Sexuality

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

I'm not questioning your morality, nor your clearly humanist and caring view of the world. Just that you have those traits because of your own character, not thanks to a book or a religion.

I would suggest any further discussion in this direction be carried out elsewhere rather than derail the thread. But again i have to state for clarity:

I am in no way disparaging you as a person. Because from what i've read you are a decent human being. It is merely your religious beliefs i have an issue with, not you yourself.

And that is surely your problem, not mine. It's a question of intolerance, not religion.

I am a liberal Episcopalian. What we believe is what I've stated here. We have gay ministers. We have gay members. We don't marry gay people, but we bless them on their lifelong journey together. It is a beautiful thing.

Your clear hatred of gay people has something to do with your limited world view, because of your religion, rather than a question of belief. I am a Christian, but I support gay rights...and I am not alone in that.

Like I said, I don't want to debate it. I've already said far too much. But before you post fingers at me for being flawed, point some fingers back at yourself, because this is a thread about someone who may be gay...and he doesn't need your intolerance.

 

[Spiderpope]

I'm not questioning your morality, nor your clearly humanist and caring view of the world. Just that you have those traits because of your own character, not thanks to a book or a religion.

I would suggest any further discussion in this direction be carried out elsewhere rather than derail the thread. But again i have to state for clarity:

I am in no way disparaging you as a person. Because from what i've read you are a decent human being. It is merely your religious beliefs i have an issue with, not you yourself.

And that is surely your problem, not mine. It's a question of intolerance, not religion.

I am a liberal Episcopalian. What we believe is what I've stated here. We have gay ministers. We have gay members. We don't marry gay people, but we bless them on their lifelong journey together. It is a beautiful thing.

Your clear hatred of gay people has something to do with your limited world view, because of your religion, rather than a question of belief. I am a Christian, but I support gay rights...and I am not alone in that.

Like I said, I don't want to debate it. I've already said far too much. But before you post fingers at me for being flawed, point some fingers back at yourself, because this is a thread about someone who may be gay...and he doesn't need your intolerance.

I think you've grasped hold of the wrong end of the stick. Re-read what i've said in this thread.

Firstly, i'm an atheist. Hence why i find the Bible a disgusting piece of hate literature and can quote the horrific things it says about homosexuality.

Secondly, i have no problem with gay people at all. I've always supported universal human rights, which includes every homosexual on the planet have the right to choose to marry who ever they wish.

Thirdly, I did not point fingers at you being flawed, i corrected your mistake of claiming the Bible says nothing bad about homosexuality. I have issues with your religion, not you.

So it is indeed a question of intolerance, that intolerance being 2000+ years of abrahamic religions telling people they will go to hell for something that is completely natural.

Not to be rude, but please try to read what people actually write.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Whoa...good lord. I think this was a huge misunderstanding.

First off, I respect that you're an atheist. Half of my friends are atheists. I used to be agnostic, but went back to Christianity, because I do believe in God. That was my decision. I have no issue with you not believing in God.

Second, I don't believe everything in the bible is true. I think of the bible as a loose set of constructed rules that try to make you lead a better life, but not everything is true, and certainly A LOT is outdated. Especially the passages of homosexuality. I believe it was written in a time that supported that thinking, but we aren't part of that society anymore.

I'm really glad you support universal human rights. Me too. I am a member of several human rights organizations, and I've done a lot of work towards LGBT groups and helping spread the message of love. I am relieved that Prop Hate and DOMA were struck down recently...but there is still a lot of work to be done.

And you also are assuming that it is my religion. Let me say that there are all sorts of different types of Christianity. I am part of a liberal branch of Christianity that supports gay rights and doesn't believe that gay people are sinning. When you talk about "my religion", you actually are talking about someone else.

Either way, this has gone way off topic...and discussions of religious debate are frowned on here, so I'd really like this to stop here. Let's get back to the OP, who may or may not be bi...but if he is, he is still a wonderful, beautiful human being.

 

[Spiderpope]

Whoa...good lord. I think this was a huge misunderstanding.

Yeah, it really was. And for the sake of the topic creator i agree, and also want to reiterate:
There is nothing wrong in any way, shape or form with homosexuality or homosexual thoughts and desires. It is present throughout the animal kingdom, it's a perfectly normal part of human sexuality.

There is absolutely nothing to feel disgusted about, nor does it mean you need to make radical life changes because of a few lusty thoughts. Though few will admit it, most men and women have had crushes on members of the same sex. I've only ever slept with women (well woman) and would be considered "straight", but if John Barrowman flirted with me, well i can't say what might happen.

 

[Felix]

The inner struggle comes when you have homosexual desires and you're are homophobic.

What to do then? You either change your morals or repress those desires for as long as you can...

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

The inner struggle comes when you have homosexual desires and you're are homophobic.

What to do then? You either change your morals or repress those desires for as long as you can...

Nobody is born homophobic. It's always a learned condition.

 

[Rosebolt]

Nobody is born homophobic. It's always a learned condition.

A condition? Really?

..

Wow..

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Nobody is born homophobic. It's always a learned condition.

A condition? Really?

..

Wow..

Being terrified of homosexuality is something that is learned from your parents. Nobody is born a bigot.

 

[Spiderpope]

Nobody is born homophobic. It's always a learned condition.

A condition? Really?

..

Wow..

Yes really. Homosexuality exists throughout the animal kingdom, it can be observed in virtually every mammalian species along with several avian species. Likewise it's been present in humanity since the very beginning.

Homophobia is a human invention, it's not something that naturally occurs.

 

[Rosebolt]

Yes really. Homosexuality exists throughout the animal kingdom, it can be observed in virtually every mammalian species along with several avian species. Likewise it's been present in humanity since the very beginning.

Homophobia is a human invention, it's not something that naturally occurs.

That was kind of my point, Homophobia is no condition whatsoever. Just the bitterness of people leading them in their ideals.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Yes really. Homosexuality exists throughout the animal kingdom, it can be observed in virtually every mammalian species along with several avian species. Likewise it's been present in humanity since the very beginning.

Homophobia is a human invention, it's not something that naturally occurs.

That was kind of my point, Homophobia is no condition whatsoever. Just the bitterness of people leading them in their ideals.

I didn't know what else to label it. I wasn't labeling it as anything good.

Should I have called it a sickness? That's probably more accurate. Or maybe a deviance?

 

[quintus]

Perhaps we could agree to: people are conditioned to be homophobic?

 

[nerdygirl]

Spiderpope, the Bible DOESN'T say anything bad about homosexuality. I'd appreciate it if you would stop bringing Christianity into this thread. If you want to debate religion, please do it elsewhere.

 

[Evil_Genius]

Actually it sort of does - "A man who layeth with another man should be stoned." "A man should not layeth with another man lest he sees his nakedness." Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

However I don't think an unintentionally amusing extremist argument I heard from gay Christians quite works. I don't think when Jesus said 'get behind me satan' I don't think that's tacit new testament approval for buggery.

As to Aussie's quandry. Be open, be honest, be happy and accept that you are who you are and like who and what you like and try not to get hung up in possible iron clad singular paths ahead of you and that labels are only good on beer bottles.

 

[Spiderpope]

Spiderpope, the Bible DOESN'T say anything bad about homosexuality. I'd appreciate it if you would stop bringing Christianity into this thread. If you want to debate religion, please do it elsewhere.

I see no reason to repeat myself. I provided the passages, pick up your Bible and actually read it before making claims on what it does and does not contain.

Nor was i debating religion, that issue arose out of a misunderstanding between myself and LeaningIntoTheMuse, something we have since rectified. I'd appreciate it if you didn't attempt to re-open an already settled argument.