourself is that you're nice...?

Nice is always right, sure, but I think if you're aiming high, it isn't *enough*.

 

[angel_in_view]

Unfortunately, yeah, not everyone who gets rewarded deserves it, especially in the workplace. Sadly, I've noticed too, someone who makes a lot of fuss and puts on a tantrum will sometimes be able to get things done where a reserved and polite person just won't. I don't know whether these people are just lazy, or ignorant, or just don't care, or what?

Also, apparently if you put 'nice' in the title people will assume you're writing about romance and reply without reading the OP, lol

LOL - Thank you. You are right. I wasn't referring to romance. I guess maybe I should not have titled it that way, but I did so bc it just seems like if you help others, are kind to others, are a good employee, family person, friend, etc you sometimes get stepped on/over. It just seems like anymore today, you have to be an ass in order to get ahead in the workplace. In reference to my family member making a scene in order to get those days off....another family member said that while she may think she gets her way, she in fact may be hurting herself in the long run. Her employer may grant her what she wants so they don't have to "look at her" or "deal w/her" for a few days. Meanwhile, she's thinking, "I have them wrapped around my finger."


Lone Apothecary:You do nice things bc you feel you are doing some good. My friend and I are like that as well. We do for others and don't expect anything in return. I wanted to make that clear. My friend works hard and she's not the type that has that "look @ me, look @ me!" attitude. But honestly, when you keep seeing others who just come to work when they want and don't try to lend a helping hand to others who may need it @ work(when that's what your position calls for you to do), it just doesn't seem fair that they should be promoted. That creates resentment and drama in the workplace.

 

[bulmabriefs144]

From my sources:

Nice is good. The problem most nice guys have is more the fact that they are way too nice (and in a lot of cases way too shy).
That's the same reason, when people say that women don't like gentleman anymore. They still would love to have one, but "Nice" and "Well-mannered" should not be his whole character. Add some character in form of "dominance" and "sexual aggression" and you get a way more interesting guy for a lot of women. As well, a friend once told to me, that quality sure is important, but that it is better (and way more entertaining) if a guy is just good at a few things and a bit more colored in terms of character.
So not like "be the stereotype", but like "be a bit of everything."
Which was kind of an interesting view to me.

The same woman gave me this nice quote as well. "If Mr.Nice Guy still has a backbone and some balls, than he may be Mr. Perfect."

I think alot of people feel this way, that being nice and dominant, makes you more rounded.

However, could it be possible, that this is a case not of "being the stereotype" but rather "seeing the stereotype"? There are nice folk, who are that way because they were brought up that way. There are "nice" ppl who are not genuinely nice, but only acting that way as a means to an end. There are people who are nice as a side effect of being slightly submissive, and actually waiting for women to make the first move. In which case, end up screwed, because since the fifties, well-intended mothers have told their daughters "let him make the first move." Well, some of us don't.

Dominance isn't interesting, or even novel. If women actually want equal rights, they should start thinking about dating guys that aren't dominant at all. Because dominant guys will generally dominate them.

------

And yea, I confess I didn't read the OP. In the work place, being nice has no bearing on wages, promotion, etc. As I put in another thread, the purpose of a workplace is for work. Not for impressing the opposite (or same) sex, not for showing off your stamp collection, not for games or movies during company time, not for twitter or facebook. If you're thinking things other than work will somehow get promotion, you're living a pipe dream.

Now, there's something to be said for saying "forget the promotion, I want to have a personal life." If being nice has any meaning besides meaningless polite words (unless you mean it, the word "please" or "thank you" are just fillers), it should be "a person willing to put aside their dreams of personal advancement, for the sake of others."

...Okay, read the OP. You have a weird definition of "nice." The word you seek is "responsible."

Alright, here's what you tell your friend. It's possible she's working hard, but not working smart. That is, the work she does is not time-efficient. Working like a "machine" is right. What she should do, is meet with the board, and hold the point that while her work is better, the point remains that she is rarely there. And then emphasize that if given the proper pointers on how to become a better worker, she could be both come in regularly, and be a more valuable asset. You might manage to pull the job out from under that one. If they tell her there's "nothing she can do" to be a better worker, and land the position she covets, she could possibly be exploited. In that case, she may as well slack off, because there's no point in it if she doesn't like working that hard.

Exploitation happens. I went to one job, and did most of the heavy lifting (it was a Wed/Thur job, with Wed being loading veggies onto a truck and Thur being waking up at 3am for a 15+ hour unload job in the city). I didn't want to add Tues work, because I had to ditch a job I already had or do massive rescheduling. Basically, I was part-time self-employed as a gardener, and it was backup for if this guy suddenly ditched me. He constantly belittled my jobs, even though I came into work tired from trying to juggle priorities. I didn't want to piss these people off, and I didn't want to piss him off either, so I just wanted to keep my current schedule. No such luck, he hired some old friend of his for the more profitable Thurs job, meaning I was stuck with cut hours. Meanwhile, he lets this girl who works for one of his friends or something have Wednesday off because she asks (basically making me cover for her every Wednesday), while she gets to keep the Thurs job. I was doing more of the lifting than her, and she'd do the cataloging of what we sold but sometimes I'd do both, and she'd get the credit for it because I didn't take it (therefore obviously she was "more useful" because she knew how to do the catalog). It was a total slap in the face, all because he couldn't get over the fact that I didn't want to spend more time with him than I had to, but there was a double standard for her.

 

[Lone Apothecary]

Lone Apothecary:You do nice things bc you feel you are doing some good. My friend and I are like that as well. We do for others and don't expect anything in return. I wanted to make that clear. My friend works hard and she's not the type that has that "look @ me, look @ me!" attitude. But honestly, when you keep seeing others who just come to work when they want and don't try to lend a helping hand to others who may need it @ work(when that's what your position calls for you to do), it just doesn't seem fair that they should be promoted. That creates resentment and drama in the workplace.

Alright, thanks for clearing that up. When you said "...you can't just get ahead if you are nice..." it just struck me as a bit odd. That kind of made it sound as if being nice was more of a tool to reach something, but I understand where you're coming from now. I agree wholeheartedly that it is quite unfair.

 

[PyramidHead]

I think alot of people feel this way, that being nice and dominant, makes you more rounded.

However, could it be possible, that this is a case not of "being the stereotype" but rather "seeing the stereotype"? There are nice folk, who are that way because they were brought up that way. There are "nice" ppl who are not genuinely nice, but only acting that way as a means to an end. There are people who are nice as a side effect of being slightly submissive, and actually waiting for women to make the first move. In which case, end up screwed, because since the fifties, well-intended mothers have told their daughters "let him make the first move." Well, some of us don't.

Dominance isn't interesting, or even novel. If women actually want equal rights, they should start thinking about dating guys that aren't dominant at all. Because dominant guys will generally dominate them.

Kinda makes me want to ask:
Have you read "Sexual Utopia In Power" by Roger Devlin yet?

 

[Milly]

Exploitation happens. I went to one job, and did most of the heavy lifting (it was a Wed/Thur job, with Wed being loading veggies onto a truck and Thur being waking up at 3am for a 15+ hour unload job in the city). I didn't want to add Tues work, because I had to ditch a job I already had or do massive rescheduling. Basically, I was part-time self-employed as a gardener, and it was backup for if this guy suddenly ditched me. He constantly belittled my jobs, even though I came into work tired from trying to juggle priorities. I didn't want to piss these people off, and I didn't want to piss him off either, so I just wanted to keep my current schedule. No such luck, he hired some old friend of his for the more profitable Thurs job, meaning I was stuck with cut hours. Meanwhile, he lets this girl who works for one of his friends or something have Wednesday off because she asks (basically making me cover for her every Wednesday), while she gets to keep the Thurs job. I was doing more of the lifting than her, and she'd do the cataloging of what we sold but sometimes I'd do both, and she'd get the credit for it because I didn't take it (therefore obviously she was "more useful" because she knew how to do the catalog). It was a total slap in the face, all because he couldn't get over the fact that I didn't want to spend more time with him than I had to, but there was a double standard for her.

So you've already got another job - maybe he decided to reduce your hours since you've got another income and he knows someone else who could do with the work? You say yourself that you were coming into work tired, so perhaps this boss wanted someone in who wasn't tired from working another job. You also say that the girl was perceived as being "more useful" because she could do catalouging - why didn't you take the credit when you did it? There's no reason for you to keep that to yourself. Unless your boss is watching you on CCTV all the time, how's he gonna know?

 

[AFrozenSoul]

Ah yes this problem. Well the truth is that social engineering is a skill as well. When it comes to people like your friend, me.. whoever. I have noticed that if I do not make a big deal out of something the powers that be will not care. Towards the end of my last job I learned that people took notice when I bitched them out about how stupid an idea was and how they were just bending over for the client and stuff like that. Than when I just nodded and met my deadlines. Hell I noticed one year when my boss gave me a crappy review because I did not meet any goals. Well the next year the same happened. I handed him a 3.5 page list of garbage he felt was more important that sucked up all my time. How I needed to spent time researching why a page was nto loading correctly when I could just refresh it when it broke. How I had to quickly pull a special naming convention out of my ass to give the client a new feature 4 hours before launch. All sorts of stuff like that.

There is the other possibility that this person is just REALLY good at her job. Have you ever considered that possibility? Hell I have that problem. I finish work way to fast sometimes. So I just take a day off. I mean what is the harm in enjoying the fruits of your success?

 

[Woz]

I think being nice in certain ways is just rarely unrecognised. Some things people do for me always give me this indescribable feeling, it's overwhelming and I kind of feel more connected to the person, like we're on the same mindset. I keep saying thanks and they never understand why I'm saying thanks so much. I keep saying it because I can't thank them enough.

Suppose we all have different ways of niceness.

 

[5pt7art]

i can definatley relate to your freind...ive struggled with this many times at my job....i always seem to end up with the bulk of the work, while the "manager" doesnt seem to bother helping at all...mind you this is sometimes work for several people...yet its only one doing it (me).ive always just let it slide but the more i thought of it the more it angered me...so after many times of doing everything i was asked of...getting them lunch...breakfast...doing all the work...getting everything done on time...covering for others...i finally one day said no to something they wanted me to do...and to my surprise i got bitched out ...was totally surprised..specially becuase it really wasnt a job obligation...long story short...i think your freind is expected to do all those things since she always has...their perspective is why shouldnt she do it? and the other chick never does ****...for what? your freind is there to do it...unfortunatley same as me lol