Responding to violence/mugging?

[TheSolitaryMan]

I caught an interesting documentary recently on mugging. It was both from the POV of ex-criminals and victims.

The ex-muggers seemed to have a very relaxed and ******* attitude towards it in general, which surprised me seeing as they'd had time to reflect on what they'd done. They expressed more concern for other would-be muggers than victims.

The victims had some pretty horrendous stories though.

There was a guy who was mugged in his teens by two boys on a bus. He gave them everything they wanted, then they decided to methodically cut his face up with a broken bottle regardless, while he just sat there as they did it. Then there was a woman who was left in a coma (and still has trouble remembering things) when some moron beat her senseless even after she gave her valuables up.

Recently I saw in the news that there was a London gang brought to justice that would mug people just so they could beat the **** out of them for "fun", not actually for their possessions. People have always had a sadistic side, but do you think it's more pronounced nowadays? In my mind I think it is, since the law doesn't really crack down on these people much.

This got me thinking though, what would I do if I was mugged? And I think I've changed my attitude from how it's always been. Previously I'd never seen the sense in putting myself in danger over my goods, but now...

Unless the other guy has a gun, several friends or is clearly physically too much for me, I think I'd actually resist now. I mean, if it's quite possible the ******* is going to stab, cut, beat me or whatever regardless of what I do peacefully, I can't see how resisting is going to make that any worse.

I can punch pretty fast and hard, quick enough to perhaps take someone off guard when I reach for my "wallet". I'm not some sort of huge, burly brute or ninja, but I took martial arts classes a while back and I'd say I'm a strong person.

I'm not sure how I'd handle the shock mentally, that's the only thing. I don't know if I would "freeze up" or not, but at the same time I was able to hit people in the past when they physically intimidated me, so maybe I could.

Of course, this is all theorising. It's just a scenario I figure it's wise to be prepared for.

I'm sat on the fence ultimately over whether resisting would give me more of a risk of getting stabbed or actually result in less risk of harm, because the other guy may run off or get hurt before it comes to that. I remember seeing an article a while back in which an amateur boxer hospitalised a whole gang of thugs, which gave me a good chuckle.

What would you do in such a situation?

 

[kamya]

I've never been one to give up my goods to stay out of harms way. I was always scrappy and would get in fights over any kind of disrespect when I was in grade school. I'm now a pretty calm guy and I avoid confrontation if I can, but I'm still no pushover. In high school and even now there are times I've had to assert the idea that I'm not going to get ****** with. Usually by just physically (and without a word) knocking someone on their ass and staring at them. Seems to work.

If you give them an inch, they will take a mile. Don't give them a ******* inch.

 

[SophiaGrace]

Give them your possessions and RUN!

 

[Felix]

I guess I'm a "giver", I always gave away my money to this guys...

And it's most likely I would have been able to kick their ***** (I'm very tall) but I avoided confrontation. It sucks to have to give your money, but you never know if he has a hidden weapon or maybe you hit him and he falls and dies... Anything could happen so i always tried to do what seemed more safe, just gave them what they wanted.

 

[SophiaGrace]

Solitary, if you hit him and he isn't a threat to you, then you will be charged with assault.

If you believe you are in danger, and he has a knife or is trying to hit you, then you can defend yourself and will not be charged.

 

[Skorian]

I caught an interesting documentary recently on mugging. It was both from the POV of ex-criminals and victims.

What is it?

The ex-muggers seemed to have a very relaxed and ******* attitude towards it in general, which surprised me seeing as they'd had time to reflect on what they'd done. They expressed more concern for other would-be muggers than victims.

The victims had some pretty horrendous stories though.

There was a guy who was mugged in his teens by two boys on a bus. He gave them everything they wanted, then they decided to methodically cut his face up with a broken bottle regardless, while he just sat there as they did it. Then there was a woman who was left in a coma (and still has trouble remembering things) when some moron beat her senseless even after she gave her valuables up.

Ya, people definitely make themselves into victims. There is a point where just being limp is messed up. Some species like a turtle can play dead and be ok. Others end up lunch.

Recently I saw in the news that there was a London gang brought to justice that would mug people just so they could beat the **** out of them for "fun", not actually for their possessions. People have always had a sadistic side, but do you think it's more pronounced nowadays? In my mind I think it is, since the law doesn't really crack down on these people much.

How can you claim the law doesn't crack down? The gang was brought to justice. You can't convict people before gathering evidence to convict.

This got me thinking though, what would I do if I was mugged? And I think I've changed my attitude from how it's always been. Previously I'd never seen the sense in putting myself in danger over my goods, but now...

Every person is different, but acting like a limp noodle invites people to go further then just taking valuables.

Unless the other guy has a gun, several friends or is clearly physically too much for me, I think I'd actually resist now. I mean, if it's quite possible the ******* is going to stab, cut, beat me or whatever regardless of what I do peacefully, I can't see how resisting is going to make that any worse.

I think it is a matter of judging a situation. The worst thing you could do is provoke people into going further, but you also don't want to be seen as lunch meat.

I can punch pretty fast and hard, quick enough to perhaps take someone off guard when I reach for my "wallet". I'm not some sort of huge, burly brute or ninja, but I took martial arts classes a while back and I'd say I'm a strong person.

You better be sure you know what you are doing. If you are wrong. Some might be cowards and want an easy target so run. Others might have been in prison and go further as a result of how you respond.

I'm not sure how I'd handle the shock mentally, that's the only thing. I don't know if I would "freeze up" or not, but at the same time I was able to hit people in the past when they physically intimidated me, so maybe I could.

Of course, this is all theorising. It's just a scenario I figure it's wise to be prepared for.

I'm sat on the fence ultimately over whether resisting would give me more of a risk of getting stabbed or actually result in less risk of harm, because the other guy may run off or get hurt before it comes to that. I remember seeing an article a while back in which an amateur boxer hospitalized a whole gang of thugs, which gave me a good chuckle.

What would you do in such a situation?

I think you would need to judge the situation when it happened. You will never be able to guess what could happen, until it does. If you prepare for something to fit what is in your head and find it doesn't that alone could cause problems.

I totally disagree with the fight or flight theory. Most people who are anxious go to extremes. They either over react or under react. Both of which would be disastrous. To hunt as our ancestors did they would have needed to be calm. Otherwise it is likely they would just stand there as their prey gored them or stab wildly and miss. People don't usually seem to run when they are anxious, they freeze up with their mind going a mile a minute. Totally useless behavior.

Solitary, if you hit him and he isn't a threat to you, then you will be charged with assault.

Like they will just stand there and wait for the police? Like they dare turn you in?

In the real world police sometimes beat up criminals themselves. This isn't fiction here. Police brutality is not unknown. I have a brother that worked in a mission down in California and saw and heard of things happening to innocent people.

If you believe you are in danger, and he has a knife or is trying to hit you, then you can defend yourself and will not be charged.

 

[Ak5]

I plan on applying for a concealed weapons permit and buy my own weapon once I'm 18; don't know if they allow it at 18 though, but I figure since at that age you're an "adult".

Depends on the strength of the person if you should fight or flee. Anything can be used as a weapon, but if you still know you won't be able to win the fight, give him/her/them your stuff, it's best you could do; or try to run.

 

[meekthoughts]

I'd give my money to them, no resistance. I'm not the courageous or brave type at all. xD

But if they tried to take, say my (future) wedding ring or important memento, I'd probably hesitate and try to think a way out of the situation. Then again, under pressure my mind goes blank so that'll fail miserably.

Even though I'm sort of a pushover, I've never actually been taken advantage of like that. Except for that one time I sold a textbook to a guy I knew and he never paid me afterwards. :\ I managed the courage to ask for the money once, but he still never paid up and I never asked again..

 

[Chasm]

i would fight
even if i didnt mean 2 i would end up fighting anyway
bcuz it would piss me off
the only way i wouldnt fight is if i knew 4 sure i could get in my car
in that case id run 2 get in the car so i could run him over
it would just hella piss me off if some1 tried 2 do that crap 2 me

 

[IgnoredOne]

Always be willing to provide your wallet and stab at the same time - remember that the eye follows motion, and as such, play to expectations of the mugger that you will not resist. Do not stop stabbing unless you are certain the target is neutralized, and be comfortable in the knowledge that at extreme close range, a knife is probably as lethal if not more so than a gun. It depends on the laws of your particular country and state, but usually you can claim self-defense with ease so as long as you claim that you felt that your life was threatened. Ultimately, though, its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Practice this reflex. The training is everything. The mental acceptance that neutralization may involve taking a human life is also fundamentally necessary. If you have a CCW license, then you would be armed with a gun and your response should be practiced and trained accordingly, of course.

Ideally, avoid getting mugged in the first place. Think as a mugger - what would you do if you were a criminal with confidence that you could overpower your target? Move in groups, choose lighted areas, stay where being isolated is difficult. Never ever, ever depend on bystanders, however. Really, by the time that you are attacked, you are more than likely screwed: you will be mugged, beaten, raped, etc. The advantage of initiative and surprise is usually too much for most people to overcome.

I am usually armed, and keep an eye open on anything that can be used as a weapon and try to have good situational awareness, but you probably will never find me outside of my gated complex after it gets really dark without being in a car, or in a monitored/camera-secured area for myself AND my car. Because frankly, your car is itself a pretty valuable target and much more likely to be subject to attack.

This is also why I love my car

I've been in some of the most criminal areas and I've never been successfully assaulted. Scammed, but never attacked. Honestly, a lot of people are just careless and have an optimistic notion of their safety that's ridiculous.

 

[Bread]

Give them your possessions and RUN!

This, pretty much. No sense dying for a few measly euros.

If they come at you anyway and flight is impossible, then there's no shame in using every dirty trick in the book to survive. No gentlemen's rules of engagement in do or die situations. Still, best to get the hell out of there if you can.

I recall one instance when I was assaulted unprovoked in my neighbourhood, but I got away with just a kick in the stomach. That is, I got kicked in the stomach, so I guess I could count myself lucky?

 

[Skorian]

Always be willing to provide your wallet and stab at the same time - remember that the eye follows motion, and as such, play to expectations of the mugger that you will not resist. Do not stop stabbing unless you are certain the target is neutralized, and be comfortable in the knowledge that at extreme close range, a knife is probably as lethal if not more so than a gun. It depends on the laws of your particular country and state, but usually you can claim self-defense with ease so as long as you claim that you felt that your life was threatened. Ultimately, though, its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Dude, you would kill someone? Not that I am surprised. Why not look into none lethal methods of self defense? Weapons that people carry tend to be used against them, not in their defense. Someone who is desperate enough to go around robbing, beating people, or worse is much more ready to cause you harm then most people would do back. Even if you think you would be ready. Talk to local law enforcement. Most are smart enough to know that statistically weapons are used against the victim.

Practice this reflex. The training is everything. The mental acceptance that neutralization may involve taking a human life is also fundamentally necessary. If you have a CCW license, then you would be armed with a gun and your response should be practiced and trained accordingly, of course.

And the fact remains that most people have someone who needs or cares about them. So even if someone is a drug addict looking for money for another hit, do they really deserve death? Is that really an answer?

Ideally, avoid getting mugged in the first place. Think as a mugger - what would you do if you were a criminal with confidence that you could overpower your target? Move in groups, choose lighted areas, stay where being isolated is difficult. Never ever, ever depend on bystanders, however. Really, by the time that you are attacked, you are more than likely screwed: you will be mugged, beaten, raped, etc. The advantage of initiative and surprise is usually too much for most people to overcome.

I am usually armed, and keep an eye open on anything that can be used as a weapon and try to have good situational awareness, but you probably will never find me outside of my gated complex after it gets really dark without being in a car, or in a monitored/camera-secured area for myself AND my car. Because frankly, your car is itself a pretty valuable target and much more likely to be subject to attack.

Well I am lucky. I can go anywhere any time of day and be safe.

I would recommend mace, a taser, a black jack, a baton, or some other blunt object before something like a knife. You could end up the victim to whatever you carry. Why even think about killing people?

This is also why I love my car

I've been in some of the most criminal areas and I've never been successfully assaulted. Scammed, but never attacked. Honestly, a lot of people are just careless and have an optimistic notion of their safety that's ridiculous.

No argument there.

The only counter to using none lethal force is the fact that if you beat someone near to death they can press charges and sue for damages. It depends if what you do is so bad that even if they get charged with something if what you do to them is worse then their own crime. Otherwise they would be stupid to turn you in.

So ya, I am a bleeding heart liberal. Sue me.

 

[IgnoredOne]

Dude, you would kill someone? Not that I am surprised. Why not look into none lethal methods of self defense? Weapons that people carry tend to be used against them, not in their defense. Someone who is desperate enough to go around robbing, beating people, or worse is much more ready to cause you harm then most people would do back. Even if you think you would be ready. Talk to local law enforcement. Most are smart enough to know that statistically

Haha at "would."

My sole concern is efficacy. I really don't know if a drug addict who's already thrown away his life is deserving of life, but I am certainly not going to risk my life to find out about that. And thank you; I am actually rather intimately friendly with local law enforcement. In fact, intimate might be literal in some cases Two of my exes were daughters of police officers. If there was a way that I could nonlethally cause someone's occipital lobe to abruptly and nonlethally stop functioning, then I would be happy to utilize that. Unfortunately, I only know the magical powers of the Greater Invocation of the .45 Caliber which can indeed perform that function - minus the 'nonlethal' part.

Knives offer substantially more stopping power for the weight and concealment than most blunt objects. Furthermore, its more reasonable to have one or even two knives on yourself at all times, than it is to have a crowbar on yourself at all times unless you have an HEV suit.

Please, though, feel free to put your own life at risk.

The word that you're looking here isn't 'bleeding heart liberal.' It starts instead with an 'i' and ends in an 't.'

 

[Skorian]

Haha at "would."

My sole concern is efficacy. I really don't know if a drug addict who's already thrown away his life is deserving of life, but I am certainly not going to risk my life to find out about that. And thank you; I am actually rather intimately friendly with local law enforcement. In fact, intimate might be literal in some cases Two of my exes were daughters of police officers.

Please, though, feel free to put your own life at risk.

The word that you're looking here isn't 'bleeding heart liberal.' It starts instead with an 'i' and ends in an 't.'

So a drug addicts life is already over? Granted I don't understand it. Never even seen any drug other then tobacco, alcohol, and legal drugs. I don't even like alcohol. But still. This is why you look like Dexter to me.

Thank you.

I would much rather be an idiot, then a psycho.

 

[Ian Haines]

Hi...

I used to carry small amounts of sand in my jacket pockets. If I was confronted by trouble, I'd lick the head of my fist and push my hands into those pockets, sticking huge amounts of the sand to the front of the fists. Then, even if I deliberately fell short in a punch, or even did crosses and hooks, dozens of particles of sand would repeatedly be flicked into the eyes (yes, even allowing for the blinking reflex) of the other guy! Once the sand was in his eyes, I was the basher and he was my most recent biological science project. I've only ever used it twice, but those men will remember it for the rest of their lives. I asked one of those for a light for my cigarette, once, and he didn't even remember me.

I also spent a good few years punching (lightly thrown) stones and cricket balls out of the air, in order to pulp incoming fists with my own: I even gave it a name - "The Skeet" and, sometimes, "The Clay Shoot". I worked in a shop, back then, and the boss gave me a serious telling off for having yellow/blue/black bruising on my knuckles and fingers while serving customers!

In the UK, you can carry precisely NOTHING! No pen-knives, no lock knives, no spiked/pointed/sharp-edged items or devices. If you are in a car and a Swiss Army knife is found in your glove box, you're instantly arrested. If you can't explain the presence of anything even remotely similar (and you have to be very convincing) you're arrested on the spot for being in possession of an offensive weapon. Nunchaku? Yes, if you're on your way to a Martial Arts lesson, or going home after one. If you can't prove that, and this includes even when the nunchaku are in a closed case, you're arrested on the spot. Even OWNING a switchblade, butterfly knife or throwing star, here, in your home, is an offence and you'll be arrested for it...believe me!

Our air rifles cannot be ordered by post or online. You have to get transport and find a registered gun dealer. If I sell an air rifle to a friend or neighbour and the Police find out, I get a knock on my door, and so does the guy who bought the rifle. That includes air rifles at 12 foot-pounds, and pistols at half of that. If you've doctored an air rifle or pistol, even if you never use it...automatic arrest on the Police finding it in your HOME! In the street...a slingshot? A catapult, maybe? Instant, automatic arrest!

EVERYTHING INVOLVED IS ALWAYS CONFISCATED! Then, if the person tries to recover it from a Police station, OOPS...it appears to have gone missing and they don't know what to do! There is no recourse in British Law under those circumstances.

If replica firearms exist anywhere in the UK, they must be made bright blue, green or orange. If you paint a freshly bought replica firearm any other colour, here, it's a heavy fine, or imprisonment - the law states that any attempt to make a fake firearm appear more real than it seemed at the time of the acquisition of it...is an arrestable and imprisonable offence. TOY GUNS cannot be carried unless you can prove it's been bought for a child, as a gift - and, if the toy gun is still in unbroken packaging and you have a receipt for that day's purchase of it.

If we are attacked, we are allowed the use of absolutely nothing if it's even just casually mentioned in the law about offensive weapons. The definition of offensive weapon is anything that has been "...made, or adapted for use, as a weapon." That means that, if we're caught in an argument with a rolled up newspaper, a bottle of milk or a walking stick above the height of our shoulders, we will be arrested for "attempted assault", "disturbing the peace" or "causing an affray"!

We are allowed only the use of REASONABLE FORCE and we must be very, very careful about what reasonable force we apply, or we'll be arrested and the mugger...IS NOT! If he has a knife and we have a machette (older English spelling...sorry!), we can do nothing unless we are prepared to be arrested and charged with "occasioning actual bodily harm", or outright "assault" - even "attempted murder"!

Americans are so much more fortunate in this area of life!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

PLEASE COME AND TAKE OVER THE UK!

INVADE US AND SAVE US FROM THIS MADNESS!

Ian.

 

[Skorian]

Hmmmmm.

 

[Ian Haines]

I wish I'd said that!

 

[Callie]

Um.... wtf

 

[IgnoredOne]

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

PLEASE COME AND TAKE OVER THE UK!

INVADE US AND SAVE US FROM THIS MADNESS!

Ian.

We would love to, but you have managed to be one of the few countries with an even higher debt ratio to GDP than the US. A dubious accomplishment as we can't afford to bail you out

 

[Sci-Fi]

There was an article about this recently, and they said exactly what SophiaGrace said, hand over your possessions and run. If a person was going to shoot you they would do it no matter what you did, at least by running you lessen the change of serious injuring and give them a moving target which is harder to hit.