Lets see the Faces!!!

[Lacrecia]

Show pic or gtfo

 

[mgill]

i would like to thank everyone for their very kind words & suggestions.  i can assure you though that your thoughts on my appearance have not been born out by my attempts at dating.  to summarize, despite numerous attemps (i lost count so don't have a good figure), i have not been on a single date in around 8 years.  i have tried OLD multiple times and did not receive a single reply to my messages or receive a single message from anyone. i have only approached women i thought were on my own looks level or below yet still zilch.

my opinion on my lack of attractiveness could indeed be considered fallacious if i had any level of success with women but i have not.  while as i said i do greatly appreciate all of the positive affermations from the members of this board, i have zero practicle evidence to the contrary that my lack of physical attractiveness is not the sole cause of my failures & rejections. perhaps  if i were getting first dates & then getting ghosted it may indicate a lack of social skills or a personality defect which could be worked on & improved.

i have little doubt that my experience would have been far different & much better if i were of average height (5'9-5'10) and had the hair i was born with.  my hair was thick, black & curly (i am of itailian decent) and i often received compliments on it-in fact it was actually the only thing i was ever complimented on appearance wise- so i was devastated when i started losing it.  i am somewhat fortunate that my head is a decent shape for being shaved but having hair is far superior looks wise to even the best shaved head.  i agree that i have no sense of fashion or interest in it.  i tried contact lenses but could not stand them.  i looked into lasik but since i am both near & far sighted and they can only fix one & i would still need glasses.

i think ardour has hit the nail on the head as far as his last comment.  the bottom line is that even if my face is OK (which i would still not agree with), it is not good enough to make up for my lack of height & hair.  women are simply not going to settle for a man like me when they have so many tall, better looking men with good hair who they have options with.  if there are any out there who would do so, i have never met them.

 

[ardour]

This is going to sound like extremely tired advice, but you could try building up a bit a muscle to appear more masculine and compensate for being shorter, changing your style up a bit, and giving the contact lenses another go (I wear them and yes it's uncomfortable at first).

 

[4No1]

Your face is completely OK. I can accept you're not tall(at least compare to an average man as you're still taller than me so for me your heigth is normal), but it shouldn't be such a big deal.

I'm sorry but maybe you shouldn't read this researches about wonen's preferences as probably they have a bad influence. You're completely OK, and it's very very strange if all the women
around you think differenetly. Do you have any female-friends or colleagues? How do you communicate with them? I think there should be the normal women, quest is to meet them, yeah, it's easy to say.

 

[mgill]

This is going to sound like extremely tired advice, but you could try building up a bit a muscle to appear more masculine and compensate for being shorter, changing your style up a bit, and giving the contact lenses another go (I wear them and yes it's uncomfortable at first).

not extreme advice at all really and i appreciate the suggestions. i was in great shape when the photo was taken and am now quite ripped (150 lbs at around 10% BF) as i have been doing intense weight training for decades. i'm currently pretty close to my natural physical limits without resorting to drugs as i have a very high metabolism so gaining weight-muscle or fat-is very difficult.

i just don't get the style thing as most of it seems to be based on what's being considered as fashionable at the time and this changes regularly.  i am quite sensitive about things in my eyes so when i did try them before it took me about 40 minutes every morning to get them in-and this was after doing it for a few weeks.  i think most of the masculine features women are attracted to correspond to height & face so cannot be improved by superficial means.

---

Your face is completely OK. I can accept you're not tall(at least compare to an average man as you're still taller than me so for me your heigth is normal), but it shouldn't be such a big deal.

I'm sorry but maybe you shouldn't read this researches about wonen's preferences as probably they have a bad influence. You're completely OK, and it's very very strange if all the women
around you think differenetly.  Do you have any female-friends or colleagues? How do you communicate with them? I think there should be the normal women, quest is to meet them, yeah, it's easy to say.

the issue is that OK is not good enough for most women as thye are looking for the top 20% of men.  as opposed to the tired, old 1-10 scale so often used, IRL attraction is a binary issue so either a guy is hot or he is not.  i agree that a man's height should not be a big deal but in the US it is by far the most critical factor for women-at least the one's i have interacted with.  i think due to cultural & societal norms it is very difficult for women to find a short man to be masculine.

as you suggested i probably should not be reading studies studies as the just serve to reinforce what i have experienced personally. i have many female friends and we get along great.  it's only when i show interest which is more than platonic that i have an issue. imo, the fact that i have been friend zoned so often points to factors other than my personality or lack of social skills as the cause of the rejection.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Seriously, dude. You need to stop looking at ******** studies that look at a few women and start looking for the people that will accept you as you are. All you are doing is ensuring that no one will want you because you can't get over your own ****. 5'6 is, again, NOT that short. You look good bald. Get over yourself, because the only thing you are doing is sabotaging YOURSELF. Stop blaming others and start changing your damn attitude.
**** the studies, **** the shallow *******, find the ones that aren't shallow and stop trying so damn hard to find excuses to not even try.

 

[mgill]

Seriously, dude.  You need to stop looking at ******** studies that look at a few women and start looking for the people that will accept you as you are.  All you are doing is ensuring that no one will want you because you can't get over your own ****.  5'6 is, again, NOT that short.  You look good bald.  Get over yourself, because the only thing you are doing is sabotaging YOURSELF.  Stop blaming others and start changing your damn attitude. 
**** the studies, **** the shallow *******, find the ones that aren't shallow and stop trying so damn hard to find excuses to not even try.

oh, i freely admit that this is an unhealthy habit that i need to stop doing ASAP. i don't even indudge in it too much except when i am feeling really down-which seems to be often these days.

i would not say i am blaming anyone per say either-i'm just very bitter about my physical appearance and my inability to improve it and also envious of the men who do have good genetics as i see them on an almost daily basis at the gym.  on the few occasions that i am feeling good about myself (most of the time because of my fitness progress), all it takes is to see a tall, good looking guy at the gym who is also ripped and then i recall why i am where i am as far as dating.

to tell the truth i technically have not given up completely but i would not be able to express interest unless i was 110% certain that she was actually interested in me also. the plethora of past rejections have done a number on my confidence level to say the least- of course, there were several cases in the past where i was very certain and they all ended up as total failures anyway.  this is really what started me down the path i am on now.  asking out a person you just met and having nothing come of it is one thing but having (what i thought) were great times with a person i know and still having the same results is quite another. there were even a few cases where the women told me she was not looking for a relationship at the moment only to find out that a few months later she was dating someone else. if that is not solid evidence then i really don't know what is.

 

[ardour]

If you're under 35 then you're only harming yourself with all this 'top 20%' stuff (obviously more than 20% of men manage). Rejection is the norm for most guys. It's not hard to dress better. Buy a few shirts vaguely trendy store in colour that suits. Make they aren't too big/are form fitting to show off the physique. Get friends to help if you need it.

 

[Abstamyous]

there were even a few cases where the women told me she was not looking for a relationship at the moment only to find out that a few months later she was dating someone else. if that is not solid evidence then i really don't know what is.

I mean this with all the well intentions in the world. What someone does after their time with you has ended, is their business. It's not for you to take personally or use as evidence of cards stacked against you.

You said this, which I found interesting, "to tell the truth i technically have not given up completely but i would not be able to express interest unless i was 110% certain that she was actually interested in me also."

I wonder what the process of proving interest to you entails?

 

[mgill]

If you're under 35 then you're only harming  yourself with all this 'top 20%' stuff (obviously more than 20% of men manage). Rejection is the norm for most guys.  It's not hard to dress better. Buy a few shirts vaguely trendy store in colour that suits. Make they aren't  too big/are form fitting to show off the physique. Get friends to help if you need it.

i am well over 35 actually. not sure if that makes things better or worse though.

 

[mgill]

there were even a few cases where the women told me she was not looking for a relationship at the moment only to find out that a few months later she was dating someone else. if that is not solid evidence then i really don't know what is.

I mean this with all the well intentions in the world. What someone does after their time with you has ended, is their business. It's not for you to take personally or use as evidence of cards stacked against you.

You said this, which I found interesting, "to tell the truth i technically have not given up completely but i would not be able to express interest unless i was 110% certain that she was actually interested in me also."

I wonder what the process of proving interest to you entails?

perhaps correct, but this does not make the rejections an easier to accept. i just wish they would have told me the truth that they were simply not attracted to me instread of making up a lame excuse to try and let me down more gently.

once again a very good question.  as i said, i thought i knew in past encounters but i was dead wrong then. it has been so long that a women should be genuine interest that i can no longer even imagine what it's like anymore. aside from romantic intentions i am usually pretty good at reading people-of which i obviously have no clue about.  it seems so easy for some while for others like myself it's like a foreign language which i don't understand a single word of.  the very few times it happened to me in the distant past their intentions were extremely obvious but maybe things changed along the way and i just never caught up. or maybe i was just that much better looking when i was younger & had hair?

 

[TheRealCallie]

there were even a few cases where the women told me she was not looking for a relationship at the moment only to find out that a few months later she was dating someone else. if that is not solid evidence then i really don't know what is.

I mean this with all the well intentions in the world. What someone does after their time with you has ended, is their business. It's not for you to take personally or use as evidence of cards stacked against you.

You said this, which I found interesting, "to tell the truth i technically have not given up completely but i would not be able to express interest unless i was 110% certain that she was actually interested in me also."

I wonder what the process of proving interest to you entails?

perhaps correct, but this does not make the rejections an easier to accept. i just wish they would have told me the truth that they were simply not attracted to me instread of making up a lame excuse to try and let me down more gently.

For all you know she didn't want a relationship then.  **** can change in a matter of days and make someone want a relationship.  Something happened to them, they met their "soulmate," arranged marriage, etc etc.  It could be a million different things that have absolutely nothing to do with you.
I have been attracted to several guys over the last 11 years I've split from my ex.  Guess what, I did NOT want a relationship, so I did not date any of them.   Improving myself and making sure my kids were okay mattered more to me than getting a guy.

Now, my point of all that, you ask?  Get over yourself, it's not always about you. Sometimes, when people (yes, even women) say something, it's the honest truth. 
You can continue to sabotage yourself or you can figure out how to build your confidence and realize that you are very likely doing this to yourself.  You can say you don't blame anyone else all you want, but it's pretty clear that you do, even if you don't realize you are doing it. Stop living in the damn past, it's clearly not helping you and staying there is only making you repeat it. Move forward.

 

[ardour]

Well whatever you do, don't observe what a women you aren't currently in a relationship with does. So creepy!

 

[mgill]

Well whatever you do, don't observe what a women you aren't currently in a relationship with does. So creepy!

you minsunderstood-in both cases we were friends & we ran in the same circles so it's not as if i was stalking them.

 

[ardour]

Well whatever you do, don't observe what a women you aren't currently in a relationship with does. So creepy!

you minsunderstood-in both cases we were friends & we ran in the same circles so it's not as if i was stalking them.

I was joking about something Callie said -  as if observable reality were 'none of your business' and you weren't even allowed your own private thoughts about it.

 

[Invisibleguy]

Well if you're struggling while looking completely fine then I won't even dare to try 

 

[Lacrecia]

This thread has taken a bad turn. Now people wont even show their pictures.

 

[mgill]

Well whatever you do, don't observe what a women you aren't currently in a relationship with does. So creepy!

you minsunderstood-in both cases we were friends & we ran in the same circles so it's not as if i was stalking them.

I was joking about something Callie said -  as if observable reality were 'none of your business' and you weren't even allowed your own private thoughts about it.

got it-my bad & sorry i missed the sarcasm.

---

Well if you're struggling while looking completely fine then I won't even dare to try 

i'm not sure if you are speaking to me or not but even average men (though i do not consider myself as falling into this category) are having tremendous difficulty in the modern dating scene.

 

[Aardra]

Baffling. There are millions of "average-looking" women out there who would be happy to have mgill's attention but like most men who complain about their own inceldom, the entitlement is strong and restrictions self-imposed.

I'm not saying you need to settle or completely decimate your standards, but consider what portion of your difficulties is caused by the intangible phantom of bIoLoGiCaL pSyChOlOgY and what portion is caused by your own inflated expectations of women. If you think you're too short and average-looking, then go out and find a short, average-looking girl. You have NO IDEA how many lonely women there are out there. Like for real.

 

[ardour]

Baffling. There are millions of "average-looking" women out there who would be happy to have mgill's attention but like most men who complain about their own inceldom, the entitlement is strong and restrictions self-imposed.

I'm not saying you need to settle or completely decimate your standards, but consider what portion of your difficulties is caused by the intangible phantom of bIoLoGiCaL pSyChOlOgY and what portion is caused by your own inflated expectations of women. If you think you're too short and average-looking, then go out and find a short, average-looking girl. You have NO IDEA how many lonely women there are out there. Like for real.

You don't know anything about his standards, who he's approached or how many times he's tried. If there are millions of average women happy to date men like him then why aren't they making themselves known?