One’s Perspective on Life

[okidoke]

Some say it’s meaningless. Maybe sure it might be meaningless since we just die in the end. Or is that really saying there’s no "point" to life because we just die in the end? Life can be meaningful of course. But when we see who says it's meaningless, it tends to be people who are not enjoying their life. So maybe it’s a catch22 situation? Was the thought that life is meaningless there before that person began having a challenging miserable life? Do happy people think life is meaningless, or they don’t care? Is it just a human thing? Would the animal kingdom think life is meaningless?

I just think life is life. Instinct coaxes the necessity to reproduce. How we make that life appealing is generally up to us. How we make it meaningful is up to us. Meaning doesn’t generally comes to us. It can sometimes, but I think it’s up to each of us to make our life meaningful. Do things that are meaningful. That mean something to others. I reckon that if you sampled a population and separated those who felt life was meaningless from the others, you would find that the former had more miserable lives by comparison. And perhaps even just thinking life is meaningless leads to one feeling less happy about life and so goes the spiral down.

That’s just my opinion of course. Feel free to share yours. I’m going off on a bike ride and make my life a bit more meaningful.

 

[sub5male]

"How we make that life appealing is generally up to us."

I strongly disagree-life comes down to pure, random chance for the most part and our locus of control is far smaller than we like to believe.

As far as we know other animals do not ponder their own existence so this is not an issue for them. I would instead suggest that most humans who are happy are able to delude and/or distract themselves from the inherent meaninglessness of existence and that people rarely if ever ponder deep existential questions because doing so often leads to very uncomfortable conclusions.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

My opinion? My opinion is meaningless...

 

[TropicalStarfish]

One interesting bit, is how, meaninglessness and futility, can be either the focal point of a profound despair, or an ecstatic liberation and release.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Who cares if life has a greater meaning or not. Life is what you make it. It you made it into something you don't like, you have the option to change it, to make it something different.
If you want life to have meaning, go out and FIND a meaning, I'm sure here are millions.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

I find for myself that the meaning of life itself, is outside the grasp of what is comprehensible to humans as we live inside the overall factor of living things in nature and are thus as equally subject to these such other things as these such other things such as animals are as subject to us. We eat chickens, and while chickens can't eat us, jaguars, alligators, sharks, and other such animals certainly can. Therefore I suppose my perspective is less subjective about the meaning of life. During my early and middle 20's, if someone asked me if the glass was half full or half empty, my usual response was that the glass is twice as full as it's about to be. While it's not my particular practice or view to see other people as tools for my objective and utilitarian use, it has unfortunately befallen society that this approach has become rather normal. However because I'm objective across the board with pretty much everything else outside of socializing, I am able to comprehend it, even if I don't like or agree with it. I live and navigate in the between, with objective utilitarianism for resource management away and separate from social interaction as much as possible. There are two reasons I do that: The first is that it's just good practical defense and damage control via risk assessment. If you don't put yourself in harms way, you don't get hurt. The second, is that the first is so simple that people who do rely on objective and utilitarian use of other people in the improper or maligned agenda kind of a way, they don't see that, I just look like an idiot to them. So, it automates itself as a defensive mechanism. This allows me to focus on myself more psychologically and objectively as well as with my life direction and so on and so forth. I mean, I guess when I was younger and more emotionally malleable to society due to my lack of experience in life that I thought more subjectively, I'd argue perhaps more "normal," but as I got older, got thrown to the wolves enough times, basically that kind of got beaten out of me. I understand it, because I used to be like that, and in truth it would be nice to have a utopian level of peace in the Huxley type of an approach, but greed drives people, which I quite hate, and so therefore, I have to be the way that I am for survival purposes. It works. If it's not Baroque, don't fix it.

 

[okidoke]

I strongly disagree-life comes down to pure, random chance for the most part and our locus of control is far smaller than we like to believe................. I would instead suggest that most humans who are happy are able to delude and/or distract themselves from the inherent meaninglessness of existence and that people rarely if ever ponder deep existential questions because doing so often leads to very uncomfortable conclusions.

This sounds like the talk of someone who has had little luck in achieving things in their life. Is that true? Sure things don't always work out how we want, or an illness can completely change our lives, or a derailed train can suddenly wipe us out - of course that can happen, but surely you can't suggest it's a waste of time to study, learn skills, better our abilities in various ways, to better our chances of succeeding at our desires? Of course we can better our lives and circumstances, of course we can influence our path in life. What you call deluding and distracting (although distraction can help us get through tough situations) are just ways to enjoy our time on this planet, instead of just living each day to eat and survive to hopefully procreate with a partner to further the species. So what are these "very uncomfortable conclusions" resulting from pondering "deep existential questions"?

 

[okidoke]

I find for myself that the meaning of life itself, ............................................................. If it's not Baroque, don't fix it.

Okay, that was interesting. Perhaps it is outside of the of what is comprehensible to humans, but then again, maybe we're trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Okay, that was interesting. Perhaps it is outside of the of what is comprehensible to humans, but then again, maybe we're trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

"42."

 

[okidoke]

"42."

Of course, but remember, we need to understand The Question.

 

[Sir Joseph]

Some say it’s meaningless. Maybe sure it might be meaningless since we just die in the end. Or is that really saying there’s no "point" to life because we just die in the end? Life can be meaningful of course. But when we see who says it's meaningless, it tends to be people who are enjoying their life. So maybe it’s a catch22 situation? Was the thought that life is meaningless there before that person began having a challenging miserable life? Do happy people think life is meaningless, or they don’t care? Is it just a human thing? Would the animal kingdom think life is meaningless?

I just think life is life. Instinct coaxes the necessity to reproduce. How we make that life appealing is generally up to us. How we make it meaningful is up to us. Meaning doesn’t generally comes to us. It can sometimes, but I think it’s up to each of us to make our life meaningful. Do things that are meaningful. That mean something to others. I reckon that if you sampled a population and separated those who felt life was meaningless from the others, you would find that the former had more miserable lives by comparison. And perhaps even just thinking life is meaningless leads to one feeling less happy about life and so the spiral down goes.

That’s just my opinion of course. Feel free to share yours. I’m going off on a bike ride and make my life a bit more meaningful.

If you believe in neo-Darwinian evolution like most people in the world today, you should understand that we're just a bunch of chemicals arranged by accident through natural processes. If this is the case, then you must accept the implications that life has no meaning, you have no purpose, and your time here is limited. Whether you choose to do something great for mankind or just live a selfish life of indulgence, it won't matter in the end. It's all temporary.

If you want to believe something more hopeful, then the Christian faith has that to offer. It helps too that it holds a preponderance of evidence for being true.

The evidence for a supernatural creator of the universe and all life as we know it is prevalent - whether you look up into the night sky and ponder the awesome display of creative power, look at the complexity of DNA and bio-chemical processes, or consider your possession of a mind and conscience.

The evidence for the Bible's truth and reliability is powerful and compelling - whether you study the manuscript authority, historical witness accounts, scientific insight, archaeological support, or fulfilled prophesies.

Thus, I believe what the Bible teaches me: that we were created for a defined purpose in life: to know and love God each day and to learn how to love others. For those that embrace this faith through Jesus, we have peace in this life and hope for the next, better, eternal one to come. For those that reject it, there's a judgement day coming where we'll be held accountable for every thought, action, and decision we made. Shall you put your soul's faith in Darwin or Jesus?

 

[sub5male]

This sounds like the talk of someone who has had little luck in achieving things in their life. Is that true? Sure things don't always work out how we want, or an illness can completely change our lives, or a derailed train can suddenly wipe us out - of course that can happen, but surely you can't suggest it's a waste of time to study, learn skills, better our abilities in various ways, to better our chances of succeeding at our desires? Of course we can better our lives and circumstances, of course we can influence our path in life. What you call deluding and distracting (although distraction can help us get through tough situations) are just ways to enjoy our time on this planet, instead of just living each day to eat and survive to hopefully procreate with a partner to further the species. So what are these "very uncomfortable conclusions" resulting from pondering "deep existential questions"?

The uncomfortable conclusions are that existence is inherently meaningless

If you believe in neo-Darwinian evolution like most people in the world today, you should understand that we're just a bunch of chemicals arranged by accident through natural processes. If this is the case, then you must accept the implications that life has no meaning, you have no purpose, and your time here is limited. Whether you choose to do something great for mankind or just live a selfish life of indulgence, it won't matter in the end. It's all temporary.

If you want to believe something more hopeful, then the Christian faith has that to offer. It helps too that it holds a preponderance of evidence for being true.

The evidence for a supernatural creator of the universe and all life as we know it is prevalent - whether you look up into the night sky and ponder the awesome display of creative power, look at the complexity of DNA and bio-chemical processes, or consider your possession of a mind and conscience.

The evidence for the Bible's truth and reliability is powerful and compelling - whether you study the manuscript authority, historical witness accounts, scientific insight, archaeological support, or fulfilled prophesies.

Thus, I believe what the Bible teaches me: that we were created for a defined purpose in life: to know and love God each day and to learn how to love others. For those that embrace this faith through Jesus, we have peace in this life and hope for the next, better, eternal one to come. For those that reject it, there's a judgement day coming where we'll be held accountable for every thought, action, and decision we made. Shall you put your soul's faith in Darwin or Jesus?

The idea's you suggest are the precise reasons why human's invented gods & religions (of which there are thousands) in the first place-to try and make sense of the natural world and give some kind of meaning outside of our physical existence. Of course, if one is going to reference a soul (or any other "non physical" entity) they must have proof of it, for which there is none.

 

[okidoke]

If this is the case, then you must accept the implications that life has no meaning, you have no purpose, and your time here is limited.

I must? Why must I? Even if life does have no meaning, you can still make it meaningful. Even if it has no purpose, you can make it purposeful. And even if it’s limited, you can still have hope and something to live for.

they must have proof of it, for which there is none.

They accept certain proofs. That’s what matters to them.

 

[sub5male]

They accept certain proofs. That’s what matters to them.

Unless the proofs they accept are able to distinguish reality from imagination they are for the most part meaningless though.

 

[okidoke]

Unless the proofs they accept are able to distinguish reality from imagination they are for the most part meaningless though.

i'm not sure i understand what you're saying here. can you rephrase your comment perhaps?

if you're saying that religious people's beliefs are meaningless because their accepted proofs can't be distinguished between reality and imagination, then that can't be true because to them those proofs are very meaningful, whether we think so or not.

just about anything can be meaningful to anyone. it's your life and yours to live with whatever meaning you choose.

 

[sub5male]

What I am saying is that of course anyone is free to believe anything they wish to but unless their beliefs correspond to reality they are merely deluding themselves in order to create meaning. It's like a lonely child who creates an invisible friend to try and feel better.

The difference is as as adults our beliefs more directly afffect others so when people with religious beliefs demand others follow the rules of their said religion (such as abortion or gay marriage to name just a few) it becomes extremely problematic. The same goes for threatening vulnerable children with threats of hell and enternal damnation if they do not comply. Along with attempting to create meaning, this is another reason that religions were created-as instruments of control and domination.

 

[Kar]

I don't think life is meaningless even though in the end we'll all be dead. I have a very complex thought about this but basically our life isn't just about us. It's part of a continuation of millennia of sacrifices to the future. There was a time, tens of thousands of years ago, when our ancestors left the safety of the caves. I believe there were probably huge debates - why leave the caves? It is safer here than outside of it. But others might have said they once left the caves briefly and saw the promise of perhaps even better life though it would be true, the risks to life would be greater. We are the offspring of those who left the caves not the ones who stayed. Many of them must have died being easy prey to animals but our survival is due to the sacrifice they made. Similarly, during World War 2, there were so many who laid down their life not for their own benefit but for those of the future, weather it was their own loved ones or the hopes for the future. They could have just hid away and waited the war out but they didn't and we benefit today from all of those sacrifices. So, your question could be rephrased as what do we today owe the future generations?

 

[okidoke]

...... unless their beliefs correspond to reality they are merely deluding themselves in order to create meaning......

Whose reality? as an atheist (oh boy, i really don't want to derail this thread) I can still see a believer's POV. They have their belief, their standard of morals and ethics and if they have children, they want to raise those children with the same values. As I've said before, I think life is meaningless myself, but that doesn't mean you can't make it meaningful. Meaningful for you and and I will be different to someone else.

...... when people with religious beliefs demand others follow the rules of their said religion (such as abortion or gay marriage to name just a few) it becomes extremely problematic. The same goes for threatening vulnerable children with threats of hell and enternal damnation if they do not comply. Along with attempting to create meaning, this is another reason that religions were created-as instruments of control and domination.

Well, again talking from a POV of understanding, when you have a "club" there are rules (whether it's book club, religious faith or society in general with its laws) to follow, and if you don't like those rules, you can leave the "club" or petition for a change. It's true that children, unfortunately in some situations, have to abide by what their parents/guardians/leaders say, until they're old enough to make a decision to leave. "Hell and eternal damnation" is not something promoted by all religions, as you would know, and of course some religions can appear more unscrupulous than others. I don't want to get into my opinion of religions here, that's not what this thread is about.

Back to my "whose reality" question, some would argue that submissive men (did I assume correctly regarding your name, or does it refer to your height? apologies if I'm mistaken) are delusional, or everyone trying to live a non-heterosexual life, or everyone with fetishes, etc etc. You get my point. It's all about perspective and making your life meaningful for you. As for making demands on others, the same can be said for many movements today.

I don't think life is meaningless even though in the end we'll all be dead. I have a very complex thought about this but basically our life isn't just about us. It's part of a continuation of millennia of sacrifices to the future. There was a time, tens of thousands of years ago, when our ancestors left the safety of the caves. I believe there were probably huge debates - why leave the caves? It is safer here than outside of it. But others might have said they once left the caves briefly and saw the promise of perhaps even better life though it would be true, the risks to life would be greater. We are the offspring of those who left the caves not the ones who stayed. Many of them must have died being easy prey to animals but our survival is due to the sacrifice they made. Similarly, during World War 2, there were so many who laid down their life not for their own benefit but for those of the future, weather it was their own loved ones or the hopes for the future. They could have just hid away and waited the war out but they didn't and we benefit today from all of those sacrifices. So, your question could be rephrased as what do we today owe the future generations?

Interesting thought. I would argue that people didn't live in caves 24/7 though. They went out and foraged and hunted etc and would've gotten to know their surroundings pretty well, learning where was and wasn't safe, and it was only (I believe) when they learned to sew crops that they stayed in one area for long periods of time and began building their own domiciles and communities.

There are many people who would argue that we aren't benefiting from all the sacrifices made by those that fought, and that those who did sacrifice would be turning in their graves now. I don't know if you can "owe" someone who hasn't given anything to you, like even your children, you don't owe them a good life, you just try to give them a good life, a better life than what you had, or at least a chance at a successful happy life, but that's not "owing" them in my opinion. We could rephrase your question to something like, "What selfless deed can we do so our descendants have a better world?" I guess, and maybe you should start a thread asking such a question Kar

 

[user 190541]

If you believe in neo-Darwinian evolution like most people in the world today, you should understand that we're just a bunch of chemicals arranged by accident through natural processes. If this is the case, then you must accept the implications that life has no meaning, you have no purpose, and your time here is limited. Whether you choose to do something great for mankind or just live a selfish life of indulgence, it won't matter in the end. It's all temporary.

We are indeed essentially a bunch of chemicals arranged by accident through natural processes, but that does not imply that life has no meaning nor that we have no purpose and not even that our time here is limited. On the contrary, the existance of the phenomenal world can only be justified by the existance of will. That will is the immanent principle of reality, the thing from which all appearances stem and the logical nexus that makes the reality of experience possible. We do not see things as they are, and for that reason the whole, vast extent of our experience as living beings, which is subjective, has to be materialized in a way that is understandable to us, therefore in an aprioristic way. This thing, the complete sum of principles according to which reality is created, the very act of creation of reality (as there's no practical distinction between the two), is the result of will. In other words, reality is created in our minds the way it is not by chance, but rather as an act of will, because to build a world of shadows, of appearances, to construct a reality where there's none, or where there's only things-in-themselves, is an act of will. There's no way to explain the lapse that exists between the moment there's nothing and the moment when the world is subjectively created other than to say it's the manifestation of a transcendental principle, capable of materializing reality out of nothing or rather out of things-in-themselves which are in themselves unknowable.

Therefore, life and the world do have a meaning, and purpose. The meaning of both life and the world is to satisfy the dictates of will, the same will that creates the world and makes the experience of life possible in the first place.

 

[sub5male]

"Whose reality? as an atheist (oh boy, i really don't want to derail this thread) I can still see a believer's POV. They have their belief, their standard of morals and ethics and if they have children, they want to raise those children with the same values. As I've said before, I think life is meaningless myself, but that doesn't mean you can't make it meaningful. Meaningful for you and and I will be different to someone else.

Well, again talking from a POV of understanding, when you have a "club" there are rules (whether it's book club, religious faith or society in general with its laws) to follow, and if you don't like those rules, you can leave the "club" or petition for a change. It's true that children, unfortunately in some situations, have to abide by what their parents/guardians/leaders say, until they're old enough to make a decision to leave. "Hell and eternal damnation" is not something promoted by all religions, as you would know, and of course some religions can appear more unscrupulous than others. I don't want to get into my opinion of religions here, that's not what this thread is about.

Back to my "whose reality" question, some would argue that submissive men (did I assume correctly regarding your name, or does it refer to your height? apologies if I'm mistaken) are delusional, or everyone trying to live a non-heterosexual life, or everyone with fetishes, etc etc. You get my point. It's all about perspective and making your life meaningful for you. As for making demands on others, the same can be said for many movements today."

The reality of physical laws for which there has never been even a single bit of emperical evidence for anything "supernatural" let alone an all powerful deity. As also a life long athiest myself too, while I agree that many things are subjective the rules of our physical reality are not among them.

Only today I read about a recent example of the dangers of religious zealots where a public school district board in OK approved the first taxpayer funded religious school in US (I believe it is catholic) which is in direct conflict with the separation of church & state. It will very likely never be allowed to happen but it does highlight the goal of a group of evangelical christians to move the US to a theocracy. The Supreme Court is another example where the judges seem to be more interested in pushing their own personal beliefs rather than ruling based on the laws they are sworn to uphold.

I would prefer to not comment on my own physical apperance but I will say that height is a factor regarding my chosen user name. I am not sure what you mean by "submissive men" though as being submissive or dominant is often not based on a mans physical size or appearance. I have also never heard of a movement to pass laws requiring a non-heterosexual lifestyle. If/when this does happen then it will become as concerning as the religious right is currently.

As far as finding meaning in life, for some people the meaning which they seek may be unavailable to them due to factors which they have no control over so their lives are essentially meaningless. Even having been on both side of the equation I am uncertain which is worse, not having any true meaning or knowing what meaning you need but being unable to obtain it.