homosexuals and marriage

[Punisher]

unlike now, where we are needing to decrease the population and Nature is promoting homosexuality to achieve that. [/color]

Nature does not work like that- it does not "promote" anything. That's just another religious-like mentality of anthropomorphizing the universe around us by acting as if this force has intent. Nature isn't conscious and doesn't have plans or desires.

It's wrong to give natural forces human characteristics. That's one of the major failures of all superstitious viewpoints of the world.

umm if you say so that has nothing to do with the point i was trying to make. I couldn't care less about that part, it's just what was sent to me by a friend.

My point: Christianity is not anti-gay, just a few Christians happen to be.

and those are the christians that we want to burn in hell...just for lulz


fredrick/punny-poo's right, its only a hand-full of idiots, not all christians are anti-gay, not all [inser any religion] are anti-[insert everything considered bad]

Burn in hell for lulz

If anyone even cared to look, they would be shocked (if they don't already know). But enough of that, so shush now Vanny-poo .

 

[Jack Kerouac]

umm if you say so that has nothing to do with the point i was trying to make. I couldn't care less about that part, it's just what was sent to me by a friend.

I realized that wasn't your point, I just thought that part of the article was especially crazy and should probably be commented on. So nothing against you- whoever wrote it doesn't understand what nature is.

My point: Christianity is not anti-gay, just a few Christians happen to be.

An objective Christianity doesn't really even exist in the first place, so we can make all kinds of arguments about what Christianity is or isn't and waste a ton of time on that for no reason. Christians seemingly spend most of their time doing this themselves, and I think that's a reason so few people actually spend time asking themselves whether or not their religious beliefs are real in the first place- they're just too busy trying to prove that they know what their magic book truly says and the outgroup members are getting it wrong.

Bottom line is that religion and fantasy should have nothing to do with government no matter what their books do or don't say- that should be drilled into everyone's heads from an early age. If somebody wants to play their imagination game in their own free time and keep the people who don't want to play out of it, more power to them.

As for why people pick on Christians so much- fundamentalist Christians are a huge problem with the US, so they're going to be talked about frequently by Americans.

Actually anybody who thinks they know what some all powerful magic being that nobody can see or find or have a real conversation with thinks is a huge problem to any country- even if they think this magic guy wants them to paint rainbows and be nice to their neighbors and avoid candy after midnight. If I want candy after midnight, nobody's imaginary friend should get in my way. Arguing about what the Lord of the Rings trillogy or Dianetics or the Bible says on the matter is meaningless when it comes down to it.

 

[Van Hooligan X]

:'(

Curse Skorian's stupidity for killing our favourite joke, why is he stupid .

 

[Punisher]

umm if you say so that has nothing to do with the point i was trying to make. I couldn't care less about that part, it's just what was sent to me by a friend.

I realized that wasn't your point, I just thought that part of the article was especially crazy and should probably be commented on. So nothing against you- whoever wrote it doesn't understand what nature is.

My point: Christianity is not anti-gay, just a few Christians happen to be.

An objective Christianity doesn't really even exist in the first place, so we can make all kinds of arguments about what Christianity is or isn't and waste a ton of time on that for no reason. Christians seemingly spend most of their time doing this themselves, and I think that's a reason so few people actually spend time asking themselves whether or not their religious beliefs are real in the first place- they're just too busy trying to prove that they know what their magic book truly says and the outgroup members are getting it wrong.

Bottom line is that religion and fantasy should have nothing to do with government no matter what their books do or don't say- that should be drilled into everyone's heads from an early age. If somebody wants to play their imagination game in their own free time and keep the people who don't want to play out of it, more power to them.

As for why people pick on Christians so much- fundamentalist Christians are a huge problem with the US, so they're going to be talked about frequently by Americans.

Actually anybody who thinks they know what some all powerful magic being that nobody can see or find or have a real conversation with thinks is a huge problem to any country- even if they think this magic guy wants them to paint rainbows and be nice to their neighbors and avoid candy after midnight. If I want candy after midnight, nobody's imaginary friend should get in my way. Arguing about what the Lord of the Rings trillogy or Dianetics or the Bible says on the matter is meaningless when it comes down to it.

O_O I don't really care what you believe about nature and religion.

"Christianity is not anti-gay, just a few Christians happen to be."

 

[Punisher]

:'(

Curse Skorian's stupidity for killing our favourite joke, why is he stupid .

 

[wannabeXL]

I've often wondered how homosexuality fits in with the evolutionary goal of survival of the species

Evolution can't always eliminate "undesirable traits," but it does reduce the number of those with the traits to such a small number. Homosexuality actually does make sense in light of evolution, since only 1% of men and up to 3% of women are really, truly gay. (I'm pretty sure someone one can explain this better than I ever will. I might post a link later when I have the energy to do so.)

In the bible god states that marriage is when a man and a women become one flesh.

I don't think the Bible ever states that specifically. I know many people like to quote Genesis to say that God wants marriage to be between a man and a woman, but I don't think that's the whole point of the story of Adam and Eve.

I recall reading a possible explanation why people in the Leviticus times consider homosexuality a sin. In the olden days, the Jewish culture considered it a sin to let your sperm go into anywhere but a vaginal canal. When a man has sex with a man, there's no vaginal canal for any sperm to go into - hence the double sin. I guess this theory also explains why many people believe that masturbating is a sin and why Onan got zapped by God for "spilling his seeds on the ground" - though his impure intentions undoubtedly contributed something to that.

My point: Christianity is not anti-gay, just a few Christians happen to be.

Christianity as a religion is diverse. To say that Christianity is [insert an adjective here] would be incorrect. Maybe you as a Christian isn't anti-gay, but your personal beliefs don't represent the beliefs of other Christians, much less Christianity itself.

 

[Punisher]

My point: Christianity is not anti-gay, just a few Christians happen to be.

Christianity as a religion is diverse. To say that Christianity is [insert an adjective here] would be incorrect. Maybe you as a Christian isn't anti-gay, but your personal beliefs don't represent the beliefs of other Christians, much less Christianity itself.

It's not my "personal beliefs" it's what Jesus said that makes Christianity, and he did not say 'homosexuallity is wrong'.

My "personal beliefs" (what Jesus said) represents Christianity, not Christians.

 

[Van Hooligan X]

i do hope people are realising that this is based on peoples opinions...and opinions are different from FACTS.


having said that punny-poo's 'personal beliefs' ( ) are actually biblically correct....jesus aint a gay basher ppl

ONE MOAR FING!
this ISN'T a topic on what christianity stands for on homosexuals and marriage and honestly all its gunna do is continue creating fights

stick to the damn topic ppl :S

 

[Jack Kerouac]

It's not my "personal beliefs" it's what Jesus said that makes Christianity, and he did not say 'homosexuallity is wrong'.

My "personal beliefs" (what Jesus said) represents Christianity, not Christians.

But there is no true Christianity- there are just many versions of it that different Christian religions construct based on their readings of a whole lot of vague mythological texts from random people that were put into a book.

Christianity is made mainly from people taking vague stories and acting as if there is supernatural power in them.

It's extremely common for people to somehow believe what they are reading from the magic books is the true word of magic intended by their superhero creator that other sects are misunderstanding, but the point remains that these religious texts are not straightforward, with many parts not even really making sense taken together, and are very easy to use to prove all kinds of uncompatible stances, so everyone gets to go on forever claiming their view is the correct one.

No one named Jesus ever wrote anything in the first place, so saying "what Jesus said" is also kind of useless. If such a person did exist, the stories of what he said are written by people who didn't all actually even claim to be there when they were said, so it's essentially hearsay. You will never be able to know "what Jesus said", even if he did exist or was a magic god.

Also, this Jesus is suppossed to have said that he did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, so apparently what Jesus's message entails according to that version of the story is also something you can get by reading the stories in the old testament. "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

And to top that off, most of what became of Christianity comes through Paul, a guy who never even saw that a Jesus actually existed, and who seems heavily influenced in thinking from the mystery religions of the time. The reason his version was most popularized has to do with the fact that he made the message which was originally just for a sect of Jews something non Jewish. Without Paul Christianity would have died out.

The idea that there is one form of correct Christianity that can be proven to be so over all the others is simply not true. Christianity is like all the other myths and you can form countless religions out of it, and people have been doing just that.

But it's very healthy for the religion that it is so vague and contradictory, because that's what keeps people too preoccupied with inner religion debates to ever research whether or not the book should be listened to in the first place.

 

[Jack Kerouac]

ONE MOAR FING!
this ISN'T a topic on what christianity stands for on homosexuals and marriage and honestly all its gunna do is continue creating fights

stick to the damn topic ppl :S

Actually read the first post. It tied what christianity stands for on homosexuals directly into the topic from the start.

The only bottom line though is what a religious book says shouldn't matter in the first place.

 

[Van Hooligan X]

yeah it may have, but the whole damn post doesn't talk about bloody christanity and 5/6's of this thread has...

and it is about the gays and marriage of christanity, NOT what christianity stands for or the knock off variations its created...thats a topic for another thread

and if it doesn't matter why are we still talking about it, people only talk about things if it bothers them, even if you get someone who concludes the discussion or stops the convo, people who are bothered about it will continue talking about it. which kind of makes me wonder about a few of you guys :S

 

[Punisher]

It's not my "personal beliefs" it's what Jesus said that makes Christianity, and he did not say 'homosexuallity is wrong'.

My "personal beliefs" (what Jesus said) represents Christianity, not Christians.

But there is no true Christianity- there are just many versions of it that different Christian religions construct based on their readings of a whole lot of vague mythological texts from random people that were put into a book.

Christianity is made mainly from people taking vague stories and acting as if there is supernatural power in them.

It's extremely common for people to somehow believe what they are reading from the magic books is the true word of magic intended by their superhero creator that other sects are misunderstanding, but the point remains that these religious texts are not straightforward, with many parts not even really making sense taken together, and are very easy to use to prove all kinds of uncompatible stances, so everyone gets to go on forever claiming their view is the correct one.

No one named Jesus ever wrote anything in the first place, so saying "what Jesus said" is also kind of useless. If such a person did exist, the stories of what he said are written by people who didn't all actually even claim to be there when they were said, so it's essentially hearsay. You will never be able to know "what Jesus said", even if he did exist or was a magic god.

Also, this Jesus is suppossed to have said that he did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, so apparently what Jesus's message entails according to that version of the story is also something you can get by reading the stories in the old testament. "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

And to top that off, most of what became of Christianity comes through Paul, a guy who never even saw that a Jesus actually existed, and who seems heavily influenced in thinking from the mystery religions of the time. The reason his version was most popularized has to do with the fact that he made the message which was originally just for a sect of Jews something non Jewish. Without Paul Christianity would have died out.

The idea that there is one form of correct Christianity that can be proven to be so over all the others is simply not true. Christianity is like all the other myths and you can form countless religions out of it, and people have been doing just that.

But it's very healthy for the religion that it is so vague and contradictory, because that's what keeps people too preoccupied with inner religion debates to ever research whether or not the book should be listened to in the first place.

Atheist with a chip on his shoulder?

I'm just going to say one thing: Christianity is about the red letters (what Jesus said). I don't care if Barney the dinosaur actually said them, those words (the red letters) are what makes Christianity.

 

[Jack Kerouac]

and if it doesn't matter why are we still talking about it, people only talk about things if it bothers them, even if you get someone who concludes the discussion or stops the convo, people who are bothered about it will continue talking about it. which kind of makes me wonder about a few of you guys :S

What a religious book says shouldn't matter because, well, religious books are composed of MYTH as opposed to reality, with archetypal stories giving coping mechanisms for handling the horrors of death and lack of justice in nature. These books shouldn't be used to guide governmental institutions such as marriage.

If you want to play the game where a guy named Jesus who nobody can see anymore came from the sky and died for you so you can live after you are dead for some reason instead of making it so you don't die in the first place, that's cool, but that shouldn't be the source people get their governmental laws from. It's very offensive that people look to such things in the first place.

What this Jesus may or may not have thought about gay marriage, if he even existed, shouldn't guide secular law. In a rational society people would actually discuss whether or not there is something about gay marriage that should be allowed or not and leave religious texts completely out of it.

 

[Jack Kerouac]

Atheist with a chip on his shoulder?

Nice job avoiding what you didn't want to hear completely.

I'm just going to say one thing: Christianity is about the red letters (what Jesus said). I don't care if Barney the dinosaur actually said them, those words (the red letters) are what makes Christianity.

Then throw out every story in the Bible that isn't a direct quote from Jesus and make up your own Christian religion with that.

But you would still just be making up one of many Christian myths by using your own self derived rules to play your own religious game. But that's how mythology works so what you are doing is very expected.

 

[Punisher]

Atheist with a chip on his shoulder?

Nice job avoiding what you didn't want to hear completely.

I'm just going to say one thing: Christianity is about the red letters (what Jesus said). I don't care if Barney the dinosaur actually said them, those words (the red letters) are what makes Christianity.

Then throw out every story in the Bible that isn't a direct quote from Jesus and make up your own Christian religion with that.

But you would still just be making up one of many Christian myths by using your own self derived rules to play your own religious game. But that's how mythology works so what you are doing is very expected.

I've heard all this bollocks too many times. Go onto a Christian forum (with people who have more knowledge on the subject) and try it with them. This forum is for Lonely people, not for Atheists trolling with *****.

 

[Jack Kerouac]

I've heard all this bollocks too many times. Go onto a Christian forum (with people who have more knowledge on the subject) and try it with them. This forum is for Lonely people, not for Atheists trolling with *****.

From all I can tell you're on here preaching your version of Christianity and then expecting people to agree with you and what you think it means in terms of gay marriage, and avoiding anything that you don't want to hear.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the "Up for Debate" and "controversial" section- not the place to talk about being lonely. There are plenty of places to talk about that here.

 

[PieBeNice]

I've heard all this bollocks too many times. Go onto a Christian forum (with people who have more knowledge on the subject) and try it with them. This forum is for Lonely people, not for Atheists trolling with *****.

From all I can tell you're on here preaching your version of Christianity and then expecting people to agree with you and what you think it means in terms of gay marriage, and avoiding anything that you don't want to hear.

From all I can tell you're on here preaching your version of Christianity and then expecting people to agree with you and what you think it means in terms of gay marriage, and avoiding anything that you don't want to hear.

 

[Punisher]

I've heard all this bollocks too many times. Go onto a Christian forum (with people who have more knowledge on the subject) and try it with them. This forum is for Lonely people, not for Atheists trolling with *****.

From all I can tell you're on here preaching your version of Christianity and then expecting people to agree with you and what you think it means in terms of gay marriage, and avoiding anything that you don't want to hear.

It's not my version, it's how it was written, and i don't care if anyone agrees or not. It's not the religion that's the problem, it's some of the people.

 

[Jack Kerouac]

It's not my version, it's how it was written, and i don't care if anyone agrees or not. It's not the religion that's the problem, it's some of the people.

Except that's not how it was written- the overwhelming majority of the Bible is not direct quotations attributed to Jesus, and nowhere does this Jesus say that all his teachings are in his quotes in the Bible you currently have, or that they were translated correctly. You are the one making that up and convincing yourself it is so.

So if you want to know the Christian stance on gay marriage, you have to look at it from all kinds of angles, and it's going to be up for debate, since there are tons of Christians religions, and none of them can prove they are the "correct" one.

But as I said, what the Christian stance of gay marriage is shouldn't be the important point in the first place. Even if Jesus straight up said "gay marriage is wrong", that in no way means we should have laws against it.

 

[Punisher]

It's not my version, it's how it was written, and i don't care if anyone agrees or not. It's not the religion that's the problem, it's some of the people.

Except that's not how it was written- the overwhelming majority of the Bible is not direct quotations attributed to Jesus, and nowhere does this Jesus say that all his teachings are in his quotes in the Bible you currently have, or that they were translated correctly. You are the one making that up and convincing yourself it is so.

So if you want to know the Christian stance on gay marriage, you have to look at it from all kinds of angles, and it's going to be up for debate, since there are tons of Christians religions, and none of them can prove they are the "correct" one.

But as I said, what the Christian stance of gay marriage is shouldn't be the important point in the first place. Even if Jesus straight up said "gay marriage is wrong", that in no way means we should have laws against it.

So you're are trying to say i should join the few American Christians and judge homosexuals? I know it's wrong to judge, but you are arguing over the fact that i see the bible for how it is (or should be) - Peaceful, non judgmental, about love and not war, etc. :S It's getting annoying, and it's so tempting to join them and have BS thrown at me, but for an actual reason.

And the laws have nothing to do with Christianity, it was apposed with votes by Americans, not Jesus.