ardour said:
Very good advice.
Not sure I agree with the idea of perpetually having to work on oneself to be worthy though. Obviously there has to be something going on in your life (and between the ears) but when are you good enough? I notice a lot of men who aren't particularly well read without anything important to say happily in relationships. Women like them for reasons that are difficult to pin down.
Some of us just aren't comfortable with ourselves and may never be.
Thank you. The thing is, I almost feel foolish giving advice when I haven't gotten a girlfriend, let alone one that I actually want, myself. But, I can tell you what DOESN'T work because I've experienced that. I can tell you what naivete in this area feels like and how it clouds our perceptions of what to do, but that it doesn't have to be one's natural state.
So when I give advice on this topic, I'm talking to myself as much as anyone. I'm trying to relate what I've learned so far in my research and experience trying to figure this out. I am not content with the results I've gotten, and am trying to learn how to do better than this. I think I can do it, because I didn't like what I was getting when I thought I couldn't do it so I figure I might as well try believing something that will help instead of hurt me.
I don't know if you have to perpetually work on yourself - your question, "when are you good enough?" is a question I ask myself all the time. I suppose the answer to that is when you are content with what you get because it is what you wanted. I try to figure out what works by looking at people who have what I want and figuring out what they are doing that I am not doing.
Here is what I've observed so far:
You could just trust luck to deliver someone (which I don't), or to be macho, "cool", "bad"....but you know how I feel about that. I'm guessing these men that you described who are not particularly well-read nor have anything important to say either lucked out and met someone by chance, were settled for by the woman they are with, or they are of the macho, brutish variety.
I think you have to look decent, but as long as you are at least somewhat healthy and making an honest effort, you are usually good enough that looks aren't your problem. With money, I think you just have to have an at least semi-respectable job. You don't need to be rich and you don't need a fancy car. But you do need enough that you can go places and do things. You need enough that you are at least somewhat in control of the basics in your life. As far as social skills go, you don't have to be a full-on extrovert, you don't have to be a party animal. I'm not, myself. But it helps to be friendly, to smile, laugh, joke around, remember people's names and maybe something about them like something they are into, little things like that. Just tell yourself you are cool. Be a friend to yourself.
What I do think is important, is that you have to be interesting in some way. You have to be going for something. It doesn't have to be president of a company or a position on a professional sports team. It just means you have to have a niche of some sort, you have to have a solid sense of your identity, who you are. You can't just be a formless blob that is okay with whatever and not really into anything. This is where hobbies/passions/interests come into play. People seem to like people who are making progress of some kind, even if it's something simple. Also, it can help to know a lot about a variety of topics, or to be well-read. It helps to have a lot to think about and talk about so you can keep conversations flowing. It doesn't feel like endless work, though, when these are things you would be doing anyway because you are actually interested in them.
Then there are the things to avoid: calling attention to negative traits (or at least traits that most consider negative whether you agree or not, like the virginity issue), calling attention to any sort of failures or shortcomings, complaining, worrying, being indecisive, having an excessive amount of self-doubt, being overly self-deprecating (you might want to just totally avoid this), not being interested in anything or doing anything, being rude or gross, and having temper outbursts (I've really messed up that one). Basically you want to keep cool, calm, and collected.
I'm not always comfortable with myself either, but I am trying because I know that who I was before wasn't able to get what I wanted, so I questioned who I was and thought about what I wanted to get and tried to figure out how I need to be to get what I want. I don't think you have to completely throw who you are out, unless your personality is severely wrong but I don't think that's likely. I just think you can keep some things, get rid of others, and add some new stuff that will help you.
VanillaCreme said:
Yeah, can't say I agree with that either. All that really tells me is that a person just may not like who they are. Because bettering ourselves should be self-improvement for our own sake. Not to be worthy for someone else. If someone doesn't think I'm worthy because I'm not this or that, sorry, there's the door. Go find someone who you think it worthy enough. I like myself how I am, and I'm not going to change for the sole reason of trying to being worthy for someone else's liking.
I think it is. If it's helping you get where you want to go then it's helping you for your own sake in a way. I also just feel like the whole being worthy thing, it varies. I think that one person who was deemed unworthy could have very well been worthy, if only they did something differently. It could be a lot of things, but it could just be by a little bit. In my case, the fixed mindset I had as a kid through my mid-20s that I am still fighting with, royally screwed me over - "I am average. I can't do this. I can't do that. I can only do these things and only so well so there's no point in trying very hard to get better or explore something outside of my identity, I either have it or I don't. This is the kind of person I am and it can't change and I should just be grateful it isn't worse." I believe that early mindset set me up for all of my major failures. What if I grew up believing something else? I think I could have been worthy because my personality would have been stronger and more interesting.
I understand what you're saying and there's some truth to it, definitely. But that assumes that who we think is "ourselves" is always correct and people can change a lot over the course of their lives. Also, I think that if one is completely unwilling to consider changing anything, they may find themselves incompatible with the ones they want who they very well may have been compatible with if they were just a little bit different. Worse, they may find themselves incompatible with almost anybody and have to go through a lot more loneliness and it never had to be that way.
