No friends.

[swirlturtle]

LOL. you also don't know what they are talking about 99.9 percent of the time nor how well they are at speaking in english. The OP also did not reveal anything that would be a reasonable basis for you to make assumptions that this group is being rude to her. She merely shared her feelings towards this said group. What DTR is trying to say is that there are other sides of the story too that may help the OP on better assessing the situation to come up with a good reaction and perspective about it. DTR's post also did not show any rudeness to the OP at all. She merely gave advice and another perspective of the situation which I think is more helpful than automatically taking sides and inflaming the resentment that the OP already feels towards her supposed friends when in reality we don't know these people at all to readily judge them. Now if this group is really doing it in purpose, then that is the good time to find herself better friends... Anytime I'd take an advice that brings my head down to the ground to see other people's sides and check if my reaction to a certain situation is reasonable than an advice that would just make me feel like a victim because the world just wants to pick on me.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

LOL. you also don't know what they are talking about 99.9 percent of the time nor how well they are at speaking in english. The OP also did not reveal anything that would be a reasonable basis for you to make assumptions that this group is being rude to her. She merely shared her feelings towards this said group. What DTR is trying to say is that there are other sides of the story too that may help the OP on better assessing the situation to come up with a good reaction and perspective about it. DTR's post also did not show any rudeness to the OP at all. She merely gave advice and another perspective of the situation which I think is more helpful than automatically taking sides and inflaming the resentment that the OP already feels towards her supposed friends when in reality we don't know these people at all to readily judge them. Now if this group is really doing it in purpose, then that is the good time to find herself better friends... Anytime I'd take an advice that brings my head down to the ground to see other people's sides and check if my reaction to a certain situation is reasonable than an advice that would just make me feel like a victim because the world just wants to pick on me.

Turtle does a good job at taking everything I was gonna reply with and making it less insulting. *cuddlecuddle*

I also have this to add: Language, race, and culture are pretty ******* big factors in humanity. To imply otherwise would be the height of social ignorance.

rdor, the OP gave no definitive evidence stating that these people were being oh-so unaccommodating, as the story was entirely one-sided and more influenced by emotion than anything else.

And even if they had been - what I'm saying is, it sounds like OP made no attempt to meet halfway, either. That's a pot calling a kettle black.

Furthermore, that these girls might be of any ethnic minority does not excuse a child wanting relationships to be tailored to her liking without putting forth any effort, herself. The same could be said, even if you removed the racial aspect and replaced it with any other social group: You have to make an effort to understand people.

Oh they might not want her to speak their language? She might get a negative response? Who the hell is stopping her? If she wanted to, she could learn ten different languages. What, is it a federal offense and I'm not aware of it? What power do those girls have over her ability to educate herself?

Nil. So again: if she cares about these girls so much, why didn't she try?

If we're going to condone a defeatist attitude so as to let the OP believe that she is a lonely victim here and that nothing can be done about it, then what the hell is the point? Just tell her to continue being an outcast, then. It's fewer words and less patronizing. In fact, to hell with anything I said. OP should follow that advice!

And let us not forget that EVERYONE on this site is suffering for the very same reason that is, others fail to see things from our individual perspectives. We know OP's point of view, as it's her story - seems a bit hypocritical to not take other angles into account, don't you think?

Ah, and FYI - Almost every member of my family is perfectly fluent in English. If you knew the first thing about languages, you'd know that there are words that DO NOT translate into English--or any other language, for that matter.

Sure, the adult thing would be to explain that fact and try to find an alternative expression, but these are not adults. These are teenage girls. You're telling me that I should expect her friends to be more adult than she is, and expect absolutely nothing of her? Oh, yeah. Real fair.

It is not within OP's power to change her friends, but she can change herself. If she gave it her best and still saw no results, at least she tried. If she chooses not to reach out, then she's just as bad as they are. To suggest anything less would be insulting of her intelligence, and inhibiting her ability to grow as a human being.

But, hey, no skin off my nose. I mean, what the hell do I know? Only 50% of my family and friends are from foreign countries. Only 100% of them have suffered struggles in communication and acceptance throughout their American school lives, directly related to racial and cultural intolerance. Surely, your iron-clad and totally not-generalized statistic for these minority groups...hn, what was it?

"99.9% of the time I'd bet it's nothing to do with such "struggles", and much of it probably nothing unique to cultural background at all."

Oh, yeah. Surely, that is the real truth, here.

Rock on, brother.

Oh, but Turtle... *cuddlecuddlecuddle*

 

[Thomas]]

Doubt The Rabbit - I think the point that's being made is that they quite honestly have the ability to include her in their conversations when it's just the 3 of them, but they choose not to probably cos it's simply just easier for them.

Sure - translating out of your native language can't be easy. But for a friend, actually, it should be worth the trouble. I'd consider that pretty rude.

And we're talking constant / often. Not occasional..

 

[swirlturtle]

Like i said in previous post.... There are plenty of ways to let her friends know she feels excluded... E.g. Try to learn the language so she can include herself.. Or just simply asking, hey what are you talking about? *smiles*


Also we cannot deny the fact that maybe her friends dont notice that she feels excluded because 1. They are concentrating on the topic they are talking about. 2. They think it is not her concern. 3. She doesnt mind it... An easy assumption if she doesnt show she feels excluded.

So what is the popular advice? Ditch your friend. Dont care about them. And find "true friends". Arent true friends suppose to put their foot in their friend's shoe to understand them and be honest to them about what they feel?. So these supposed girls aren't real friends. Then why the heck is the OP hanging out them while also feeling resentment towards them? But yes.. It's so much easy to tell someone.. Go find "real friends" who will take you for who you are wihout you doing the same.

On another note: I hate to think that this forum is just one big pity party for everyone who feels lonely without offering a solution to cope or help with at least some of the problems. But a forum is only as good as its members.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

^What Turtle said.

And sure - they have the ability to make effort to include her in conversations. But, guess what? They're not the ones venting about not being accepted within that group. OP is. If OP is the one with the problem, only OP can fix it. It should be worth the trouble to tell your friends that something's bothering you, or to try and find ways to better understand them.

My point is, a lot of people in this thread gave shitpoor advice - "Dump 'em, they're not real friends." or even, "They're probably insulting you and don't want you to hear it."

If anyone's rude, it's the people who actually believe that **** without even having met the girls.

Those girls probably aren't even aware of what they're doing, and if OP isn't going to speak up, then OP is also at fault.

 

[Thomas]]

Doubt:

Pretty neat that you have judged a lot of people's advice on here as "**** poor advice". I consider that **** poor attitude.

You're so aggressive at those offering advise you disagree with. And actually for me it is quite simple. If two people I knew treated me like that constantly, I would leave. You consider that ignorant of me, but I would say it's ignorant of them. I think I treat my friends very nicely if they return the same. I honestly wouldn't want to get further involved if I were in the position. Speaking up is obviously a good suggestion. But there's more to it than simply just speaking up. Or learning a new language. .. . .. ...

Doesn't matter whether I've met them or not - every situation on this forum is going to be hypothetical for the rest of us. Let's agree to disagree and not shout out loud about who's the "most right" shall we..

swirl:

And this is clearly not a pity party? It's an advice forum - there are lots of kind people here trying to advise others. We have different opinions of how to do it. Let's please not infer that this forum is "one big pity party".

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

Lol, dear, I can tell you right now that this isn't an advice forum, nor was it ever intended to be. And yes, it can become a huge pity party quite often. Such is the nature of forums like this one. Turtle is not incorrect.

And I don't know about you, but if I ever found out I was being accused of insulting people just because I slipped into a language that's not English out of habit, I'd be pretty damn insulted, myself. Think for a moment about all the non-native English speakers here who HAVE read this thread and HAVE been offended due to the thoughtless statements made against people like them, who also practice that innocent habit. Yeah. I know, because I've spoken to them. Here's the key:

I don't make grossly negative assumptions about someone I've never spoken to based on one person's emotional rant, and especially those that can offend anyone that practices that innocent habit.

Instead, I draw my negative conclusions on that which I do see, and I see that it's ******. And it's offensive. And it's ignorant. And it's intolerant. It was something that had no business being said. To say it hurts your feelings is one thing, but to accuse them of being purposefully insulting is a whole other. And I'm pointing that out. But you're right, I do have a shitpoor attitude - thanks for noticing!

 

[WallflowerGirl83]

I'm sorry to hear that your friends are so harsh towards you. I've had a lot of people during my high school years that was harsh towards me and ridiculed me through out the whole year. Bullying is horrible and it shouldn't be tolerated. Always been a loner and spend mostly to myself most of the time cause all of my friends brought me down, more than bringing me up. If you want someone to talk too though, you can send me a pm. I'm not a judgmental person and understand the pain you're going through. There's a lot of horrible people out there and I'm sorry there so harsh towards you. Take care, big hugs! :3

 

[Thomas]]

Doubt - Your words are factual.

 

[ardour]

DTR's perspective is poor oppressed minority vs entitled white girl. It was always going to be that.

IMO minorities often cling their identity to such a degree that they would be offended if ****** were to try and be "one of them", partly as a reaction to minority status, partly because of attitudes brought with them, depending on country of origin. We're not the only ones capable of being arrogant, and yup, racist.

That's assuming they even like her to begin with, it seems likely they don't. The OP could be spinning her wheels for a few years, trying to learn another language / culture, desperate for the acceptance of people she will never see again after graduating. Defeatist perhaps, but I don't think that advice is very realistic for a teen in high school.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

It is NOT poor oppressed minority; it is ANY foreigner.

My perspective is ignorant, entitled Americans vs. Foreigners in general. And I really don't appreciate you acting like you understand my perspective on the matter, because not only are you mistaken, but you come off like a huge, gaping ass while you do it. Meanwhile, I did no such thing to you.

For your information, I'd have the same stance if I was in another country speaking for an American immigrant. It's not acceptable anywhere. The only difference is that other countries aren't broadcasting any claim to be the melting pot of jack ****, so I can't quite call them hypocrites.

But that isn't even the entire point regarding OP's issue. It was mostly in response to the people here who suggested that her friends were purposely insulting her in their own language - a statement that it turns out has offended some of the non-American members who read it.

In regard to OP's problem, she can walk away. She can find new friends. Far be it from me to advise her to remain in a relationship that causes her pain. However, since OP seemed to express that these girls were somewhat important to her at one point, enough to make her feel distressed that they found other people to hang with, I gave her alternatives to help her keep her friends and not feel lonely. What, exactly, have you done so far? Project your clear resent towards some ethnic groups? How helpful. With **** like that, I can clearly see how this forum could be mistaken for an "advice forum". Give me a ******* break.

And again - why the **** does it matter what they'd be offended by? I'm saying if she hasn't made any effort, she can't shift the blame entirely on them (and here I thought this point was crystal clear, seeing as I've reiterated it at least five times). Sure, some ethnic groups are quite defensive of their cultural identity. I belong to two of them. But, guess what? They don't have the power to stop her. And again, you're just relying on assumption. You don't know what they'd do. That's like saying, "If I ask the girl out, she might turn me down." - a mentality that explains for damn sure why loneliness is on the rise.

Learning their language was an example. I never full-out studied the languages of any of my foreign friends. But I did take a five-minute google search to learn a thing or two about what they were talking about regarding their culture. Festivals that were coming up, or foods they ate. That way, when they brought them up to me, I wasn't completely in the dark. I was able to ask intelligent questions. I was able to take something from their culture and relate.

In this day and age where information is so readily available that you can quickly educate yourself on literally any topic, there is NO reason why you can't reach out to someone whose ethnicity is causing a barrier in your relationship. To sit there and pretend like ethnicity and culture don't factor into human interaction is so ignorant, I don't even know where to begin. The evidence is clear here where ethnicity is obviously causing a barrier between this girl and her friends. I'm saying: It's a ******* two way street.

I'm saying she HAS options. She does not need to sit there and feel powerless. Find new friends, or make an effort with the ones you've got. If you've got a problem with that advice, rdor, then I'm not quite sure what else to tell you. But I can rest assured knowing I've been quite a bit more productive than piecing together arguments and providing very little substance. Jeez, why not give it a rest? I'm kind of wondering whether you even read my posts in full, or if you just skim through with a fine-toothed comb, picking up fragments that you could formulate even a tiny argument against.

Well, I really am awfully sorry, but I don't quite have the time to extend to you the same kind of attention - or any kind, for much longer. It doesn't look like OP is still reading and I've already said what I had to say. I'd be lying if I said I couldn't think of a million things I could possibly do that would beat out having this enriching little talk with you, rdor. But, hey, you just keep it up, and maybe someone else will step in for me. You have yourself a good day there, buddy, y'hear?

 

[Thomas]]

DTR:

Your last post actually cleared up for me a lot of your intent. And I agree with pretty much all of it.

My problem prior to that has been that, to me anyway, you seem to come across that what you're saying is the only right way.

I thought that your last post was actually very insightful, thoughtful and open.. Shows your feelings (which are very well justified clearly) and why you think what everyone else (well majority) said here were wrong. You didn't say it was all wrong outright though, this time :shy:. My intention isn't to rile you up further, but actually your last post sounded very... adviseful (apparently that's not a word) to me . And I'd be interested to hear your views as to why this isn't an advice forum.. what is it then?

But anyway that's off topic. I apologise if I've contributed to your upset in this thread. I hope OP does read all the helpful words here and that her situation resolves soon : )

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

DTR:

Your last post actually cleared up for me a lot of your intent. And I agree with pretty much all of it.

My problem prior to that has been that, to me anyway, you seem to come across that what you're saying is the only right way.

I thought that your last post was actually very insightful, thoughtful and open.. Shows your feelings (which are very well justified clearly) and why you think what everyone else (well majority) said here were wrong. You didn't say it was all wrong outright though, this time :shy:. My intention isn't to rile you up further, but actually your last post sounded very... adviseful (apparently that's not a word) to me . And I'd be interested to hear your views as to why this isn't an advice forum.. what is it then?

But anyway that's off topic. I apologise if I've contributed to your upset in this thread. I hope OP does read all the helpful words here and that her situation resolves soon : )

Lol, I'm not the least bit upset, but I can be very fervent and resolute when I debate. Perhaps even to a fault, as it sounds like I hadn't made my intent very clear. Well, in any case, I'm happy you appreciate my point of view. It's not something I expect every single person to do, but, well - I take what's given to me and respect the rest.

As to why I don't feel this site is an advice forum, it's because it's not. ALL is a space for the lonely and depressed to come together and take the edge off their loneliness. We discuss things, whatever they may be. To call this an advice forum would only cover a small portion of it. It's a bitch and whine forum; it's a work through problems forum; it's a journal forum; it's a game forum; it's a hang out and shoot the **** forum. It's a whatever you need to feel a little less lonely forum. I don't think it was ever intended to go in any particular direction within that.

 

[nerdygirl]

I think it is most likely that these girls have grown up speaking their language. When they go home, the majority of the conversations they have are probably in this other language. I mean, that's how it is for most of us who have culturally different families.

And really, I don't think you can see this as just race or language. It's about an entire culture. I'm half Asian. English wasn't my first language. I wore traditional clothing. I grew up eating foods that look like Klingon delicacies. I was raised with specific values and ideas that aren't necessarily American. However, I was also raised in the US. So I'd go to school with lunches the other kids thought were weird. I didn't wear the traditional clothes at school, but I still wore stuff the other kids didn't. There were a lot of things I did or thought that were just... different.

When I'm surrounded by my family, or when I go to one of our churches or a function, it really is like stepping from one world into another. There are times it feels a little weird to me, but at the same time, it kind of feels like home .

I didn't even bother to invite most of my friends to join us. However, I had one friend who really wanted to hang out with me, so she was there for a lot. She learned bits of the language, how to prepare some of our foods, etc. She never ran out of group pictures, so there a lot of photos with a bunch of Asian people- and my best friend.

I also made sure to be there for all of her stuff. I was with her family for a lot of events and holidays that my family didn't celebrate. I was even at a few family reunions. I love that we were each able to experience so many things we wouldn't have if we hadn't been friends.

I think you should take advantage of the fact that you've got friends from another culture. Join in when you can. Learn, share, have fun.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

Exactly what Nerdy said!

 

[ardour]

Nerdygirl stated she considered her non-Asian friend a genuine friend and is referring to family/cultural events outside of school.

I didn't tell the OP to do nothing and stay an outcast, she needs to step out of the situation and talk to new people even though that will involve suffering rejection. Anything would be better than remaining a charity case on the margins of a clique, because as harsh as it is to say, that seems like the most likely scenario here (she said she was being bullied)

Ah, and FYI - Almost every member of my family is perfectly fluent in English. If you knew the first thing about languages, you'd know that there are words that DO NOT translate into English--or any other language, for that matter.

Sure, the adult thing would be to explain that fact and try to find an alternative expression, but these are not adults. These are teenage girls. You're telling me that I should expect her friends to be more adult than she is, and expect absolutely nothing of her? Oh, yeah. Real fair.

They're making little if any attempt to talk to her over the space of HOURS. So the burden is apparently on her to learn an entirely new language if she wants any interaction (at all!), but there's no equivalent obligation for them to communicate with her, even for a short time... and they speak English. The reason; some words/phrases don't translate easily. That puts everything on the OP's shoulders, hardly fair either.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Thinking back to when I was 17, or even 14, I was a completely different person.

I make music, so a lot of my thoughts have been captured on tape or CD. I've been listening back to my lyrics, written and sung at the age of 14, and it's completely different to how I think and feel now. I genuinely felt like I was in a type of hell, apparently, from the lyrics...and even though I can't remember the specifics of being bullied, I can listen back to these tapes and realize that I was in a terrible situation.

Have you tried journaling? Lyric writing and song writing was the way I got it out, but maybe by keeping a diary, you could deal with all these negative emotions?

 

[swirlturtle]

Nerdygirl stated she considered her non-Asian friend a genuine friend and is referring to family/cultural events outside of school.

I didn't tell the OP to do nothing and stay an outcast, she needs to step out of the situation and talk to new people even though that will involve suffering rejection. Anything would be better than remaining a charity case on the margins of a clique, because as harsh as it is to say, that seems like the most likely scenario here (she said she was being bullied)

Ah, and FYI - Almost every member of my family is perfectly fluent in English. If you knew the first thing about languages, you'd know that there are words that DO NOT translate into English--or any other language, for that matter.

Sure, the adult thing would be to explain that fact and try to find an alternative expression, but these are not adults. These are teenage girls. You're telling me that I should expect her friends to be more adult than she is, and expect absolutely nothing of her? Oh, yeah. Real fair.

They're making little if any attempt to talk to her over the space of HOURS. So the burden is apparently on her to learn an entirely new language if she wants any interaction (at all!), but there's no equivalent obligation for them to communicate with her, even for a short time... and they speak English. The reason; some words/phrases don't translate easily. That puts everything on the OP's shoulders, hardly fair either.

I think you did not read DTR's post. Cos if you did, you'd get her point and realize that what you are saying now have already been answered.

---

Nerdygirl stated she considered her non-Asian friend a genuine friend and is referring to family/cultural events outside of school.

I didn't tell the OP to do nothing and stay an outcast, she needs to step out of the situation and talk to new people even though that will involve suffering rejection. Anything would be better than remaining a charity case on the margins of a clique, because as harsh as it is to say, that seems like the most likely scenario here (she said she was being bullied)

Ah, and FYI - Almost every member of my family is perfectly fluent in English. If you knew the first thing about languages, you'd know that there are words that DO NOT translate into English--or any other language, for that matter.

Sure, the adult thing would be to explain that fact and try to find an alternative expression, but these are not adults. These are teenage girls. You're telling me that I should expect her friends to be more adult than she is, and expect absolutely nothing of her? Oh, yeah. Real fair.

They're making little if any attempt to talk to her over the space of HOURS. So the burden is apparently on her to learn an entirely new language if she wants any interaction (at all!), but there's no equivalent obligation for them to communicate with her, even for a short time... and they speak English. The reason; some words/phrases don't translate easily. That puts everything on the OP's shoulders, hardly fair either.

I think you did not read DTR's post. Cos if you did, you'd get her point and realize that what you are saying now have already been answered.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

*giggle* It's okay, Turtle. <3 Actually, rdor here edited his post early this morning, but I read the original and it was something that was a hair shy of an apology and concession.

So, he can beat the dead horse all he wants to, but I know what he really meant to say. But hey, some people really can't back down. It's all good, brother rdor. *pat pat* Let's make peace.

 

[ardour]