Lack of respect between the sexes

[Tealeaf]

If you are offering "favors" to get romantic/sexual attention in return, then you are a horrible person. Full stop. If you whine about it on the internet or unironically discuss the "friend zone" then you are a horrible person.

My reading comprehension skills are top-notch and I DID read the part about the "despite knowing that it's a display of romantic intention." How would that happen exactly? What is this hypothetical situation you envision where the woman KNOWS what the guy is thinking? Is he upfront? I'm imagining that a fellow just approaches a lady and says "I would like to take you out to dinner so that I can have sex with you later" and then she just takes the dinner and leaves. Frankly he deserves it. Are they going on a date and she decides she's not interested, and then she's "disrespectful" if he paid for dinner? People aren't vending machines where sex and love pour out after you put "favors" in. I read everything fine, it was perfectly clear. Where have I heard this line of reasoning before? Oh right, high school dudebros and adult misogynists.

The only thing I misinterpreted was the accusation that I'm a troll. Which I'm not.

It's a sad world that you live in and I feel sorry for you! But I admire your apparent mind-reading capabilities.

Also, Sci-Fi, I'm not defending your friends in this instance, but given what I've seen with all the "nice guys" on this message board (and Nice Guy defenders like the OP), a lot of ladies are wary of friendly behavior because apparently it means that angry dudes will whine about us on the internet for not having sex with them. Or, murder us. Whatever.

Most people have a little something called "social intuition". It's not flawless mind-reading, but they can tell what someone is thinking and feeling to an extent through their tone, body language, and context even if it's not something they're saying out loud. That means that sometimes women can tell that a man is interested even when he doesn't say so, and she could safely assume that if he's going out of his way for her that it's a way to try to get noticed or show off.

I just think that regardless of anyone's opinion on wah, wah, wah he deserves it! it's wrong to keep accepting. Thinking that someone is doing something wrong doesn't mean you should extract from them to your heart's content.

That's the only response I'm giving to someone like you, just in case someone confused but without an attitude comes along. Don't bother with more unless it's to someone else.

I suppose it depends what the favour/gift is. Each scenario could be different. If these favours or gifts are small things that people should be generally doing for each other anyway (holding doors open, offering a helping hand when someone is struggling blah blah) then it's fine to accept them, regardless of the other person's feelings/intentions. Small gifts too I guess. But there will come a point where I think it's this woman's responsibility to say "no, that's enough". In a perfect world she wouldn't have to but some people don't know when to stop.

I think of the guy in this scenario as a "nice guy". Maybe he is doing her favours and buying her things to win her over romantically, but not for the sole purpose of getting laid. That was my interpretation of it anyway.
I just think this topic was too closely related to it, and wouldn't be surprised if in the end it evolved to be about these things.

That's all I'm saying: that women shouldn't keep taking things from men in that scenario, let alone make excuses for why it's okay. Taking a misguided approach to romancing someone doesn't suddenly make them not a person, and his intentions could be pristine.

 

[raincloud]

Okay, I do apologize for being somewhat rude in my last post. I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong, that's perfectly fine. Still, though, I wouldn't want to know the men you know!

But, still, your whole argument is that he's treating someone like a prostitute and she isn't holding up her end of the bargain, even though the arrangement occurred entirely in the man's head.

Good lord, this makes me never want to talk another man again.

 

[painter's radio]

For ****'s sake sex is overrated and relationships are stupid. Men are stupid and women are stupid. Everyone is stupid and annoying. But quite loveable!

I am a nice guy and also a not nice guy. Nice if you are a nice person but not nice if you are not nice. A ******* chimp could see the benefits and logic in thinking like this. What is wrong with people. Eww I don't want to smash slimey genitals with you because I enjoyed doing something to make you happy. I don't care what's in your pants, if you are happy then I'm happy, and if I contributed to that happiness then yay! Unless you're annoyingly happy and gloating about it, then I want to stab you.

Good people should be given gifts and treated nicely. Bad people should be thrown into a pit of spikes.

Good lord, this makes me never want to talk another man again.

Talk to me if you like, I will tell you now I don't want to have sex with you. No offense

 

[raincloud]

For ****'s sake sex is overrated and relationships are stupid. Men are stupid and women are stupid. Everyone is stupid and annoying. But quite loveable!

I am a nice guy and also a not nice guy. Nice if you are a nice person but not nice if you are not nice. A ******* chimp could see the benefits and logic in thinking like this. What is wrong with people. Eww I don't want to smash slimey genitals with you because I enjoyed doing something to make you happy. I don't care what's in your pants, if you are happy then I'm happy, and if I contributed to that happiness then yay! Unless you're annoyingly happy and gloating about it, then I want to stab you.

Good people should be given gifts and treated nicely. Bad people should be thrown into a pit of spikes.

Good lord, this makes me never want to talk another man again.

Talk to me if you like, I will tell you now I don't want to have sex with you. No offense

Don't ever address me again.

 

[painter's radio]

Christ.

 

[PieBeNice]

Bad people should be thrown into a pit of spikes.

But I don't like spikes.

 

[painter's radio]

Bad people should be thrown into a pit of spikes.

But I don't like spikes.

Then be more nice, PieBeNice! Or it's into the pit of spikes you go. With no pies.

 

[PieBeNice]

Bad people should be thrown into a pit of spikes.

But I don't like spikes.

Then be more nice, PieBeNice! Or it's into the pit of spikes you go. With no pies.

Don't ever address me again.

 

[painter's radio]

Don't ever undress me again.

But I bought you a cheeseburger

 

[Nicolelt]

If you are offering "favors" to get romantic/sexual attention in return, then you are a horrible person. Full stop. If you whine about it on the internet or unironically discuss the "friend zone" then you are a horrible person.

What the **** is wrong with the friend zone? Why are we horrible for discussing it?


Guess I'm horrible.

And this thread has turned into a crock of ****.

---

Don't ever undress me again.

But I bought you a cheeseburger

Pie, you should reconsider!

 

[PieBeNice]

If you are offering "favors" to get romantic/sexual attention in return, then you are a horrible person. Full stop. If you whine about it on the internet or unironically discuss the "friend zone" then you are a horrible person.

What the **** is wrong with the friend zone? Why are we horrible for discussing it?


Guess I'm horrible.

And this thread has turned into a crock of ****.

Only because you're here.

 

[painter's radio]

Guess I'm horrible.

Into the pit of spikes you go :club:

 

[Nicolelt]

Guess I'm horrible.

Into the pit of spikes you go :club:

I built the pit of spikes!

 

[raincloud]

What's wrong with the friend zone? I can't tell what your perspective is so I'm not making judgments, but first of all, IT ISN'T A THING. "Friend zone" means "Oh, I wanted to have sex with this person who didn't want to have sex with me and I AM ENTITLED TO THIS SO WHAAAAA I GOT PUT IN THE FRIEND ZONE". No one owes anyone else sex or romance because you were SO NICE to them. I'm sure women talk about it, too, but it's usually misogynistic "nice guy" crap.

Wow, I'm feeling a lot better about myself now because I'm socially isolated mostly by choice and life circumstances. Perhaps people are "lonely" here because of a sense of entitlement that sensible folk don't want anything to do with. No, but seriously, if you talk about "the friend zone" unironically with any kind of educated or intelligent group, they will laugh at you for being a tool.

You guys need to take a class or something OH MY GOD, I'm talking to aliens.

 

[PieBeNice]

What's wrong with the friend zone? I can't tell what your perspective is so I'm not making judgments, but first of all, IT ISN'T A THING. "Friend zone" means "Oh, I wanted to have sex with this person who didn't want to have sex with me and I AM ENTITLED TO THIS SO WHAAAAA I GOT PUT IN THE FRIEND ZONE". No one owes anyone else sex or romance because you were SO NICE to them. I'm sure women talk about it, too, but it's usually misogynistic "nice guy" crap.

Wow, I'm feeling a lot better about myself now because I'm socially isolated mostly by choice and life circumstances. Perhaps people are "lonely" here because of a sense of entitlement that sensible folk don't want anything to do with. No, but seriously, if you talk about "the friend zone" unironically with any kind of educated or intelligent group, they will laugh at you for being a tool.

You guys need to take a class or something OH MY GOD, I'm talking to aliens.

*eats popcorn*

This thread's about to get interesting.

 

[Nicolelt]

What's wrong with the friend zone? I can't tell what your perspective is so I'm not making judgments, but first of all, IT ISN'T A THING. "Friend zone" means "Oh, I wanted to have sex with this person who didn't want to have sex with me and I AM ENTITLED TO THIS SO WHAAAAA I GOT PUT IN THE FRIEND ZONE". No one owes anyone else sex or romance because you were SO NICE to them. I'm sure women talk about it, too, but it's usually misogynistic "nice guy" crap.

So wait a minute, are you telling me you never had FEELINGS for someone and they just wanted to be friends? Because I can tell you from experience, that I had FEELINGS for a guy (not sex) and he didn't want to date me. So, I was in the friend zone. Pretty sure that is the definition of that fictional place in emotions.

Wow, I'm feeling a lot better about myself now because I'm socially isolated mostly by choice and life circumstances. Perhaps people are "lonely" here because of a sense of entitlement that sensible folk don't want anything to do with. No, but seriously, if you talk about "the friend zone" unironically with any kind of educated or intelligent group, they will laugh at you for being a tool.

Oh yes, I have so much entitlement.....I am pretty freakin' awesome if you ask me. And, I am educated, and pretty damn intelligent too.

---

*eats popcorn*

This thread's about to get interesting.

 

[raincloud]

What's wrong with the friend zone? I can't tell what your perspective is so I'm not making judgments, but first of all, IT ISN'T A THING. "Friend zone" means "Oh, I wanted to have sex with this person who didn't want to have sex with me and I AM ENTITLED TO THIS SO WHAAAAA I GOT PUT IN THE FRIEND ZONE". No one owes anyone else sex or romance because you were SO NICE to them. I'm sure women talk about it, too, but it's usually misogynistic "nice guy" crap.

So wait a minute, are you telling me you never had FEELINGS for someone and they just wanted to be friends? Because I can tell you from experience, that I had FEELINGS for a guy (not sex) and he didn't want to date me. So, I was in the friend zone. Pretty sure that is the definition of that fictional place in emotions.

Wow, I'm feeling a lot better about myself now because I'm socially isolated mostly by choice and life circumstances. Perhaps people are "lonely" here because of a sense of entitlement that sensible folk don't want anything to do with. No, but seriously, if you talk about "the friend zone" unironically with any kind of educated or intelligent group, they will laugh at you for being a tool.

Oh yes, I have so much entitlement.....I am pretty freakin' awesome if you ask me. And, I am educated, and pretty damn intelligent too.

---

*eats popcorn*

This thread's about to get interesting.

---

Um, we're using different definitions of the term "friend zone". I'm using the actual, common definition and you're confused.

What you are talking about is unrequited attraction. I'm pretty sure that everyone has experienced that. If you look up "friend zone" in oh ANY context on the internet, it generally involves a man who is attracted to a woman who only wants to be friends, but he uses the term "friend zone" to vilify her. That's the term "She put me in the friend zone!"

I was going to come up with some recommended reading for you, but there was so much out there that I'm just gonna Google it for you.. I know that you're so "educated" but maybe you might learn something.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Ask any of these people if they'd be okay with someone treating their mother, father, brother, sister, niece, or nephew this way and they'll say no. When it comes to dating, though, the human aspect can happily be removed and all that's left is the object ready to have value extracted from it.

In many cases I see of plain disrespect, the person doesn't respect their own mother or father, or anyone in their family. So, it means nothing to them to disrespect the person they're dating, or even those they aren't dating.

 

[painter's radio]

So wait a minute, are you telling me you never had FEELINGS for someone and they just wanted to be friends? Because I can tell you from experience, that I had FEELINGS for a guy (not sex) and he didn't want to date me. So, I was in the friend zone. Pretty sure that is the definition of that fictional place in emotions.

Yeah not long ago a girl told me her feelings for me and I said no, I just wanted to be friends. Genuinely, too. She's really cool but I don't feel the spark. She herself referred to it as me "friendzoning" her. But hey I guess she's a silly uneducated misogynyst, or something.

Getting so irate about the term is a very suspicious character trait in my opinion, and often tells a lot more about the person flipping tables about it than the people who use the term without bitterness.

 

[PieBeNice]

I'm using the actual, common definition and you're confused.

No such thing as the actual definition of a word in the English language.