What it means to be truly ugly.

[TheRealCallie]

Yeah I agree with this, studies show another reason for sexless marriages is because women tend to feign ignorance in the bedroom due to societal views on women and sex. So don't often feel empowered or confident to be truthful about what they like and blah de blah.

So yeah, they can do all the studies they want, but until that stigma on women goes away, I don't see how it could ever be accurate. Even if it's annonymous, a lot of women still aren't going to want to admit it.

 

[4No1]

Literally I was shocked watching all these advice videos but they all were like remember to sleep with your husband and if you dont you’re a bad wife

I've just thought. The words "your husband" don't exclude sleeping with anyone's else husband. Maybe be the idea was not "don't forget having sex" but "don't forget to do it with your husband as well"

Yeah I agree with this, studies show another reason for sexless marriages is because women tend to feign ignorance in the bedroom due to societal views on women and sex. So don't often feel empowered or confident to be truthful about what they like and blah de blah.

But does it make sence? I can see why women can say they don't like/care about sex or say that they had less partners then they actually had but I really can't see how it can cause a sexless marriage. And is it a thing that society approove?

 

[CenotaphGirl]

So yeah, they can do all the studies they want, but until that stigma on women goes away, I don't see how it could ever be accurate. Even if it's annonymous, a lot of women still aren't going to want to admit it.

basic principle is... women do a lot more with their ****** than just sex... men do not do anything else with their "weapons" or man sticks ... and thus.. it would be reasonable to assume we cant want it as much. Well that's my thought process anyway.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I've just thought. The words "your husband" don't exclude sleeping with anyone's else husband. Maybe be the idea was not "don't forget having sex" but "don't forget to do it with your husband as well"


But does it make sence? I can see why women can say they don't like/care about sex or say that they had less partners then they actually had but I really can't see how it can cause a sexless marriage. And is it a thing that society approove?

they cant express themselves in the bedroom fully so it leads to just low satisfaction, like most women report not ever having an orgasm and stuff without getting too graphic. Most men also report not knowing how to satisfy a woman and describing it as too complex. But I got this side of the research from youtube university

 

[4No1]

basic principle is... women do a lot more with their ****** than just sex... men do not do anything else with their "weapons" or man sticks ... and thus.. it would be reasonable to assume we cant want it as much. Well that's my thought process anyway.

I don't want to know ) <here should be a picture Ardour posted earlier>

 

[4No1]

Most men also report not knowing how to satisfy a woman and describing it as too complex.

Maybe they didn't mean sex or not only it

 

[TheSkaFish]

The idea that life is just a competition for resources - even after all this time, and after all this technology we've developed - pisses me off and depresses me.

That's another I had growing up, where I thought the world was better than it really was. I thought that competition for resources was the Bad Old Days, but that modern science and tech, and more compassionate, civilized attitudes and thinking, gave us greater freedom than ever, to make our lives about whatever we wanted them to be about, instead of boring, cold, miserable old competition, that favored people born with certain traits and interests over others. I thought we could finally break away from predetermination.

I thought the entire point of tech, was more or less to free us from competition, so that we could live our lives however we wanted to, and create a safer, more civilized, happier world. But instead the point of it seems to be improving efficiency and profit for the people that own everything already. It has nothing to do with actually improving overall quality of life.

I kind of wish growing up, I was NOT told that I had all this "freedom", and about how great everything is, because more and more, I'm feeling like I really didn't, and it's really not.

It gets me down that a man exists solely to be a provider of resources, and not whatever I want to be - not to explore possibilities and interests. I guess that means I have to crunch numbers, that's my best bet for that (not arguing, I have to do that anyway, I now see what I should have seen all along - that I have no choice - there was never anything to think about), but that's not going to make me happy, interesting to others, or to myself. I'm not going to be able to have much of a personality doing that (but can I get good enough at anything else to have a personality either, or was I always genetically predestined to be a boring person, and my only choice was boring and comfortable, or boring and miserable? But that's another tangent...). Most people who do that, seem to just be into their favorite sports teams, TV shows and movies, and random outdoors stuff that they do here and there, not often enough to get really proficient at it. And I know that isn't going to work for me.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Also reading this thread, you'd think that every guy dates/marries for looks, and every woman dates/marries for money/status these days.

Call me old-fashioned, or out of touch, but does anyone date/marry for love anymore?
Emotions or feelings? Affection?
Do you care about whether your partner is an interesting and likeable person or not?
Or have those ideas gone the way of the dodo?

 

[MrLonely86]

Society got m0r0nic, so relationships became m0r0nic also.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Society got m0r0nic, so relationships became m0r0nic also.

It got hyper-individualistic and shallow, and as a result started regressing from civilization back to savagery.
In other words, yeah, it got dumbed down, it de-volved.

PS I think "moronic" is still safe to use, as long as it's not being used to describe members.

 

[Walnut]

I feel like a fool because I honestly thought relationships would be completely different. I didn’t understand relationships are transactional. I provide this, you provide that. Doesn’t feel like love to me. Probably the hardest pill I've had to swallow is that I probably wont find my idealistic partner and I should just accept that and find happiness alone.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I feel like a fool because I honestly thought relationships would be completely different. I didn’t understand relationships are transactional. I provide this, you provide that. Doesn’t feel like love to me. Probably the hardest pill I've had to swallow is that I probably wont find my idealistic partner and I should just accept that and find happiness alone.

Yeah, I feel similarly.

This transactional view of relationships doesn't feel like love to me either, and it's been quite a culture shock for me to understand it. Growing up I thought only the "cool kids" thought that way, but I wasn't one of them so I didn't think I had to worry about it. I thought it was just a personality, a worldview - one of many - not THE personality, THE worldview. Also, I didn't think I was supposed to think that way, I thought it was shallow, superficial, immature, and even morally wrong. Now I feel like an idiot for believing otherwise.

I mean, I haven't given up on relationships. And I still think there must be someone out there who thinks and feels the way I do. It reminds me of my friends - I didn't pick my friends because I thought they had access to money, women, or could give me a status boost - I picked them because we had common interests, I liked them as people, and we seemed to have a good time together. I guess I thought relationships would be the same way, but with a woman instead of other guys.

I guess I just feel really out of touch with the world. But I've always been an idealist instead of a cynic, always more heart than head.

 

[TheSkaFish]

As far as my looks go, I don't know. They're OK I guess. Sometimes I clean up nice, and I try to at least groom myself daily. I would like to be in better physical shape.

But where I struggle is my skills. And if this is the main issue for a man, then this is why I struggled with dating, and never knew why. I thought "cool" was this mysterious thing, that either you had it or you don't. I also hyper-focused on thinking "cool" = the jerk personality, which made me refuse it, but that's not necessarily it - it's more like being impressive, which goes to a lot of people's heads especially at a young age. I never felt like I had a knack at anything, but I just thought that was just the way I was. I didn't feel like I was born with the traits or grasp/knack/mind to perform at anything so I thought I wasn't a skills/performance person, and I just did my own thing instead. But I guess as a guy, you are supposed to be a skills/performance person, by default.

Because of that - not having the thing you're supposed to have, that's supposed to be your strong suit that allows you to play your role - I feel like I can at least somewhat understand the "ugly" experience.

 

[4No1]

Call me old-fashioned, or out of touch, but does anyone date/marry for love anymore?
Emotions or feelings? Affection?

I would if I could find and love someone who noticed liked me
I also know a few couples who did. So yes, someone does, but sometimes I feel like a lot of people don't. I hope, I'm wrong.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Okay so I was thinking about what it must be like to be truly ugly... I think in some ways it must be the complete reverse of being attractive and others very similar...

Most people who see a beautiful person, compliment them to their face, an ugly person gets spoken about behind their backs.

Gas lighting is true for both, most people pretend that they wouldn't date the attractive woman and in reverse most would pretend they would give the ugly person a chance.

What a lot of people do not consider is that it can be lonely on both sides of the fence. Lonely because you are surrounded by people who think they know all there is to know about you by the way you look.

An attractive person often has a higher number of sexual partners or at least sexual suitors, whereas an unattractive person has little to no interest in that area.

The uglier a person the less deserving is a general view, however, the more attractive a person the less human they are, placed on a pedestal to where liking normal things, or being kind seem other worldly when an attractive person behaves in that way.

Anyway, just been thinking about the differences on either side of the fence, after crossing over from ugly to reasonably attractive my life got way better in some ways, but I lost the ability to connect with people like I want to. I am saddened by that.

I do agree that both sides come with their own set of problems.

I know a girl who constantly gets bothered because she's pretty. She's not the typical "hot girl" type, she's just very petite and naturally pretty, dresses very casually. She'll be walking to work and have cars slowing down and drivers try to talk to her, everywhere she works she'll have co-workers hit on her, any time she posts a regular photo on instagram she has at least 5 followers send that pic back to her. She gets followed home quite a lot. Really, she's not the kind of outgoing, attention-loving person who wants this, she's genuinely happy doing her own thing and doesn't want the bother.

For me, I'm on the other side of the fence. Ugly people do have it tough, it's pretty much the only form of social prejudice that's still acceptable; you would never make fun of someone's race, disability, weight or gender in 2023, but ugly people are still fair game. I will also get comments from passing cars, but they're not positive. I would say at least twice a month I get made fun of for being ugly. If two identically qualified people go for the same job, or same apartment, the pretty person gets it. Dating is very difficult when it's hard to make a great first impression when you're ugly.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Also reading this thread, you'd think that every guy dates/marries for looks, and every woman dates/marries for money/status these days.

Call me old-fashioned, or out of touch, but does anyone date/marry for love anymore?
Emotions or feelings? Affection?
Do you care about whether your partner is an interesting and likeable person or not?
Or have those ideas gone the way of the dodo?

So okay Ska, in my way of thinking.. asking this is like asking... dont people go to the magic shows for the magic any more? All these light effects and slight of hand and so on.. what about the magic? ...

That is the magic... and if you dont believe that... then .. tell a woman to stop having sex with her husband.. see if he still "loves her".. tell a man to stop paying the bills... stop going to work, to stop protecting his wife.. see if she still loves him. These are uncomfortable truths however, love is built on responsibilities. Even as parents, if I gave my child to a nanny to perform all motherly duties, my child would struggle to connect with me as a mother. Leading reasons for divorce are financial instability (a man not providing, as women file on this basis) and infidelity usually on a mans part due to being in a sexless marriage. Women can do infidelity as well due to their husbands being busy working to provide and due to their husbands not earning enough... so she will branch over to a more successful mate.

How could a man love someone who never makes love to him? Ever.. and how could she make love to someone who would see her starve?

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I feel like a fool because I honestly thought relationships would be completely different. I didn’t understand relationships are transactional. I provide this, you provide that. Doesn’t feel like love to me. Probably the hardest pill I've had to swallow is that I probably wont find my idealistic partner and I should just accept that and find happiness alone.

This is the issue, I thought men like prince charming were gonna ride up on horse back and save me from my crap life... with free shoes! Every man that has pretended to want to save me and wanted nothing in return.. was a dangerous man indeed.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

This is the issue, I thought men like prince charming were gonna ride up on horse back and save me from my crap life... with free shoes! Every man that has pretended to want to save me and wanted nothing in return.. was a dangerous man indeed.

There's no free shoes? Sh*t..

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I do agree that both sides come with their own set of problems.

I know a girl who constantly gets bothered because she's pretty. She's not the typical "hot girl" type, she's just very petite and naturally pretty, dresses very casually. She'll be walking to work and have cars slowing down and drivers try to talk to her, everywhere she works she'll have co-workers hit on her, any time she posts a regular photo on instagram she has at least 5 followers send that pic back to her. She gets followed home quite a lot. Really, she's not the kind of outgoing, attention-loving person who wants this, she's genuinely happy doing her own thing and doesn't want the bother.

For me, I'm on the other side of the fence. Ugly people do have it tough, it's pretty much the only form of social prejudice that's still acceptable; you would never make fun of someone's race, disability, weight or gender in 2023, but ugly people are still fair game. I will also get comments from passing cars, but they're not positive. I would say at least twice a month I get made fun of for being ugly. If two identically qualified people go for the same job, or same apartment, the pretty person gets it. Dating is very difficult when it's hard to make a great first impression when you're ugly.

Has she... ever been groped in public by a complete stranger? Had her drink spiked? Been denied medical health care due to being too sexy? Has she been offered a promotion in return for a date, and passed over ever since after she said no? Has she been bullied by other girls... envied by them... because they wish they were here? Has she ever been attacked because she didnt give someone her phone number? Has her own uncles, and cousins tried to sleep with her? Has she ever been cat called by various men one after the other? Has a man seen the harassment and offered to protect her in exchange for some... anyway... just wondering.

I agree with the ugly depiction gave me fash backs but I think people still name call attractive people... air head, too much make up this, fake tan, fake ****s... blow up doll, horse hair, plastic this that blah blah blah...

 

[CenotaphGirl]

There's no free shoes? Sh*t..

It's like as if it couldnt get any worse trops... lol not even the bloody shoes I was promised !