I haven't tried dating sites myself, but I've browsed them, and I can't say I was too happy with anyone I found there.
bearcat22 said:
Since our western culture seems to have been telling women that they are never allowed to
ever approach a man, only to wait to be approached, the majority of men just get ignored.'
No one has ever been able to make me understand this.
It's culture, sort of. But it's also evolutionary biology. I think the biological part created the cultural norm, and now they are both a thing. Even if we somehow could make it a cultural norm for women to approach men, or get rid of the idea that men are expected to approach women, I still don't think too many women would approach men first because of biology. I really think that evolutionary biology is the source of a lot of the pain involved in trying to get into relationships, because it unfairly helps people who just so happen to be born a certain way by giving them success for little to no work, and regardless of if they are good people or not. At the same time, it completely ***** over other people who weren't as lucky to be born as the "right" kind of person by making it very hard for them to escape singledom, because they basically need to stop being themselves and learn how to be someone else - if they even can.
I also think that women generally wouldn't approach first, because right now, men come to them, submit themselves for evaluation, and hope for the best. The women get to pick and choose, get to hold the man's feelings in her hand and decide whether to comfort or crush it, the women enjoy the social high ground and the ego boost that goes with it. It's like getting social status and power just for existing. Why would they want to give that up? I don't think most people are above that kind of mentality, unfortunately.
bearcat22 said:
Who made this rule? And why do women follow it?
The answer to both seems to be evolutionary biology.
bearcat22 said:
Finding out it is a numbers game
Not for the "right" kind of men who either happen to be born the "right" way or are willing to pander to what Stone Age biology and Hollywood tell us what we should think is "cool".
bearcat22 said:
Or simply did not care that things are hard for both men and for women, in very different ways.
True. For women, the problem seems to be looks - if you're good-looking, then dating will probably be easy for you. Learning hard knowledge or putting work into your personality will be purely optional. If you're not, it will be harder, but as long as your problems with looks aren't extreme, there will still probably be some men who would still date you. For men it seems much more complicated. You have to be powerful (or at least seem like it), you have to at least act like you always know what you're doing, you have to be interesting, you have to be entertaining, you have to be funny (which usually means sarcasm/facetiousness and the game of insults and comebacks), you have to tick most to all of these boxes instead of just one or two, and if you don't so happen to be the kind of person who does these things automatically, it's an ordeal. I really wish more women understood this, or even were more clear about what they want and expect from men so we could prepare instead of spending years with no idea what women even want, living our lives in circles. But I don't think they care to understand it or tell us. They expect us to just know instinctively.
bearcat22 said:
Second, a woman would describe what she was looking for in a man. Perfectly reasonable, but most of this stuff was literally insane.
About three men in the entire history of humanity MIGHT fill all of the "requirements" these women demanded in a man.
Well, maybe not three men. But definitely only certain types of men. The problem is, not all of us can be or even want to be this type of guy (for any reason other than most women and especially most attractive women like this kind of guy). This is the part that stumps me. What can you do if this kind of guy just isn't "you", and you don't feel comfortable basically putting on an act because you don't agree that this stuff should be valuable at all? There's really no easy answers.
bearcat22 said:
Third, the woman would rarely say anything she had to offer that a MAN would find valuable.
Never, "I will never ask you to go shopping with me" Never, "I will rub your feet after you come home after a hard day of work"
That's another thing I noticed. Most of the women have literally the same interests, most of which I'm either not particularly interested in, or even if I am, these interests aren't specific to that woman. I've looked at a lot of profiles over the years but I've never really seen anyone that I'd actually want to get to know or even ask one question to, let alone beat myself up just to even try to tick off all their boxes. It's very hard for me to find someone that I'd want to connect with.
bearcat22 said:
Sixth, something has come up in our culture where women are now PROUD of being unattractive?
Look, I get that models in magazines are fake. But "Big Beautiful Woman"? I'm supposed to think you are great
because you're in denial that you're unhealthy and unattractive?
Let's turn that around for a moment. Suppose I have no money, and I start a movement and a phrase
and start calling myself a BBM? Broke Beautiful Man. Right, great idea. Because every women loves a guy with no job
and no car. Well F you because I'm PROUD of my Poverty!
That's the problem. I do see parts of the argument where women are trying to be more confident by refusing to be shamed for things they may not be able to control, but there definitely is a double standard and it definitely is harder for a man to compete. Even with Big Beautiful Women, there's a niche for that. The Broke Beautiful Man thing would never take off (unless the guy had something else that gave him power, like wild man stories or the ability to make fun of others, in which case it's no longer really about him being a Broke Beautiful Man - it's more like in spite of it) because women just wouldn't care. Being broke is seen as a weakness in men and weakness is seen as a sign of inherent inferiority, sometimes to the point of being undeserving of life itself. It's just this cultural phenomenon that when a woman has problems, you're supposed to feel bad. But when a man has problems, it's **** you, you're on your own, nobody cares. No one ever really seems to stop and think about this. It's weird, but again, we have evolutionary biology to blame.
X-1 Alpha said:
MGTOW is actually a pretty cool movement. Almost everyone I've met from that community was simply disillusioned or no longer interested in dating etc. They just wanted to focus on their careers and hobbies, plus they fight for equal rights of men. I don't think there's anything wrong with prefering to share a cold one with friends instead of chasing skirts. They're going their own way, not getting in the way of the others.
I think they should be able to do what they want, but it doesn't appeal to me really. Having sexual and romantic companionship with a woman has been something I've always wanted, and focusing on a career or hobbies would just feel like empty distractions, just passing time. If I knew I couldn't ever get anywhere with women, I'd just want to take it easy in life. No point beating myself up for nothing.
X-1 Alpha said:
If you really want to investigate a problematic movement that's existing because the "things have gotten so incredibly bad" - check out the incels (involuntary celibates). Whereas some men simply "went their own way", those guys are just women-hating psychopaths.
I think it's possible to hate the way attraction works and favors some types of people at the expense of others, without hating women themselves. I like women, I don't see them as living *** dolls, I do want to get to know them as a person, which is more than some men who women give free passes to can say. But I'm always not good enough because I just couldn't be the "right" kind of person.
bearcat22 said:
The value of a woman placing an ad as if she were a man, and FINALLY have some remote
understanding and speck of compassion for what it is like to be a man in our culture
I wouldn't hold my breath. That's the problem, most women, especially the ones that are riding high, just don't care to understand or have compassion for what it's like to be a man in our culture. They don't care how hard you try or how well you mean or why you're having a hard time. They feel like if you can't compete, then they don't care about you or your struggles or pain. I feel like it's like money - the people who have an easy time making money feel like it must be because they are naturally superior, and that the people who have a hard time making money must be naturally inferior. It's ****** but I wouldn't count on it changing any time soon. It's not enough for the people who get everything to get everything, they also have to never admit fault for anything.
bearcat22 said:
Similarly, men need to learn what it is like to get three hundred unwanted ***** pictures in their inbox.
To me it's always seemed obvious that things like that will get you nowhere. I don't know why guys continue to do it.
bearcat22 said:
Hoping to do some good in the world, I have posted an idea all over the internet, literally for years:
If you want to have a relationship with the opposite gender, you are going to have to actually
UNDERSTAND that opposite gender. One of the best ways to do that is to create a fake ad, pretending to be
a woman or a man. Send out some messages to some people, and see what happens.
I agree with the first part, understanding the opposite gender. But not really with the method. It does seem a bit too close to catfishing, which is something I am personally very against. I think it's better to just figure out what women seem to like and why, to look at men who have romantic relationships and see what they are doing, what their personality and interests are like, what kind of person they seem to be and what women seem to like in these people, then finding the least objectionable examples and find some traits you could be OK with, or even want for yourself. I don't know though. I do think that ********* men will always have an easier time because aggression, dominance, cunning, facetiousness, social status, and resources are a large part of male attraction. And guys who find themselves struggling with this will always be fighting an uphill battle.
