Dating: saying the wrong time at the wrong time

[ardour]

The common mistake of giving too much too soon and not reading between the lines. You will come across as too eager.

One sidedness puts them in control of the interaction and (generally) women don't like that. It can imply you are lower status than them or socially unaware to an almost childlike level. You're the guy trying to seek their approval in an obvious way. They get that all the time, whether it's men being sincere, or just trying to get sex. I realize this sounds like stupid Red Pill games but some of this spills over into common sense. Just too many words on your part. Try to be concise when saying something, and match their effort with yours. If they give short replies then make it short also. There shouldn't be a large mismatch in effort; if there is it's best to cut losses and move on.

 

[insecure]

The common mistake of giving too much too soon and not reading between the lines. You will come across as too eager.

To which exactly was this a response?
I speak 6 languages because I always liked languages, not because of the dating.

 

[ardour]

To which exactly was this a response?
I speak 6 languages because I always liked languages, not because of the dating.

I was responding to your original topic post.

 

[user 164061]

I'll see how it goes after my first date (if that happens).
I had some experience with dating sites in the past (a long time ago, long before the smartphone was introduced), and it felt like a scam for many profiles.
I was on this local site, and each profile had a number.
I once did a test, I sent a small message to like 100 profiles to see how many would respond, or even read the message.
Lots of them never read the message, so they were either fake profiles, or the woman that created them, made the profile, then concluded the site was rubbish and abandoned it very quickly.
Of the few responses I got, only a couple seemed to be designed to keep the conversation going.
So it just felt like many profiles were fake, just made to give the impression they had many active profiles.

With Tinder and Bumble I don't know yet.
It hasn't been long enough that I'm on there to judge.
Anyway, I think many people are superficial, and an intelligent conversation is not always easy to find.
These apps also play on that.
I mean, if you can select "music" as your interests, what does that mean?
Unless you're Taliban, you most probably like some kind of music.

I recall using a pen pals website about 6 years ago and i had many common interests with women there, they also claimed to have a good understanding of English but just left me on read. If they had crap English i'd understand, but the fact they had a profile written in very good English and chose what English level they had ( 4/4 bars) it just made no sense at all. They probably wanted Hugo Boss models or something because even with a photo i'd barely get replies and i could have sent 1000 messages. You'd think with the ones who wanted to learn English i would be in the driving seat but nope, that was not the case at all.

Many seem to be quite shallow, rude, ignorant and more but they've never been told this information it seems. It's very hard to find someone when they just want models and you just want conversation that goes well. But yeah, that pen pal site had numerous fakes and you could just tell instantly.

 

[insecure]

I was responding to your original topic post.

Maybe, it could be that some of them see me as going through too much trouble, which then makes it feel like unnatural, like trying to only say what they want to hear.

 

[insecure]

I recall using a pen pals website about 6 years ago and i had many common interests with women there, they also claimed to have a good understanding of English but just left me on read. If they had crap English i'd understand, but the fact they had a profile written in very good English and chose what English level they had ( 4/4 bars) it just made no sense at all. They probably wanted Hugo Boss models or something because even with a photo i'd barely get replies and i could have sent 1000 messages. You'd think with the ones who wanted to learn English i would be in the driving seat but nope, that was not the case at all.

Many seem to be quite shallow, rude, ignorant and more but they've never been told this information it seems. It's very hard to find someone when they just want models and you just want conversation that goes well. But yeah, that pen pal site had numerous fakes and you could just tell instantly.

Pen pals?
That reminds me of when I first started to learn Spanish, the internet was still in its infancy.
There was this German university, I think it was the one from Trier that had a language exchange program.
I had only had one class, in which we learned to present ourselves, but I immediately subscribed.
They paired you with someone of the opposite sex.
As there was no Dutch-Spanish group I joined the English-Spanish group, even though English is not my mother tongue.
I was quickly joined with this Peruvian woman.
It didn't take her long to send me photos of herself and her environment.
It made me feel she saw this more like a dating system than that she wanted to learn English...
Anyway, the world seemed a bit too large for me at that time, and Peru seemed like the other end of the world, I was very insecure, and didn't want anyone to find out.
So it did not go any further than that.

 

[insecure]

Meanwhile, I am getting more and more the same feeling I had 20 years ago.
At that time there were no dating apps, it was dating sites.
Often conversations would begin in which certain more or less attractive women would appear very interested, then changed their story to "I'm actually looking for friendship", or they say they'll invite you over, but before it actually goes through, something comes in between it, so it can't go through, they postpone it, playing games on you.
The paying apps (99% of the total) give you the impression many women are interested in you, but they hide who it is, so you have no idea if they would be any way attractive to me or not, also there might be some fake accounts among those.
On facebook dating I've had like 5 women interested in me, but they all look too old and totally unattractive to me.
I'm starting to think that the women I find attractive are too young to be with someone like me, and the women that find me attractive are too old for me.
As i'm feeling insecure, I find it hard to determine which women I would really want to kiss and more.
So sometimes I swipe right, and then I get a match, and then I see them on video, and think that this woman is not for me, especially since for many women they have like 5 photos, and they seem to look different in each and every one of them.
Of course, you can meet women in real life too, but I'm not the type to go to a woman in a café and start a conversation.
I think it will be really hard to meet someone with whom I could have any kind of relationship that goes beyond chatting.

 

[insecure]

After a couple of weeks on those dating apps it feels like:

* there are lots of fake profiles on them
* some profiles are only there to get followers on instagram
* some profiles have other incentives (for instance: one wants to make drawings of naked men, then sell them on her instagram)
* some profiles like to pretend they're interested, then postpone them every time
* some profiles seem to be bots, with responses that seem to respond to certain keywords in the chat
* the free dating app 'Facebook dating' hardly ever turns into a match, the paying ones do, this is a bit suspicious

So it's turning into a bit of a disappointment.
I'll see how things develop in the future, but it reminds me of how things were a long time ago, when everything was still done with sites instead of apps.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

^ Yeah most likely. Just got a very random messgae on twitter from a pretty Chinese girl for reasons I can't figure out yet. I'm not posting any pics there, never bragged about money and my "content" is mostly insulting Musk and some weird half-racist jokes that no one can't explain. Then she messages me I even barely replied but she continued then I decided to show photos + dig a bit deeper about Chinese and Japanese and it seems that 1) Her Chinese need improvement lol; 2) She didn't like my photos. From what I've seen it will be bizarre for someone who claims to speak Mandarin not to be able to read simple sentence in Traditional chinese since the difference between trad/simplified seem very little in simple sentences?? It's one of those super fake bots maybe...anyway.

 

[insecure]

I now have several "interested" women.
What they all seem to have in common is that I notice mistakes in their mother tongue (if that really is their mother tongue).
As I live close to the French border, and to the French speaking part of Belgium, I get requests in French as well.
Now, I find it strange to notice these big errors in their language.
"Parlez-moi un peu de tu." should be "Parlez-moi un peu de toi.", and I have seen other errors as well.
But not only that, yesterday I was chatting to this woman who claimed she was looking for a serious relationship, and she was rattling on with very long sentences, and it was very repetitive.
When I asked to talk to her (we were already on an anonymous skype account), she said the batteries of her phone had almost depleted.
But she would certainly talk this morning.
Haven't heard from her since then.

What they always seem to have in common is that they want to go to Telegram, or gmail, or skype.
On the one hand that is normal, you don't want to forever be on the dating site, but they never want to switch from chat to voice.
Also, when I record a piece of voice myself, when they respond, they are completely ignoring that part, as if they had never noticed it.
So there is no guarantee that behind that profile there really is a woman, could be a man, or simply a bot (piece of software).
Isn't it strange that you start off a conversation with a "good morning, how are you doing, I really like your photos, what plans do you have for today? Can you tell me a bit about yourself?".
And then a bit later it turns to "I rarely come here, but you can contact me on email, you can send me some more photos and I'll send you one of mine."
Why would I need more photos?
Why is there no answer when I ask to hear her voice?

Another woman who according to the dating app is 6 km away from me, told me she is from Montenegro, visiting a friend in Brussels.
Wanted to meet me, but again no chance of hearing her voice, of course.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

^ Just drop dating apps/sites. Maybe try instagram/tiktok with some traction it could be at least better than fake sites with bots and scammers. The "hot" Chinese girl from yesterday as I thought turned out to be total scam, now promoting some cyrpto sh*t or whatever lol, basically "Yes I am an artist, painter but I am good at investing, have you seen cryptoscam.com - it's amazing! Google it" <- bs like that.

 

[9006]

It's hard to tell considering I know nothing about you, but in my experience most of those dating sites (especially dating apps) is like applying for a job. It's too easy to dismiss someone because of some minor difference or dislike, and move on. These sites often lack connection (if that makes sense) so the fact that you've gotten to voice calls is a good thing. But if it seems to die often during the video calls then that tells me how you portray yourself and how you actually are in person are different.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

It's hard to tell considering I know nothing about you, but in my experience most of those dating sites (especially dating apps) is like applying for a job. It's too easy to dismiss someone because of some minor difference or dislike, and move on. These sites often lack connection (if that makes sense) so the fact that you've gotten to voice calls is a good thing. But if it seems to die often during the video calls then that tells me how you portray yourself and how you actually are in person are different.

Yeah I've been saying the same thing for a long time in fact: it's very dumb to be on them as a guy who picks his own photo. I mean how are you supposed to pick the best pic, maybe it's the worst one? And why are men judged by photos? Say you're tall or what about the voice, personality apparently nothing matters, I'd go as far as saying that Tinder is some knee-jerk reaction of the far left idiotism in the pre-covid, pre-musk era lol. In other words: "if men judge us by looks only, we'll date younger men who we judge by looks only, ha!" - yeah, and then Musk fired you lol. But seriously: I hope tinder is becoming the ancient artifact the same way old-fashioned dating sites faded in obscurity.

 

[insecure]

It's hard to tell considering I know nothing about you, but in my experience most of those dating sites (especially dating apps) is like applying for a job. It's too easy to dismiss someone because of some minor difference or dislike, and move on. These sites often lack connection (if that makes sense) so the fact that you've gotten to voice calls is a good thing. But if it seems to die often during the video calls then that tells me how you portray yourself and how you actually are in person are different.

Don't know if it's my post you responded to or the one from maybetrollingornot.
If it was mine then you didn't understand it correctly, I asked for voice conversation, because I want to make sure that there is a real human being behind this, and that I am talking to a woman and not a man who pretends to be a woman.
At that point comes some faint excuse where they supposedly can't hear me, even if it was a voice message I recorded before.
They want to get you off the site as quickly as possible, which on the one hand I can understand, but then they talk about exchanging photos per email.
Why would that be the next step if you are looking for anything, albeit a one night stand or a steady relationship.
If you really think there is a match you would want to meet in person, or at least hear their voice.
The fact that they don't do that makes me believe these are fake profiles with some ulterior motives (identity fraud? / selling bitcoins? / scam / ...)
I have someone on skype now, french speaking, yesterday she chatted for hours, I asked to hear her voice, she supposedly would record it today, now she says the mike is broken, yet she would like to continue chatting.
Sure...
I'll spend all my Sunday chatting, while there is more than enough time to meet her in person.
Why would someone react like that?

 

[9006]

Yeah I've been saying the same thing for a long time in fact: it's very dumb to be on them as a guy who picks his own photo. I mean how are you supposed to pick the best pic, maybe it's the worst one? And why are men judged by photos? Say you're tall or what about the voice, personality apparently nothing matters, I'd go as far as saying that Tinder is some knee-jerk reaction of the far left idiotism in the pre-covid, pre-musk era lol. In other words: "if men judge us by looks only, we'll date younger men who we judge by looks only, ha!" - yeah, and then Musk fired you lol. But seriously: I hope tinder is becoming the ancient artifact the same way old-fashioned dating sites faded in obscurity.

I never believe that "looks don't matter" to be attracted to someone, but rather how much looks are important to you. So if someone wanted to get to know you you wouldn't have to have the perfect picture, really. The problem with most of these sites is that it's based on looks, so effectively the people who sign up know the layout of the site and are happy judging people mostly by pictures, that goes double for the likes of Tinder. The best bet is to find sites that are proper[/] dating profiles where people can express themselves in writing, as well as images.

At that point comes some faint excuse where they supposedly can't hear me, even if it was a voice message I recorded before.
They want to get you off the site as quickly as possible, which on the one hand I can understand, but then they talk about exchanging photos per email.

This just sounds like you was talking to a fake profile that's building the foundations ready to exploit you in some way. It's understandable that you want the person you're speaking to to prove themselves, but really you shouldn't force this type of thing. It'll just easily scare off genuine people as well as any scammers. The thing you really need is patience; if a profile isn't genuine they wouldn't normally put in so much work over longer periods. Besides, I always prefer communication over longer periods before the eventual video call or meet.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

I never believe that "looks don't matter" to be attracted to someone, but rather how much looks are important to you. So if someone wanted to get to know you you wouldn't have to have the perfect picture, really. The problem with most of these sites is that it's based on looks, so effectively the people who sign up know the layout of the site and are happy judging people mostly by pictures, that goes double for the likes of Tinder. The best bet is to find sites that are proper[/] dating profiles where people can express themselves in writing, as well as images.


This just sounds like you was talking to a fake profile that's building the foundations ready to exploit you in some way. It's understandable that you want the person you're speaking to to prove themselves, but really you shouldn't force this type of thing. It'll just easily scare off genuine people as well as any scammers. The thing you really need is patience; if a profile isn't genuine they wouldn't normally put in so much work over longer periods. Besides, I always prefer communication over longer periods before the eventual video call or meet.

That's the thing but that kind of sites like I said faded since they had the whole "Desperate" vibe around them and paved the way for Tinder, plus they were more time consuming. In any case it's absurd to judge anyone men or women based on a single photo, a'la tinder.

 

[insecure]

This just sounds like you was talking to a fake profile that's building the foundations ready to exploit you in some way. It's understandable that you want the person you're speaking to to prove themselves, but really you shouldn't force this type of thing. It'll just easily scare off genuine people as well as any scammers. The thing you really need is patience; if a profile isn't genuine they wouldn't normally put in so much work over longer periods. Besides, I always prefer communication over longer periods before the eventual video call or meet.

But I want some kind of captcha to know for sure I'm not talking to a scammer.
I want to hear their voice because I want to make sure they are real.
Also I find it strange when they ask you for your plans for the day and end with just wanting to send some mails and exchange photos.
I'm just worried if I send photos, they'll be used for identity fraud.
I'm not convinced they couldn't put much time in this if they are fake, some scammers have lots of patience to win your confidence.

I also had a conversation where she asked me how I was doing, and to talk about myself.
Instead of typing it, I recorded a voice message and put it there.
She responded with another message, that seemed to have no connection with what I had said in my voice message.
Now, a bot wouldn't be able to analyse the voice message, I guess.

 

[9006]

But I want some kind of captcha to know for sure I'm not talking to a scammer.
I want to hear their voice because I want to make sure they are real.
Also I find it strange when they ask you for your plans for the day and end with just wanting to send some mails and exchange photos.
I'm just worried if I send photos, they'll be used for identity fraud.
I'm not convinced they couldn't put much time in this if they are fake, some scammers have lots of patience to win your confidence.

I'm not sure how a captcha would work since scammers would be able to simply complete it on their end. Like I said you can't really expect any potential people to jump straight into video calls, it would seem suspicious to them from your end.

If you have a couple of pictures on your profile they shouldn't be asking you to send them more off site, certainly not at first. Have a look at reviews to dating sites or apps before you sign up, that way you'll be able to get a better judgement if you see complaints of scammers or fake accounts. Also bear in mind those sites that are free are most likely going to be the worst.

That's the thing but that kind of sites like I said faded since they had the whole "Desperate" vibe around them and paved the way for Tinder, plus they were more time consuming. In any case it's absurd to judge anyone men or women based on a single photo, a'la tinder.

Well apps like Tinder have the reputation of it being for people who aren't serious or who want to sleep around... and they seem to be happy with that since not much has changed since it popped onto the scene. So with places like that you must know what you're signing up for.

 

[insecure]

I'm not sure how a captcha would work since scammers would be able to simply complete it on their end. Like I said you can't really expect any potential people to jump straight into video calls, it would seem suspicious to them from your end.

I think many of the scam attempts (at least in a first phase) come from bots.
That would explain why if you respond with audio they react as if they never received anything.
First objective should be to keep the bots off bay.

I don't expect them to jump straight into video calls, I never said that.
I'm talking about audio calls, or simply recording their own voice like in "Hello, I am Susan".
That's enough for me to know that at least there is some female person at the other end, doesn't mean that she can't be a scammer of course.
Also, they asked me something in chat, and I responded with a voice message.
I expect a human being to respond to what was said in the message I recorded, and not to act as if nothing had been said.

Have a look at reviews to dating sites or apps before you sign up, that way you'll be able to get a better judgement if you see complaints of scammers or fake accounts. Also bear in mind those sites that are free are most likely going to be the worst.

That is not my experience until now.
Facebook Dating is free, and there I have not seen much response (the women that responded favourably are not at all attractive to me), but also no fake responses until now.
Tinder, Bumble, Happn all have a free part and a paying part, and I got most response on Happn and Bumble, and most fakes on Happn.
But most fake responses come from sites that at least have a part that is paying.

 

[insecure]

One of the women who diverted me to mail and wanted to send more photos, now sent me a bunch of photos.
She looks attractive given her age, but I 'm not sure she looks like the woman in the profile on the dating site she's supposed to be.
I can't find the photos with reverse image search.
She claims to be from Kazachstan but living in Russia, she says this is also in her profile, it obviously isn't, she's supposed to live close to me...
She wants me to take more pictures of myself, selfies, videos, and send them to her.
I'm not going to do that, they could be used for identity fraud.
I think this is the well-known "I'm so in love with you, but I can't get out of the country, please send lots of money" scam.
Russia is like the ideal country these days to play this game, with travel restrictions because of the war with Ukraine.
It's also suspicious that, although we had a whole weekend, she started the conversations on Monday, at 8:30 am.
Probably this is the start of a new "work week" for him/her, getting through the list of potential victims.

And, like I thought, a couple of hours later, I get an email from the other woman.
She looks gorgeous, a lot better than on her profile.
This one speaks English (the other one spoke French).
Her profile says she is 39, but in her email she says 38, so she has just gotten a year younger...
Guess what, she's also from Kazachstan, and looking for a serious relationship.
She sent me a Gmail address to contact her (an anonymous type), the response came from an outlook.com address.
The funny thing is, that each time I visit my mum, we supposedly crossed each other.
So she seems to be part of some weird quantum mechanics in which she simultaneously is 1km away here in Belgium, but at the same time living thousands of miles away, down in Kazachstan.
I am sure scientists are puzzled by this feat.