The East End of a Horse Headed West

[TheSkaFish]

Disclaimer:
This is just a rant, basically - I'm not really asking for advice or solutions.
I'm handling this, in the way that I feel is enough.
I just wanted to get it off my chest.
Feel free to ignore if you don't wish to read, it's cool.

Anyway. That guy came around twice last week, trying to twist my arm into hanging out again.

I've mentioned him on here a couple times in the past:

https://www.alonelylife.com/threads/what-are-you-thinking-right-now.2065/page-2520#post-918879

https://www.alonelylife.com/threads/what-are-you-thinking-right-now.2065/page-2884#post-1065830

https://www.alonelylife.com/threads/what-are-you-thinking-right-now.2065/page-2902#post-1070017

I was just thinking he hadn't done that in a while, and that maybe me being assertive and setting boundaries was finally working. But it seems that it was not the case. The first time, I just didn't answer the door. I figured, if he's going to invite himself over without even knowing if I'm home, much less if I can or even want to go out, and I don't answer, then it's not me being rude, it's him being rude for coming over here without asking, and demanding that I go out. The second time, I had no choice but to answer the door. So I was terse with him, and I just told the truth: "What's up, I'm about to leave. I wasn't planning on anyone coming over today. I have to go. Bad timing. I'm sorry." Then I went inside and shut the door, waited until he left, then went back to what I was doing.

That's the thing with him - he invites himself over unannounced, and then expects me to drop whatever I'm doing, change any plans I might already have, just to hang out with him for the rest of the day, or at least enough of it where the day is, for all intents and purposes, shot.

I've told him to stop doing this, multiple times. I've said "you can't just come over randomly like this, I might have stuff to do, or I might not even be home". I've said that I need time to do both day-to-day tasks, and to figure my life out. I need time to myself. Plus if he comes over randomly, even if I'm here, he doesn't even know what I'm doing at the time. I've been interrupted several times like this, like when I'm eating dinner, or even once when I was in the shower.

He also keeps trying to get me to go running with him. This is another thing I don't want to do, because for me, running is a lot like shaving - it's maintenance of the body, something I need to get done. It's not a social call, and not one of my main interests in life - it's a task to check off. I try to just make it a half hour or so, which is what I read is the amount of cardio you need to be healthy. With him, he wants to do all these long runs, sprint workouts, all kinds of things that drag it out for hours. I've tried saying that look, I'm not doing this to be a runner, I'm just doing this to control my weight and get the mental health benefits. I don't have time to make this an all-day event.

There are a couple main issues causing the rift:

One, that what he wants out of life and what I want out of life are not the same. I don't know if he cares about getting a career, but he doesn't seem to care about getting good at something or getting a relationship. But if I don't get what I want out of life because I was too generous with my time and gave it to him instead of giving it to myself to figure out my problems in life, I'm going to be pissed. And he's not going to say he's sorry, wave a magic wand and fix it for me. He'll just say "I guess you missed out", or say it's MY fault that I didn't figure it out. He hasn't said this, but I know this guy enough to know that's how he'd be. Hanging out with him doesn't move me closer to my goals (career, get good at something, romantic relationship). It's just hanging out with him for its own sake, which usually means listening to him ramble for hours. We're not going in the same direction in life, or at least, I don't want to go in that direction - I want to go the opposite way.

Two, he isn't respectful of my time. He expects me to drop what I'm doing and change my plans to hang out with him instead, and thinks he can come over whenever he wants and help himself to as much of my time as he wants. He takes my time for granted, as though it is his to waste. Maybe that one is my fault, because I was nice and accommodating in the past, and I would usually go out, and allowed him to talk, thinking he would wind the conversation down in a reasonable amount of time. But he'd go on and on, and then I would get stuck with the consequences of that as if it were my intention to go out all night when it wasn't. I would say "I have to go home", "I'm tired", and then he'd just keep going on and on, and not wanting to be mean or rude, I just went with it, trying to let the conversation end naturally instead of abruptly ending it. I guess I set a bad precedent. He may or may not even know he's being rude, I'd like to give him the benefit of doubt, but whether he's aware or not, it's still rude, and I've decided enough is enough. And he doesn't just say "OK" and go home, when I say I can't go out. He assumes I'm always available, and when I say I'm not, he tries to twist my arm. I used to let him talk then too, but when that happens now, I just cut him off and go inside, because there is no point in continuing the conversation. He's just going to keep trying to twist my arm, and I'm just going to keep saying I can't go out, and we're just going to waste more time saying the same things we said already. I don't feel guilty about cutting him off and shutting the door on him anymore, because the way I see it, he shouldn't have come over here without asking in the first place, and he shouldn't demand that I drop what I'm doing, change my plans for him, and go out, and he shouldn't take my time and availability for granted either. It's rude and disrespectful, and I'm not going to take it anymore.

Another thing was, he wanted to go out a lot during COVID. I kept saying no, I wasn't comfortable taking the risk. I didn't want to get sick, or bring it home. He kept trying to twist my arm. That, combined with the other stuff, was about when I started realizing that I needed to be assertive with this guy, set boundaries, and put myself first, make myself and what I want out of life a priority over aimless hanging out. I realized that hanging out with this guy wasn't helping me move towards getting what really matters to me in life, and that the older I get with my dreams unrealized, the less generous I can afford to be with my time. And also, I started feeling disrespected with my time and boundaries, that this guy was taking my availability for granted because that's the message I was sending by not being assertive enough before. Either way, he's not thinking of me and my happiness, he's thinking of himself and his boredom. But the thing is, his boredom is not my responsibility - my responsibility is fixing my own life and making it what I want it to be. Sometimes I want to tell this guy, "I don't want to hang out because I want to figure out my life, and I suggest you go home and figure out yours".

I don't really want to get mad and curse this guy out, for a number of reasons. He was/is a part of a friend group I know, and I don't want to create tension, awkwardness, bad blood. Also, while we don't really have a lot of common interests and goals, one of those interests is fandom of a lot of the same bands. So there's that (but that's also kind of a difference, I keep returning to the idea of wanting to learn an instrument for real, not just to fool around - if you're just going to fool around, might as well play video games - while he is content to just be a fan and go on and on about the greats, but that's another story). Finally, I don't actually enjoy cursing people out and picking fights as much as it might seem like I do at times. I really don't want to be that kind of person, especially to someone who isn't really an enemy, even though they are getting on my nerves at times.

As I get older, and I still don't have what I want, I'm trying to put myself first more. Plus I'm just trying to go from having lifelong issues with passivity, to being more assertive. I just get fed up with these unannounced visits, demands of my time, and trying to twist my arm, this disrespect of my time and boundaries whether he is aware of it or not. That's why I refer to this guy as "a horse's ass", because it's the perfect amount of rebuke - it's not quite "I hate you", but much like the literal meaning - when he comes over randomly, he makes himself into an interruption, an obstacle, a problem I have to deal with - like now I have to convince this guy to go home. It's like having a big horse's ass in your way, obnoxiously blocking the road.

I even feel bad for the guy a little bit, like I might be one of the last people he knows around here. But still, that's exactly why I need my time to myself - I have to figure out how to get my life to take off, just like everyone else. And I feel like I have to communicate to this guy that I'm not his babysitter, or his on-call personal entertainer. I'm sorry he's bored, or perhaps even lonely, but I'm not a toy sitting on the shelf waiting to be played with - I'm a person with a life of my own, and I have to prioritize myself and my goals and dreams first. Sometimes I'll be nice and say "OK, I can go for a short walk, but I just have an hour, that's it". I just keep in mind that when it comes to this guy, I have to set clear and firm boundaries, because at the end of the day, if I'm too generous and not careful enough with my time, I'll be the one that pays for it.

Anyway, yeah - just blowing off some steam.

 

[okidoke]

Does he do this with other neighbours? Maybe make a pass at him lol, unless that’s what he’s after lol

 

[TropicalStarfish]

nm

Spoiler: My thoughts on the matter... of which you may already be aware of anyway.

I'll keep this short, as you may already be aware, however...

One thing I realized is that: reputation precedes you. And this is absolutely (_unavoidable_)

I worked at Walmart once, and, at that time, I was a bit more self-actualized. I set hard limits: "only bumming one cigarette a day to one person; no more" "Only giving $20 to the homeless per month, no more" "Not going to work extra hours for a sh*t corporation that gives a crap about me"

I went into that job, that area, and all the people there, with those limits already _Set-in-place_ So they knew that from the get-go. I didn't have any trouble. They tried once, to get me to work extra hours: I gave them a hard no, and they never asked again.

But, it's like the Vampire: once you let him in the door once, he's free to come and go. If your reputation, who you are known as, is different than what you want to become: you'll have to face down the devils (your karma (your action)).

And honestly, I can tell you; I haven't learned how to do that. I was in a good place, once, for a short time, but, I've never regained that ground. A reputation that precedes you, best I can tell, is hard to overcome; and for all the effort one may put into overcoming it, it may turn out to be two roads that diverged in a wood...

Anyway, beyond that. Sorry to hear it man. (sorry if it's unsolicited advice: it's just, it's hard, and it sucks...)

 

[TheSkaFish]

Does he do this with other neighbours? Maybe make a pass at him lol, unless that’s what he’s after lol

He's not actually my neighbor, he lives across town.
I know him as part of one of the circles I hang out with (not meaning to say I'm Mr. Popular, I just know two separate, small groups).
I don't think he's after guys, but that's the thing - I don't think he's after girls either.
I don't think he cares about that part of life at all.
And that's fine, that's just how he's wired.
But that's the problem - getting into a romantic relationship is really important to me, and hanging out with him is not only NOT going to help me with that, but it's also going to be very time-consuming. So that means to hang out with him, is to do something that takes up a lot of time, that doesn't really help me get to where I want to go - and because of that, I've been more and more reluctant to give him my time.

I'd have less of a problem with it if I were in a better place in life, but I'm not, so until things get better, I have to prioritize myself.

 

[okidoke]

He's not actually my neighbor, he lives across town.

Oh what?! That's darn weird.

...... and hanging out with him is not only NOT going to help me with that, but it's also going to be very time-consuming.....

Unless that might open up possible connections with women somehow?

On another note @TheSkaFish you like dogs a lot, which is great, so what about getting into some job dealing with them; dog grooming, vet nurse, etc?

 

[TheSkaFish]

Unless that might open up possible connections with women somehow?

Trust me, I don't think it's likely. In fact, in all the times I've hung out with him, I don't think there have been any women present. I don't think there are any women among the people he knows well. I don't want to insult the guy any more than I have, or talk behind his back, but...he definitely has some mannerisms about him that I'm sure most women would find off-putting. I let them go, because I don't think he can help it, I know what it's like to be judged harshly, and I would want someone to cut me some slack too. But others would not be as forgiving.

On another note @TheSkaFish you like dogs a lot, which is great, so what about getting into some job dealing with them; dog grooming, vet nurse, etc?

That's a good idea, actually. There was a time once a while ago, where I started a course, and on day 1, the professor said she would require us to volunteer. Back then I wasn't thinking clearly, so I immediately dropped the course out of not wanting to have additional demands placed on my time. But in retrospect, it was a dumb move. It got me thinking in general, that sometimes I make bad/wrong/short-sighted decisions, not because I am dumb necessarily and can't understand the right answer - I can, but I do the wrong thing sometimes because I have a habit of assuming the most negative interpretation of something must be the right answer. But that's not necessarily true.

If I could do that over again, I would have volunteered at something with dogs/pets/animals. I would have liked it and it would have fulfilled the requirement. I don't know why it didn't occur to me back then. Like I said I wasn't thinking straight.

Anyway, yeah. I just might end up doing that. It's something I've also considered myself.

 

[okidoke]

Trust me, I don't think it's likely. In fact, in all the times I've hung out with him, I don't think there have been any women present. I don't think there are any women among the people he knows well. I don't want to insult the guy any more than I have, or talk behind his back, but...he definitely has some mannerisms about him that I'm sure most women would find off-putting. I let them go, because I don't think he can help it, I know what it's like to be judged harshly, and I would want someone to cut me some slack too. But others would not be as forgiving.



That's a good idea, actually. There was a time once a while ago, where I started a course, and on day 1, the professor said she would require us to volunteer. Back then I wasn't thinking clearly, so I immediately dropped the course out of not wanting to have additional demands placed on my time. But in retrospect, it was a dumb move. It got me thinking in general, that sometimes I make bad/wrong/short-sighted decisions, not because I am dumb necessarily and can't understand the right answer - I can, but I do the wrong thing sometimes because I have a habit of assuming the most negative interpretation of something must be the right answer. But that's not necessarily true.

If I could do that over again, I would have volunteered at something with dogs/pets/animals. I would have liked it and it would have fulfilled the requirement. I don't know why it didn't occur to me back then. Like I said I wasn't thinking straight.

Anyway, yeah. I just might end up doing that. It's something I've also considered myself.

Do what pleases and calms. The best jobs are those that don’t feel like jobs.

 

[TheSkaFish]

nm

Spoiler: My thoughts on the matter... of which you may already be aware of anyway.

I'll keep this short, as you may already be aware, however...

One thing I realized is that: reputation precedes you. And this is absolutely (_unavoidable_)

I worked at Walmart once, and, at that time, I was a bit more self-actualized. I set hard limits: "only bumming one cigarette a day to one person; no more" "Only giving $20 to the homeless per month, no more" "Not going to work extra hours for a sh*t corporation that gives a crap about me"

I went into that job, that area, and all the people there, with those limits already _Set-in-place_ So they knew that from the get-go. I didn't have any trouble. They tried once, to get me to work extra hours: I gave them a hard no, and they never asked again.

But, it's like the Vampire: once you let him in the door once, he's free to come and go. If your reputation, who you are known as, is different than what you want to become: you'll have to face down the devils (your karma (your action)).

And honestly, I can tell you; I haven't learned how to do that. I was in a good place, once, for a short time, but, I've never regained that ground. A reputation that precedes you, best I can tell, is hard to overcome; and for all the effort one may put into overcoming it, it may turn out to be two roads that diverged in a wood...

Anyway, beyond that. Sorry to hear it man. (sorry if it's unsolicited advice: it's just, it's hard, and it sucks...)

View attachment 9192

Hey. I think I recognize that reference, it's "Let the Right One In". I saw that back in 2010 I think

Anyway, t's cool that you were able to go into that situation knowing what your boundaries were and that you had them already in place. That way, you can just act according to them, and you don't have to think about it on the spot - you already know what you're going to do, and you can just stick to it. Hopefully you can get to that self-actualized headspace again, it sounds like you were really in command of your life at that point. I hope I can reach that state of mind myself.

And I think what you're saying is true about reputation. I probably unwittingly set myself up to have a reputation as a pushover, because I would always let this guy talk in the past, and I'd always go out for hours in the past. Eventually at some point I realized enough was enough and I had to start putting myself first. I think this guy still thinks of me as I was, but I am not going to budge on this - I never liked being seen as weak or a pushover by anyone, it really ticks me off and it does so more and more the older I get. It's not what I want to go through life being, this much I'm sure of.

Who I'm known as, is DEFINITELY different than who I'd like to become.
I'd definitely like to change my reputation.
I want to shed this reputation as a weak person/pushover/easy target, and get more respect, be seen as a stronger person, and be taken more seriously.
I've become bullheaded about it, and am willing to face down whatever devils I have to in order to make this happen. I look back on my life, not just with this guy but the whole thing, and I see how I've been perceived that way, and I DO NOT want to go my whole life like this.
There have been many times where I should have set hard, firm boundaries, drawn the line, put myself first.

What did you mean by (your karma(your action)) though?
Your karma times your action? How does that work out?

PS - that horse gif had me in stitches, he's even running left too, or "west", lol. Well played

 

[TropicalStarfish]

What did you mean by (your karma(your action)) though?
Your karma times your action? How does that work out?

That karma is action. Not trying to give you hell, (just going through it).

 

[TheSkaFish]

That karma is action. Not trying to give you hell, (just going through it).

It's cool man, I just didn't understand what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

In all honesty I probably made this guy sound worse than he really is - another reason why I don't really want to insult him hard, or curse him out.

He's not a bad person, or a dumb person, or anything like that. We've had many good music chats in the past.

The problem is, he wants more of my time than I am currently willing to offer.
And he assumes that I'm always available, because I made myself available in the past out of niceness, when I didn't know that I was setting a precedent. And, I just find it rude of him to act like that.
But I have, and will continue to communicate to him that I just can't make hanging out Priority #1 right now.

I think he wants to hang out with me, more than I want to hang out with him. Speaking of karma, I have sometimes wondered if this is my karma for doing this, out of ignorance, with some women in the past when I lacked understanding, that they were just the wrong people for me and I wasn't supposed to be there - I was trying to make a connection work, that I wasn't supposed to, or that I was supposed to be doing something else.

I would probably be more open to hanging out with him - albeit not for as much time as he would like - if my life were in a better place. But as it is not, I just don't feel like taking that big of detours, from figuring my life out.

 

[TheSkaFish]

It was my birthday a little while ago.
That guy came over on it, only sort of randomly.
He sent an email first, which was good, but then randomly showed up before I replied.
He wished me a happy birthday, which was nice, and I appreciate it.
But just like before, he tried to twist my arm into going out for the rest of the night, when I wanted to just eat cake and ice cream at home and didn't want to go out and spend money.
Then he tried to get me to go for a swim the next day, and to go running all the time again.

Again, the birthday greetings were nice, but as for the going out for the rest of the night, and hanging out all the time, I stuck to my guns. Turning another year older, and not being where I want to be (although with a lot clearer of a mind than ever before), is all the more reason I need to put myself first. If everything was going swimmingly, and I had extra time, I'd have less of a problem being generous with it. But I'm behind as it is. I have to be firm, that I can't make hanging out priority #1 right now. Hanging out is only if there is extra time, and I don't think there will be any for the foreseeable future. I have to make myself priority #1, instead.

 

[TheRealCallie]

It was my birthday a little while ago.
That guy came over on it, only sort of randomly.
He sent an email first, which was good, but then randomly showed up before I replied.
He wished me a happy birthday, which was nice, and I appreciate it.
But just like before, he tried to twist my arm into going out for the rest of the night, when I wanted to just eat cake and ice cream at home and didn't want to go out and spend money.
Then he tried to get me to go for a swim the next day, and to go running all the time again.

Again, the birthday greetings were nice, but as for the going out for the rest of the night, and hanging out all the time, I stuck to my guns. Turning another year older, and not being where I want to be (although with a lot clearer of a mind than ever before), is all the more reason I need to put myself first. If everything was going swimmingly, and I had extra time, I'd have less of a problem being generous with it. But I'm behind as it is. I have to be firm, that I can't make hanging out priority #1 right now. Hanging out is only if there is extra time, and I don't think there will be any for the foreseeable future. I have to make myself priority #1, instead.

Okay, I fully understand having the boundaries and sticking to them, but at the same time all work and no play makes Ska a dull boy. And more than that, it could also have negative aspects if you don't let yourself let loose once in a while. And it's your birthday, you should go out and blow off some steam.

Another aspect that may or may not be there....and I understand that I don't have all the facts, so I might be wrong....is that maybe he feels like you are isolating and are depressed so he's trying to get you to go out so you don't stay in that depression all the time.

 

[okidoke]

Okay, I fully understand having the boundaries and sticking to them, but at the same time all work and no play makes Ska a dull boy. And more than that, it could also have negative aspects if you don't let yourself let loose once in a while. And it's your birthday, you should go out and blow off some steam.

Another aspect that may or may not be there....and I understand that I don't have all the facts, so I might be wrong....is that maybe he feels like you are isolating and are depressed so he's trying to get you to go out so you don't stay in that depression all the time.

You beat me to both points. Well done. I totally agree.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Okay, I fully understand having the boundaries and sticking to them, but at the same time all work and no play makes Ska a dull boy. And more than that, it could also have negative aspects if you don't let yourself let loose once in a while. And it's your birthday, you should go out and blow off some steam.

Another aspect that may or may not be there....and I understand that I don't have all the facts, so I might be wrong....is that maybe he feels like you are isolating and are depressed so he's trying to get you to go out so you don't stay in that depression all the time.

I see what you mean.
And he's said as much about thinking I'm too isolated and depressed - which, though I value and even need alone time to clear my head and figure myself out, I am depressed too. The more I think about it the more I think I've been depressed for a long time and I've been running the same patterns since then (like ever since kindergarten when I felt like I sucked at everything and couldn't improve much because I felt wasn't born good at it like others seemed to be - which I think is the core of my whole depression, struggles with career, attraction, personality, everything - but that's another story for another thread).

So I recognize that, it's actually kind of nice that someone notices.

But the problem is, I still don't want to go down the road this guy is going down, I don't want to get caught up in that lifestyle because I know I wouldn't be happy in it. I'm trying to escape it.

To use the analogy - it's as if I'm trying to quit drinking, but he's trying to drag me back to the bar.
I'm trying to get out of this lifestyle, because it's not compatible with attraction, which we all know is extremely important to me (and not to him, at all). So I'm trying to save my time, for where it counts, instead of going on long and regular detours from the things that matter to me in life the most.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I see what you mean.
And he's said as much about thinking I'm too isolated and depressed - which, though I value and even need alone time to clear my head and figure myself out, I am depressed too. The more I think about it the more I think I've been depressed for a long time and I've been running the same patterns since then (like ever since kindergarten when I felt like I sucked at everything and couldn't improve much because I felt wasn't born good at it like others seemed to be - which I think is the core of my whole depression, struggles with career, attraction, personality, everything - but that's another story for another thread).

So I recognize that, it's actually kind of nice that someone notices.

But the problem is, I still don't want to go down the road this guy is going down, I don't want to get caught up in that lifestyle because I know I wouldn't be happy in it. I'm trying to escape it.

To use the analogy - it's as if I'm trying to quit drinking, but he's trying to drag me back to the bar.
I'm trying to get out of this lifestyle, because it's not compatible with attraction, which we all know is extremely important to me (and not to him, at all). So I'm trying to save my time, for where it counts, instead of going on long and regular detours from the things that matter to me in life the most.

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here, so try to hang on and follow me.

I'm not entirely sure what road you are talking about, so I could be completely off base and wrong if it's something bad or dangerous or addicting, but I'm going to assume it's not.
You are who you are. How you grew up is part of who you are. Some of it will be bad, but not all of it. There are good sides to most things in life, just as there are bad. That includes friends. Just because a friend does certain things doesn't mean you have to as well. Bars sell soda and good food too. And if you are the DD, most bars will give you free drinks. I'm not sure how it is where you live, but some of the best food around me is from a bar. Hell one bar even took their sauces national. Boundaries can be set outside the home, as well as inside, just make it clear to him what you aren't willing to do.

As for attraction, I think you are beating yourself up too much over that. The right girl for you won't care about your little quirks. She won't care about your nerdy obsessions, hell, she might even go to conventions with you. That is what makes a good relationship, doing things she might not otherwise do to make you happy and you doing things you wouldn't normally do to make her happy. Women want to see YOU, not the person you think they want. And let's be honest, that fortune 500 hottie you think is so classy.....she could be a closet nerd too.
If your dream girl told you the only way she would go out with you is if you threw all your action figures (or whatever you call them) in the trash, would you?

If you try so hard to be something completely different than who you always have been you will burn out, you will lose yourself in the process. That doesn't mean you can't change, but some things you shouldn't change because they are part of who you are. They are part of what makes you happy. They are part of where and who you came from. Don't diminish everything just because you think it's beneath where you want to be. That's not how life works. We are all made up of different things. Some nerdy, some classy, some drunken sailor cursing, some redneck, some...well whatever you want to put. That doesn't make anyone undesirable or less than, it just makes us human. Even fortune 500 CEOs have quirks. You can be a little bit of everything, just don't stray too far in one direction.

 

[okidoke]

and to add to Callie’s words @TheSkaFish maybe YOUR influence on HIM will improve his life.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Guy came over today. Randomly, because of course.

Any time the weather is nice I can almost count on this guy coming over at some point, trying to twist my arm into giving him the rest of the day. It makes me feel as if my time isn't my own, doesn't belong to me.

I was very short. I said I didn't want to get rained on, and that he'd better go home before he gets caught in it.
"Dude, stop bothering me" was on the tip of my tongue. I managed to hold it down.

Gotta love how people that I actually want to talk to, up and disappear on me.

But people that I don't want to talk to, never leave me the hell alone.