Time to give up trying to get a girlfriend?

[TheSkaFish]

You weren't meant to be alone. If you want a girlfriend you have to figure it out. A lot of people seem to have this figured out by high school, but you can catch up.

I know you didn't meant it but that sounded really condescending.

Like: You haven't learned how to tight your shoe laces at 21, but can cath up.

I didn't mean it in a condescending way at all. I strongly dislike smugness and being condescended to, so I wouldn't ever want to be that way unless someone provoked me, which the OP did not.

When I said that a lot of people figured it out early, it was not my intention to shame the OP or to say that he should have this figured out by now. I meant to say that I don't know how people get this mastered at a young age either, but that just because he didn't get it then doesn't mean he can't get it now.

Some say you have to put actions into getting someone, others say you shouldn't be thinking about it and it will happen. Honestly, there isn't a "formula" or right path. It's al random and meaningless. Sometimes there's people who can't "click" attraction to the opposite ***. They may look normal or behave normal but there's something that makes them unappealing. Is like they fall through the cracks for any reason whatsoever. I'm not talking about socially awkward or mentally ill people, just your every day guy or girl.

See, I don't think so. That doesn't explain all of the guys who are attractive to a lot of women and can fairly reliably be with the ones they want, and it doesn't explain the guys who are attractive to almost no women. Either way the results are consistent. Consistency suggests an underlying cause. This is why I believe that "clicking" is in fact not random, but a skill that can be learned, or the result of a state of being that can be attained.

Random chance has not delivered me anyone yet. I don't trust it to change. It must be something I can do to change things myself.

The "somethings" that make us unappealing, I figure, are both things that we should be doing which we aren't, and things that we shouldn't be doing which we are. It's likely a combination of both caused by root underlying beliefs. I've noticed a lot of correlation between my problems with getting a girlfriend and getting a job or getting good at an interest, for example.

I strongly believe that these "somethings" that make us unappealing can be identified and explained. It's not random, there's reasons. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

But I think that when things don't go well, it's because you're doing something wrong somehow.

I don't get this. You recognize this "no so great" people get into relationships, but you assume is your fault that you can't?
Like you're not being mediocre enough to be accepted?
Just because you don't fit into some specific mainframe doesn't mean that you're doing something "wrong", or that there's something wrong with you.

No, not quite. It's more like the opposite. You clearly do not have to be great to be in a relationship. You don't have to be a rock star, professional athlete, or multi-millionaire to attract a girl. I'm saying, I might not be great right now, but these guys aren't either. We're in the same league.

It kinda does mean you're doing something wrong though, because if you were doing something right then you would at least generally be considered attractive. If someone gives an unfavorable impression of themselves accidentally, then they still did something wrong. If there isn't just one "someone" for everyone, then it could very well be you if you play your cards right. I feel like it's not so much the cards you have but how you play them that makes all the difference.

I feel you can date anyone you can get along well with, but you still have to play the attraction/"clicking"/dating game correctly.

You're carrying yourself in an unattractive way, living in an unattractive lifestyle, having unattractive personality traits or mannerisms both to the specific girl in question, and likely to women in general.

There's no way to be decipher this. You say it yourself, all this mediocre guys and girls getting someone. Aren't they carrying themselves as attractive by being "no smarter, no "cooler", no more talented, no more interesting, no more ambitious, no more successful, no better than you at all... etc?
They just happen to be "the norm". They're the majority and they settle the expectations for the general public.

Again, I'm saying that these guys aren't rock stars or professional athletes or anyone that really outclasses any other regular person. They aren't any more capable than I am, or you are, or the OP is.

Usually these guys get by on traits that are effective, but that I personally find distasteful. Still, that's not the only way to be attractive.

Unfortunately there are also a lot of ways to be unattractive, and these things can be particularly insidious because they could be deeply ingrained traits that we've gotten so used to that we think "it's just the way we are". But if it doesn't serve you, do you really want it?

For instance complaining a lot. That's a big one to avoid.

Even when is fair? As long as is not confused with protesting. An even so, I don't understand why complaining should be seen as unattractive. That sounds alot like those "man up" advices that just further stereotypes of masculinity.

I would say it's something to avoid, unless you are complaining about matters of life and death or something. It's a character trait that is generally not received well, even when it is fair. Even if you are just looking to make a friend, you will quickly turn someone off to spending time with you if you have a reputation for complaining a lot. It's considered being a buzzkill.

I didn't naturally understand this either and had to research it to figure it out, but now I see how it makes sense. And I typically don't like it when people simply say to "man up" either, or the stereotypes of masculinity, but there are some grains of truth to it as well.

I think that if you can have a rapport with a girl, if you get along with her well - then you can theoretically date her, if you make the impression that you have the right stuff. If you can have a friend, you can have a girlfriend. I think it's knowing how to play the game. How to play your cards. You can have a lot going for you and play your cards badly, and you can also have not much going for you and play your cards well.

Again, there's no formula. The problem is when there's people that born with the right hand of cards and then, there's the people who are not allowed to play at all.

I think there is a formula though. I try to observe what other guys have done or are doing, that have gotten into relationships. I try to find what actions they have taken, how they carry themselves, how they act and think, what they do with themselves. I try to find what they all have in common.

Similarly I try to look at where I am being unattractive, and try to curb it.

Someone I knew on another forum told me this, on the subject of girls:

"There’s that stuff inside you that always has been, and always will be, attractive to the ladies.

Unsupported claim.

I don't know. I've seen a lot of posts from this guy that make sense, and I look at the results he's gotten. It adds up. It's consistent. I'm inclined to believe it. Living creatures were made to attract each other. Besides, it's a heck of a lot more empowering than believing that I'm just fated to be single forever.

That’s really all you need to attract them.

Doesn't even describe what's the "stuff" in the first place to know if that's all you need.

I don't know for sure what he means either but I think he's suggesting that people overcomplicate things, and in doing so make themselves unattractive by overworrying, thinking lowly of themselves, and things like that. Putting energy into self-defeating thoughts, beliefs, actions, and lifestyles instead of putting it into being your best self.

The problem these days is that most people cover this awesome inner self up with a bunch of ****, blocking it from the surface.

Not deep, not deep at all. Not everyone is "awesome". If everyone was awesome forums like this wouldn't even exists. There's no pandora's box of personality traits hiding in some proverbial cave. People show what they are. It's really rare to have someone who holds his good traits by some trauma. Awesomeness is cultivated and harvested with time and effort, but is not locked in every person by default.

I don't think so. It doesn't explain all the regular people who are in relationships. Not everyone is a superstar, but clearly that is not needed to be attractive, and I do believe that everyone has what it takes to attract someone if they can figure out how to do it.

And what happens when you have a mentality like that? You lose your confidence, you lose your motivation, you lose your vibe, you lose your appreciation of romance.

I have all that.

Perhaps.

This results in social anxiety, overthinking, introversion, etc. because the mind keeps reinforcing its habits.

Those come up on early human development and have genetic influences.

They can still be overcome, though. Or at least curbed enough that they don't make you permanently unattractive or incapable of living a better life.

The only way to change that is to take action. The progress is fast, really, because you’re not learning new skills… just going back to the way things were."

You can take action to change, but most of the time "that" wasn't there.

I think it was though. If we learned all of the root traits early on that develop into what makes us unattractive, then they were not always there. And the real you was, the "you" that was you before we developed any social masks. I'm not sure if the term is correct but the other site I was on referred to it as the ego - what you think is "you".

I'm still trying to figure out what it means, and I admit, my track record is, shall we say, not the best. However, I know enough to know the gist of this message is that it's not impossible. Don't give up. When you give up you let the *******s win.

Who are the *******s?

To me, the *******s are the forces, the powers that be that want to keep you down so they can gain.

But, I don't feel anyone should give up on something they want.

For once, I agree with you.

It's not so much giving up, but to be open the possibility that isn't going to happen. Doesn't matter if you want it or not.

Well then, that's not a possibility that I want to be open to.

How much is young? I'm about to be 28. I don't want to think in deadlines, but 35 seems to be the age I'll give up.

There is no age limit on this.

There's death.

You got me there.

I don't know anything about you but to be resigned to being alone is nonsense.

You're right about that.

I don't know anything about OP either, so I won't pretend I can just dismiss his experience and understand his decision better than him.

I'm not dismissing his experience. From his story it sounds pretty bad. My experience was pretty bad. But I don't think that telling ourselves that it's impossible, that we're just fundamentally inferior, is helping anything. It's a limiting belief. No one ever got what they wanted by telling themselves they couldn't have it. I've done that all my life, and this is where I've ended up. I look at other people who told themselves all their lives that they COULD get what they want, and they got it. In both cases, beliefs manifested in reality. I see that my beliefs were wrong, and had I chosen to believe in myself then perhaps my problem could have been overcome. But I know it won't as long as I keep telling myself the problem is that I'm just not good enough. That belief makes me feel like crap and that there's no use in trying, so when I do get an opportunity, I do it with the belief that I'm going to fail anyway, so I don't do my best. That hasn't worked. Another way has. I know which one I'd rather believe.

---

I'm sorry if you feel that I've taken a harsh tone with you, Xpendable. That was not my intention. I just strongly feel like attracting a romantic partner is far from impossible. But also, if you tell yourself that you can't do it or aren't good enough, then I believe that's exactly what will happen.

 

[Destaric]

[/quote]

Is it important to also be a catch, so you can meet the standards of some highly selective individual who is too proud for their own good?
[/quote]

That's the thing..everyone is a catch. Some people have different likes and needs then others..some might like the guy with money..while some like the guy who loves them unconditionally even if the bank account is in the negatives at the end of the month..some like the geeky looking men (like myself) and some like the battered up looking tough guys. It works both ways too..I had an opportunity years ago with an incredibly beautiful girl but her personality just did not click with me..looks are important but to what extent? Its what inside that will truly determine if its meant to be or not..a wonderful personality in the end is the most important thing one can offer.

I have had women absolutely drooling over my body and looks but they ended up becoming more attracted to my personality. That makes me sound like a player but I am hardly not considering I am 31 and slept with only 2 women lol! But I had a severe confidence and anxiety issue and suffered from depresson and that ended up pushing them away..while those things wont always push someone away is it not important to work on those things first? Be the happiest you can be on your own?

 

[Triple Bogey]

Nobody has been interested in me for 15 years and that was a crazy woman.
A woman who had learning difficulties had a crush on me in the mid 90's.
Both were a lot older than me at the time.

That's it for interest. Nothing else. And I mean nothing. Never been chatted up in my life, no flirting, no eye contact, no dances, no dates (apart from online when they didn't know me before the first date) - I can't ******** myself thinking somebody was interested because they weren't. No interest whatsoever.

I am at the bottom of the pile, always have been, the lowest of the low. If men were ranked, I would be in the bottom 1% definitely. If 20 guys went speed dating and 19 women were told to pick a guy, I would be the odd one out, the one not picked. I never get picked, I get ignored.

But I know all this so it doesn't hurt anymore and I am happy with my lot. I have my family and my hobbies. I have money in the bank and a good job.

 

[BeyondShy]

Nobody has been interested in me for 15 years and that was a crazy woman.
A woman who had learning difficulties had a crush on me in the mid 90's.
Both were a lot older than me at the time.

That's it for interest. Nothing else. And I mean nothing. Never been chatted up in my life, no flirting, no eye contact, no dances, no dates (apart from online when they didn't know me before the first date) - I can't ******** myself thinking somebody was interested because they weren't. No interest whatsoever.

I am at the bottom of the pile, always have been, the lowest of the low. If men were ranked, I would be in the bottom 1% definitely. If 20 guys went speed dating and 19 women were told to pick a guy, I would be the odd one out, the one not picked. I never get picked, I get ignored.

But I know all this so it doesn't hurt anymore and I am happy with my lot. I have my family and my hobbies. I have money in the bank and a good job.

I wouldn't know what to do if someone does show an interest in me. Well, no, I take that back. I'd immediately question it and wonder where it is coming from and why.

 

[Triple Bogey]

Nobody has been interested in me for 15 years and that was a crazy woman.
A woman who had learning difficulties had a crush on me in the mid 90's.
Both were a lot older than me at the time.

That's it for interest. Nothing else. And I mean nothing. Never been chatted up in my life, no flirting, no eye contact, no dances, no dates (apart from online when they didn't know me before the first date) - I can't ******** myself thinking somebody was interested because they weren't. No interest whatsoever.

I am at the bottom of the pile, always have been, the lowest of the low. If men were ranked, I would be in the bottom 1% definitely. If 20 guys went speed dating and 19 women were told to pick a guy, I would be the odd one out, the one not picked. I never get picked, I get ignored.

But I know all this so it doesn't hurt anymore and I am happy with my lot. I have my family and my hobbies. I have money in the bank and a good job.

I wouldn't know what to do if someone does show an interest in me. Well, no, I take that back. I'd immediately question it and wonder where it is coming from and why.

Because of the way I am, some women do feel sorry for me. I call it sponsor a donkey. They are nice to me and smile. And show interest. Nothing ever romantic though, won't happen.

 

[there is no hope]

Nobody has been interested in me for 15 years and that was a crazy woman.
A woman who had learning difficulties had a crush on me in the mid 90's.
Both were a lot older than me at the time.

That's it for interest. Nothing else. And I mean nothing. Never been chatted up in my life, no flirting, no eye contact, no dances, no dates (apart from online when they didn't know me before the first date) - I can't ******** myself thinking somebody was interested because they weren't. No interest whatsoever.

I am at the bottom of the pile, always have been, the lowest of the low. If men were ranked, I would be in the bottom 1% definitely. If 20 guys went speed dating and 19 women were told to pick a guy, I would be the odd one out, the one not picked. I never get picked, I get ignored.

But I know all this so it doesn't hurt anymore and I am happy with my lot. I have my family and my hobbies. I have money in the bank and a good job.

Realistically, the bottom 1% of men are those who are institutionalized in some way. I doubt you're at that stage, if that makes you feel better. Somehow I think it doesn't. I know that if I were in the hypothetical speed dating pool, you'd at least be #19.

Now that I know better, I would much rather have money in the bank and a reliable income stream than all the problems that a woman would bring. Unfortunately I have neither.

 

[BeyondShy]

Because of the way I am, some women do feel sorry for me. I call it sponsor a donkey. They are nice to me and smile. And show interest. Nothing ever romantic though, won't happen.

I just can not accept this. I still believe there is someone for everyone.

 

[Triple Bogey]

Nobody has been interested in me for 15 years and that was a crazy woman.
A woman who had learning difficulties had a crush on me in the mid 90's.
Both were a lot older than me at the time.

That's it for interest. Nothing else. And I mean nothing. Never been chatted up in my life, no flirting, no eye contact, no dances, no dates (apart from online when they didn't know me before the first date) - I can't ******** myself thinking somebody was interested because they weren't. No interest whatsoever.

I am at the bottom of the pile, always have been, the lowest of the low. If men were ranked, I would be in the bottom 1% definitely. If 20 guys went speed dating and 19 women were told to pick a guy, I would be the odd one out, the one not picked. I never get picked, I get ignored.

But I know all this so it doesn't hurt anymore and I am happy with my lot. I have my family and my hobbies. I have money in the bank and a good job.

Realistically, the bottom 1% of men are those who are institutionalized in some way. I doubt you're at that stage, if that makes you feel better. Somehow I think it doesn't. I know that if I were in the hypothetical speed dating pool, you'd at least be #19.

Now that I know better, I would much rather have money in the bank and a reliable income stream than all the problems that a woman would bring. Unfortunately I have neither.

Everything else about my life is good.

---

Because of the way I am, some women do feel sorry for me. I call it sponsor a donkey. They are nice to me and smile. And show interest. Nothing ever romantic though, won't happen.

I just can not accept this. I still believe there is someone for everyone.

Why do you think this ?

'There is someone for everyone' - is just a saying. No proof of it of it been true. I reckon loads of people go their whole lives without any interest from the other ***. Normal people as well.

 

[SofiasMami]

Nobody has been interested in me for 15 years and that was a crazy woman.
A woman who had learning difficulties had a crush on me in the mid 90's.
Both were a lot older than me at the time.

That's it for interest. Nothing else. And I mean nothing. Never been chatted up in my life, no flirting, no eye contact, no dances, no dates (apart from online when they didn't know me before the first date) - I can't ******** myself thinking somebody was interested because they weren't. No interest whatsoever.

I am at the bottom of the pile, always have been, the lowest of the low. If men were ranked, I would be in the bottom 1% definitely. If 20 guys went speed dating and 19 women were told to pick a guy, I would be the odd one out, the one not picked. I never get picked, I get ignored.

But I know all this so it doesn't hurt anymore and I am happy with my lot. I have my family and my hobbies. I have money in the bank and a good job.

Aw, don't be so hard on yourself, TB. I think you're a good guy.

-Teresa

 

[Triple Bogey]

Nobody has been interested in me for 15 years and that was a crazy woman.
A woman who had learning difficulties had a crush on me in the mid 90's.
Both were a lot older than me at the time.

That's it for interest. Nothing else. And I mean nothing. Never been chatted up in my life, no flirting, no eye contact, no dances, no dates (apart from online when they didn't know me before the first date) - I can't ******** myself thinking somebody was interested because they weren't. No interest whatsoever.

I am at the bottom of the pile, always have been, the lowest of the low. If men were ranked, I would be in the bottom 1% definitely. If 20 guys went speed dating and 19 women were told to pick a guy, I would be the odd one out, the one not picked. I never get picked, I get ignored.

But I know all this so it doesn't hurt anymore and I am happy with my lot. I have my family and my hobbies. I have money in the bank and a good job.

Aw, don't be so hard on yourself, TB. I think you're a good guy.

-Teresa

Thank you.

I think I'm a good guy too !

 

[Destaric]

There is someone for everyone..got to keep positive

 

[Triple Bogey]

There is someone for everyone..got to keep positive

Where is my someone then ?

 

[Xpendable]

I didn't mean it in a condescending way at all.

I know you didn't. I said it.

When I said that a lot of people figured it out early, it was not my intention to shame the OP or to say that he should have this figured out by now.

But it sure sounds like something that should be easy. What makes someone look pathetic when they don't accomplish it. If it depended on me, I wouldn't care, but it's not me who makes those rules.

I meant to say that I don't know how people get this mastered at a young age either, but that just because he didn't get it then doesn't mean he can't get it now.

Mastering comes from practice. Like playing an instrument or a sport.
People don't "practice" to get a partner at young age, it just happens. Because there's no enough knowledge at that time to evaluate what constitute social inadequacy, or how social dynamics work to know if you're doing something wrong to actually try to "master" it. If it where about mastering it would be more understandable that some failed. But honestly it feels like failing to learn to walk.

Some say you have to put actions into getting someone, others say you shouldn't be thinking about it and it will happen. Honestly, there isn't a "formula" or right path. It's al random and meaningless. Sometimes there's people who can't "click" attraction to the opposite ***. They may look normal or behave normal but there's something that makes them unappealing. Is like they fall through the cracks for any reason whatsoever. I'm not talking about socially awkward or mentally ill people, just your every day guy or girl.

See, I don't think so. That doesn't explain all of the guys who are attractive to a lot of women and can fairly reliably be with the ones they want, and it doesn't explain the guys who are attractive to almost no women.
Either way the results are consistent. Consistency suggests an underlying cause. This is why I believe that "clicking" is in fact not random, but a skill that can be learned, or the result of a state of being that can be attained.

It doesn't need to be "explained" in the sense of why some people have nothing wrong but them but can't attract anyone. Attraction is like a creek with a rock in the middle. Most water will go right or left, but once in a while a drop will jump right on the middle. We organize people on categories and there's not only "successfully attractive" and "desirable" on those categories. It's a big grey area where many people fall into and drive themselves between the extremes. As for why a section of "unexplained undesirability" can exists? I don't know. You can agree with me or not about it. I've seen normal guys just remain invisible to women for no apparent reason. Their only fault would be some shyness but not the type of shyness that you imagine. Just not charismatic. I know a guy that has a big heart, nice personality, average looking, makes good money, plays guitar and so on. But he's a little more shy than the norm and he's invisible too. I know it hurts him but I identify with him. I think there's many more like him out there. Lonely drops.

Random chance has not delivered me anyone yet. I don't trust it to change. It must be something I can do to change things myself.

You can change yourself and that's good, but your results will still be random.

The "somethings" that make us unappealing, I figure, are both things that we should be doing which we aren't, and things that we shouldn't be doing which we are. It's likely a combination of both caused by root underlying beliefs. I've noticed a lot of correlation between my problems with getting a girlfriend and getting a job or getting good at an interest, for example.

That makes sense and I think a correlation can be deducted, but you're falsely regarding what you should be doing and not doing as objectively right or wrong. Meaning that your inadequacy depends only on what society decides what you should be doing and what you shouldn't. This can have biological roots as well. Nature (society) tells a peacock that its feathers should be bigger and colorful to attract a mate, but at the same time, bigger feathers mean less mobility and more visibility to predators. There's nothing that ensures that what you should be doing or not doing must be perfectly compatible with an empirical application of biological and sociological health.
What it's required to be socially successful is not necessarily compatible with being mentally or physically healthy.

I strongly believe that these "somethings" that make us unappealing can be identified and explained. It's not random, there's reasons. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Error of concepts: Random doesn't automatically means unexplained. Yes, those traits can be explained (in fact I think I know them but there's no time now), but the origin that makes them unappealing it's random. My analogy of the peacock endures: We know that the feathers are the "somethings", but the origin of the preference of female peacocks for big feathers is random. Random also doesn't mean it came from nothing, but that it was determined by external, unpredictable factors.

Another analogy: Think in a couple of dices. The numbers that we get are random, but we can explain the result by knowing certain "somethings" about them. We can know their shape, their weight, the initial speed, the angle and acceleration of the fall, etc. But at the end, the final numbers will be random. Because the origin of the laws of physics are random. As the origin of mate preference in humans (and evolution over time) have random origins and random factors that can alter what you should be doing and what you shouldn't.

I don't get this. You recognize this "no so great" people get into relationships, but you assume is your fault that you can't?
Like you're not being mediocre enough to be accepted?
Just because you don't fit into some specific mainframe doesn't mean that you're doing something "wrong", or that there's something wrong with you.

No, not quite. It's more like the opposite. You clearly do not have to be great to be in a relationship. You don't have to be a rock star, professional athlete, or multi-millionaire to attract a girl. I'm saying, I might not be great right now, but these guys aren't either. We're in the same league.

Same league =/= same perception. Obviously women don't think the same as you. Can't they be wrong? Is such a crime to consider that?
Have you realized why THEY perceive you that way instead of why you perceive yourself that way?
I would prefer to be alone forever that the possibility of being on the same league of those who require nothing more than randomness to have company.

It kinda does mean you're doing something wrong though, because if you were doing something right then you would at least generally be considered attractive.

In an ideal world, yes.

If someone gives an unfavorable impression of themselves accidentally, then they still did something wrong.

It's easier to blame the player than the game. Even when the game is rigged.

I feel like it's not so much the cards you have but how you play them that makes all the difference.

What good does a card makes when the rules of the game change arbitrarily?

Again, I'm saying that these guys aren't rock stars or professional athletes or anyone that really outclasses any other regular person. They aren't any more capable than I am, or you are, or the OP is.
Usually these guys get by on traits that are effective, but that I personally find distasteful. Still, that's not the only way to be attractive.

Would you prefer to be effective and distasteful than better an ineffective? If not, then what are this other ways to be attractive?

It's a character trait that is generally not received well, even when it is fair. Even if you are just looking to make a friend, you will quickly turn someone off to spending time with you if you have a reputation for complaining a lot. It's considered being a buzzkill.

Buzzkill is codename for realist.

I think that if you
I think there is a formula though. I try to observe what other guys have done or are doing, that have gotten into relationships. I try to find what actions they have taken, how they carry themselves, how they act and think, what they do with themselves. I try to find what they all have in common.

They all have in common that their brains are wired different from my own. You can't change that. You can't assimilate behavior consciously. If you're self-aware then you're are not really like them. You can become like them under extreme settings maybe, but it would take a life time and it would erase the first you.

I don't know. I've seen a lot of posts from this guy that make sense, and I look at the results he's gotten.

If he's a pua then I don't care. I don't want to hook up, I want to fill this void of intimacy with a human being, not get validation for imitating behavior and manipulation.

Living creatures were made to attract each other.

Made to "reproduce", not necessarily to attract 100% of the time.

Besides, it's a heck of a lot more empowering than believing that I'm just fated to be single forever.

May empowering be a good source of consolation rather than a cold reality. I can relate to that.

Not everyone is a superstar, but clearly that is not needed to be attractive, and I do believe that everyone has what it takes to attract someone if they can figure out how to do it.

If you have to figure it out you're being left behind. Getting away from that is the real struggle.

To me, the *******s are the forces, the powers that be that want to keep you down so they can gain.

Ok...?

Well then, that's not a possibility that I want to be open to.

Doesn't make the possibility any less real. I won't try to convince anyway. I was in that position some time ago. My hope has decreased since then.

I don't think that telling ourselves that it's impossible, that we're just fundamentally inferior, is helping anything.

Fundamentally different. Someday I can attract with my feathers, next day I got eaten by a wild cat. All with the same means.

It's a limiting belief. No one ever got what they wanted by telling themselves they couldn't have it. I've done that all my life, and this is where I've ended up. I look at other people who told themselves all their lives that they COULD get what they want, and they got it. In both cases, beliefs manifested in reality. I see that my beliefs were wrong, and had I chosen to believe in myself then perhaps my problem could have been overcome. But I know it won't as long as I keep telling myself the problem is that I'm just not good enough. That belief makes me feel like crap and that there's no use in trying, so when I do get an opportunity, I do it with the belief that I'm going to fail anyway, so I don't do my best. That hasn't worked. Another way has. I know which one I'd rather believe.

Beliefs are nothing. Sorry if that sounds insulting. You're right when you say they can affect YOU. But it doesn't go further.
Beliefs won't change the outcome of the universe. Beliefs won't make your dream girl cross the same street, at the same time or another the same shop. Beliefs won't reorder events to accommodate your happiness. A grain of salt can't change the tides of the ocean. Existence is not malleable or made for you. It took me many years to understand this and perhaps that changed me. You can try to change your near environment with changing yourself; that sounds rather possible. But there's nothing that guarantees a reward for doing so, because those factors are beyond our control.

I'm sorry if you feel that I've taken a harsh tone with you, Xpendable.

You're actually the most civil and respectful user that has disagreeing with me.

I just strongly feel like attracting a romantic partner is far from impossible.

I do too. My point is that what is possible or not is not controlled by us.

But also, if you tell yourself that you can't do it or aren't good enough, then I believe that's exactly what will happen.

Would you believe that "non-rockstar" people never doubted their capacities?
That no self-defeating guys never attracted anyone?
It's all a rule of thumb. There's guys out there who are absolutely horrible. Negative, lazy, cynical, sarcastic, low self-esteem, evious, dishonest, petty, unintelligent, vengative, slimy, shy, awkward, hesitant, non confrontational, socially inept, uncreative, bland, boring and total buzzkills.
And they still manage to hear "I love you" in some point in their lives. They're out there and make me remember that we don't control the universe.

 

[Destaric]

There is someone for everyone..got to keep positive

Where is my someone then ?

Patience. Everyone has different speeds when it comes to this. 90% of my friends are in realationships..Some sooner some later but the majority of them seemed to have found their significant others when not looking or obsessing over it. It does seem to come easier to others but you cant worry about others and just focus on your own speed..when you meet the right person it all just happens naturally through fate and even chemical bonding. I have not met my right one either but I know shes out there. have faith!

 

[beautiful loser]

I didn't mean it in a condescending way at all.

I know you didn't. I said it.

When I said that a lot of people figured it out early, it was not my intention to shame the OP or to say that he should have this figured out by now.

But it sure sounds like something that should be easy. What makes someone look pathetic when they don't accomplish it. If it depended on me, I wouldn't care, but it's not me who makes those rules.

I meant to say that I don't know how people get this mastered at a young age either, but that just because he didn't get it then doesn't mean he can't get it now.

Mastering comes from practice. Like playing an instrument or a sport.
People don't "practice" to get a partner at young age, it just happens. Because there's no enough knowledge at that time to evaluate what constitute social inadequacy, or how social dynamics work to know if you're doing something wrong to actually try to "master" it. If it where about mastering it would be more understandable that some failed. But honestly it feels like failing to learn to walk.

Some say you have to put actions into getting someone, others say you shouldn't be thinking about it and it will happen. Honestly, there isn't a "formula" or right path. It's al random and meaningless. Sometimes there's people who can't "click" attraction to the opposite ***. They may look normal or behave normal but there's something that makes them unappealing. Is like they fall through the cracks for any reason whatsoever. I'm not talking about socially awkward or mentally ill people, just your every day guy or girl.

See, I don't think so. That doesn't explain all of the guys who are attractive to a lot of women and can fairly reliably be with the ones they want, and it doesn't explain the guys who are attractive to almost no women.
Either way the results are consistent. Consistency suggests an underlying cause. This is why I believe that "clicking" is in fact not random, but a skill that can be learned, or the result of a state of being that can be attained.

It doesn't need to be "explained" in the sense of why some people have nothing wrong but them but can't attract anyone. Attraction is like a creek with a rock in the middle. Most water will go right or left, but once in a while a drop will jump right on the middle. We organize people on categories and there's not only "successfully attractive" and "desirable" on those categories. It's a big grey area where many people fall into and drive themselves between the extremes. As for why a section of "unexplained undesirability" can exists? I don't know. You can agree with me or not about it. I've seen normal guys just remain invisible to women for no apparent reason. Their only fault would be some shyness but not the type of shyness that you imagine. Just not charismatic. I know a guy that has a big heart, nice personality, average looking, makes good money, plays guitar and so on. But he's a little more shy than the norm and he's invisible too. I know it hurts him but I identify with him. I think there's many more like him out there. Lonely drops.

Random chance has not delivered me anyone yet. I don't trust it to change. It must be something I can do to change things myself.

You can change yourself and that's good, but your results will still be random.

The "somethings" that make us unappealing, I figure, are both things that we should be doing which we aren't, and things that we shouldn't be doing which we are. It's likely a combination of both caused by root underlying beliefs. I've noticed a lot of correlation between my problems with getting a girlfriend and getting a job or getting good at an interest, for example.

That makes sense and I think a correlation can be deducted, but you're falsely regarding what you should be doing and not doing as objectively right or wrong. Meaning that your inadequacy depends only on what society decides what you should be doing and what you shouldn't. This can have biological roots as well. Nature (society) tells a peacock that its feathers should be bigger and colorful to attract a mate, but at the same time, bigger feathers mean less mobility and more visibility to predators. There's nothing that ensures that what you should be doing or not doing must be perfectly compatible with an empirical application of biological and sociological health.
What it's required to be socially successful is not necessarily compatible with being mentally or physically healthy.

I strongly believe that these "somethings" that make us unappealing can be identified and explained. It's not random, there's reasons. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Error of concepts: Random doesn't automatically means unexplained. Yes, those traits can be explained (in fact I think I know them but there's no time now), but the origin that makes them unappealing it's random. My analogy of the peacock endures: We know that the feathers are the "somethings", but the origin of the preference of female peacocks for big feathers is random. Random also doesn't mean it came from nothing, but that it was determined by external, unpredictable factors.

Another analogy: Think in a couple of dices. The numbers that we get are random, but we can explain the result by knowing certain "somethings" about them. We can know their shape, their weight, the initial speed, the angle and acceleration of the fall, etc. But at the end, the final numbers will be random. Because the origin of the laws of physics are random. As the origin of mate preference in humans (and evolution over time) have random origins and random factors that can alter what you should be doing and what you shouldn't.

I don't get this. You recognize this "no so great" people get into relationships, but you assume is your fault that you can't?
Like you're not being mediocre enough to be accepted?
Just because you don't fit into some specific mainframe doesn't mean that you're doing something "wrong", or that there's something wrong with you.

No, not quite. It's more like the opposite. You clearly do not have to be great to be in a relationship. You don't have to be a rock star, professional athlete, or multi-millionaire to attract a girl. I'm saying, I might not be great right now, but these guys aren't either. We're in the same league.

Same league =/= same perception. Obviously women don't think the same as you. Can't they be wrong? Is such a crime to consider that?
Have you realized why THEY perceive you that way instead of why you perceive yourself that way?
I would prefer to be alone forever that the possibility of being on the same league of those who require nothing more than randomness to have company.

It kinda does mean you're doing something wrong though, because if you were doing something right then you would at least generally be considered attractive.

In an ideal world, yes.

If someone gives an unfavorable impression of themselves accidentally, then they still did something wrong.

It's easier to blame the player than the game. Even when the game is rigged.

I feel like it's not so much the cards you have but how you play them that makes all the difference.

What good does a card makes when the rules of the game change arbitrarily?

Again, I'm saying that these guys aren't rock stars or professional athletes or anyone that really outclasses any other regular person. They aren't any more capable than I am, or you are, or the OP is.
Usually these guys get by on traits that are effective, but that I personally find distasteful. Still, that's not the only way to be attractive.

Would you prefer to be effective and distasteful than better an ineffective? If not, then what are this other ways to be attractive?

It's a character trait that is generally not received well, even when it is fair. Even if you are just looking to make a friend, you will quickly turn someone off to spending time with you if you have a reputation for complaining a lot. It's considered being a buzzkill.

Buzzkill is codename for realist.

I think that if you
I think there is a formula though. I try to observe what other guys have done or are doing, that have gotten into relationships. I try to find what actions they have taken, how they carry themselves, how they act and think, what they do with themselves. I try to find what they all have in common.

They all have in common that their brains are wired different from my own. You can't change that. You can't assimilate behavior consciously. If you're self-aware then you're are not really like them. You can become like them under extreme settings maybe, but it would take a life time and it would erase the first you.

I don't know. I've seen a lot of posts from this guy that make sense, and I look at the results he's gotten.

If he's a pua then I don't care. I don't want to hook up, I want to fill this void of intimacy with a human being, not get validation for imitating behavior and manipulation.

Living creatures were made to attract each other.

Made to "reproduce", not necessarily to attract 100% of the time.

Besides, it's a heck of a lot more empowering than believing that I'm just fated to be single forever.

May empowering be a good source of consolation rather than a cold reality. I can relate to that.

Not everyone is a superstar, but clearly that is not needed to be attractive, and I do believe that everyone has what it takes to attract someone if they can figure out how to do it.

If you have to figure it out you're being left behind. Getting away from that is the real struggle.

To me, the *******s are the forces, the powers that be that want to keep you down so they can gain.

Ok...?

Well then, that's not a possibility that I want to be open to.

Doesn't make the possibility any less real. I won't try to convince anyway. I was in that position some time ago. My hope has decreased since then.

I don't think that telling ourselves that it's impossible, that we're just fundamentally inferior, is helping anything.

Fundamentally different. Someday I can attract with my feathers, next day I got eaten by a wild cat. All with the same means.

It's a limiting belief. No one ever got what they wanted by telling themselves they couldn't have it. I've done that all my life, and this is where I've ended up. I look at other people who told themselves all their lives that they COULD get what they want, and they got it. In both cases, beliefs manifested in reality. I see that my beliefs were wrong, and had I chosen to believe in myself then perhaps my problem could have been overcome. But I know it won't as long as I keep telling myself the problem is that I'm just not good enough. That belief makes me feel like crap and that there's no use in trying, so when I do get an opportunity, I do it with the belief that I'm going to fail anyway, so I don't do my best. That hasn't worked. Another way has. I know which one I'd rather believe.

Beliefs are nothing. Sorry if that sounds insulting. You're right when you say they can affect YOU. But it doesn't go further.
Beliefs won't change the outcome of the universe. Beliefs won't make your dream girl cross the same street, at the same time or another the same shop. Beliefs won't reorder events to accommodate your happiness. A grain of salt can't change the tides of the ocean. Existence is not malleable or made for you. It took me many years to understand this and perhaps that changed me. You can try to change your near environment with changing yourself; that sounds rather possible. But there's nothing that guarantees a reward for doing so, because those factors are beyond our control.

I'm sorry if you feel that I've taken a harsh tone with you, Xpendable.

You're actually the most civil and respectful user that has disagreeing with me.

I just strongly feel like attracting a romantic partner is far from impossible.

I do too. My point is that what is possible or not is not controlled by us.

But also, if you tell yourself that you can't do it or aren't good enough, then I believe that's exactly what will happen.

Would you believe that "non-rockstar" people never doubted their capacities?
That no self-defeating guys never attracted anyone?
It's all a rule of thumb. There's guys out there who are absolutely horrible. Negative, lazy, cynical, sarcastic, low self-esteem, evious, dishonest, petty, unintelligent, vengative, slimy, shy, awkward, hesitant, non confrontational, socially inept, uncreative, bland, boring and total buzzkills.
And they still manage to hear "I love you" in some point in their lives. They're out there and make me remember that we don't control the universe.

Would I be an *** if I just mention that this might be the longest post I've ever seen on this site? And if you think I'm an ***, I might have to agree with you

 

[TheRealCallie]

Would I be an *** if I just mention that this might be the longest post I've ever seen on this site? And if you think I'm an ***, I might have to agree with you

I think I've seen longer. lol

 

[beautiful loser]

Would I be an *** if I just mention that this might be the longest post I've ever seen on this site? And if you think I'm an ***, I might have to agree with you

I think I've seen longer. lol

That's what she said. Oh come on, you knew that was coming

 

[BeyondShy]

This is hard to follow now.

 

[Xpendable]

This is hard to follow now.

Basically:

It may ot may not be a point in a person's age in which the pursuit of a partner is pointless. Some argue that other things can be drove to ocupate that void (job, hobbies, fitness) and others insist in that is never too late.