Merry Xmas from my girlfriend

[TheSolitaryMan]

All good points. I may come to my senses soon.

Last year I was besotted with this other woman. I sent her text after text and she hardly replied. She played me for a mug, asking me to work overtime in her shop and then saying she would spend time with me (playing golf of all things) - Most of the times we were due to play golf she would be ill or tired or something like that. I worked crazy overtime shifts for her and she used me. I did this for 6 months or so and then it was a switch going off in my head and I stopped. Now I don't bother with her. (She in fact sends texts to me now asking me how I am)

The point is I seem to have a flaw in my character where I cling onto people. The same is happening with this new woman. They may be a time when I suddenly think 'what am I doing here ?'

It hasn't happened yet. I am not planning on having a relationship with her. All she is to me now is a casual friend who I am going to send text messages to every now and again.

I hope that makes sense !

It does

It's quite easy to get swept up emotionally and overlook the cold, hard facts sometimes. I've sort of felt it myself.

I don't know this woman personally of course, but to me...the whole thing just sounds like a bad idea. Even being "friends", I'm not sure I would want a friend who had roughed up my emotions like that in the past.

There are women out there who will be amazing and genuinely loyal friends and possibly even more than that. The key thing is to realise you still have a lot of time and not be desperate for female attention.

While I'm not saying you are desperate, desperation is the worst thing you can fall into in this sort of situation.

It'll make you miss obvious emotional traps and your sense of intuition regarding dishonesty will be warped. From there you're on a one-way ticket to emotional unhappiness and manipulative relationships.

I'm only 20 myself, but for what it's worth, I find the best way to get attention from really kind and genuine girls is just to talk to them like you're not even looking for a relationship and just want a friend.

That usually screens out the manipulative girls who just want to control your feelings, gets rid of any desperation or pressure between the both of you and you'll get to know her better too.

---

Anyway, back specifically to your situation.

I'd suggest you make sure you feel like you can confront this woman before you get too cosy with her again, even as friends.

By confront, I mean don't sit there and just take it when she's trying to make you feel bad or twisting the facts. You need to judge what she's saying, and if you feel or know it to be ********, say so.

It's not bad to stand up to people like that, or rude, or selfish. It's logical and respectable.

Next time she starts telling you she's "disgusted" with your behaviour, for example, tell her to f*** off! She has absolutely zero right to talk to you like that when you've done nothing wrong.

I'd go as far as to say any woman that treated me like that would never hear from me again. Her friendship would be worth nothing - what nerve it takes to turn things around so falsely.

I think if you were harsher in situations like that, you may gain her real respect. It'd be interesting to see if she still wanted to be "friends", once you point out empirically that you feel what she did is wrong.

Feel free of course to ignore what I'm saying here, it's all 100% your choice. I just don't like seeing decent people get hurt and I think you'd be wise to proceed with real caution

 

[putter65]

I'm happy about it as well. First time in 2 weeks. It's my choice now what I do. I may not bother with her. She gave me all that ******** but then said she wants me back.

That suits me and I will decide what to do.

 

[jjam]

Everybody has said the same things, dump her etc.

We'll see what happens. I feel a millions times better today, more like my old self.

I might invite her for a coffee next week and see how that goes. (If she wants to that is)

I just have this feeling that you're a lot like me at heart and you have the right attitude, putter. You're not out of it yet but I believe you'll pass the test as I am 100% certain I did in how I chose to handle my most recent relationship issue. Don't ever let someone's display of poor character corrupt your own. Wrongs don't have to be fought with wrongs. There's so much win-win in choosing the route of forgiveness, it's not even funny. This does not mean be weak. This does not mean mend your heart with the same glass that someone's crappy actions fragmented in the past. But you have the power to be greater, so be greater.

---

Maybe at this point let her make the moves, don't waste too much energy on her "friendship".

From my point of view, there are trust issue with her. You know she's a liar, who says she won't just because you are "friends". It's a behavioural pattern she has. You might enjoy her company but to me there's always that nagging voice wondering if she'd being truthful or greedy. She wants what she wants from you but doesn't seem to want to give as much in return.

If Putter wants to give, he should give. But with that, he needs to set his expectations to 0 on the number line. nothing of positives, nothing of negatives.

Do what you're going to do regardless of what she'll do, putter. It makes you feel good to want to make her feel good. I'm almost certain it DOES make her feel good that you extend your hand to her the way you do. I know the feeling, and it is good. It is good to love even if you're not loved in return. I don't know if I'm quoting some wise man here, but I'm going to try this one. The man who doesn't give love and doesn't receive love has no love in his life, unlike the man who doesn't receive love but gives it.

My WORST days in thinking about someone who I'd felt wronged me were when I called myself building some dark strength to basically give her the middle finger (not physically or through words even, but in my mind/heart). My BEST days were when I knew I didn't want to be this way, felt I couldn't be this way and contemplated ways to make sure I didn't become this way. Shoot. Executing some of those ideas made me even happier (and turned out she liked it too). Am I weak for it? Absolutely not! I don't expect of her. I enjoy extending my hand to her, and that is good enough for me.

People here don't get why you care for her the way you do. Heck, you may not even get it entirely. I'm guessing you see things in her that you admire. You might even see crazy amounts of good in her, as Luke saw in Vader. That in itself is a great story of forgiveness and giving people a chance at redemption. It matters not what you see in her. The positive thing is that you care for someone. If you TRULY do, then don't betray that about yourself.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

For the first time ever, I think I'll have to fundamentally disagree with you jjam!

Giving is good, of course. I'd argue that giving unconditionally is a positive human trait.

However, giving unconditionally to someone who takes unconditionally is tantamount to lunacy. It's self-destructive and typically born out of low confidence.

Through most of my life I've given unconditionally, expected nothing from anyone in return. Now I'm slowly starting to realise that in some circumstances, doing that is foolish and leaves a person wide open to emotional pain.

If it's some guy you see coughing on a street corner, giving unconditionally might be a nice thing to do. Or if someone is struggling with their shopping, or injured or something, helping them out for no reward is a decent action.

However, pouring your efforts and emotions into sustaining someone's happiness when they don't give a rat's butt about you (and are, in fact, enjoying the malicious power they have over you) is not in the same league at all.

I now take a stance that I should be altruistic whenever I can when nothing stands to be taken from me, but when it comes to romantic matters, I should expect equal attention from a girl. To not expect that is to disrespect oneself.

 

[jjam]

"However, giving unconditionally to someone who takes unconditionally is tantamount to lunacy. It's self-destructive and typically born out of low confidence." - TSM

It seems that's what most people would have most people believe.
But look around. See anything fishy with the world?
You did me wrong and will continue to do me wrong, so **** you. That's basically what you're saying. I think of bipolar people who have really flipped the hell out on folks because it's who they are/have become. Should the stronger ones just abandon them?

People aren't equal. We're not all on the same level when it comes to values, but I think those who have a stronger sense of values should use their strength to possibly influence positively. It's not guaranteed to work but I think it absolutely beats opting to leave someone behind because they aren't as (or even nearly) good as you. Spread a germ or spread a cure? Take in the germ or destroy it and show the person who tried to pass you the germ hope? another way of being?


By the way, i don't think this is giving "unconditionally" I'm talking here. This isn't "give everything you have" or all of your money, or love her exclusively or anything like that. It's give love. Give a positive attitude. Give hope. Show a good example of forgiveness. THAT kind of giving can be done, in some fashion, unconditionally.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

Moral values are NOT universal.

A giver requires a receiver.
To withhhold at either end retricts the flow.
Uh
Think of a water pond Is stricted at the in flow
It will run dry.
If its retricted at the out flow..the water will becone stail.

When a person gives you a gift....TAKE IT.
When someone give you a complment...Take it.
Ask yourself this simple question...
Why do you want to LOVE AND BE LOVED.
To give and recieve?
ALLOWING MYSELF TO RECEIVE RENAES LOVE
WAS MY CHALLENGE.
At the sametime...
I MUST BE ABLE TO STAND ON MY OWN
TWO FEET...
BE THE CANDLE OF MY OWN TWO FEET.

YOU CAN'T HURT ME IF I WASNT LEANING ON YOU.
YOU CAN'T MANIPULATE ME UNLESS I WAS WILLING.

---

UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.

SELF ACCEPTANCE.
LOVING MYSELF UNCONDITIONALLY.
FORGIVEN MYSELF FOR MAKING MISTAKES.

Kimi had forgiven me.
She asked of me to please stop carrying the guilt.

Renae had forgiven me..

Its still I that musf come to terms
And forvive myself.

LET GO OF MY GUILT AND SHAME.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

By the way, i don't think this is giving "unconditionally" I'm talking here. This isn't "give everything you have" or all of your money, or love her exclusively or anything like that. It's give love. Give a positive attitude. Give hope. Show a good example of forgiveness. THAT kind of giving can be done, in some fashion, unconditionally.

Oh, well if you mean that last bit, of course I agree.

Taking the moral high ground and being "the bigger person" in these sort of situations is naturally admirable. As is spreading forgiveness and being tolerant.

However, the line blurs sometimes and I think that's what you have to be careful of. Sometimes, people don't deserve redemption or yet another chance! Giving them that extension of kindness all too easily allows them to expose their rotten core again.

I'd say this woman is one of those cases. She has acted in a cold-hearted, devious and malicious manner. She seems to be manipulative and controlling, with a desire to continue to string people along for her own bizarre ends.

Furthermore, she engages in making others feel bad for her own transgressions when she has no right to do so.

Forgive her, yes. But then move on. Forgive and forget, quite literally!

You are right in the sense that there is no point being bitter or nasty about it, but equally there is no point in being so forgiving and naive that she gets to have Round 2 in her mindgames.

There is a big difference between being chivalrous, mature, altruistic, kind and forgiving about things and lining up to take a second sucker punch in the face from someone who doesn't deserve such honesty and goodwill!

"Forgiving" someone and parting with them on good terms is quite possible to do while simultaneously putting your foot down and showing that you're not taking anymore bollocks.

It's not nasty or "low" to stand up and point out when people are being completely immoral/unreasonable, in fact I'd say it's an essential component of being a strong and decent person.

A good heart with flimsy intentions is open to abuse from those who don't play by the rules.

(Did I wander there? Not sure. I hope I made my point a little less vague though...)

 

[Lonesome Crow]

CHECK YOUR MOTIVES...

IF YOU GIVE SOMEONE A GIFT AND EXPECTING
SOMETHING IN RETURN...
ARE YOU NOT TRYING TO MANIPULATE THAT
PERSON MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY...
WHETHER IT BE ATTENTIONS OR SEX.

WHAT WAS YOUR MOTIVE TO GET HER GITF?
Sometype of favor..not necessary sex but
You were expecting sometype of sponse
From her to be in your favor.

Its basic codependemcy behaviors.
Your happiness is dependent on
Her reponse.

 

[putter65]

Everybody has said the same things, dump her etc.

We'll see what happens. I feel a millions times better today, more like my old self.

I might invite her for a coffee next week and see how that goes. (If she wants to that is)

I just have this feeling that you're a lot like me at heart and you have the right attitude, putter. You're not out of it yet but I believe you'll pass the test as I am 100% certain I did in how I chose to handle my most recent relationship issue. Don't ever let someone's display of poor character corrupt your own. Wrongs don't have to be fought with wrongs. There's so much win-win in choosing the route of forgiveness, it's not even funny. This does not mean be weak. This does not mean mend your heart with the same glass that someone's crappy actions fragmented in the past. But you have the power to be greater, so be greater.

---

Maybe at this point let her make the moves, don't waste too much energy on her "friendship".

From my point of view, there are trust issue with her. You know she's a liar, who says she won't just because you are "friends". It's a behavioural pattern she has. You might enjoy her company but to me there's always that nagging voice wondering if she'd being truthful or greedy. She wants what she wants from you but doesn't seem to want to give as much in return.

If Putter wants to give, he should give. But with that, he needs to set his expectations to 0 on the number line. nothing of positives, nothing of negatives.

Do what you're going to do regardless of what she'll do, putter. It makes you feel good to want to make her feel good. I'm almost certain it DOES make her feel good that you extend your hand to her the way you do. I know the feeling, and it is good. It is good to love even if you're not loved in return. I don't know if I'm quoting some wise man here, but I'm going to try this one. The man who doesn't give love and doesn't receive love has no love in his life, unlike the man who doesn't receive love but gives it.

My WORST days in thinking about someone who I'd felt wronged me were when I called myself building some dark strength to basically give her the middle finger (not physically or through words even, but in my mind/heart). My BEST days were when I knew I didn't want to be this way, felt I couldn't be this way and contemplated ways to make sure I didn't become this way. Shoot. Executing some of those ideas made me even happier (and turned out she liked it too). Am I weak for it? Absolutely not! I don't expect of her. I enjoy extending my hand to her, and that is good enough for me.

People here don't get why you care for her the way you do. Heck, you may not even get it entirely. I'm guessing you see things in her that you admire. You might even see crazy amounts of good in her, as Luke saw in Vader. That in itself is a great story of forgiveness and giving people a chance at redemption. It matters not what you see in her. The positive thing is that you care for someone. If you TRULY do, then don't betray that about yourself.

---

Thank you for your kind words.

All I know for definate is I feel way better than I did over the holidays. I feel like my normal self.

---

By the way, i don't think this is giving "unconditionally" I'm talking here. This isn't "give everything you have" or all of your money, or love her exclusively or anything like that. It's give love. Give a positive attitude. Give hope. Show a good example of forgiveness. THAT kind of giving can be done, in some fashion, unconditionally.

Oh, well if you mean that last bit, of course I agree.

Taking the moral high ground and being "the bigger person" in these sort of situations is naturally admirable. As is spreading forgiveness and being tolerant.

However, the line blurs sometimes and I think that's what you have to be careful of. Sometimes, people don't deserve redemption or yet another chance! Giving them that extension of kindness all too easily allows them to expose their rotten core again.

I'd say this woman is one of those cases. She has acted in a cold-hearted, devious and malicious manner. She seems to be manipulative and controlling, with a desire to continue to string people along for her own bizarre ends.

Furthermore, she engages in making others feel bad for her own transgressions when she has no right to do so.

Forgive her, yes. But then move on. Forgive and forget, quite literally!

You are right in the sense that there is no point being bitter or nasty about it, but equally there is no point in being so forgiving and naive that she gets to have Round 2 in her mindgames.

There is a big difference between being chivalrous, mature, altruistic, kind and forgiving about things and lining up to take a second sucker punch in the face from someone who doesn't deserve such honesty and goodwill!

"Forgiving" someone and parting with them on good terms is quite possible to do while simultaneously putting your foot down and showing that you're not taking anymore bollocks.

It's not nasty or "low" to stand up and point out when people are being completely immoral/unreasonable, in fact I'd say it's an essential component of being a strong and decent person.

A good heart with flimsy intentions is open to abuse from those who don't play by the rules.

(Did I wander there? Not sure. I hope I made my point a little less vague though...)

Her reasons for lying, she said was to 'avoid hurting my feelings' - She wanted to spend xmas and New Year somewhere else. With someone else as well and I have no idea if he is just a friend or anything more. She refused point blank to say where she was and who she was with.

She said if she had told me the truth I would have got upset. (I agreed)

And then she said she couldn't say she wanted to be by herself at xmas because I would have wanted to know why. (I agreed to that as well)

She was planning to continue with me in the New Year.

I told her the lying was one thing but the pretend texts were taking the piss. She didn't agree.

If I could go back in time I would have said nothing and let her send her pretend texts for a couple of weeks and then confronted her when she got back face to face.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

Buying love or friendships.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

Her reasons for lying, she said was to 'avoid hurting my feelings' - She wanted to spend xmas and New Year somewhere else. With someone else as well and I have no idea if he is just a friend or anything more. She refused point blank to say where she was and who she was with.

She said if she had told me the truth I would have got upset. (I agreed)

And then she said she couldn't say she wanted to be by herself at xmas because I would have wanted to know why. (I agreed to that as well)

She was planning to continue with me in the New Year.

I told her the lying was one thing but the pretend texts were taking the piss. She didn't agree.

If I could go back in time I would have said nothing and let her send her pretend texts for a couple of weeks and then confronted her when she got back face to face.

I'm pleased you stood up to her mate, well done

The first bit from her is plainly total crap. She thought she would spare your feelings by feeding you a flimsy false motivation while she was presumably off elsewhere humping some random guy? Absolutely dreadful.

Any woman with an ounce of respect, sincerity and emotional caring towards you would have levelled with you on it all without you having to even ask or find out - or not lead you on like that in the first place.

What she means to say is "I wanted to keep you in the dark and your knowing about it ruined my fun."

Also, the refusal to even tell you what she was up to at this late stage is pretty disgusting.

If it's over between both of you, the absolute least she could do is tell you the complete truth of what was going on and why. She's deluding herself if she thinks she's done nothing wrong here.

I'd run a mile. Don't bother texting her, meeting her, calling her or trying to keep friendly, just delete her number and forget her. She's not interested in friendship - and she doesn't deserve any attention from an honest man like you in my opinion.

There are billions of women in this world, unfortunately you seem to have had the misfortune to stumble on one that is not worth your time.

I bet you could make other women smile, laugh and talk to you. And behind that next smile there might not be those viper fangs glinting away!

 

[putter65]

Her reasons for lying, she said was to 'avoid hurting my feelings' - She wanted to spend xmas and New Year somewhere else. With someone else as well and I have no idea if he is just a friend or anything more. She refused point blank to say where she was and who she was with.

She said if she had told me the truth I would have got upset. (I agreed)

And then she said she couldn't say she wanted to be by herself at xmas because I would have wanted to know why. (I agreed to that as well)

She was planning to continue with me in the New Year.

I told her the lying was one thing but the pretend texts were taking the piss. She didn't agree.

If I could go back in time I would have said nothing and let her send her pretend texts for a couple of weeks and then confronted her when she got back face to face.

I'm pleased you stood up to her mate, well done

The first bit from her is plainly total crap. She thought she would spare your feelings by feeding you a flimsy false motivation while she was presumably off elsewhere humping some random guy? Absolutely dreadful.

Any woman with an ounce of respect, sincerity and emotional caring towards you would have levelled with you on it all without you having to even ask or find out - or not lead you on like that in the first place.

What she means to say is "I wanted to keep you in the dark and your knowing about it ruined my fun."

Also, the refusal to even tell you what she was up to at this late stage is pretty disgusting.

If it's over between both of you, the absolute least she could do is tell you the complete truth of what was going on and why. She's deluding herself if she thinks she's done nothing wrong here.

I'd run a mile. Don't bother texting her, meeting her, calling her or trying to keep friendly, just delete her number and forget her. She's not interested in friendship - and she doesn't deserve any attention from an honest man like you in my opinion.

There are billions of women in this world, unfortunately you seem to have had the misfortune to stumble on one that is not worth your time.

I bet you could make other women smile, laugh and talk to you. And behind that next smile there might not be those viper fangs glinting away!

Thanks

I honestly think any other bloke would have told her to '**** off' on Tuesday night. Or he would have shouted abuse at her. I kept calm and asked questions in a dignified manner. She swore a few times, I never did once.

I am keeping things cool, just sending one text a day. We will see what happens. I admit I need my head examined even thinking about wanting her back.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

Thanks

I honestly think any other bloke would have told her to '**** off' on Tuesday night. Or he would have shouted abuse at her. I kept calm and asked questions in a dignified manner. She swore a few times, I never did once.

I am keeping things cool, just sending one text a day. We will see what happens. I admit I need my head examined even thinking about wanting her back.

I'd keep things cooler, and don't send her any texts!

You have power over her too. She clearly likes your attention for whatever reason, so take control over the situation and withhold that from her.

That's not manipulative, unkind, cruel or anything like that. Just show her that you're not dependant on her interaction to feel good.

Look for another, nicer lady while simultaneously keeping her at a distance like that, if it makes you feel less lonely/more comfortable to have that text-based contact.

Nope, you don't "need your head examined." What you're feeling is a perfectly natural reponse to being lonely for a long time and then receiving flattering female attention.

I went through a similar thing myself. I was 19, had never had any kind of true romantic contact with a girl when this Eastern European girl was suddenly all obsessed with getting close to me.

She was nice enough, but also a little odd. I was rather intoxicated by it all and showed her far too much attention. I did a lot of stuff to help her out, acted very friendly towards her whenever I could.

We never had a relationship, but she kept me completely confused over what she wanted for 6 months and I felt awful during that time.

I eventually gained the strength of will to tell her that I was fed up with her weird passion for me (coupled with the total lack of substance) and severed contact completely.

I feel infinitely better for just cutting her off and I've had a whole bunch of really nice ladies who are prettier, more sincere and kinder take an interest in me in the year since then!

You hold at least 50% of the power in any relationship (100% really - it doesn't work without you), no one has a right to treat you poorly and there are plenty of women out there for you, even if sometimes you may feel like that's a long way away.

I apologise in advance if I seem patronising at all, being younger and everything, but I really had a revelation with that girl about how these things work, and I reckon it's very applicable in this situation too

 

[putter65]

Thanks

I honestly think any other bloke would have told her to '**** off' on Tuesday night. Or he would have shouted abuse at her. I kept calm and asked questions in a dignified manner. She swore a few times, I never did once.

I am keeping things cool, just sending one text a day. We will see what happens. I admit I need my head examined even thinking about wanting her back.

I'd keep things cooler, and don't send her any texts!

You have power over her too. She clearly likes your attention for whatever reason, so take control over the situation and withhold that from her.

That's not manipulative, unkind, cruel or anything like that. Just show her that you're not dependant on her interaction to feel good.

Look for another, nicer lady while simultaneously keeping her at a distance like that, if it makes you feel less lonely/more comfortable to have that text-based contact.

Nope, you don't "need your head examined." What you're feeling is a perfectly natural reponse to being lonely for a long time and then receiving flattering female attention.

I went through a similar thing myself. I was 19, had never had any kind of true romantic contact with a girl when this Eastern European girl was suddenly all obsessed with getting close to me.

She was nice enough, but also a little odd. I was rather intoxicated by it all and showed her far too much attention. I did a lot of stuff to help her out, acted very friendly towards her whenever I could.

We never had a relationship, but she kept me completely confused over what she wanted for 6 months and I felt awful during that time.

I eventually gained the strength of will to tell her that I was fed up with her weird passion for me (coupled with the total lack of substance) and severed contact completely.

I feel infinitely better for just cutting her off and I've had a whole bunch of really nice ladies who are prettier, more sincere and kinder take an interest in me in the year since then!

You hold at least 50% of the power in any relationship (100% really - it doesn't work without you), no one has a right to treat you poorly and there are plenty of women out there for you, even if sometimes you may feel like that's a long way away.

I apologise in advance if I seem patronising at all, being younger and everything, but I really had a revelation with that girl about how these things work, and I reckon it's very applicable in this situation too

My woman is eastern european too !

You don't have to say sorry, thank you for your advice.

Playing it ultra cool was something I had in mind. I am off work next week and I plan to play alot of golf and goto the cinema a few times. I won't pay her that much attention. It all depends on how I feel.

 

[jjam]

TSM, you are my boy! You know I appreciate what you have to say on matters. However, I just can't dig some of what it seems you're encouraging here. Deny her messages? Why? It is a kind gesture. He likes doing it. She likes that he likes doing it.
Why would he turn around and play this game of withholding texts? some kind of retaliation? some kind of "I'll show you that I'm not sprung or don't REALLY care about you" move?
Why does he need to show her that? What does that accomplish? I think putter can avoid abandoning her and protect his heart simultaneously.

It seems to me putter doesn't want to poison his spirit with this kind of stuff, and it's probably awesome that he can show someone else that they don't need to be that way either. The BULL**** that people do to each other doesn't have to be contagious. Putter cares for her. It's POSSIBLE she cares for putter, even. It's possible that she is not a monster, just not as strong as others.

Do your thing, putter. Keep us posted.

 

[Anten]

If this chick is dumping everything on you then there isn't going to be much of anything with her in your future that is positive. Yeah you probably shouldn't have given her all those gifts but it doesn't make what she did right. She could have just been upfront with you instead of giving you a bunch of ******** and stringing you along. This isn't a misunderstanding of any sort and isn't a great foundation for a friendship. You are putting in all the work and she is making it clear she doesn't plan on to.

I am only saying this because a lot of people here have went through this and we know it rarely works out.

 

[jjam]

You are right in the sense that there is no point being bitter or nasty about it, but equally there is no point in being so forgiving and naive that she gets to have Round 2 in her mindgames.

The game is what you make it. You're only strung along if you allow it.
What's the good man, who sincerely cared for a woman who strung him along, to do?
Stop caring for her, detest her, and never speak to her again?
Or
Continue caring for her, hope that she'll get well, show her that she remains welcomed but learn and adjust his expectations of her regarding the relationship accordingly?

Just from my own experience, choosing the latter did me MUCH more good (and believe me, I flirted with the former). It may (though I'm not counting on it) do her good. In some strange way, it could do another good.

 

[Anten]

I say there is no point in being friends with someone who doesn't treat you with the respect you deserve as a friend. You aren't playing games with the girl since she already proved to be not worth it. She chose to do him wrong so in return don't continue something that is fruitless. We all want to be a super save-a-hoe but sometimes people just can't be saved and it isn't up to you to change a person.

putter65 is too emotionally invested to just sit back and play it cool. The best thing is not to deal with hear completely. Yes, seems like he is doing it for all the wrong reasons but read above.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

Here you go Putter...

Pretty Girl ( THE WAY) by Sugarcult.

Pretty girl you're suffering
While he confesses everything.
Pretty soon shell figure out
What his intention were about.

That's what you get for falling again.
You can never get him out of your head.

ITs THE WAY!!!!
That he makes you feel.
ITS THE WAY!!!
That he kisses you.
ITS THE WAY!!!
That he makes you fall in love....

Shes beautiful as usual
With bruises on her ego.
Her killer instincts tell her to
be awear of evil men.

Thats what get for falling again
you can never get him out of your head.


ITS THE WAY!!!!
That he makes you cry.
ITS THE WAY!!!!
That he is in your mind.
ITS THE WAY!!!!
That he makes you fall in love.....

---

Dont worry Putter,
I heard it from all angles...
Before I drove 1500 miles to be
With RENAE a couple months ago.
My bondagebabe and brokenwings.

The crazy **** she and i went through 6 mnts ago
While we were living in NV was really twisted.
Mosf guys would have ran like hell.lol

So as soon as I got to TX...The fun continues.lmao
And jt got really fun and funner.
NV was like childs play.lol

Im sticking to her like crazyglue...
She is the mother of my child.
No matter how bad. No matter how ****** up...
People couldnt stop me....
I cant even stop me.....

---

The thing of it is, ive lived through toxic relationships before and
Suffered the consiquence of it.
It was horrible. I wish it upon
no one.
The things ive lived through
With Renae are worst.

But here I am...with her.
Again and again and again...
I love her and she say she loves
me...
But our lives at the moment
Is ****** up in more ways than one.

---

For the first in my life, I feel I LOVE no one else but her.

I ran out on her 22 yrs ago
Because of all the crazy ****.
And its not as if i did know
How to move on or lived
without her....cuz i had.

And its not as if im not
Knowlegeable or know
What a healthy relationship
Shold be...cause i do.
Today...its her or nothing

 

[Lonesome Crow]

It has nothing to do with her being a pretty woman.
Its not about sex.
Its not even about i need to be with a woman.

Renae and I have something very very deep
Within us that needs to get resolve.
She reaches out to me as i do her just the same.
Yes, at some deep level we both wants this.
Whatever lessons Renae and i need to learn
Or whatever experience she and i needs
To go through .....its like fate.
I ran from renae before...
All my fucken problems leads back to her.
I cant run anymore.