What does "I love you" mean?

[Tealeaf]

I've never experienced mutual romantic love as I define it, with someone's safety, happiness, and health being a precious thing. It's always taken a back seat to something more base, such as sex, control, etc. Maybe the love of friends, which I've based my knowledge of love on, is just inexplicably better than the love of a mate, though. I've seen very little to convince me that it isn't true.

I think you're right in that sense, having a loving friendship first is crucial to building a lasting romance. I think that's very important. Maybe if your mate was your friend first, that could convince you?

I've tried it with no success. I still hadn't known them long enough to be able to pick up on the less obvious red flags. The only people I trust when they say they love or care about me are people I've known for at least 6-8 months, and it's not fair to make anyone wait that long before I start really getting attached to them, too. By then, the relationship between two people is usually pretty firmly established as a friend or as a lover, anyway. Maybe I'm not cut out for this stuff.

I guess I'm not unhappy, though. While this is the longest stretch of time I've been single, it's also been one of the happiest thus far since early childhood. Well, not happy, but peaceful and introspective, perhaps. My problems are things that either can or cannot be fixed, and they're fairly predictable things that can be dealt with logically and are guaranteed to bring me more happiness and stability in life if I work on them. Nothing at all like waking up to crazy every day and defusing it only to find more crazy the next morning.

 

[perfanoff]

I've never experienced mutual romantic love as I define it, with someone's safety, happiness, and health being a precious thing. It's always taken a back seat to something more base, such as sex, control, etc. Maybe the love of friends, which I've based my knowledge of love on, is just inexplicably better than the love of a mate, though. I've seen very little to convince me that it isn't true.

I think you're right in that sense, having a loving friendship first is crucial to building a lasting romance. I think that's very important. Maybe if your mate was your friend first, that could convince you?

I've tried it with no success. I still hadn't known them long enough to be able to pick up on the less obvious red flags. The only people I trust when they say they love or care about me are people I've known for at least 6-8 months, and it's not fair to make anyone wait that long before I start really getting attached to them, too. By then, the relationship between two people is usually pretty firmly established as a friend or as a lover, anyway. Maybe I'm not cut out for this stuff.

I guess I'm not unhappy, though. While this is the longest stretch of time I've been single, it's also been one of the happiest thus far since early childhood. Well, not happy, but peaceful and introspective, perhaps. My problems are things that either can or cannot be fixed, and they're fairly predictable things that can be dealt with logically and are guaranteed to bring me more happiness and stability in life if I work on them. Nothing at all like waking up to crazy every day and defusing it only to find more crazy the next morning.

So I take it, you're one of the "friend zone" type of girls? There's other people that prefer to take it slow, for example myself.

 

[Tealeaf]

I've never experienced mutual romantic love as I define it, with someone's safety, happiness, and health being a precious thing. It's always taken a back seat to something more base, such as sex, control, etc. Maybe the love of friends, which I've based my knowledge of love on, is just inexplicably better than the love of a mate, though. I've seen very little to convince me that it isn't true.

I think you're right in that sense, having a loving friendship first is crucial to building a lasting romance. I think that's very important. Maybe if your mate was your friend first, that could convince you?

I've tried it with no success. I still hadn't known them long enough to be able to pick up on the less obvious red flags. The only people I trust when they say they love or care about me are people I've known for at least 6-8 months, and it's not fair to make anyone wait that long before I start really getting attached to them, too. By then, the relationship between two people is usually pretty firmly established as a friend or as a lover, anyway. Maybe I'm not cut out for this stuff.

I guess I'm not unhappy, though. While this is the longest stretch of time I've been single, it's also been one of the happiest thus far since early childhood. Well, not happy, but peaceful and introspective, perhaps. My problems are things that either can or cannot be fixed, and they're fairly predictable things that can be dealt with logically and are guaranteed to bring me more happiness and stability in life if I work on them. Nothing at all like waking up to crazy every day and defusing it only to find more crazy the next morning.

So I take it, you're one of the "friend zone" type of girls? There's other people that prefer to take it slow, for example myself.

My friends are my friends and not lovers in waiting (I don't tolerate ambiguity), so I don't know what you mean by "friend zone girls." The last guy who said he'd take it slow said "I love you" after two weeks, which is code for pretty much everything but love. What people say and what they mean/are capable of are two completely different things, especially when someone who "loves" me can also spike my drink. Try to understand my skepticism.

 

[perfanoff]

I referred to friend zone girls as women who will either get together with someone very fast or when that chance is over, they will never consider a relationship.

I am genuinely not interested in a person that I don't know. By taking it slow I meant it more as in my interest ramps up quite slowly, and I keep my distance if things start going too fast. This is because physical attraction/"chemistry" is not enough for me to get out of my comfort zone and push things through. I've accepted a few "relationships" where the girl would be very aggressive to get me, and in hindsight, it was like playing the lottery - we have ended up bad matches for each other so far.

I wish you would consider dating some of your friends in the future, if they are sexually attracted to you, you will know exactly what you are signing up for.

 

[Tealeaf]

I referred to friend zone girls as women who will either get together with someone very fast or when that chance is over, they will never consider a relationship.

I am genuinely not interested in a person that I don't know. By taking it slow I meant it more as in my interest ramps up quite slowly, and I keep my distance if things start going too fast. This is because physical attraction/"chemistry" is not enough for me to get out of my comfort zone and push things through. I've accepted a few "relationships" where the girl would be very aggressive to get me, and in hindsight, it was like playing the lottery - we have ended up bad matches for each other so far.

I wish you would consider dating some of your friends in the future, if they are sexually attracted to you, you will know exactly what you are signing up for.

I don't follow any silliness along the lines of "If she doesn't put out by the third date, she's not into you!" but after a certain period of time, people do have established habits and lines of thinking. After 6-8 months, someone else will most certainly have moved on or been dating elsewhere, requiring both of us to steer a still-developing friendship away from thoughts of sex and romance to preserve peace and simplicity (and fairness to other dates, since no one wants a "friend" hanging around their new beau).

The growth of trees can be manipulated and so can friendships, but both of them are much less malleable once mature. A change from friendship to romance means a change of priorities and protocol. People continue to grow, too, and after a year or two of us being occupied elsewhere we might have passed the point at which it would have been possible for us to grow together as people who plan to live as lovers. Our paths and personalities may have become incompatible as we were influenced by all kinds of things not each other.

There's also the common assumption that if people are either attracted to each other or care deeply for each other, they're obviously a good match. They may be heading in completely different directions and/or incapable of handling long distance (the problems with one who would otherwise be a good match at this point).

No relationship is worth bringing that kind of strife into the life of someone precious by pushing it. I see no reason to try to force a change, lest I become one of those people with no close, happy friendships because I've complicated and thrown them all out of whack in my search for a mate. I've seen the lives of such people and it makes me wince.

 

[perfanoff]

This is the thing with friends though, you can know if you are actually on the same page in life and get something IF it is currently worth it.

I think that a fulfilled relationship is much, much more than any friendship may provide and I am definitely willing to risk those friendships in favor of getting something better. It is fair for me to try because I cannot fathom a situation where my only friend will be a woman that I have grown interested in.

But yes, definitely a year of two of being after spending a lot of time together, it probably won't work out.. there needs to be change of important factors (like life events.. changes in relationship stata) then it would be hard for the two friends to get together.

Thank you for sharing your view. You've got a point in it and possibly the biggest reason for this discussion is that sometimes I like to be a bit of a dreamer.