Is Therapy Worth It For Being Ugly?

[Thomas]]

I put in quite little effort at school and university. I was fortunate enough to do the bare minimum and walk away with good grades. Other people I know had to work much harder to get the same result. Fast forward 10-15 years later, I can see that those people have done significantly better than I have in the years since. They had discipline, drive, motivation, good work ethic - and that momentum has clearly carried them very well through life.

My point is - we aren't born and raised equal, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and that includes the "genetic lottery". I know people who consider themselves ugly but win at life and relationships with their personalities, which in turn makes them attractive to others. It's wonderful to see. If therapy helps you to gain perspective on things and to think out loud, then go for it.

 

[Unsigned]

I put in quite little effort at school and university. I was fortunate enough to do the bare minimum and walk away with good grades. Other people I know had to work much harder to get the same result. Fast forward 10-15 years later, I can see that those people have done significantly better than I have in the years since.

I can totally relate to this.
My sister's 1st husband (I still refer to him as my brother in law) was one of those guys who struggled in school/job while like you, I needed very little effort to do well at both.
He had to work very hard, long hours, and really break his @$$ to advance himself and make more money for his family.
Bottom line, I hit the ceiling as a consultant in 1999, whereas he kept climbing and eventually became a global managing director.
Good for him. He deserves it.

 

[Draven]

I'm a drunken nothingburger here. Just wanted to say Mr preuss is hella cool
Haha suck it

 

[TheSkaFish]

Used to? Sometimes you talk about it as if it were normal, others as if it no longer were normal. You have to decide which one is the case. @Frank Peterson is right, it is a sad thing when denied entitlement becomes an identity. I'm not saying that's your case, but to me it seems like you're getting there. I can assure you one thing, though, what's neither normal or good - or, at least, shouldn't be - is believing you must, no matter the cost, achieve this thing, this state of being that's extremely difficult or nearly impossible for you to achieve, because, yes, if you still haven't found a special other by this point, there's very little prospect for you, things aren't going to get any better in the future, you know? Let's face it, Ska, you have only two choices: you can either accept your predicament or you can live the rest of your life frustrated and depressed because you never fulfilled this one small, pesky desire which basically amounts to the reproductive imperative of animals but coated in a veneer of romanticism and civility. Which one will it be?

It used to be normal, and still should be. We advanced that far as a species to make it normal.
Now, what once was normal, has reverted to being a luxury, like it was before civilization.

But I look around, and hell, even though I don't like saying it in these terms, even the people that were considered "uncool" that I remember, not macho or popular, have someone. And I doubt very much that they changed from the non-aggressive, "unhip" way they were, to loud, violent, alpha male party guys.

As for the rest, what do you propose?
Rotting in front of a PlayStation? Getting hammered and staring at the four walls? What kind of life is that?

It's like I already said -

some job that isn't truly "me", screens, alcohol and drugs, food, exercise, travel, scenery, watching the greats, staring off into space, aren't enough.

Volunteering is a nice thing to do but not what I'm looking for.

Religion, it's nice if people get something out of it but again, not the answer for me.

Philosophy/stoicism, seems like giving up on life to me. It has no appeal.

And "acceptance" is something that I've always regarded as loser/b*tch sh*t.

If you are happy with video games and philosophy, that's your prerogative. As the saying goes, "you do you".
But that doesn't sound like any kind of a life I could ever be happy with.
For me, something like a relationship is a central value. That's actually my life.
Something like TV/movies/video games is secondary. It's just stuff to do in down time.
If there's one thing to understand about me, it's that achieving normalcy really is everything to me, no matter the cost, because to me, without at least that much, nothing else matters. Nothing matters when there's nothing to look forward to, when "sh*t" is as good as it's going to get.
Without an at least normal life, which includes a relationship, life is just doing time until you drop dead, much like languishing in jail. I can't live in this bullsh*t, this isn't living, it's just waiting to die.
So yes, I must achieve it, it really is that important to me.

 

[TheSkaFish]

nevermind/wrong place

 

[user 191088]

As for the rest, what do you propose?

That's something you have to figure out yourself, and when the time comes I'm sure you will. There will come a time when we'll be old, our body will become weak and our desire for sex, relationships and intimacy will have either disappeared completely or diminished so much that it won't be a concern anymore. God willing we'll both get there, and when we get there we'll have no choice but to figure this riddle out, you see what I mean? You're living so much in the present that you're almost forgetting that there is a tomorrow, that there is a future, and it's imperative that you don't forget this because if you do, you'll never realize that, yes, life is just "doing time until you drop dead", that's all there is to it, but whether this life becomes like a prison or not to you is entirely dependent on your interpretation of the phenomenom of life itself. The truth is that we all seek this element, this thing that's supposed to transcend the banality of life and endow us with a permanent, always renewable purpose, and there's at least one major advantage in looking for this purpose in God or in philosophy, as opposed to in relationships and material things, which is the fact that the former are immune to our own ephemerality and mortality. You may believe, if you'd like, that relationships, power, material things etc. are what give purpose to one's life, but then comes a time when, even if you're the world's richest man, you'll become so frail and senile that not even such great wealth will succeed in making you happy for long, your body will become the very definition of powerlessness and every relationship you'll still have will be little beyond a drain to the people who deal with you on a daily basis, because you'll need them much more than they'll need you. Reality itself and the experience thereof will prove to you, with all the violence and materiality inherent to what is real, inherent to what actually exists, that those things aren't life's purpose, that they're not transcendental and that they don't transcend life and the banality of life, that they're part of it. However, even in such advanced stage of physical and mental decay one can still contemplate the grace of God or the sublime paths of metaphysics, they still hold value to us because they transcend our temporality, our mortality. This is why Epicurus said "let no young man delay the study of philosophy and let no old man become weary of it, for it is never too early nor too late to care for the well-being of the soul", as if he were saying "the time to philosophize is, remains and shall always be now".

 

[Unsigned]

I'm a drunken nothingburger here

Same.
pleased...pleased...pleased to meetcha!

 

[TheSkaFish]

because, yes, if you still haven't found a special other by this point, there's very little prospect for you, things aren't going to get any better in the future, you know? Let's face it, Ska, you have only two choices: you can either accept your predicament or you can live the rest of your life frustrated and depressed because you never fulfilled this one small, pesky desire which basically amounts to the reproductive imperative of animals but coated in a veneer of romanticism and civility.

I keep reading this over and over.

You really think "there's very little prospect for me", that "things aren't going to get any better in the future".
That I need to just give up and accept screens, booze, staring off into space, or filling my head with nonsense as being as good as my life will get.

Yeah, well. F*ck that.

All these people that want to dismiss me as "entitled", I'm going to run right over them.
I'm going to punch them in the teeth. Spit in their face.
I'm going to take them down.
Me against the "insiders" has always been my war and I'm dedicating the rest of my life to winning it.
Before my life ends, I need to bloody their nose, just once.
I need to stand triumphant and defiant over them, just one glorious time.
Getting into a better life - and in doing so, spiting them by defying the place they say I belong - is my crusade.

I'll get out of this even if it kills me.
If this is the best I can do, then I don't think I want to live anyway, so I don't care.
I swear I'll use all of me, to get out of this hell of singledom, by any means necessary, as long as it takes.

 

[Unsigned]

All these people that want to dismiss me as "entitled", I'm going to run right over them.
I'm going to punch them in the teeth. Spit in their face.
I'm going to take them down.
Me against the "insiders" has always been my war and I'm dedicating the rest of my life to winning it.
Before my life ends, I need to bloody their nose, just once.
I need to stand triumphant and defiant over them, just one glorious time.
Getting into a better life - and in doing so, spiting them by defying the place they say I belong - is my crusade.

I gotta tell ya...I like this!
In some ways (but not all), I may be one of the "social darwinist capitalists" you don't much care for.
But D@mn, I like this kind of talk!

 

[TheSkaFish]

I gotta tell ya...I like this!
In some ways (but not all), I may be one of the "social darwinist capitalists" you don't much care for.
But D@mn, I like this kind of talk!

You're all right. It's complicated, not a black and white issue.
I am an idealist, but I wouldn't fault a person for following their interests even if they are different than mine, or for doing what makes sense and is right for them.

But what I say here, I mean it in the real way. Not a crazy way.

I bared my teeth a little because, I mean, I was basically told I had no chance.
That, and I have a birthday coming up.
Another year single, and not where I want to be in all the other categories in life.
And not because I like it this way, but because I'm stuck. I'm going to war with it this time.

I sometimes get these moments of clarity, where a flood of realizations comes in.
I was on another site and I realized, I've fallen into the same fights there, with the same kinds of people, that I've fallen into here, and elsewhere before this, time and time again.
And the people that want to call me "entitled", that's just a continuation of the people that shut me out when I was younger, treated me like I was biologically inferior.
It's the latest iteration of that same fight, that same dynamic over and over, and I realized, I have to escape this dynamic once and for all.
When I realized this I got so mad, but at the same time, determined.
It was like my competitive spirit awakened.
I realized that, I can't live under these people my whole life.
I don't want to go my whole life having to take sh*t from them.
I can't let that happen, can't let them get the last laugh.
I must get out of the place they want to kick me into, no matter how hard it might be.

I have tried in some ways in life, but not so much others.
I got lost on some things, some wrong ideas.
In some ways, I really haven't tried in other areas nearly enough.
Maybe I need to channel a little John Paul Jones - "I have not yet begun to fight!"

I'm going to try to get more "normal", while still being me at the same time.
I will TRY some of this work ethic stuff that I guess I should have done the whole time.
My way didn't work so I have to try something else.
I have to look at my peers, look at me, and see what doesn't line up.

I would have saved myself a lot of trouble just finishing my accounting major, taking guitar lessons, and hitting up the gym, and call it a day.
If I can get back to that, maybe it's not too late yet.

 

[Draven]

Same.
pleased...pleased...pleased to meetcha!

It sure is!

Whatdoyaknow. Last night wasn't my first time posting drunk

I'm gonna grab a big old can of malt liquor now. Yuuuummy.

Btw I tried to contribute to this thread a long time ago. Excuse my off topic post.

Hang in there

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Maybe this is just a sounding board for perpetual victims. It's sad when denied entitlement becomes an identity. Then no one can help anymore, and you feel frustrated by good advice, or see the advice as holier than thou speak.

A colleague once told me that if lust overcomes your intelligence, you cease being human, for overcoming by intelligence is our greatest freedom.

I'll leave and not waste your time anymore friends, may you break free of your made up cages. Keep liking and agreeing with the comments that keep you exactly where you are.

I would take umbrage with the use of the word "entitlement" here, if this post was directed at me. At no point have I felt "entitled" to have somebody want me, entitlement is a feeling of just deserving something without having to work for it or put any effort in, and that's not what we're talking about here. I feel the effort that I'm putting in is not comparable to the results I'm getting.

I feel my position is something of a unique one that people really just don't know what to recommend, as they've never encountered someone who fits most of the basic criteria, but still cannot get anything. The majority of things that people suggest trying, I have been there and done that. The issue that I experience is that people see me as ugly, but when I express this to other people, they confidently assure me that 'cannot' be it, and that it 'must' be something else. The advice of "just learn to live with it" feels like defeat, as I'd be sacrificing the life I want, for a life that I really don't.

 

[Unsigned]

I'm gonna grab a big old can of malt liquor now. Yuuuummy.

What kind of Malt Liquor do you drink?
I used to be a big "Private Stock" guy...back in the day...

 

[Anonymos Anonymous]

You shouldn't call yourself ugly.

 

[Anonymos Anonymous]

It sure is!

Whatdoyaknow. Last night wasn't my first time posting drunk

I'm gonna grab a big old can of malt liquor now. Yuuuummy.

Btw I tried to contribute to this thread a long time ago. Excuse my off topic post.

Hang in there

Alcohol is not a way to deal with this.

 

[insecure]

No, he's right.
I can admit that I am ugly.
How do I know?
Because I have never had a girlfriend.
If hot girls didn't want me my whole life, OF COURSE I am ugly (unattractive to hot girls).
There are guys to whom hot girls THROW themselves.
I am not one of those guys.
Therefore I am ugly.
That's just the way our disgusting post 1960s world works.

I think it's always been like that.
Either you are physically attractive as a man, and that might easily get you lots of one night stands, maybe even a serious relationship.
But then women often choose a less attractive man if he has more money, more wealth to display.
I've hated this all my life.
I don't want to 'pay' for it.
If I want that I'll go to a prostitute, at least they are honest about what they want.
On dating sites I've been contacted a lot by much younger, mostly attractive women who first say that "age is but a number".
When I hear that, I know that there's another number they are interested in: the number of money they think they can squeeze out of me on a regular basis.
It never takes long before they come to the point.
Mostly it's this "sugar daddy" stuff in 3 variations:

1° I'll provide you with sex, if you pay me x per hour/day/...
or if you "help" me financially with my rent or something.
I tend to tell them that she is a prostitute and if I wanted that I wouldn't be on a dating site.

2° I'll send you hot photos online if you pay me x per month or if you "help" me financially...
I tell them that the internet is filled with hot photos, why would I pay for any of that?

3° Lately I've even received propositions to be accompanied by a young, attractive woman in return for money.
But no sex.
So you basically pay to pretend to have a girlfriend.

There's also a fourth type, the type of attractive women living abroad, looking for a marriage with an older guy.
Of course, as soon as they get a permanent residence, they'll be gone, and they'll try to wreck you financially.
Or they are living here illegally already, and want to marry to get their situation solved, after which they'll divorce you and try to squeeze money out of it too.

It seems lots of women are lazy, want to earn easy money, and prey on loneliness.
But why would I do that?
There are plenty of prostitutes, if I wanted to go that route, I would not be on a dating site.
I could easily find one that matches whatever I dreamed about sexually, even switch types every time.

I just want honesty.
Either you like me because you like the way I am: my looks, my personality, whatever, as long it is something about me, and not things I possess.
or you don't, in which case things will never take off.
But I refuse to be a sugar daddy, who pays girls' every day life, girls that pretend to like you, but secretly despise you.

 

[insecure]

The problem I have with therapy in the case described is that it makes it seem like he is the one doing something wrong.
If everything is as he describes, the problem lies with society.
The only thing therapy could do then is to make you come to terms with it, and either get filthy rich so that the gold diggers want you or fill your love life paying for prostitutes or sugar babies.
Neither option seems ideal to me.

 

[user 191197]

Therapists aren't helpful in such a situation. They can only provide support when it comes to "psychological bubble" problems (like body dysmorphic disorder) but not with issues regarding patient-environment interaction. For the latter you basically need a wise person who can give you practical advice (Getting surgery if possible, getting a blind partner, getting a partner with an ugly fetish etc).