Sometimes it is not worth helping people

[user 176211]

I just need to vent this because I really don't have anyone to speak to about it.

Im about to quit my career of 7 years. I chose to do it because I am extremely skilled at it. I have put in the kind of work that they say you should when you want to master something. I love to do it. I don't want to sound or come off as arrogant- but I am VERY good at it because I love it a lot.

But leadership at my job has robbed me of loving my role because they refuse to promote me and pay me according to the level of responsibility that continuously grows for me every year. Every year, more work, more responsibility. I am constantly made to report to people in the department who are ALREADY managers and know nothing of my job. So I end ups having to TEACH them what I do. And at the end of the year, since my team reports to me, and I report to this manager, THAT manager gets a glowing review about how well *I* run MY team. I made the choice to no longer allow myself to be abused. This is something I have come to peace with.

One of my frustrations comes from a close friend who works for me on my team. I have worked very closely with her for 5 of these past 7 years. This is a person who I took in when they knew nothing of this world. Knew nothing of this job. I nurtured her. I taught her. I encouraged her. I helped her. In a manner of speaking, I carried this person every single day for 5 years. She is a talented person, but has confidence issues that she will now have to confront on her own in my absence. She no longer has me to hide behind or stand up for her or fight her battles for. These are all normal everyday things people have to do for themselves. But I view this person like family.

I am noticing that as I get increasingly closer to my end date, this person has made the decision to be increasingly backhanded and passive aggressive with me. I can certainly understand if they are processing this big change in their job and life in their own way. However, it is being done in a way where this person is seemingly trying to take the benefit of the doubt from me. She has had a front row seat for 5 years to this job jacking me around and not paying me properly and promoting me properly. She has seem be struggle while juggling taking care of my elderly parents and trying to make my career work. But when I vent or complain, she seemingly sticks up for the department we work.

For example- last month, there was a department wide meeting where they announced the departure of SEVERAL key players in the department. You see, they're taking advantage of MANY talented employees, not just me. So there is an exodus of highly skilled employees leaving, and I am one of them. They didn't acknowledge me in that meeting, and I pointed it out. Today, the department manager, who has been ignoring my requests for support and help and LITERALLY ignoring me, my messages and emails, and then went on vacation while I agreed to stay till the end of this major project reached out to me. In an act of hypocrisy, this manager tells me that she's going to miss me and wants to connect with me one time before I leave for good next week.

I told this to my friend/co worker. She told me that first I was mad that I was not acknowledged publicly when they announced the departing associates. And that now I'm mad that the manager wants to talk to me.
For perspective, BOTH of those statements can be offensive. Yes, I wasn't acknowledged - and Yes, now after not acknowledging me and ignoring me, this manager wants to see me off. I don't understand the problem here. They're not mutually exclusive.

So what bothers me, and the bottom line to this whole post, god bless you if you have made it this far, is that this friend of mine can't see things from my point of view. I am in a fight for my life because I want to have a good life. I spent the years it took to master my craft, and I deserve to get paid for it- and the pay is justified for not only the quality of my work, but for the levels that I have gone above and beyond for my job. But this same friend isn't fighting for the same things as me.

-I would like to own a home one day. This friend has a wealthy and successful husband who C-U-S-T-O-M built their home and paid it off in less than 4 years
-I am struggling to pay rent and buy groceries. I don't tell anyone, but sometimes I eat tuna cans and crackers to get by until payday. This friend has F-I-V-E luxury cars in her driveway and garage.
-When work is done, I have to sit in a dark room with no sound until the world stops spinning. This friend takes vacation time in the middle of some of the most major projects when I need her.
-When I draw up plans for our projects, this friend goes against them if they feel like hard work. And then when I have trouble executing the project because of her lack of cooperation, and other officials have to step in, she starts cooperating and sees how easy my plan originally was, so the project looks like it only works when others step in.
-When I put in my notice to quit my job, she applied to a different position outside of the team (same dept) because she was afraid to take on the same job without me there to guide and protect her.

Its not until I write this out that I can truly "step away from the forest" and see how much it seems that this person just takes advantage of me, and doesn't actually REALLY care about how I feel and how dejected and tired and at the end of my rope I really am. Notice how many times I refer to the person as my friend. But when I write out the situations, they read like scenarios in an itemized list of ways that people take advantage of you.

This is my vow that I will never lift another finger to help another person in my life. I mean that. I mean that if I see someone struggling, I can comfortably now look the other way. Because right now, as I hang on by the last thread of my will, that is exactly what the world is doing to me. Things are tough and we all struggle. And I get that now. I never got anything from working hard or helping others. Its not a requirement to be a good person. A good person can keep to themselves and not help others. Just don't harm others. That's all.

I feel better now that I wrote this.

 

[Finished]

I'm similar to you. I continually got used because it was the easy thing to do. If I got promoted they'd have a hard time replacing me. So, I kept leap frogging to higher paying jobs at different places. IMO, that's what you should do if you want to get ahead. As soon as you get comfortable at the new place start looking up for something else and plan the leap.

IMO, the thing about people is to help them once or twice and then see how they react. If they are greatful and want to help you out in return then it can become a powerful friendship. But, if they just take and take and take they are like most people and you'll want to avoid them.

 

[user 176211]

I'm similar to you. I continually got used because it was the easy thing to do. If I got promoted they'd have a hard time replacing me. So, I kept leap frogging to higher paying jobs at different places. IMO, that's what you should do if you want to get ahead. As soon as you get comfortable at the new place start looking up for something else and plan the leap.

IMO, the thing about people is to help them once or twice and then see how they react. If they are greatful and want to help you out in return then it can become a powerful friendship. But, if they just take and take and take they are like most people and you'll want to avoid them.

Before anything else, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to read and commiserate. I know it was a long post but I just needed to vent when I left work today and after some dinner and a smoke, I feel a lot better.

I also wanted to thank you for the advice about leap frogging. And that is precisely what I am working on at the moment. One of the other talented folks that left the job recently is a friend of mine and has been coaching me with ideas as to how he did it. But I have discovered that many times, people even actually quit their company, and then apply again as an external hire, and as you say, "leap frog" into a higher title/pay. I'm considering that. I'm also putting out feelers as usual.

Thank you again for your commiseration. It always does give me a sense of relief and makes me feel heard when I see other people experience similar things, such as you situation as you explained it. Take care!

 

[Rohini]

This is my vow that I will never lift another finger to help another person in my life. I mean that. I mean that if I see someone struggling, I can comfortably now look the other way. Because right now, as I hang on by the last thread of my will, that is exactly what the world is doing to me. Things are tough and we all struggle. And I get that now. I never got anything from working hard or helping others. Its not a requirement to be a good person. A good person can keep to themselves and not help others. Just don't harm others. That's all.

I read your whole post, it was very interesting - and sad...sad because of how most people are....the disillusionment is real.

I can understand your last sentiments here, a lot actually. You feel hurt. You feel slighted. This "friend" who you took under your wing, doesn't seem to care. Isn't sympathetic to your hardships at all. And most importantly, doesn't come off remotely grateful.

But try and not let this skew your good nature toward others permanently.

What I'm trying to say is, don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch....

 

[TheRealCallie]

And for the unpopular opinion....
I don't really understand why her having a rich husband and "luxury" cars has anything to do with anything. You said it like it's a competition or something. Okay, she has money and you don't , but you hide the fact that you don't. She married into money.
As for her not doing anything on the projects (or very little or something different), that's kind of on you if you are in charge of them, isn't it? You have chosen to back her and risk yourself and get her out of ****, so that's on you. I'm sorry, but no one else made you do it.
People get "stuck" at companies all the time. If you aren't given the chance to grow and rise up, it's time to find a new company. Again, that's on you for letting them take advantage of you. For going above and beyond when it wasn't your job. Why pay extra for someone who's been doing it for free for years. And there's usually a "goodbye" meeting when you leave a company. I wouldn't really read too much into that.
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand what you've said in the post and I've felt the same before, but I think you're putting a lot of assumption on everything/everyone when you only have your own perspective.

 

[Sci-Fi]

Been there a few times but I found it really hard to actually stop trying to help people. In my personal life I'm a lot more cautious about who I "help" and often I find myself being a lot more jaded when I see people who need help. Sometimes some of them only ever want other people to help them and never do anything for themselves, and there are some who only ever want the sympathy and will constantly be woe is me despite everyone who tries to help them. Those people I try very hard to stay away from now, they will suck you in and bring you down. If you don't want to help yourself then you can go **** yourself is how I feel these days after being used by people so many times and being sucked down into their darkness.

At work I've always hated it when bosses or superiors would be "it's your job to do blah blah blah" "If I have to do it then I don't need you" kind of crap when maybe there is an issue that needs addressing and maybe they are putting too much on one person. Like OP said, it is a team, you all work together you help each other out and everything flows better. Where I work now we all help each other and discuss things, a lot of times it does come down to the boss making the final decision but he does ask and accept other peoples input. There is no crapping on someone if they make a mistake. If someone forgets something then there is someone else to help out and keep us all on track. It's nice to be in that kind of atmosphere, that is how it should be with people you work with. You all help each other out and do your part to keep everything running smoothly and efficiently. You don't point fingers or place blame. If you put too much on people they are going to mess up and if all you do is berate them then they will continue to mess up because all they do is worry about screwing up and getting yelled at they make more mistakes.

@Waldo P. Schmeer you should move on and find another job, hopefully find one that satisfies you more and makes you happier.

 

[user 135067]

I'd rather help and be unappreciated than to stand by and know I could have done something.

No one does life alone. The entire point of society is to share the burden.

 

[marina's diamond]

-I am struggling to pay rent and buy groceries. I don't tell anyone, but sometimes I eat tuna cans and crackers to get by until payday.

This line in particular got in me my feels. It can be hard putting yourself out for someone, just for them to use you as a stepping stone, but as many people have said already: there are plenty of other people not like her. I understand your frustration and reasoning for not wanting to help others anymore but imagine yourself in that same position.

Imagine someone turning their head to you with ease. It would hurt just as bad as your "friend" hurt you. (She's not your friend, by the way, she's a snake). You have a good heart and are willing to help someone without any benefit from it. Good hearts are rare. It's in human nature (and pretty damn common) for people to deceive and use people, so you can't expect much out of others. I am 95% sure she doesn't know what it's like to struggle, and that's why she is the way she is.

You're a good person, don't let what she did to you change that. Here's a quote from my dad that I think might be relevant: "Set limits, because others won't." Use her toxicity as a lesson on what boundaries you want to set with yourself and others. Sorry if this seems jumbled, but I know that being used ******* sucks.

 

[user 176211]

And for the unpopular opinion....
I don't really understand why her having a rich husband and "luxury" cars has anything to do with anything. You said it like it's a competition or something. Okay, she has money and you don't , but you hide the fact that you don't. She married into money.
As for her not doing anything on the projects (or very little or something different), that's kind of on you if you are in charge of them, isn't it? You have chosen to back her and risk yourself and get her out of ****, so that's on you. I'm sorry, but no one else made you do it.
People get "stuck" at companies all the time. If you aren't given the chance to grow and rise up, it's time to find a new company. Again, that's on you for letting them take advantage of you. For going above and beyond when it wasn't your job. Why pay extra for someone who's been doing it for free for years. And there's usually a "goodbye" meeting when you leave a company. I wouldn't really read too much into that.
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand what you've said in the post and I've felt the same before, but I think you're putting a lot of assumption on everything/everyone when you only have your own perspective.

That's certainly fair. So maybe I should clarify.

No, her having these things in life is not a bad thing. And its NOT a competition. You're right. That wasn't the point of that part of the post. I mention it because I was illustrating that we are not fighting for the same things. I want to have a good life. But I am being told by someone with a comfortable life that I shouldn't be upset for not getting what I feel I deserve.

Let me try it like this:
Imagine that you wish that you could buy a bicycle. But you're TRYING to learn how to ride one and save up money to buy one. And you're working very hard. And while you're struggling and saving for a bicycle, you have a friend that you love who rides a motorcycle that was gifted to them. And that SAME friend is telling you, "just be happy that you have legs. There is no use in learning how to ride a bicycle. You should just walk for the rest of your life." THAT was the sentiment with which I meant it.

The rest of your post about my fault that I am taken advantage of. Yes. You reiterated my point that I wrote in that long post. Thank you for recapping that. Thank you for taking the time to read it too. I know it was long. And yes, people do get stuck at jobs. And yes, it sucks. And since it sucks, I just came here to vent. So you recapped a lot of what I wrote pretty well. Thanks again

 

[user 176211]

Been there a few times but I found it really hard to actually stop trying to help people. In my personal life I'm a lot more cautious about who I "help" and often I find myself being a lot more jaded when I see people who need help. Sometimes some of them only ever want other people to help them and never do anything for themselves, and there are some who only ever want the sympathy and will constantly be woe is me despite everyone who tries to help them. Those people I try very hard to stay away from now, they will suck you in and bring you down. If you don't want to help yourself then you can go **** yourself is how I feel these days after being used by people so many times and being sucked down into their darkness.

At work I've always hated it when bosses or superiors would be "it's your job to do blah blah blah" "If I have to do it then I don't need you" kind of crap when maybe there is an issue that needs addressing and maybe they are putting too much on one person. Like OP said, it is a team, you all work together you help each other out and everything flows better. Where I work now we all help each other and discuss things, a lot of times it does come down to the boss making the final decision but he does ask and accept other peoples input. There is no crapping on someone if they make a mistake. If someone forgets something then there is someone else to help out and keep us all on track. It's nice to be in that kind of atmosphere, that is how it should be with people you work with. You all help each other out and do your part to keep everything running smoothly and efficiently. You don't point fingers or place blame. If you put too much on people they are going to mess up and if all you do is berate them then they will continue to mess up because all they do is worry about screwing up and getting yelled at they make more mistakes.

@Waldo P. Schmeer you should move on and find another job, hopefully find one that satisfies you more and makes you happier.

Hi Sci-Fi

Thank you for these kind words. I felt this a lot. You're right. I think a lot of people who have a natural aversion to work thinks ANYTHING related to a job is dumb. But people underestimate how a nice hard earned win can be. What you described about everyone sharing everything on a team is perfect. It's nice to be a part of something to achieve a common goal.
And yes, Im working on moving on. I just have to get past next week and I'm free again. I hope to find exactly what you describe- something more satisfying and gratifying.

As for not helping people- I haven't had too much trouble yet. I can't tell if its because Im checked out and down to my last few weeks. Or if I really did stop cold turkey. But I am looking forward to landing something that is more along the independent contributor side of work. Where I am accountable for MY work only.

Thank you for taking the time to share with me.

 

[user 176211]

This line in particular got in me my feels. It can be hard putting yourself out for someone, just for them to use you as a stepping stone, but as many people have said already: there are plenty of other people not like her. I understand your frustration and reasoning for not wanting to help others anymore but imagine yourself in that same position.

Imagine someone turning their head to you with ease. It would hurt just as bad as your "friend" hurt you. (She's not your friend, by the way, she's a snake). You have a good heart and are willing to help someone without any benefit from it. Good hearts are rare. It's in human nature (and pretty damn common) for people to deceive and use people, so you can't expect much out of others. I am 95% sure she doesn't know what it's like to struggle, and that's why she is the way she is.

You're a good person, don't let what she did to you change that. Here's a quote from my dad that I think might be relevant: "Set limits, because others won't." Use her toxicity as a lesson on what boundaries you want to set with yourself and others. Sorry if this seems jumbled, but I know that being used ******* sucks.

Thank you for this thoughtful post/sentiment.

And believe me, I got the lesson and am thinking of the boundaries I can set. For now, just as you eluded in your post, I am just processing my feelings and I feel like I've turned the corner from "hurt" to just "tired". I'm tired and I think I want to take some time to read or maybe go somewhere nice. Or just stay home and watch some movies I want to catch up. Anything that I can do to feel some sense of comfort. I haven't had many lazy days for 7 years. Maybe I'll just spend a few weeks going out and traveling locally and explore. Finally a day where this isn't due, and I have to worry all night about the next major project or due date, or meeting, or promotion. Just be a guy again.

Thanks for taking the time Marina.

 

[charlotte craig]

Hi, I found this really interesting. You are extremely self aware and analytical, I presume being good at analysing facts is part of your job too. I can totally understand why you decided not to help others. I was in a similar situation to you years ago. I was scraping by and also sometimes having to make do with no food or a slice of toast to get by till tomorrow. Everyone I met wanted to come to see me to pick my brain and get free advice. Very often they would just turn up and expect to walk in and sit there for hours like this. I was scrambling to work full time, returning from work at 7 pm. They knew this but they never thought that when I get in at 7 pm I am tired and worn out and need a break. That I need to have a bath and relax and eat or maybe go out for a change. There were obvious signs in my home that I was totally skint. My boiler had broken down and I had no hot water. My carpet was threadbare, my windows rotten etc. They saw all this. Yet none of these people ever said to me thanks so much for all this advice, that would have cost me a fortune elsewhere, here is some money to help you and reimburse you for your time. These people were not friends. I had either just met them once or they were strangers. Their only interest in me was for the help I could give them.

Then two things happened that totally changed how I saw all this - firstly, a very wealthy lady came to see me over and over again picking my brain. She would sit there for three hours at a time. And of course never offered me anything at all, not even a thank you!

Then I became ill, too ill to work. Had to stay at home in bed. Not one of these people offered to get me any shopping. Or pop in to cheer me up. Nothing. Yet I had done so much for them, saved them a bundle. They knew I lived on my own and had no family - but the only person they cared about was themselves. Some of them had the cheek to phone me nagging me to give them a lot of free advice on the phone and one moaned that I felt too ill to do it.

When I was better I trained properly and got examinations and certificates proving my worth and as from then every time someone turned up and said hey Ive come to see you about my problems I would give them my new business card and tell them they must make an appointment and pay. Of course this type of person will just leave it then, they had no intention of ever paying, but it got rid of them, which is what I wanted. I advertised and picked up genuine appreciative nice clients who were happy to make appointments and pay for the very thing that all of these people expected for free forever, even though they knew I was totally skint.
The truth is that many people are very mean, greedy, selfish. You need to be able to pick up which are and avoid them if you can.

Anyway you have to be careful. BECAUSE your skills and time are valuable when you are a professional.

Now I get crafty people thinking they can come to me for free consultations if they offer to take my dog for a walk or something equally unimportant and non skilled. Where I would be giving them something worth £1000 and they would be giving me something worth only £20 in return. And only an idiot would give their precious dog to some stranger to take care of. So no, it makes far more sense and is far fairer to say this the cost of my service take it or leave it. And if you dont do that you end up with no time, everyone helps themselves to your time and you have no life, you just exist to make their lives better. You also would be totally useless at giving advice if you were that silly. People want advice from smart people not people who are naive, gullible and stupid. The really bizarre thing here is that the more you do for people and let them take from you, the less they appreciate you and respect you and like you. They see you as a convenience not a person.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

I have the problem described above. About a decade ago, I was changing in some positive ways, and was beginning to learn to set limits for myself and enforce borders people couldn't cross.

For example, I limited myself to giving out one cigarette a day. If I didn't do that, I'd be giving out at least two a day, maybe three or four. However, I did like to help people, so the compromise was, I can give out one cigarette a day.

I also limited myself on how much money I'd give to the homeless. I would get change for a 20, in one dollar bills, put that in my glove compartment and use that. So I'd give out 20 dollars a month to random homeless folks asking for spare change, and that was my limit.

I've kind of regressed since then.

But, the one thing I do know is that, it's a self-inflicted wound. I present myself as a submissive, subordinate, self-deprecating type of person. I think I partly do it out of fear. I want people to like me. And that way I don't have to assert myself. I think it's also, sub-consciously a confrontation avoiding technique, since nearly every single person I encounter in this world, to me, appears to be quite frightening in one way or another.

So, when you present yourself to some one as a PEZ-dispenser, _most_ people, will just empty you and discard you. And I sincerely believe, the majority of these people don't do it because they are, 'cruel,' the reason they do it, is because, they are absolutely unaware they are doing it at all. Their life is interesting to them, they aren't suffering the way you are and their mind is on the next great thing about to happen to them. Or, it's the opposite, they are ignorant, and they are suffering greatly, and they are trying to avoid the next worse thing that's going to happen to them, and you probably don't have it quite so bad, in their eyes. And, really, it's because, for most us, we are the main concern in our lives. And to make matters even more confusing, we are often told, 'you have to put number one first,' and then when **** hits the fan and our number one priority, our self, is having problems, people say, 'think about others for a change, it's not all about you.'

So it's mixed messages and double-binds all the way down. And, my younger self, I think, understood the simple fact that, you need balance. You can, of course, weld your doors permanently shut, because you got robbed once, or maybe even twice or seven times; but, I don't think that's the way. For a time, it may be beneficial, or preferable; but...

The way is to learn to give of yourself in a way that improves YOUR life, AND the life of others. Sadly, we are raised on the virtue of being giving and selfless beings; but, we aren't taught that, being selfless, doesn't mean you will be rewarded. You might be punished. Maybe you will be rewarded with success, and admiration; but, you might also be hated, misunderstood, kicked aside, and left to die in the gutter and be spit on while you starve to death or bleed out.

That's life, and it's unfair. Personally, I can't stand feelings of anger and resentment residing inside me, and those feelings are so frequent for me these days, where, they were a rarity only just a little less than a decade ago, and all the years before. And I think all that means is, you can break a person. You can kill some one, completely, and entirely, and still leave them with a beating heart, eyes that see, legs that work, etc.. You can even compel this dead soul to function in society, like a cog in a machine. And, I think that's sad. And worse, you might zombify them, or make a vampire of them, or a warewolf (I always hated all those story tropes). The disease given, is given in kind..

So many angry, hurt, bitter, confused people in the world... It's a disease. And I don't know what the cure is; but, I hope for it.

I think finding balance though, is a good start. Often times we set ourselves up like bowling pins, unknowingly, and one day some one comes along and gets a strike right through us, and it completely obliterates our world. Our first response is to blame them. And some blame may rest on them, yes. The blame may rest entirely upon them even; but, still, we have our responsibility. What did we do to contribute to being on the losing end of the encounter. And if we are impartially blameless, still we have the responsibility of not letting that disease, rot us out from the inside, and quite literally kill our spirit...

When I was that younger, wiser person, I told managers to **** off when they need some one to cover a shift, I even turned down a promotion, because I knew the pay wasn't going to match the 4 fold increase in work difficulty. I know you loved your career, and management ruined it for ya; but, that's the managers job. They are parasitic people, and because they are at the top, they promote parasitic people, not good people. That's not always the case; but, it seems to be the rule, where the good are the exception.

And that's a bit of a bad lesson i've learned. it's not worth working hard. it's not even worth working at all, really, for like probably 90% of jobs that exist in America, at least, that I'd qualify for.

Don't waste your time thinking anyone will suffer in your absence though. They very well might, but they certainly won't acknowledge it. They'll just find the next sucker they can heap loads of work upon, parasatize them, and blame the patsy, and sacrifice the goat on the alter, if they need to...

There is a book called, "Anyway," by Kent M. Keith, I believe. It's a good one I think; but, I did find it a bit infuriating that the author is some one who has known success and admiration for his work, while others get far less; but, he's not a gandi, and he's not a Martin Luther King; and neither am I.

I try to be helpful; but, who have I really helped? And for some of the help I do give, was it worth it, for me to be so much worse off for it? I dunno..

 

[charlotte craig]

Very refreshing and totally agree. People take from you only if you let them - whether that is time, skills, food, money. And very often it is done to be liked or to avoid an argument or bad feeling. People actually think more of you if you have a personality and confidence rather than meekly submitting.

 

[user 139760]

I always help people. Doesn't matter if it's returned or not, appreciated or not, gives me more work or not.
It's what I do

 

[TheSkaFish]

That's certainly fair. So maybe I should clarify.

No, her having these things in life is not a bad thing. And its NOT a competition. You're right. That wasn't the point of that part of the post. I mention it because I was illustrating that we are not fighting for the same things. I want to have a good life. But I am being told by someone with a comfortable life that I shouldn't be upset for not getting what I feel I deserve.

Let me try it like this:
Imagine that you wish that you could buy a bicycle. But you're TRYING to learn how to ride one and save up money to buy one. And you're working very hard. And while you're struggling and saving for a bicycle, you have a friend that you love who rides a motorcycle that was gifted to them. And that SAME friend is telling you, "just be happy that you have legs. There is no use in learning how to ride a bicycle. You should just walk for the rest of your life." THAT was the sentiment with which I meant it.

The rest of your post about my fault that I am taken advantage of. Yes. You reiterated my point that I wrote in that long post. Thank you for recapping that. Thank you for taking the time to read it too. I know it was long. And yes, people do get stuck at jobs. And yes, it sucks. And since it sucks, I just came here to vent. So you recapped a lot of what I wrote pretty well. Thanks again

From your original post I got that impression too, that you feel differently than this person because you're not fighting for the same things. With you, you're fighting hard to "arrive", and to stay there. The person in your story, however, has already "arrived", and is in little to no danger of losing her lifestyle, which she hasn't really worked/sacrificed/suffered for in the first place because she married into it. The money she makes from working is just gravy, on top of what she would have anyway.

With you, you feel the need to work hard, to get ahead or just to keep your job - you feel pressured to show that you're a high performer, and it stresses you out. She, on the other hand, isn't as pressured to perform, and just phones it in. You feel like you're working harder, performing better, and taking on more responsibility and stress, but getting less.

And this part here:

And that SAME friend is telling you, "just be happy that you have legs. There is no use in learning how to ride a bicycle. You should just walk for the rest of your life."

That part really got to me. I absolutely hate the kind of person that tells you to "be thankful for what you have" aka "just give up on life and accept your place", in other words the "I've got mine/I'm alright, and that's all that matters - **** you". It's such a backwards philosophy. It's an applied version of "might makes right", there is no good and evil, no right and wrong - just power and weakness. Inherent superiority, and inherent inferiority. In other words it's the bully philosophy.

Not only would I refuse to help such a person, but I also would not, and could not, be their friend. Or even their acquaintance. In fact I'd have to restrain myself from getting offensive and violent with that kind of person, that ideology bothers me that intensely. Honestly I think people like that are what's wrong with the world, are actively making everything worse, and it's best for my mental health to avoid them completely.

Only you know what's right for you, what's important to you. But I wouldn't feel bad about doing what's right for you and leaving this person to sink or swim themselves. It's not your problem. If it were me, I would leave, withhold all help, and I'd even re-evaluate if this is a friendship I even want, if I want this person in my life. But again, only you can answer that.

---

I think a lot of people who have a natural aversion to work thinks ANYTHING related to a job is dumb.

Going to have to disagree on this one though. I probably seem just like you said, like one of those people that has a natural aversion to work and thinks anything related to a job is dumb. But that's what my observations and experiences have shown me. To say that it's just laziness, to me, is reductionist. I never got into hard work because I never believed in it, I never believed it would do anything for me, because I never believed I had any genetic talent, because there was never anything I was naturally good at, and I thought you had to be born with the right genetics, otherwise you were incapable of working hard enough to succeed. And I haven't had any positive experiences with work, nothing that would give me any kind of faith in it or good feelings about it, it's all been 100% negative, which influenced me to be 100% cynical about it. The best I can do is grudgingly accept that this is the way things will be for the foreseeable future, and I don't like it, but I acknowledge that it's better than living in misery, and I don't want to complain my life away.

And I've also seen a lot of people work hard and get nowhere. I've seen a lot of people work hard, do what they're told, sacrifice good feelings, and all they get for it is to exist in an unhappy, boring life. They just stay stuck in place, if that - sometimes they even go backwards, despite their efforts. I've always wondered, if hard work is so effective, then why don't most people get anywhere, advance, have anything, even though they work hard, have a positive attitude, and generally do everything that they're told? I feel like the answer is, because they're not working smart, they're not working on the right stuff. If you work hard, but on something that isn't hard/complex/risky/stressful enough to pay anything, then you get nowhere and it doesn't matter how hard you work or how good your attitude is. The question then is, is everyone capable of doing something hard enough, to get a decent quality of life? If this is truly the greatest system on Earth, then why is there so much failure, misery, and despair in it? But that's another rabbit hole.

Anyway. My point with that, with whether or not work and jobs are meaningful, is it's one of those things where "your mileage may vary".

PS -
while I might thing that work and jobs are dumb a lot of the time, I don't think achievement/accomplishment is dumb, or work on things that you find personally meaningful. But again, that's another story.

 

[TheRealCallie]

From your original post I got that impression too, that you feel differently than this person because you're not fighting for the same things. With you, you're fighting hard to "arrive", and to stay there. The person in your story, however, has already "arrived", and is in little to no danger of losing her lifestyle, which she hasn't really worked/sacrificed/suffered for in the first place because she married into it. The money she makes from working is just gravy, on top of what she would have anyway.

With you, you feel the need to work hard, to get ahead or just to keep your job - you feel pressured to show that you're a high performer, and it stresses you out. She, on the other hand, isn't as pressured to perform, and just phones it in. You feel like you're working harder, performing better, and taking on more responsibility and stress, but getting less.

How exactly do you know she doesn't want to make her own way? Bring her own bacon home, so to speak. Just because her husband has money doesn't mean she would have money if they divorce or whatever. Maybe she is looking to secure her future on her own and not have to rely on her husband's money.

I don't know. Call me crazy, but there is so much assumption going on in the OP and the replies it's ridiculous. Though, I generally tend to feel that way about most posts here. You have one side of the story. Whether you are friends with this woman or not, you don't know her mind, her goals, her desires. Perhaps she wants a career too. I could be wrong about this and apologies if I am, but it just seems like the OP is essentially putting words in this woman's mouth because he's pissed off. So, as I said before. At least two (three actually) versions of every story. You only know your own and the assumptions you put on the other half.

 

[TheSkaFish]

How exactly do you know she doesn't want to make her own way? Bring her own bacon home, so to speak. Just because her husband has money doesn't mean she would have money if they divorce or whatever. Maybe she is looking to secure her future on her own and not have to rely on her husband's money.

I don't know. Call me crazy, but there is so much assumption going on in the OP and the replies it's ridiculous. Though, I generally tend to feel that way about most posts here. You have one side of the story. Whether you are friends with this woman or not, you don't know her mind, her goals, her desires. Perhaps she wants a career too. I could be wrong about this and apologies if I am, but it just seems like the OP is essentially putting words in this woman's mouth because he's pissed off. So, as I said before. At least two (three actually) versions of every story. You only know your own and the assumptions you put on the other half.

Yeah I mean, I was just going off the impression I got from the information in the post. Of course there's no way I could know what the woman in the story is really like, or the details of her life situation.

Also my experiences with work, and with people that have money, have largely been negative, so it's easy for me to assume the worst. It's natural for me to assume that honest work doesn't pay, so anyone that has money must be bullshitting/lying/cheating in some way, running some kind of scam or con - unless they're a pro athlete or entertainer or something, or were born with genetics that make them freakishly smart or cunning. And/or they just got lucky. Growing up I saw a lot of luck paying off, and not a lot of hard work paying off, so it's colored my perception.

There is one thing though - what she said to OP. The kind of people that tell others that they should just settle for what they know they're deeply unhappy with, I really do believe that kind of person is that bad. If someone claimed to be my friend, but talked to me that way, we would very quickly not be friends anymore. So it kind of lends credence to the claim that this person isn't too cool.

Either way OP has to decide for himself if it's worth it to be their friend anymore, or not.

 

[TheRealCallie]

There is one thing though - what she said to OP. The kind of people that tell others that they should just settle for what they know they're deeply unhappy with, I really do believe that kind of person is that bad. If someone claimed to be my friend, but talked to me that way, we would very quickly not be friends anymore. So it kind of lends credence to the claim that this person isn't too cool.

Did she actually say that though or is that just what the OP interpreted from what she actually said? That's why I never go directly off what a person says. Unless I can hear both versions of the story, I'm only going to believe about 50% of one side. Hell, even if I hear both sides, I'm not going to fully believe all of it, because unless there is an impartial witness, neither side is likely to be 100% honest because of perspectives and assumptions.

 

[charlotte craig]

Help people in what way? Some people are not in a position to really help people. Others can help them a lot.