About depression

For me, I don't think it's caused by chemicals.
I think it's caused by the way things went for me.
I just feel so overwhelmed by my problems in life, and I feel like even if I tried to do everything as perfectly as possible, I'm afraid it still wouldn't work, because I worry that I'm not starting at a high enough level of ability to be able to develop it into anything better, or I'm just not lucky. I've always thought that you need to start out strong at something in the first place, AND THEN you can build that up to getting better. But I thought that you can't just develop something you don't have to start with, or else we'd all do it.

And that's caused me to retreat from life instead of engaging with it, and depression.

If my life went better/more smoothly, and I felt naturally better at things, picked things up more easily, then I wouldn't be depressed.

TheSkaFish said:

I'm afraid it still wouldn't work

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You are aware that's literally every single person's problem for those with depression, right? That fear of it not being better....but what exactly would you lose if you tried and it didn't work? Would you be any worse off than you are right now? Does it mean that you shouldn't try just because you are scared? Push through that honeysuckle and find out what you are actually capable of instead of just assuming you aren't good enough.

TheRealCallie said:

You are aware that's literally every single person's problem for those with depression, right? That fear of it not being better....but what exactly would you lose if you tried and it didn't work? Would you be any worse off than you are right now? Does it mean that you shouldn't try just because you are scared? Push through that honeysuckle and find out what you are actually capable of instead of just assuming you aren't good enough.

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I suppose that's true. I was thinking about that recently - trying, certainly couldn't make things any worse than they already are, whereas NOT trying, will certainly make things worse. It's the chance of maybe things getting better, or the certainty of things definitely getting worse.

I would like to find out what I'm capable of, I'd like to realize my full potential. I'm not really happy with anything less, more like resigned/feeling like I probably can't do better so I might as well not bother. Sometimes I feel like I just have to have something more to me than this. But I guess I'm afraid that I am already at it, and have no potential to fulfill. I get hung up on the fear that I really am the loser that I was treated like in the past, and that that's just going to be my life. It's something that I've always feared and hated, even from childhood. I worry that it's not in my nature to get things right enough, to have a better life than that.

Instead of that treatment lighting a fire in me and making inspired to get good at things, out of never wanting to be treated that way again, or prove the a**holes wrong, it made me just retreat from life instead and just go through the motions, until I gave up completely when I thought the world was going to end. And the whole time I felt like, I was angry at feeling forced to play a game just so I could lose, and in doing so, accept the humiliation of low status due to low traits, background, and skills. I had a thought recently and I think maybe on some level I felt like, if I attempt to improve, it's almost like I'm agreeing with the people that treated me badly, that I sucked and that's why I need to improve, if that makes sense.

Even if I didn't have all that, I still have this feeling that I'm not as good at things, and don't catch on as naturally, easily, or quickly, as a person would be if they were really the right type of person for it, and any attempt to improve won't take, because I would be trying to be something I'm not.

I guess that's the short version of it.

TheSkaFish said:

and that's why I need to improve

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EVERYONE needs to improve. I try to improve myself every day of my life because if I don't, I will not grow and I don't want to stop growing as a person.

TheSkaFish said:

Even if I didn't have all that, I still have this feeling that I'm not as good at things, and don't catch on as naturally, easily, or quickly, as a person would be if they were really the right type of person for it, and any attempt to improve won't take, because I would be trying to be something I'm not.

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Sorry, but this is all crap. If you are passionate about something and if you really want to succeed at it, you will. Now, obviously that doesn't apply to everything. Not everyone can just up and decide to cure cancer and make it happen and not everyone can just decide to be a mechanic and go immediately fix their friend's car. It takes work, it takes practice, it takes time.
If something doesn't "take" you need to figure out if you actually really wanted it or you were just too scared to put the effort in that it would take to make it happen.

What exactly is it that you want to be? What exactly is it that you want to do? Maybe start there, figure out the answers to those questions. Then research and see how to make it happen. Look for programs that will help you get where you want to be. Just DO something, because the only person that can make you a loser....is yourself. The only thing that can make you a failure.....is giving up.

TheSkaFish said:

I had a thought recently and I think maybe on some level I felt like, if I attempt to improve, it's almost like I'm agreeing with the people that treated me badly, that I sucked and that's why I need to improve, if that makes sense.

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I'm actually surprised you didn't realise this sooner. If you feel you must improve, get better at something, obviously you must do it because you want it, not because you feel coerced to do it. There's no point in doing it out of obligation alone because if you do, you're bound to fail and that failure will only make you suffer more.

TheSkaFish said:

I still have this feeling that I'm not as good at things, and don't catch on as naturally, easily, or quickly, as a person would be if they were really the right type of person for it, and any attempt to improve won't take, because I would be trying to be something I'm not.

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Since You yourself said that you would be trying to be something you're not, then you are already good as is. In fact, I recall in a separate thread where other posters reassured you that you are already good as is. It's because you compare yourself with others that makes you feel dispirited. Not everybody needs to be a skilled lawyer or a skilled doctor. It's just society in general that tries to brainwash people into being a certain way. But you are an individual so you can be contented with yourself as is.
As the saying goes,"To each his own---all things being equal." So you don't need to feel inferior at all--since you are already good as is.

Finished said:

It's a viscious cycle that's very difficult to get out of. Every time they've asked me if I'm depressed. If I say no then they are fine with that answer. If I say yes then they ask why. But, I'm sure there are standards they are supposed to use for diagnosing depression. Then they can prescribe happy pills which are meant to make one feel better ...

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That's what I've heard.

Finished said:

.. while the psychiatrist helps them work through their difficulties.

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Well, I wish! I've been to these people over here (Sweden) but they offer nothing. No understanding. No campassion. They just give you a form to fill in with a number of questions. Then they sit in front of you and ask more questions while they write it all down. The only thing they advise is, "Stop thinking about it." Jesus! If you could "stop thinking about it" you wouldn't have come to them in the first place. But Sweden is NOT known for its psychological assistance. I do know they ask if you have had any suicidal thoughts and if you answer "yes" they put in some sort of facility but I doubt they offer anything better than drugs.

Jackie said:

That's what I've heard.

Well, I wish! I've been to these people over here (Sweden) but they offer nothing. No understanding. No campassion. They just give you a form to fill in with a number of questions. Then they sit in front of you and ask more questions while they write it all down. The only thing they advise is, "Stop thinking about it." Jesus! If you could "stop thinking about it" you wouldn't have come to them in the first place. But Sweden is NOT known for its psychological assistance. I do know they ask if you have had any suicidal thoughts and if you answer "yes" they put in some sort of facility but I doubt they offer anything better than drugs.

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In my experience, psychiatrists don't help you work through anything. They ask you a few questions, throw meds at you and then insist on seeing you every few months to get refills on those meds.
If you want to work through your problems, you need a therapist or a psychologist. And rarely does it work out that the first one or two you see are actually able to help you. You have to find one that fits. I believe it's easier in America to do that, which is stupid, IMO. You might have "free healthcare for everyone" or whatever outside of America (maybe you don't, I don't know), but we are free to see whoever we want whenever we want. Hell, even getting referrals (for those that need them) is pretty **** easy.

TheRealCallie said:

In my experience, psychiatrists don't help you work through anything.

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Yes.

TheRealCallie said:

They ask you a few questions, throw meds at you and then insist on seeing you every few months to get refills on those meds.

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That's my assesment too.

TheRealCallie said:

If you want to work through your problems, you need a therapist or a psychologist.

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And where do you find those?

TheRealCallie said:

..... I believe it's easier in America to do that ...

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I believe that.

TheRealCallie said:

You might have "free healthcare for everyone"...

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Yes, we do.

TheRealCallie said:

.. but we are free to see whoever we want whenever we want. Hell, even getting referrals (for those that need them) is pretty **** easy.

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You're lucky! We get something called KTB (Cognative Behavioral Therapy) which translated into English or even actual Swedish means -BULL CRAPPY. Their whole concept is, "Stop bitching about your problem". If you are suffering from anxiety they think you should "ignore it". I'm serious.

OK, so I just looked up CBT (the English term) and it says, " ... one of the most effective means of treatment for substance abuse and co-occurring mental health disorders". Fine but what if your problem is claustrophobia or your child just died, for example? And who says Swedish doctors are as dedicated to their profession as American doctors? I can answer that last part immediately: THEY ARE NOT. Swedish doctors (in general) are useless twerps who study medicine only to get the diploma on the wall. And let me tell you that it isn't only my opinion. We all know it's true. Ask any Swede, he'll tell you.

It’s easy enough to get referrals in Australia to see a psychologist, but getting an appointment is another thing. But most of the time they a useless. They were for me me. The last one I saw even said “I don’t know how to help you.” I never bothered with another therapist again. My kids have had some success with one they saw. He was pretty good, but his expertise is with children. I think the problem of depression has massively increased with the type of world we are living in these days. I just try to distract myself as much as possible to alleviate my issues, but it’s not always satisfactory.

okidoke said:

...... I think the problem of depression has massively increased with the type of world we are living in these days..

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You "think"?

Jackie said:

And where do you find those?

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Well, I find them on Google. Sometimes I ask other doctors if they know anyone good.

Jackie said:

You're lucky! We get something called KTB (Cognative Behavioral Therapy) which translated into English or even actual Swedish means -BULL CRAPPY. Their whole concept is, "Stop bitching about your problem". If you are suffering from anxiety they think you should "ignore it". I'm serious.

OK, so I just looked up CBT (the English term) and it says, " ... one of the most effective means of treatment for substance abuse and co-occurring mental health disorders". Fine but what if your problem is claustrophobia or your child just died, for example? And who says Swedish doctors are as dedicated to their profession as American doctors? I can answer that last part immediately: THEY ARE NOT. Swedish doctors (in general) are useless twerps who study medicine only to get the diploma on the wall. And let me tell you that it isn't only my opinion. We all know it's true. Ask any Swede, he'll tell you.

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I mean, if you think about it, all therapy is CBT based, at least partly. It's about redirection, but you have to find your triggers before you can redirect. For example, with claustrophobia, you would....I don't know....picture yourself in a happy wide open field instead of a tiny elevator or something. I'm not a therapist, though, so take that with a grain of salt. lol Child dying would be trauma based, which is slightly different than regular CBT.

I'm sure there's a reason that a lot of doctors from other countries come to America. A lot of which is likely that I think they get paid more in America (could be wrong) and despite the cost of our health care, we do have a lot of the best doctors in the world. I think it's also more of a competition in America...to be THE BEST and all that.

TheRealCallie said:

I mean, if you think about it, all therapy is CBT based, at least partly. It's about redirection, but you have to find your triggers before you can redirect.

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Swedish redirection: Take Alvedon and come back in two weeks.

TheRealCallie said:

For example, with claustrophobia, you would....I don't know....picture yourself in a happy wide open field instead of a tiny elevator or something. I'm not a therapist, though,

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I understand you're not a therapist but your advice (just now) is more helpful than the two therapist I met who told me (more or less) to ignore it.

TheRealCallie said:

I'm sure there's a reason that a lot of doctors from other countries come to America.

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1). Higher pay.
2). Being addressed as "doctor" (we don't do that in Sweden)
3). And if you are really dedicated to your work it will be acknowledged.

Jackie said:

I understand you're not a therapist but your advice (just now) is more helpful than the two therapist I met who told me (more or less) to ignore it.

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Well, my son has been to more than a dozen, so I've heard a lot of different advice and I also do a lot of research.

TheRealCallie said:

Well, my son has been to more than a dozen, so I've heard a lot of different advice and I also do a lot of research.

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Will you accept a check or can I invite you for Chooks & Chips at Hungry Jack's?

Jackie said:

Will you accept a check or can I invite you for Chooks & Chips at Hungry Jack's?

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I'm vegan. Cash up front. lol

Also, keep in mind, I'm American, it'll be expensive.

Did I already post this a long ass time ago???
maybe... man my memory is bad.

kaetic said:

Did I already post this a long ass time ago???
maybe... man my memory is bad.

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I've never seen a long ass except on Hilllary Clinton.

kaetic said:

Did I already post this a long ass time ago???
maybe... man my memory is bad.

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Same.. I just know I'll do this sooner or later