Finding a relationship when people don't give you a chance

[MentatsGhoul]

it's a known fact that women get 100s of messages per month on dating sites maybe even per day, so there's no shortage of choice.

I just wanted to be sure people know that SOME women may get hundreds of messages per month... but there are a lot who DON'T. One day, I'd like to find the jerk posting these false statistics and slap him/ her around.

Why? I REALLY don't get why people are offended by that kind of stuff, and I've never gotten a good answer.

Obviously hundreds is an exaggeration, obviously not all women etc. But, it's an undeniable fact that women get approached more, get more messages online etc than men of approximately equivalent or even higher levels of attractiveness. Why is that offensive? It doesn't mean men have it worse, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with women who don't get messaged, it just means that statistically speaking women get more attention in the dating world, and thus men might end up feeling insecure or disadvantaged.

And before you hop into the "it makes women who don't get approached as often feel bad" argument
a) There's a number of reasons a woman might not get approached/messaged as much, even if they are attractive, from seeming unapproachable to actually getting approached but not being able to tell when they are. It doesn't necessarily mean that if someone doesn't get approached, there's something wrong with her. That's just something people infer themselves
b) As cruel as this sounds... why should I care? Just reverse the roles for a moment, and replace it with a female issue. Say... someone points out that men tend to cheat more. How would you feel if every time a woman pointed out that she was having trouble with her boyfriends ending up being unfaithful, some guy would jump out and say "Not all men cheat, I'm a man that's been cheated on, does that mean there's something wrong with me, you really shouldn't talk about this issue because I feel personally affected"?

 

[Veronika]

Even if women did get more messages than men, a lot of that is bad attention. Having been on dating websites, and even considering real life experiences, 95% of the men I've met have only been interested in either one night stands or casual relationships. I see a lot of guys posting about how women get approached more often than men do as well. Same thing...most of the time, these guys who approach women only want them for ***. And contrary to popular belief, that is neither flattering nor is it proof that one is physically attractive. It just makes us feel objectified.

Of course, let's not forget the 5% of good men out there, but then you have to understand. Most of us spend our days getting catcalled or having the guy we've just rejected turn violent and abusive on us, or we feel devalued because most of the guys we meet are only interested in ***. Eventually we become disillusioned and even afraid. We become distrustful of men in general because of all the bad experiences. And we too have our insecurities. I've turned down perfectly lovely men purely because I was afraid of what they might think of me once they got to know me better.

I can't speak for all women of course, but I can't remember the last time I met a female friend who was not wary of men hitting on her.

 

[lonelyfairy]

Even if women did get more messages than men, a lot of that is bad attention. Having been on dating websites, and even considering real life experiences, 95% of the men I've met have only been interested in either one night stands or casual relationships. I see a lot of guys posting about how women get approached more often than men do as well. Same thing...most of the time, these guys who approach women only want them for ***. And contrary to popular belief, that is neither flattering nor is it proof that one is physically attractive. It just makes us feel objectified.

Of course, let's not forget the 5% of good men out there, but then you have to understand. Most of us spend our days getting catcalled or having the guy we've just rejected turn violent and abusive on us, or we feel devalued because most of the guys we meet are only interested in ***. Eventually we become disillusioned and even afraid. We become distrustful of men in general because of all the bad experiences. And we too have our insecurities. I've turned down perfectly lovely men purely because I was afraid of what they might think of me once they got to know me better.

I can't speak for all women of course, but I can't remember the last time I met a female friend who was not wary of men hitting on her.

+ 1!! I agree with all of these.

 

[Revengineer]

Even if women did get more messages than men, a lot of that is bad attention. Having been on dating websites, and even considering real life experiences, 95% of the men I've met have only been interested in either one night stands or casual relationships. I see a lot of guys posting about how women get approached more often than men do as well. Same thing...most of the time, these guys who approach women only want them for ***. And contrary to popular belief, that is neither flattering nor is it proof that one is physically attractive. It just makes us feel objectified.

Of course, let's not forget the 5% of good men out there, but then you have to understand. Most of us spend our days getting catcalled or having the guy we've just rejected turn violent and abusive on us, or we feel devalued because most of the guys we meet are only interested in ***. Eventually we become disillusioned and even afraid. We become distrustful of men in general because of all the bad experiences. And we too have our insecurities. I've turned down perfectly lovely men purely because I was afraid of what they might think of me once they got to know me better.

I can't speak for all women of course, but I can't remember the last time I met a female friend who was not wary of men hitting on her.

With all respect, I think this is something that many men simply can't relate to. We don't see 95% of women as potential threats. We can't imagine that having tons of willing options can possibly be a bad thing. If one's experience is that they struggle to get ANY positive attention, their perspective will end up being vastly different.

It's important to acknowledge that both genders have their own unique problems to deal with. It''s pointless to argue "who has it worse" since nobody can really know what the other side is like...

 

[Veronika]

With all respect, I think this is something that many men simply can't relate to. We don't see 95% of women as potential threats. We can't imagine that having tons of willing options can possibly be a bad thing. If one's experience is that they struggle to get ANY positive attention, their perspective will end up being vastly different.

It's important to acknowledge that both genders have their own unique problems to deal with. It''s pointless to argue "who has it worse" since nobody can really know what the other side is like...

You're right, both men and women have different struggles, but the fact is both have it tough. I was just trying to point out women's struggles to the men who appear to think that women have it easy, that's all. Doesn't discount the difficulties men face.

Also, why not try to relate or empathise with the other party's struggles? Wouldn't it help us have a better understanding of the situation and allow us to be fair in our judgements?

 

[MentatsGhoul]

Even if women did get more messages than men, a lot of that is bad attention. Having been on dating websites, and even considering real life experiences, 95% of the men I've met have only been interested in either one night stands or casual relationships. I see a lot of guys posting about how women get approached more often than men do as well. Same thing...most of the time, these guys who approach women only want them for ***. And contrary to popular belief, that is neither flattering nor is it proof that one is physically attractive. It just makes us feel objectified.

Of course, let's not forget the 5% of good men out there, but then you have to understand. Most of us spend our days getting catcalled or having the guy we've just rejected turn violent and abusive on us, or we feel devalued because most of the guys we meet are only interested in ***. Eventually we become disillusioned and even afraid. We become distrustful of men in general because of all the bad experiences. And we too have our insecurities. I've turned down perfectly lovely men purely because I was afraid of what they might think of me once they got to know me better.

I can't speak for all women of course, but I can't remember the last time I met a female friend who was not wary of men hitting on her.

Now you're putting words in my mouth though. I'm well aware most of the "approaches" are uncomfortable and with the intention of just seeking out ***, most of my friends over these past few years so I know how men can be. In fact, I'm pretty sure I specifically pointed out that I wasn't trying to say "men have it worse" or even compare women's issues to men's. Hell, I've been "catcalled" and aggressively approached BY WOMEN once or twice, and that's made me uncomfortable, so you'll get no argument from me there. But that doesn't really answer my question

I was simply asking why, when men talk about their issues related to approaching women and never getting approached themselves, some women seem to automatically get offended. Personally speaking, I will probably "approach" maybe... one or two women at best a year. Why? Because, as someone with a lot of anxiety, I have a hard time talking to people as it is, especially initiating conversation, and I just don't feel strong attraction to a lot of people, so I have little motivation to do it unless I really like a specific girl. I can probably count the amount of times I've been approached first on one hand, and even those are so vague, I'm not even sure in most cases. If I had even two or three women a year initiate something with me first, my chances of finding a partner would increase exponentially, since chances are that I would give at least one of them a chance, plus being approached first eliminates a lot of other variables, such as worrying whether the other person is in a relationship already or even simply whethre they're attracted to you in the first place. And I'm not mad at women or entitled to their attention, but I'm just saying, it gets frustrating sometimes and it would be nice to be on the other side for once. And it's also a bit frustrating that every time, at the mere mention of it, even if it's just a side comment, people seem to automatically label you as a fedora wearing sexist.

 

[ardour]

How do you know they are only interested in that - do they proposition you or make suggestive comments? A case of feeling uneasy for hard to pin down reasons?
While catcalling is certainly a thing women have to endure (not so much over here, but generally), often the judgement that men are only interested in *** is used to invalidate men considered not good enough to be in their social circles.

 

[Veronika]

Now you're putting words in my mouth though. I'm well aware most of the "approaches" are uncomfortable and with the intention of just seeking out ***, most of my friends over these past few years so I know how men can be. In fact, I'm pretty sure I specifically pointed out that I wasn't trying to say "men have it worse" or even compare women's issues to men's. Hell, I've been "catcalled" and aggressively approached BY WOMEN once or twice, and that's made me uncomfortable, so you'll get no argument from me there. But that doesn't really answer my question

I was simply asking why, when men talk about their issues related to approaching women and never getting approached themselves, some women seem to automatically get offended. Personally speaking, I will probably "approach" maybe... one or two women at best a year. Why? Because, as someone with a lot of anxiety, I have a hard time talking to people as it is, especially initiating conversation, and I just don't feel strong attraction to a lot of people, so I have little motivation to do it unless I really like a specific girl. I can probably count the amount of times I've been approached first on one hand, and even those are so vague, I'm not even sure in most cases. If I had even two or three women a year initiate something with me first, my chances of finding a partner would increase exponentially, since chances are that I would give at least one of them a chance, plus being approached first eliminates a lot of other variables, such as worrying whether the other person is in a relationship already or even simply whethre they're attracted to you in the first place. And I'm not mad at women or entitled to their attention, but I'm just saying, it gets frustrating sometimes and it would be nice to be on the other side for once. And it's also a bit frustrating that every time, at the mere mention of it, even if it's just a side comment, people seem to automatically label you as a fedora wearing sexist.

I don't understand why you would think my post was aimed at you. It was a general statement to offer a different perspective on the matter. That perhaps if some men are reading this thread and are feeling disappointed and frustrated by their lack of success, that perhaps they shouldnt blame themselves because the problem could lie with others or this method of online dating could be flawed.

 

[Veronika]

How do you know they are only interested in that - do they proposition you or make suggestive comments? A case of feeling uneasy for hard to pin down reasons?
While catcalling is certainly a thing women have to endure (not so much over here, but generally), often the judgement that men are only interested in *** is used to invalidate men considered not good enough to be in their social circles.

Yes. Suggestive comments, clearly stating that they only want something casual, never engaging in a serious topic of conversation and always turning it into a sexual one. I think its safe to say under such circumstances that one has not assumed anything about their intentions when they've made it so clear.

Don't know if your claim is true, but the women who are doing that are being undeniably cruel.

 

[handheart]

Well i think you should leave confort zone and interact as much as you can ,at first maybe you will make ba moves and you will feel bad but after a whyle you will gain experience