Questions :)

[wolfblood]

Hey there, wonderful people!

I'm gonna tell you something that happened to me yesterday and I'm gonna ask for your opinion

I was crossing the street the other day, and I dropped my phone, it somehow fell from my pocket. I didn't realize what happened in that exact very moment. But for some reason I checked my pockets a few seconds later, and I couldn't find my phone. So I turned back looking for it and saw there was a young man that had my phone, he said "here you go", I took my phone and I said "thanks". He walked away. And I felt like I wasn't really grateful towards him. I just said "thanks" trying to be polite but I didn't feel any gratitude.
Isn't that wrong?
It happened to me before. People helping me with something and me not feeling any sort of gratitude.
I felt as if he was forced to give me my phone back. Because he knew it was the right thing to do, not because he really wanted to help.
Is there a difference between wanting to help and helping only because it's the right thing?
For example, doctors... Do they help us because it's their job or because they really care about us?
Why do I have these feelings?
I know the outcome is the same. I lose something, someone finds it for me, I get it back. Everything is fine. Regardless of their motives of helping me.
However, it's like I wish I wouldn't receive any help at all rather than receiving it only because they felt obligated to help.
I want people to feel whatever they're doing. I want people to really want to do the things they're doing. If they don't, their actions feel empty to me.
What would you say to someone like me? Am I ungrateful? Am I crazy?

Looking forward to your opinions.

Whatever you feel, say it.


You're the best!

And I love to ask you guys these kind of questions. Your answers are always fabulous and surprising. I've spent quite some time reading threads on this forum. It's an internet goldmine.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Is there a difference between wanting to help and helping only because it's the right thing?

How was he forced though? If you dropped it, he could have just left it there. I've seen people do that several times and I'm sure it happens more often in bigger cities. If he didn't WANT to help, he wouldn't have picked it up, right? Wanting to do the right thing is still them wanting to help. I wouldn't say that's out of obligation or what have you. Maybe it just becomes second nature at some point that it turns into not a want or a right thing, but just find themselves doing it without even thinking about it.

Do they help us because it's their job or because they really care about us?

Depends on the doctor, to be completely honest. Some definitely do really care and want to help. Others are just in it to be "famous" or for the money.

Why do I have these feelings?

Because you're human and think about things? I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with having those type of feelings. You are looking for a motive in other people's actions. Maybe because you don't expect people to just be nice for the sake of it. Maybe you were hurt in the past and it's second nature for you to look for ulterior motives of someone doing things for you or to help you.

What would you say to someone like me? Am I ungrateful? Am I crazy?

You probably are crazy, but not for that. lol I pretty touched on this in the other responses above, but I don't see you as ungrateful because I'm sure you are happy to have gotten your phone back before it was damaged. I think you're thoughts of the WHY of it just outweigh the gratitude you might feel. Or maybe you feel obligated to feel grateful and that's why you are thinking you are ungrateful because you expect people to do the right thing. I don't know, I could be wrong, I don't know you that well yet.

 

[147]

I want people to feel whatever they're doing

I don't have time for a long response right now, but this sentence stands out to me the most.

Honestly, I think you're just highly idealistic. You're a good soul. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I can think of a spiritual angle to explain this, as well, but I won't get into this publicly.

So, don't stop being idealistic. Just make sure you don't allow it to hurt you too deeply when you see humans act in direct opposition to your ideal. And lead by example. Probably the only thing you can do, anyway

 

[TropicalStarfish]

It's an interesting observation/thought.

I remember a story from a book on nervous illness. I think a mother had postpartum depression. She described to the doctor how, she didn't feel anything towards her child; and how she was scared to kiss her child good night, because she didn't feel any particularly strong motherly affection, or any at all. The doctor's advice was to kiss her child goodnight, whether she 'felt,' anything or not.

Another example would be that of inspiration. It's easy to write when we are inspired or motivated, but, good writers, as far as I know, know that they must write, even if they aren't inspired, and don't feel like it.

The same with gratitude. Imagine some one serves you a nice meal at a restaurant, and is particularly kind and attentive. Imagine you feel no gratitude, you don't feel particularly much of anything, except maybe emptiness. You would still say, "thank-you." You would still tip the person, right?

Or take a marriage for example. You may have lost the spark, lost intimate interest in your partner. This may lead to a drought of passion. But, often times the only way to get the spark back, is by rubbing two sticks together. Trying.

Or take another example: imagine some one is being kind, but, only for ulterior motives. That seems a lot worse to me, than going through the motions, without feeling much behind it.

So, I dunno. For some one like me, I tend not to feel much of anything, except a pervasive sort of disappointed feeling. So I'm not particularly filled with feelings of compassion, gratitude, etc.. But, I still make a point of doing the best I can: being polite, trying to listen, trying to show concern, etc..

I do find it particularly bothersome, and mechanical, but, I think it shows there is more than one facet, more than one aspect to good deeds and good intentions.

Furthermore, passions can run both ways: good/bad. Logic, however, isn't necessarily superior to the passions, but, reason can usually show us the optimal path, if we are honest, logical, and persistent in our reasoning. Like the golden rule, for example: harm others as we'd like to be harmed. Would I like to be harmed? No. Therefore, I should seek not to bring harm to others.

Like you, I think it best to have feeling behind the actions. I miss that. But, it's the actions that count, and the intent. I think that's what matters. The feelings can lead to the good actions. But, I think the good actions/thoughts can lead to the feelings as well.

Or even more simply put: food for example. There are times when we... are not hungry. Perhaps after a great loss, we grieve, and just stop eating. This sort of thing happens. But, we must continue to eat, continue to sustain ourselves, even if the act of eating is devoid of all pleasure and enjoyment, or even difficult and revolting.

So again we can lead and by lead by the passions. But, I think we can also lead and lead by our logic. And one can often follow the other. That's how and why some people swear by the motto: "fake it till you make it." I hate that motto, myself, but, there is some wisdom in it I think. You do the thing, and the true substance of it, follows. Pretend you are punctual and successful long enough, and you may become punctual, dependable, and successful. That sort of thing.

I'm like you though, I'd prefer the substance to be there, rather than the empty action. But, I guess life doesn't always work that way.. Or maybe the action isn't as empty as we imagine it to be, despite it seeming to lack substance.

Did the chicken come first or the egg? Maybe it's that sort of thing. If it's a chicken, you're bound to get some eggs. And if it's an egg, a chicken will follow.. Or one hopes, I suppose.

 

[okidoke]

Sometimes we just over think things. Sometimes our mind isn't focused enough at the time for a more "favourable" response. Sometimes people do good things without any need for rewards because of their subconscious self or they believe in karma. I have done good spontaneous deeds for many people without the slightest thought given to their response because I was busy in my thoughts or needed to get somewhere, but still had a moment for them.

 

[wolfblood]

How was he forced though? If you dropped it, he could have just left it there. I've seen people do that several times and I'm sure it happens more often in bigger cities. If he didn't WANT to help, he wouldn't have picked it up, right? Wanting to do the right thing is still them wanting to help. I wouldn't say that's out of obligation or what have you. Maybe it just becomes second nature at some point that it turns into not a want or a right thing, but just find themselves doing it without even thinking about it.


Depends on the doctor, to be completely honest. Some definitely do really care and want to help. Others are just in it to be "famous" or for the money.



Because you're human and think about things? I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with having those type of feelings. You are looking for a motive in other people's actions. Maybe because you don't expect people to just be nice for the sake of it. Maybe you were hurt in the past and it's second nature for you to look for ulterior motives of someone doing things for you or to help you.


You probably are crazy, but not for that. lol I pretty touched on this in the other responses above, but I don't see you as ungrateful because I'm sure you are happy to have gotten your phone back before it was damaged. I think you're thoughts of the WHY of it just outweigh the gratitude you might feel. Or maybe you feel obligated to feel grateful and that's why you are thinking you are ungrateful because you expect people to do the right thing. I don't know, I could be wrong, I don't know you that well yet.

Sorry only now did I get the time to reply, busy day

So kindness can become like second nature to some people, they do good without even realizing! That's very interesting! I never thought about it that way.

Anyway... I've had a couple of hours to think about why I felt irritated when he picked up my phone and gave it back to me.
I didn't like his attitude, the way he handed me that damn phone with disgust and with some kind of superiority expression on his face. As simple as that. He most probably hated my expression too, because when he made eye contact, he looked disappointed, it was like he wanted to go back and leave that phone where he found it. I would have done the same.
It's a funny thing with people. The moment you see someone, you either get a bad feeling, a good feeling or you're feeling indifferent. I got a bad feeling the moment I laid my eyes on that person.

I no longer feel guilty for not feeling gratitude towards certain people.
It's just the way it is. I'd be happy and grateful to receive help from some people and I'd hate receiving help from other people. It all boils down to the feeling I get when I'm around them, even if it's just for a second.

 

[wolfblood]

I don't have time for a long response right now, but this sentence stands out to me the most.

Honestly, I think you're just highly idealistic. You're a good soul. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I can think of a spiritual angle to explain this, as well, but I won't get into this publicly.

So, don't stop being idealistic. Just make sure you don't allow it to hurt you too deeply when you see humans act in direct opposition to your ideal. And lead by example. Probably the only thing you can do, anyway

Thank you for saying I'm idealistic, but in reality I must say I am not. I'm just grumpy, that's all. And I want everything to change around me while I stay the same. I want people to be perfect and I want myself to be a little devil.
I wouldn't call myself a good soul... at all... : ) , but I have quite a few traits that could be considered useful for this world. However, I prefer people to see my bad side, that way I'd be safe from anyone getting used to me being nice. : )

 

[wolfblood]

Sometimes we just over think things. Sometimes our mind isn't focused enough at the time for a more "favourable" response. Sometimes people do good things without any need for rewards because of their subconscious self or they believe in karma. I have done good spontaneous deeds for many people without the slightest thought given to their response because I was busy in my thoughts or needed to get somewhere, but still had a moment for them.

Yes, I sometimes overthink things. I must get rid of that habit.

 

[wolfblood]

It's an interesting observation/thought.

I remember a story from a book on nervous illness. I think a mother had postpartum depression. She described to the doctor how, she didn't feel anything towards her child; and how she was scared to kiss her child good night, because she didn't feel any particularly strong motherly affection, or any at all. The doctor's advice was to kiss her child goodnight, whether she 'felt,' anything or not.

Another example would be that of inspiration. It's easy to write when we are inspired or motivated, but, good writers, as far as I know, know that they must write, even if they aren't inspired, and don't feel like it.

The same with gratitude. Imagine some one serves you a nice meal at a restaurant, and is particularly kind and attentive. Imagine you feel no gratitude, you don't feel particularly much of anything, except maybe emptiness. You would still say, "thank-you." You would still tip the person, right?

Or take a marriage for example. You may have lost the spark, lost intimate interest in your partner. This may lead to a drought of passion. But, often times the only way to get the spark back, is by rubbing two sticks together. Trying.

Or take another example: imagine some one is being kind, but, only for ulterior motives. That seems a lot worse to me, than going through the motions, without feeling much behind it.

So, I dunno. For some one like me, I tend not to feel much of anything, except a pervasive sort of disappointed feeling. So I'm not particularly filled with feelings of compassion, gratitude, etc.. But, I still make a point of doing the best I can: being polite, trying to listen, trying to show concern, etc..

I do find it particularly bothersome, and mechanical, but, I think it shows there is more than one facet, more than one aspect to good deeds and good intentions.

Furthermore, passions can run both ways: good/bad. Logic, however, isn't necessarily superior to the passions, but, reason can usually show us the optimal path, if we are honest, logical, and persistent in our reasoning. Like the golden rule, for example: harm others as we'd like to be harmed. Would I like to be harmed? No. Therefore, I should seek not to bring harm to others.

Like you, I think it best to have feeling behind the actions. I miss that. But, it's the actions that count, and the intent. I think that's what matters. The feelings can lead to the good actions. But, I think the good actions/thoughts can lead to the feelings as well.

Or even more simply put: food for example. There are times when we... are not hungry. Perhaps after a great loss, we grieve, and just stop eating. This sort of thing happens. But, we must continue to eat, continue to sustain ourselves, even if the act of eating is devoid of all pleasure and enjoyment, or even difficult and revolting.

So again we can lead and by lead by the passions. But, I think we can also lead and lead by our logic. And one can often follow the other. That's how and why some people swear by the motto: "fake it till you make it." I hate that motto, myself, but, there is some wisdom in it I think. You do the thing, and the true substance of it, follows. Pretend you are punctual and successful long enough, and you may become punctual, dependable, and successful. That sort of thing.

I'm like you though, I'd prefer the substance to be there, rather than the empty action. But, I guess life doesn't always work that way.. Or maybe the action isn't as empty as we imagine it to be, despite it seeming to lack substance.

Did the chicken come first or the egg? Maybe it's that sort of thing. If it's a chicken, you're bound to get some eggs. And if it's an egg, a chicken will follow.. Or one hopes, I suppose.

True... I'm sure there's substance behind every action, it's just that I don't always see it. And that's my problem not theirs. Thank you for taking the time to reply! The things you say are very complex. Love that. Forgive me I will keep my reply short, I'm not one of many words, although I wish I was.

"Fake it 'till you make it" never worked out for me either, I've tried it.
But maybe we don't have to fake anything anyway, in order to get the results we want, we just have to be ourselves and by doing that, we'd probably get the opposite of what we want, but then we'd realize that's ok too. Life is all about accepting whatever happens to us, isn't it? The moment we struggle to get out of different situations, things become harder to manage.
And now I don't even know what I'm talking about

I should probably go back to study.