38 male virgin - Pros and Cons of paying for sex

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I should have stated that I believe BOTH the physical and emotional to be base instincts.
Again, just IMO. I am not an expert.
But I think we NEED to be needed by a female.
It's just something hard wired into our DNA.

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there is some chemical, evolutionary biology explanation for our emotions.

I just personally choose to believe it's also something else, at the same time.
Even with my friends, I don't think it's just the evolutionary instinct to have friends to survive. I feel like it's more meaningful than just an accident of chemistry.

I guess that is something I have blind faith in, after all.
 
I don't have the emotional part.
Yes, it is most likely of my own doing based on my "pickiness" and personality traits.
But the emotional part is just as important. Maybe more.

It's not just about the women you want, it's also about the fact that you gave up. I know plenty of women that ONLY date older guys. Hell, my own grandparents were 18 years apart in age. I have a cousin who had a relationship with close to a 30 year age difference. You just have to understand that when you want something THAT specific, it might take a while to find.
 
It's not just about the women you want, it's also about the fact that you gave up. I know plenty of women that ONLY date older guys. Hell, my own grandparents were 18 years apart in age. I have a cousin who had a relationship with close to a 30 year age difference. You just have to understand that when you want something THAT specific, it might take a while to find.
I can admit this. You are right.
Yes I gave up at 19 and never tried after that.
I can give many explanations why (bad childhood, excluded by peers, uninvolved parents, no mentors, etc..).
But yeah, I suppose many guys had it way worse than me and they found a way.
So ultimately, yes it is on me.
 
Sex is closer to friendship than hard drug use.

Funny how you two feel so sure about that yet you never did it yourselves, or at least that seems to be the case. Even disregarding all arguments in this discussion, this alone is extremely suggestive. Yes, this is an ad hominem, but it's a reasonable one. You can hardly know what sex is if you haven't ever done it.

I've avoided drugs all my life. Now I'm starting to regret it. Not just for the possible sex, but for some feeling of ecstasy that's eluded me.

You're right in feeling like that, you have to experience them to know how bad they are, to know what they truly are. I know these words are empty without the personal experience to back them up, but trust me, you didn't miss much.
 
Funny how you two feel so sure about that yet you never did it yourselves, or at least that seems to be the case.
I've done hard drugs when I was young.
The hardest.
Crack and Angel Dust.
And yes...with prostitutes.
Did nothing for me.
I suppose I should be thankful I never became an addict.
 
I've done hard drugs when I was young.
The hardest.
Crack and Angel Dust.
And yes...with prostitutes.
Did nothing for me.
I suppose I should be thankful I never became an addict.

I mentioned I once dated a girl who started prostituting herself, the main reason was that she wanted money to buy drugs. She was already receiving a small monthly sum as payment for working in her father's business, but apparently that wasn't enough. She also hoped that she could move out and live by herself that way. She said she wasn't addicted, and it never seemed to me that she was, but, even then, you don't have to be addicted for drugs to start making you do bad things. See how it's always the whole package? bad experiences growing up, terrible relationship with her family, particularly her parents, partying hard, drug use and so on. One thing leads to the other and boom! in the blink of an eye, a whole life destroyed. This is why self-control is important. This is why reason is, as the ancients have taught us, the highest, more noble part of the soul, and this is why it should remain in control over the most determining aspects of our lives.
 
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Funny how you two feel so sure about that yet you never did it yourselves, or at least that seems to be the case. Even disregarding all arguments in this discussion, this alone is extremely suggestive. Yes, this is an ad hominem, but it's a reasonable one. You can hardly know what sex is if you haven't ever done it.

Sex is seen as a generally good thing though, across most peoples and cultures, and across time.

Something like shooting up heroin, is not. In fact it's almost universally reviled.

I don't know dude. If you don't care about getting a relationship, that's fine. But a lot of people do - more do, than don't, in fact. So it's fair to say that no one should be faulted for wanting this, or for not wanting to give up on it, and take up philosophy instead.

I'm not even sure what we're arguing here.

I'm not saying that a philosophical life absolutely sucks for everyone. Maybe it's exactly what some want.
I just know that it's not the answer for me, though.
 
Something something Christianity, Islam, more than half of Earth's population something.
The two religions you mentioned specifically state "be fruitful and multiply".
Can't do that without a lot of sex.

Oddly enough, it is the "atheist secular humanist" types that decry having babies (at least if you are a 1st Worlder), but still are considered the ones that are supportive of human sexuality.
 
The two religions you mentioned specifically state "be fruitful and multiply".
Can't do that without a lot of sex.

Yet you can be sure that if you could, sex would most likely have been completely proscribed, at least by the Catholic Church. Remember that it's already proscribed if you're a nun or a monk, it takes only a step to forbid it to the common populace as well, the only thing that has always prevented it is that it would have been absurd to do so. However, the early Christian tendency was, without a shadow of a doubt, one of stigmatizing sex and condemning it to the deep, quiet recesses of the home.
 
I just mean, the physical side is base instinct. But the emotional side, I would say is beyond it.
The physical side is just wanting a hot woman. The emotional side is the feelings part, having someone you care for. That's what I mean.

At some point I realized that being with someone I cared about, was more important to me than just
"getting" a hotter woman than the dudebros did, and "beating" them.

But other than that, I totally agree. Being denied, shut out of that is devastating (and for me, gravely insulting/humiliating - it's like calling me inferior, once again, in a profound, fundamental way that I can't change - I hate it). And that's why I have to get out, because to me, none of those things you listed there would fill the void for me. The genie can't go back in the bottle.

I wouldn't find the philosophy/Newton/Tesla route satisfying either.
Not even if I was granted the ability to be good at whatever I wanted.
The only thing I would think could numb me to it is hard drugs, but I haven't tried them, don't want to, and hope it doesn't come down to that.
The emotional side is also instinctual. That goes for friendships too. We're programmed to form bonds and feel anxious without that. Being isolated from the group would have been a death sentence. Happily alone isn't our default state
 
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I am oficially 38 today.

Few updates:

Still technically a virgin. Couldn't bring myself to pay for it. I once emailed a (famous) psychologist and told her my story and asked for advice; she said there are worse things than being a a virgin man - I wonder what are those worse things.

Other reason is that in the past 6 months I went on a couple of dates that gave me hope. The first girl - despite going to a concert which I've enjoyed and then the coversation going smoothly for a first date - kind of ghosted me. She woulnd't answer my texts for hours or days - crickets chirping. And I could've sworn a second date was on the cards. She was also overweight but that didn't bother me much. Then I've read this ghosting thing is pretty common in our days...it's very sad.

The second girl I dated a week ago. Friend of a friend from my brother's circle. Pretty much the same scenario. Although she is far more prompt in asnwering texts. And we have more in common. But she seems kind of lifeless, lacks enthusiasm. Works in back office for a bank, what do you expect. We'll see how it goes. Not much sparks flying around though. I'm so tired of rejection as well that I don't even feel like asking her for a second date.


And a bit of ranting:

I was reading the other day that OnlyFans is doing very well, showing nearly 7 billions in profit. How sad is that. So many lonely men paying to watch that pornographic content. Not to mention so many women earning their income this way because why be a teacher or something useful to society, when you can make an easy buck in front of a camera. And that's how the whole fabric of society changes.
 
I am oficially 38 today.

Few updates:

Still technically a virgin. Couldn't bring myself to pay for it. I once emailed a (famous) psychologist and told her my story and asked for advice; she said there are worse things than being a a virgin man - I wonder what are those worse things.

Other reason is that in the past 6 months I went on a couple of dates that gave me hope. The first girl - despite going to a concert which I've enjoyed and then the coversation going smoothly for a first date - kind of ghosted me. She woulnd't answer my texts for hours or days - crickets chirping. And I could've sworn a second date was on the cards. She was also overweight but that didn't bother me much. Then I've read this ghosting thing is pretty common in our days...it's very sad.

The second girl I dated a week ago. Friend of a friend from my brother's circle. Pretty much the same scenario. Although she is far more prompt in asnwering texts. And we have more in common. But she seems kind of lifeless, lacks enthusiasm. Works in back office for a bank, what do you expect. We'll see how it goes. Not much sparks flying around though. I'm so tired of rejection as well that I don't even feel like asking her for a second date.


And a bit of ranting:

I was reading the other day that OnlyFans is doing very well, showing nearly 7 billions in profit. How sad is that. So many lonely men paying to watch that pornographic content. Not to mention so many women earning their income this way because why be a teacher or something useful to society, when you can make an easy buck in front of a camera. And that's how the whole fabric of society changes.

Sounds like a sh*tty psychologist.
"Hey, I have this problem that's really negatively affecting my quality of life."
"Uhh...I don't know...blah blah useless platitudes."

You have to wonder how they got famous, with that useless cop-out they tried to pass off as "advice".

The OnlyFans thing, all I can think of is, people feel like being useful to society, is being a sucker, when you can work for yourself making more money as a dopamine dealer, a pleasure dealer. It's just like drug dealers, the same concept. There used to be shame in doing that, but that's gone now, thanks to a combination of permissive attitudes and changing cultural values/norms, and hyper-individualism, which says "got mine, that's all that matters, f you". It doesn't matter to them how they "got mine", only that they have it, because everyone else is grabbing after theirs. When enough people think like that, cultural values about what used to be shameful, go out the window.

I think it's all symptoms of the same hyper-individualism disease that seems to be plaguing culture in general, everything from the corporate world, to art and entertainment, to relationships, to increasing crime and casual rudeness/erratic behavior. Everything is all about getting the most for yourself, with no restraint and no desire to do things for their own sake instead of a profit/status motive.

In the corporate world, it comes out in focusing on rent-seeking and short-term profits over everything instead of rewarding employee and customer loyalty and creating better products out of pride. It's the way they take things that used to be free, and jam-pack them with ads to make the free version sh*ttier, so that they can offer a paid premium version. Or the way that instead of just buying things once, now more things a subscription that you pay for indefinitely. Profits increase, but products, services, and customer experiences get worse.

In the art world, it's everything from formulaic music that talks about how much money and sex they get, and formulaic movies that are safe bets to profit rather than taking a chance on something new.

In relationships, it's all about getting the strongest, richest man, and the hottest woman. It's all about "high value" mates, and if you aren't "high value" a person can go to hell. It used to be that only the shallowest people thought like this but it seems to have spread. It's not about making emotional connections anymore, outside of witty banter/sarcasm which involves asserting dominance over someone or something by mocking them.

And the behavior, there's been increasing rudeness and hostility from customers in places like restaurants and planes. The customers themselves are behaving in a hyper-individualistic way, because they don't care about making a scene, they only care about getting their way. This could go back to businesses allowing it, because they prioritize short-term profit over the quality of life for their staff and other customers, again out of hyper-individualism.

It's affecting every facet of our lives.
I'm not saying EVERYONE does this, there are still good genuine people out there.
But all of this behavior has been on the increase.

Sorry for the rant, but the "fabric of society" thing got me thinking.
Relationships are just one area of life that's been affected by this.
The fabric of society isn't changing because some women decided that they can make more money making porn instead of being teachers. It's deeper than that, but the fact that these women think that, is a sign of a deeper problem.
Like I said, it's a symptom, not the disease itself.
If people are wondering what happened to the world or to culture, or where "normal" or "decent" went, this would be my guess. Hyper-individualism ruined it.
 
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Sounds like a sh*tty psychologist.
"Hey, I have this problem that's really negatively affecting my quality of life."
"Uhh...I don't know...blah blah useless platitudes."
Her name is Kelli Palfy -not famous, but well known - and I wrote to her about my issues because she is one of the very few specialists around on male sexual abuse.
 
I am oficially 38 today.
Happy birthday!


I once emailed a (famous) psychologist and told her my story and asked for advice; she said there are worse things than being a a virgin man - I wonder what are those worse things
You really can't think of ANYTHING worse?

Is that all she said? I can't imagine that was all of it. Though, I don't feel it's useless advice. It basically means to focus on the good things.

The second girl I dated a week ago. Friend of a friend from my brother's circle. Pretty much the same scenario. Although she is far more prompt in asnwering texts. And we have more in common. But she seems kind of lifeless, lacks enthusiasm. Works in back office for a bank, what do you expect. We'll see how it goes. Not much sparks flying around though. I'm so tired of rejection as well that I don't even feel like asking her for a second date
Maybe she takes a minute to warm up to a guy. Sparks don't always fly instantly. No risk, no reward. I would give a second date a little more thought.


So many lonely men paying to watch that pornographic content.
I would guess quite a few of those "lonely" men are cheating on their significant others ....


Not to mention so many women earning their income this way because why be a teacher or something useful to society, when you can make an easy buck in front of a camera.
Okay, wait a second. You are aware that teachers don't get paid well right? A lot of teachers struggle to pay their bills. Especially in today's world with prices going up for everything. That's not a fair judgment to make because you don't know the story about why they are there. I know a lot of teachers who have left teaching because while they live the job, it doesn't pay ****. Those I know didn't go to onlyfans, though.
 
You are aware that teachers don't get paid well right? A lot of teachers struggle to pay their bills.
Couple of things.
1. He's in Europe and I believe in certain western European countries they are paid relatively well and have fantastic benefits.
2. In my county (NYC inner suburbs) almost all towns pay tenured public school teachers over $100K. My cousin works in the most impoverished and crime ridden town in my county and she's been over $100K for at least 20 years. Her 3 kids are all teachers (in the late 20s), are not tenured yet, and they all make over $75K -- soon to be over $100K.

So it really depends where you teach public school. Location, location, location.

BTW, the taxes here are obscenely high.
I think my county may be the worst in the entire US for taxes...


EDIT:
I know what my cousin and her kids make because NY State is required to post all salaries of public employees. I can look it up on the NY State web site.
 
Couple of things.
1. He's in Europe and I believe in certain western European countries they are paid relatively well and have fantastic benefits.
2. In my county (NYC inner suburbs) almost all towns pay tenured public school teachers over $100K. My cousin works in the most impoverished and crime ridden town in my county and she's been over $100K for at least 20 years. Her 3 kids are all teachers (in the late 20s), are not tenured yet, and they all make over $75K -- soon to be over $100K.

So it really depends where you teach public school. Location, location, location.

BTW, the taxes here are obscenely high.
I think my county may be the worst in the entire US for taxes...


EDIT:
I know what my cousin and her kids make because NY State is required to post all salaries of public employees. I can look it up on the NY State web site.
Holy crap. Teachers where I live make around $30k.

But, my point kind of still stands. Yes, you do have these people going to OnlyFans, but if they live somewhere like where I live, they don't really have much of a choice. Also, cost of living is way higher in NYC than it is where I live in a rural area, so the pay will be higher there just in general.

There are teachers out there that don't really care about the kids, but I would say most do. Probably more at the elementary level than the high school level. Most teachers where I live have two jobs to make ends meet, what's the difference if your second job is Walmart or OnlyFans. OnlyFans pays better. Until the school finds out and you get fired, of course.
 

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