Are all killers guilty

[Paraiyar]

It's all very well to say you're anti-war but unless pacifism as an ideology can create a global political system that makes warfare a thing of the past then it doesn't mean much to me. Please don't take offense, I just see this as a pragmatic way of looking at things.

 

[ardour]

If you don't want someone "like that" in your life, that's your prerogative, but what is he supposed to do, wallow in self-hatred for the rest of his life?

just meet some nice girl who doesn't mind war and who will love to love a brave soldier there are plenty of them

Such insights...
You put yourself in a category above this man, judge the **** out of him, then wonder why he wouldn't spill his guts expressing the right amount of regret to someone he barely knows.

 

[stork_error]

Such insights...
You put yourself in a category above this man, judge the **** out of him, then wonder why he wouldn't spill his guts expressing the right amount of regret to someone he barely knows.

Ardour, go back and look at your post on meat and notice that you did the exact same thing to me with your vege comment. You even made the comment about "class" as if you are superior to me because you dont eat meat. You "judged me and put yourself in a category above me".

And if you were actually really for annimal rights you would be a vegan not a vegetarian. Female cows endure much worse lifelong abuse for their milk then do male cows who are simply killed for meat.

Annimal rights are your passion and you have a right to feel how you feel, but dont be a hypocrit and deny someone else the same rights and feelings about humans

You wouldnt marry a willing meat killer and peach and I wouldnt marry a willing people killer. Same ****.

Any yes like cali said, comments about this could really hurt a soldier and that is unfair and why this will be my last post, but thats why its worth noticing that 90% do not feel the way peach and i feel so the soldier shouldn't be hurt.

What might also be hurtful is making comments about diets when one is unaware of the health status and dietary requirements of other people, unlike myself who actually cares if i hurt a soldier with my comments...

Which again, is why its important to illustrate again that 90% disagree and it seems its only peach and I who feel different, and like peach said, there are zillions of nice girls who would love to marry a solider, who see them as brave and courageous to go to war and defend ones country. Zillions and Zillions

 

[user 115627]

A lot of people back in 1930's Germany were Nazis. A lot of people who were Nazis were not ones by choice. Back then if you were a young and strong you were perfect for the Nazi party so they made your mind up for you. You were in. Many joined under threat. Maybe their family was threatened with death or being sent to the concentration camps. And that's one thing that people don't realize by the way. The Jewish people were not the only ones sent to those terrible places. Many Germans went too.

True, I do know the history. After all the Jews weren't even the first that were killed off by Nazis...it was the German social democrats which were opposed to their political ideology.

Nobody likes war but in the history of man we have never been able to figure out how to prevent the next one from happening.

Let's pretend here for a minute and say ISIS is not too far from where you live (God forbid of course) and they are getting closer. I don't think you'd object at all if a few troops of those soldiers with guns show up and do their job and protect the innocent civilians. After it is all done you live and the terrorists are taken down. These guys did their job and part of their job at that time was to kill those ISIS terrorists. The way they see it their mission was successful. The bad guys were taken down and that's that. But according to you you want nothing to do with them now because now they have blood on their hands and they are not upset about it. There's still something the matter with them even though they put their life on the line to save yours.

Yeah they killed. They had to. They are not giving themselves high-fives at the end of the day. They did their job despite of how people like you feel about them. They did their job to save lives.

You just reminded me of another thing that might be worth mentioning, don't wanna derail of course: War does not equal war. Back in the old days the reasons for war were vastly different, but it's never as easy as dividing the fronts into the good and bad guys. Al-Qaeda used to be the bad guys, but few remember that Osama bin Laden and his guys were former freedom fighters that were partially funded and supported with weapons by the US goverment to drive the Soviets out of Afghanisten and after that they had "new goals" - and they were already known to use questionable methods before. Saddam Hussein was not a bad guy either, he once was an ally of the Western World that toppled the Islamic Republic of Iran, but then he liked Kuwait more...and today we all know the talk about his weapons of mass destruction was a bunch of ********. A whole lot of these so-called terrorists and bad guys would not exist if not for our intervention.

Most of today's wars are economic wars. And with all the collateral damage involved, the innocent civilians in these countries we are supposedly protecting stop being interested in our help and agenda anymore either...otherwise they wouldn't volunteer to join the Taliban or any other rebel group to get us out of their country. That's the part were I really empathize with soldiers these days - some of them don't even know what they are fighting for anymore. They fight because they are told to but what kind of fight is it where neither the civilians at home nor the ones in the war zone want you there.

...sorry, rant over.

 

[Paraiyar]

^Off topic but it's also worth mentioning that Russia's heroin epidemic came about as a result of the Taliban selling it to finance themselves during the Soviet-Afghan war.

 

[ardour]

Ardour, go back and look at your post on meat and notice that you did the exact same thing to me with your vege comment. You even made the comment about "class" as if you are superior to me because you dont eat meat. You "judged me and put yourself in a category above me".

No I suggested that attitude was as much to do with class snobbery, since you have no problem eating the end product.

And if you were actually really for annimal rights you would be a vegan not a vegetarian. Female cows endure much worse lifelong abuse for their milk then do male cows who are simply killed for meat.

Don't eat dairy. I sometimes eat free range eggs which is why I can't call myself vegan.

Annimal rights are your passion and you have a right to feel how you feel, but dont be a hypocrit and deny someone else the same rights and feelings about humans

You wouldnt marry a willing meat killer and peach and I wouldnt marry a willing people killer. Same ****.

I could marry a meat eater. I'm not a fundamentalist animal rightser. . I'd encourage them to think about becoming vegetarian though, for health reasons if nothing else.

What might also be hurtful is making comments about diets when one is unaware of the health status and dietary requirements of other people, unlike myself who actually cares if i hurt a soldier with my comments...

The only dietary requirement tied to (red) meat is B12, which can be easily obtained from supplements or fortified foods.

Which again, is why its important to illustrate again that 90% disagree and it seems its only peach and I who feel different, and like peach said, there are zillions of nice girls who would love to marry a solider, who see them as brave and courageous to go to war and defend ones country. Zillions and Zillions

If you think it justifiable to raise animals in terrible conditions for food then it follows that workers employed in an abattoir aren't involved in anything wrong and shouldn't be judged as if they were.

Same goes for war; someone who thinks it's justified, that their or their country's security is somehow being served through armed conflict, shouldn't be passing judgment on soldiers doing their duty (assuming civilians aren't being targeted).

If you can't get involved with someone based what they do or have done, fine. Yet it sounds like both of you go beyond that while judging them as unworthy.

 

[user 115627]

^Off topic but it's also worth mentioning that Russia's heroin epidemic came about as a result of the Taliban selling it to finance themselves during the Soviet-Afghan war.

Didn't knew about that. Heh, what's left to say but: Observing a war's repercussions can be really fascinating.

 

[Paraiyar]

And if you were actually really for annimal rights you would be a vegan not a vegetarian. Female cows endure much worse lifelong abuse for their milk then do male cows who are simply killed for meat.

I'm a non militant, non evangelical vegetarian so I don't really have much of a bone in this argument but this comment seems a bit unreasonable to me. Vegetarians are still arguably contributing more to animal rights than meat eaters are. It seems kind of more like a matter of a hierarchy of contribution to those ideals than it does like an 'either all or nothing' thing as your comment kind of makes it sound.