Gone girl - psychopathy vs a selfish *******

[stork_error]

Gone girl - the movie... an analysis

So the wife got cheated on by a selfish *******.
The feelings she must have experienced were
Pain, betrayal, shock, anger, hurt, frustration, embarrassment, despair, disbelief, mourning, loss, possible feeling of suicide, hopelessness, and trauma

The ******* took her from her home and family and moved her far away when she had breast cancer and he didn't even care about what she actually wanted
The feelings she must have experienced were that she was made to feel unimportant, neglected, ignored, mistreated, unvalued, devalued, under-appreciated, that her feelings wern't important. She was faced with the reality that her husband is selfish, inconsiderate and self centred *******

She allowed him to constantly sexually objectify her, F-ing her up the a** with her back to his face. He stopped making love to her.
The feelings she must have felt were
Objectification, unloved, worthlessness, shame, guilt, embarrassment, sadness, hopelessness, fear, despair, mourning for the past.
( not that sexual exploration is "wrong" per say , just in the context of the movie, it served to illustrate the objectification she was experiencing.

The ******* went out with his friends and left her at home every night.
He was cheating on her with a 20 year old kid in comparison
The ******* used the wife for her money, her house, her credit, for loans, and to buy him a business.
The feelings she must have experienced were feelings of being used, played, only needed for her money, unworthy of love, despair about the fact that her husband was not in love with her, sadness and guilt about her choice to help him, regret.

So when she discovered he was cheating, she planned revenge by setting him up with an elaborate plot...she staged him to be convicted of her murder, (she actually planned to kill herself).

The feelings he must have experienced when he was first blamed for her disappearance and potential murder were
wrongful persecution, fear, injustice, pain, trauma, disbelief, horror
The feeling he must have experienced when he discovered she was behind it were
Shock, more fear, disbelief, followed by anger and horror then confusion and despair.

She lost a marriage, her money, her dignity, her self respect, the love of her life, her life as she knew it, her sanity ( if it was ever there) and years wasted

He stood to loose his reputation, his friends, his family, his wife and if the plan had have gone through, he would have lost countless years from his life being in jail and been forever changed by jail life, and would have had to live with deep rooted feelings of a sense of injustice and a feeling of betrayl from his wife and anger because of it.

As devils advocate i question this...

Why are her behaviours considered worse just because they are "illegal". Her illegal behaviors would have caused painful feelings to him as well but what about the painful feelings he caused to her why are those not illegal, and because they are not, are they any less worthy of consequence or punishment as an illegal behavior?

And to top that off, he did it first. He decieved her first.

So, interestingly, in order to be considered "human" and not psychopathic one has to be able to withstand creul and purposeful assaults from other human beings and simply be able to turn the other cheek. The wife was not able to do this, nor did it seem she wanted to. What she wanted was revenge.

The woman who was viewed as a psychopath was simply saying, lying to me is not ok, cheating is not ok, betrayal is not ok, using me is not ok, playing me is not ok, humiliating me is not ok, ruining my life is not ok.... and I will make you pay for it.

So really, is the ability to take revenge the discerning feature of psychopathy?

The psychopath seeks revenge and the non psychopath walks away?

What if you were a bystander watching this situation play out, what would you actually feel for both the woman and for the man?

Would you think the man made some mistakes but the woman is a psychopath and needs to be locked up?

Would you think the man is a narcissist and the woman is an unfortunate victim who was driven to insanity?

Would you think the man is a narcissist and the woman is a psychopath and they are both piles of ****?

Would you think the man deserves to wrongly rot in jail for what he did to her?

Would you think he deserves to go to jail but still wouldn't actually be ok with it if it happened

Would you think nobody deserves to go to jail for something they didn't do, no matter what they did to anyone else.

Whats your take.

I recognize that the woman was mentally unwell, but I question to what extent was she driven there. Could her state of mental unwellness have actually been acquired due to abuse. Is it possible that once upon a time she didn't have these kinds of vengeful feelings or thoughts and was actually driven to this insanity? And is the discerning feature of psychopathy the fact that she was able to act on these feelings and not the feelings themselves ?

What about a woman who is raped and later kills her rapist. Does that make her a psychopath or is she a woman who went insane ?

What about a woman who is raped and dreams every night about killing her rapist and even buys a gun and plots his death, but when it comes down to it face to face, she simply cant do it? Does this make her less insane or totally sane?

Can trauma cause a temporary state of mind comparable to psychopathy and if triggered in this state could someone actually act of psychopathic like feelings?

Are "terrorists" born that way with something missing or do they develop terrorist minds due to injustice, abuse or unfairness.

And my final question, should their be consequences for cheating, lying or gross betrayal and would this result in a less angry and less violent society.

Some countries have laws against cheating, but unfortunately in those countries those laws were created with misogenistic discrimination towards woman.

 

[BeyondShy]

I'm a bit confused here. Do you want people to analyze fictional characters here as if they are real people who did real things?

I have not seen this movie and after reading your description of it I am not going to.

But you did ask some detailed questions about this movie and I think they are best answered at the Gone Girl IMDB page. There's already fourteen pages of comments about this movie there already and with all the points you brought up you're sure to more than double it.

 

[Triple Bogey]

It was a good film, I enjoyed it. The woman was crazy.

 

[user 115627]

I got a question after I hearing of this movie a few times, reading the synopsis but not having seen it yet.

Where did the parts with the breast cancer and the sexual abuse/objectivication come from? I couldn't find them anywhere.

 

[stork_error]

I got a question after I hearing of this movie a few times, reading the synopsis but not having seen it yet.

Where did the parts with the breast cancer and the sexual abuse/objectivication come from? I couldn't find them anywhere.

just minor facts of the movie

During the movie narrative ( probably of her diary entries ) she says that she was diagnosed with breast cancer... I think anyway. It was a scene where she was getting in a car and narrating about the move I think. The volume was low so I could have misheard.

And the sexual exploitation comes from a scene where he is f-ing her from behind and theres no love about it and she is again narrating the experience of being just a body. Her screws her and is done.

And the fact that he was cheating on her.

---

It was a good film, I enjoyed it. The woman was crazy.

And the guy was a prick. But because the girl had lost her ****, the fact that the guy was a cheating prick got overlooked. How many woman does this happen to, and even men for that matter and how crazy can a human being be driven vs how crazy they already are.

---

I'm a bit confused here. Do you want people to analyze fictional characters here as if they are real people who did real things?

I'm sure it happens in the real world too so yes

I have not seen this movie and after reading your description of it I am not going to.

I hear ya, its kind of scary... psychologically speaking anyway,

But you did ask some detailed questions about this movie and I think they are best answered at the Gone Girl IMDB page. There's already fourteen pages of comments about this movie there already and with all the points you brought up you're sure to more than double it.

Theres lots of places where people talk about other topics too but I posted this here because I know that there are a few pretty deep thinkers here, people with personal experience, and people who like to think, ponder and examine the nature of human behaviour in order to better understand themselves.

I think I'm more curious to know what deeper more analytical people think vs the general IMDB population of fluffs.

 

[SofiasMami]

I read the book a few years ago, which was a page-turner but haven't seen the movie. I still have it on my Kindle, maybe I'll read it again.
Neither the husband nor the wife were sympathetic characters. They are both the bad guy. Maybe that is why it's a good story because it makes you think.
To me, living well is the best revenge on those who have wronged you and that is where the attitudes of the wife and I diverge. Staging your own disappearance is not living well.

-Teresa

 

[stork_error]

I read the book a few years ago, which was a page-turner but haven't seen the movie. I still have it on my Kindle, maybe I'll read it again.
Neither the husband nor the wife were sympathetic characters. They are both the bad guy. Maybe that is why it's a good story because it makes you think.
To me, living well is the best revenge on those who have wronged you and that is where the attitudes of the wife and I diverge. Staging your own disappearance is not living well.

I agree with the living well is the best revenge idea, but I wonder what pushes people over the edge.
Does it start with ill feelings about revenge and then progress to actual revenge or are ill feelings natural when you experience trauma.
Is a persons moral character a permanent thing or can a person actually change not only their actions, but how they actually feel inside about them.

 

[dd11]

I didnt see the movie. I will answer in general. If someone is treating you badly , stand up for yourself. Would it not have been better to walk away earlier rather than later?

 

[BeyondShy]

I'm a bit confused here. Do you want people to analyze fictional characters here as if they are real people who did real things?

I'm sure it happens in the real world too so yes

Yeah I guess so but not exactly how you saw it in that movie. If you really want all your questions answered you should corner the screenwriter of the movie in a stairwell someplace and ask her these questions.

Everything you saw in that movie was out of someone's imagination. I did a little bit of reading on this and this movie is not a true story. So what I mean to say is that the amount of selfishness, the adultery, etc, etc was preordained. All these things that made you write so much about were actors bringing to life a good script.

 

[Peaches]

In the movie she was a control freak and completely un-genuine and wearing a mask all the time, living the life of the character her parents created in their books, and after a while in the marriage she started belittling him and being obsessionally possessive, so in a sense this is why he started cheating (not condoning it, mind me, he was also a passive jerk who didn't mind getting her money, and who put himself between her and her family) - their love was not genuine, he was very infatuated and actually he thought he loved her, but she wasn't what she seemed to be (also considering her psychopatic tendencies, and that she could kill in cold blood and not feel remorse ever). Nice situation where two passive aggressive people do their best to hurt each other. She can be called a psychopath because of her rational planning, and her total emotional disconnection, and how she'd just kill people without blinking an eye. I guess a lot of (sane) people never reach that point, no matter how much the hurt.

And now we spoiled this nice movie for everyone
It's a nice movie, really.

 

[BeyondShy]

.....And now we spoiled this nice movie for everyone

Oh no you didn't. Just reading your post insured that I will never have any interest in watching this movie. I'll take an action-adventure movie or comedy any day over this.

 

[Peaches]

honestly, it's very bitter and funny and sad and surprising -and it makes you think, as stork error demonstrates
now I have to watch it again
but yeah, watch a comedy afterwards...

 

[kamya]

It's called gone girl for a reason.

Would you think the man made some mistakes but the woman is a psychopath and needs to be locked up?

Yup.

 

[user 115627]

During the movie narrative ( probably of her diary entries ) she says that she was diagnosed with breast cancer... I think anyway. It was a scene where she was getting in a car and narrating about the move I think. The volume was low so I could have misheard.

And the sexual exploitation comes from a scene where he is f-ing her from behind and theres no love about it and she is again narrating the experience of being just a body. Her screws her and is done.

And the fact that he was cheating on her.

Interesting. That's the point where I wonder how much they carried the theme of unreliable narrators into the movie. From what I've read you can trust neither the woman's nor the man's perspective which does put a lot of these claims into question. So in the end I'd say both are ********, inevitably raised to be ******** by their parents though. I'm not going to sit down and think for myself: "Is the man or the woman more believable?"

It takes a lot to push a person over the edge and even if the cheating is the only real fact, I think that the murder plot and how this woman managed to kill her ex-boyfriend later on proves that she had certain tendencies beforehand. Hand any normal person a gun and put them in front of the person they hate the most...they'd probably couldn't pull the trigger, no matter how safe they are from the consequences.

 

[stork_error]

Yeah I guess so but not exactly how you saw it in that movie. If you really want all your questions answered you should corner the screenwriter of the movie in a stairwell someplace and ask her these questions.

Note to self.

Everything you saw in that movie was out of someone's imagination.

Yes, but something must have provoked that imagination. Talented writers are capable of such dark thoughts, does this make them evil minded because they can tap into the mentality of sinister thoughts in order to write their script

I did a little bit of reading on this and this movie is not a true story. So what I mean to say is that the amount of selfishness, the adultery, etc, etc was preordained. All these things that made you write so much about were actors bringing to life a good script.

Actually a friend of mine mentioned it was thought provoking and so I watched it. I actually really did think the acting was good.

And in life nasty people set other people up all the time. Its the whole idea of trying to figure out how does someone become capable of doing this to another human being and what makes one person capable of doing it and another person not. And can a human be pushed over the edge into this state of mind.

---

In the movie she was a control freak and completely un-genuine and wearing a mask all the time, living the life of the character her parents created in their books, and after a while in the marriage she started belittling him and being obsessionally possessive, so in a sense this is why he started cheating (not condoning it, mind me, he was also a passive jerk who didn't mind getting her money, and who put himself between her and her family) - their love was not genuine, he was very infatuated and actually he thought he loved her, but she wasn't what she seemed to be (also considering her psychopatic tendencies, and that she could kill in cold blood and not feel remorse ever). Nice situation where two passive aggressive people do their best to hurt each other. She can be called a psychopath because of her rational planning, and her total emotional disconnection, and how she'd just kill people without blinking an eye. I guess a lot of (sane) people never reach that point, no matter how much the hurt.

And now we spoiled this nice movie for everyone
It's a nice movie, really.

lol peach, I like your answer. Especially the rational planning part. A very good point made.

She was also jealous of that character, I wonder how the writer felt this was tied in to the development of her personality

---

Interesting. That's the point where I wonder how much they carried the theme of unreliable narrators into the movie.
This is a very good point
As the woman narrates her feelings, there is no guarantee that they are accurate just because she appears to be feeling them

I'm not going to sit down and think for myself: "Is the man or the woman more believable?"

The woman was psycho -crazy and the man was a prick, its pretty obvious, but to what extent do we empathize with either characters experience... if any.

I think that the murder plot and how this woman managed to kill her ex-boyfriend later on proves that she had certain tendencies beforehand.

Devils advocate... I think he was holding her against her will and was a bit crazy himself with all the cameras in the house and how he wouldn't let her watch tv and how he shut it off when she was watching it.

Technically she was actually experiencing a kidnapping really. Since it seemed apparent that his plans were to keep her hostage. At this point, knowing you were kidnapped, what would it take to be capeable of killing your kidnapper. Clearly easy for psycho girl but what if you were kidnapped, could you commit murder then?

Hand any normal person a gun and put them in front of the person they hate the most...they'd probably couldn't pull the trigger, no matter how safe they are from the consequences.
This is probably the exact question I'm curious about.

who could pull the trigger?
who wants to pull the trigger but isnt able?
who doesnt want to pull the trigger ?

Can the person who isnt able at some point become able at another point if they are pushed/abused

Random thoughts, great conversation though, thinking is great !

---

Any movie recommendations for tonight lol?

 

[Triple Bogey]

I think the woman looked 'creepy'

 

[user 115627]

Devils advocate... I think he was holding her against her will and was a bit crazy himself with all the cameras in the house and how he wouldn't let her watch tv and how he shut it off when she was watching it.

Technically she was actually experiencing a kidnapping really. Since it seemed apparent that his plans were to keep her hostage. At this point, knowing you were kidnapped, what would it take to be capeable of killing your kidnapper. Clearly easy for psycho girl but what if you were kidnapped, could you commit murder then?

Mind you, from what I've reading so far, I'd say the possessive behavior of the ex-boyfriend does not warrant killing him. Of course, it could've escalated to something worse later on. But in kidnapping scenarios the victim wouldn't necessarily feel forced to kill her kidnapper to escape unless he/she was severely abused. It is indeed easy for a psychopath to kill a kidnapper because of plain rationality: If he's dead, he can't catch me. The way I see it, killing is usually the last resort for normal thinking people.

Could I commit murder in a kidnapping scenario? I do not know. The motive of the kidnapping is actually quite important here. When it's about money the kidnapper is interested in keeping you and himself alive. If it's motivated by emotions of any kind...then it's other case. And thinking about the consequences, I'd have to justify some sort of self-defense. I have no idea how a jury looks at these cases. Knocking the kidnapper out and wrapping him up in enough duct tape till he looks like a modern-day mummy might be preferable. I have only killed people in my dreams.

who could pull the trigger?
who wants to pull the trigger but isnt able?
who doesnt want to pull the trigger ?

Can the person who isnt able at some point become able at another point if they are pushed/abused

Anyone can be pushed over the edge and back to their primal instincts - the survival of the fittest. But the necessary strength of the push varies from person to person. Psychopaths have it easy, they look at it rationally. Normal people will always hesitate. You probably heard the rule of thumb pretty often: The first life is always the hardest to take. I'd say if only enough abuse and threats are taking place, every person will be pushed through the stages you have listed up there. At first they don't want to (morals), then they want but fail (gunpoint weakness) and finally they do. Problem is, you might only get one shot.

Any movie recommendations for tonight lol?

On the topic of unreliable narrators, I could suggest "Spider" by David Cronenberg. On the topic of abuse and kidnapping (sort of), I could suggest "An American Crime" - but that one is raw. Really hard to stomach.

 

[lifestream]

I think Amy's behaviour is worse than Nick's because it was so cold and calculated, he was merely selfish and thoughtless. Since we're seeing two very different recollections of the same story, it's impossible to know what the truth is but I suspect it falls somewhere in between. Anyway, neither character was worthy of redemption; they were both narcissistic and, in one case, on the sociopathic end of the spectrum. If some new knowledge of the self had been gained by either character, I might feel differently, but all that was revealed was the depth of these two people's enduring, obsessive hatred of one another.

 

[stork_error]

I think Amy's behaviour is worse than Nick's because it was so cold and calculated, he was merely selfish and thoughtless. Since we're seeing two very different recollections of the same story, it's impossible to know what the truth is but I suspect it falls somewhere in between. Anyway, neither character was worthy of redemption; they were both narcissistic and, in one case, on the sociopathic end of the spectrum. If some new knowledge of the self had been gained by either character, I might feel differently, but all that was revealed was the depth of these two people's enduring, obsessive hatred of one another.

Yes, It was clear that the woman didn't have remorse because she wasn't capable, but the guy didn't really have any either. There was never even a conversation with his sister that showed he had any concern for his own wrongdoings. I think in regards to the way he did the BS acting interview, begging for her to come back, its almost as if the writer had him do it so well, just so that she could illustrate how much of an phoney the guy really was and that he wasn't a whole lot better of a person than his crazy wife.
The dynamic between a psychopath and a narcissist. The scene at the end where she puts her head on his chest then looks up at him with that devious and disturbed look... totally unsettling.

 

[kamya]

If everyone that ever cheated without feeling bad about it got murdered or set up for death row execution there would be almost no one left.

Bitch is crazy. Dude had to do whatever he could think of to get out of murder charges. It's hard to condemn him for anything really.