Female attraction to beards and tattoos

[Alma lost her spoon]

I know a lot of people with beards &/or tatts-they come from all walks of life, shapes, sizes & attitudes. To infer that men with tattoos & beards are oafs is sooooo last century!

 

[TheSkaFish]

You never know -- I'll bet RBF affects guys too.

What is RBF? Reel Big Fish? I'm not sure what you mean.

I know a lot of people with beards &/or tatts-they come from all walks of life, shapes, sizes & attitudes. To infer that men with tattoos & beards are oafs is sooooo last century!

Well, that's the thing about stereotypes. When they get proven true, it's kind of hard to shake them. I guess the rest of the tattooed community can blame guys like the scumbag I'm referring to, for massively reinforcing the old stereotype, to the letter. Covered in tats? Check. Dumb-jock mentality? Check. Hard drug user? Check. Criminal behavior? Check. It's hard to clean up an image. You say it's last century to stereotype guys like this, and you're right. That's what happened. This guy basically took back all the steps forward to clean up the image, and in my mind brought guys like that back to the '60s and '70s. It's going to take a lot for me to change my mind again. I will have to meet one hell of a tattooed guy who defies the stereotype, not a tattooed woman but a guy since that's who the stereotype is reinforced for, for me to have a better attitude about them.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Well, that's the thing about stereotypes. When they get proven true, it's kind of hard to shake them. I guess the rest of the tattooed community can blame guys like the scumbag I'm referring to, for massively reinforcing the old stereotype, to the letter. Covered in tats? Check. Dumb-jock mentality? Check. Hard drug user? Check. Criminal behavior? Check. It's hard to clean up an image. You say it's last century to stereotype guys like this, and you're right. That's what happened. This guy basically took back all the steps forward to clean up the image, and in my mind brought guys like that back to the '60s and '70s. It's going to take a lot for me to change my mind again.

If you think all people with tattoos are scumbags because one person with some tattoos did something wrong... That sounds like a personal problem to me. It sounds like to me that you just don't like the dude, and want to ostracize him because you don't like him. If this guy didn't have tattoos, then what? You'd have nothing to say on that, would you?

What about the mother who has a tattoo for her children? Or the husband that has the tattoo for his wife? Or a nurse that has a tattoo for something? They're all hardened criminals in your book? Because that's what your stereotyping sounds like to me.

The guy didn't take the step back. Ideals and thoughts like what you've placed out and the people who share them have taken the step back.

 

[TheRealCallie]

It sounds like you are basing a whole group of people on your judgments of ONE person. I really hope you can see how wrong that is. I know many people covered in tats (as I said, I know 3 tattoo artists) and they don't do drugs, they aren't abusive ******** or have criminal records....well, the one does, but it was self defense and he was wrongly found guilty of assault.
If you have an image of someone because of some ink or piercing or type of haircut, that's not their fault. It's yours. Knowing OF someone doesn't mean you KNOW them. It just means you've heard stories, those stories aren't always the whole truth and lots of times they are exaggerated.
As for your skulls and whatever being on men, that's not always true. I know quite a few women who have many skulls and/or "dark" tattoos and they are awesome people.

My ex has a very large tattoo on his back. It's the same tattoo his brother had and he added a kind of memorial for his brother to the tattoo. My brother in law was the sweetest guy you could ever meet, he never did wrong to anyone and would go out of his way to help anyone that needed help. He was one of the best and most helpful people I ever met in my life. So, you can't judge someone just because they have tattoos, because you don't know what's behind the tattoos.....the person or the meaning of the tats.

 

[TheSkaFish]

If you think all people with tattoos are scumbags because one person with some tattoos did something wrong... That sounds like a personal problem to me. It sounds like to me that you just don't like the dude, and want to ostracize him because you don't like him. If this guy didn't have tattoos, then what? You'd have nothing to say on that, would you?

What about the mother who has a tattoo for her children? Or the husband that has the tattoo for his wife? Or a nurse that has a tattoo for something? They're all hardened criminals in your book? Because that's what your stereotyping sounds like to me.

The guy didn't take the step back. Ideals and thoughts like what you've placed out and the people who share them have taken the step back.

Well, for starters, I think there is a difference between someone who tattoos the names of their loved ones on them like a child or a husband or a wife, and a guy who puts skulls and demons and **** on him and makes himself look like a gang member. There's a pretty big disparity between the two. It's not like someone gets an image like that on accident, or isn't trying to cultivate a certain image with it. If someone goes around wearing a shirt with a swastika on it, somehow "friendly, nice guy who just happens to really dig 90 degree angles and has no idea of the negative symbolism of it" isn't the first thought that comes to my mind.

I imagine it's the same problem with racism. Someone starts out having no problems with other races, then meets people who personify the negative stereotypes to a "t", AND has a bad experience involving such people. It doesn't help, that's for sure.

 

[user 115627]

The whole "oh, I'm such a tough guy, I'm such a rebel, I'm dangerous. You want to watch out for me" persona. It doesn't impress or intimidate me, but rather, makes me want to cut them down.

I don't think beards or tattoos are an effective way to be a tough guy anyway...every pansy can't get a tattoo these days as long as he pays for it. Personally I got nothing against tattoos but I'd never get one myself. I'm not too comfortable with the whole 'permanent' aspect which it is all about. Sure there are things like tattoo removal but it's still different afterwards. Same goes for piercings, especially those plugs and tunnels. I don't find these very fashionable either...

Anyway, hair grows back easier. One of the reasons why I shaved my head a couple of times. Because I knew I could 'go back'.

...and after all, intimidation is not so much about plain outside appearance now, is it?

 

[VanillaCreme]

Well, for starters, I think there is a difference between someone who tattoos the names of their loved ones on them like a child or a husband or a wife, and a guy who puts skulls and demons and **** on him and makes himself look like a gang member. There's a pretty big disparity between the two. It's not like someone gets an image like that on accident, or isn't trying to cultivate a certain image with it. If someone goes around wearing a shirt with a swastika on it, somehow "friendly, nice guy" isn't what I feel they're trying to portray.

I imagine it's the same problem with racism. Someone starts out having no problems with other races, then meets people who personify the negative stereotypes to a "t", AND has a bad experience involving such people. It doesn't help, that's for sure.

Racism exists for the most part because of many people's old-fashioned ideas about it. Disliking someone for the tone of their skin isn't their fault. It's a personal problem. You disliking someone, placing judgment on them, is your issue, not theirs. To assume someone who may look like a gang member is a violent criminal with not an ounce of goodness in them... It's your problem. If it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, well then, it must be one, right?

 

[TheSkaFish]

I don't think beards or tattoos are an effective way to be a tough guy anyway...every pansy can't get a tattoo these days as long as he pays for it. Personally I got nothing against tattoos but I'd never get one myself. I'm not too comfortable with the whole 'permanent' aspect which it is all about. Sure there are things like tattoo removal but it's still different afterwards. Same goes for piercings, especially those plugs and tunnels. I don't find these very fashionable either...

Anyway, hair grows back easier. One of the reasons why I shaved my head a couple of times. Because I knew I could 'go back'.

That is true, anyone can get one as long as they have the money to do so. But at the same time, like I said, there is the look of someone trying to show their love for someone or something, or do something artistic....and on the other hand, there is the look that says "I am in a gang, or at least, I want you to think I am in a gang". They are very distinct.

...and after all, intimidation is not so much about plain outside appearance now, is it?

American Psycho, I've seen it. Nonetheless, I wouldn't say his appearance is friendly or non-threatening either. The characters still gave off a douchey presence, and you know that the power such a person has often goes to their head and they believe the rules don't apply. Who knows what they're really capable of, you know? It doesn't put me at ease any more than the gangbanger image.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Well, for starters, I think there is a difference between someone who tattoos the names of their loved ones on them like a child or a husband or a wife, and a guy who puts skulls and demons and **** on him and makes himself look like a gang member. There's a pretty big disparity between the two. It's not like someone gets an image like that on accident, or isn't trying to cultivate a certain image with it. If someone goes around wearing a shirt with a swastika on it, somehow "friendly, nice guy who just happens to really dig 90 degree angles and has no idea of the negative symbolism of it" isn't the first thought that comes to my mind.

I imagine it's the same problem with racism. Someone starts out having no problems with other races, then meets people who personify the negative stereotypes to a "t", AND has a bad experience involving such people. It doesn't help, that's for sure.

Skulls don't always mean a bad thing. Perhaps a person just likes them, perhaps it symbolizing something you have no idea about. Just because YOU perceive something in a bad way, doesn't mean everyone does.

There are always people who meet a stereotype to a T....however, stereotypes are mostly just ********. They generally don't apply to even half of a group of people. Stereotypes are basically just rumors.
My ex always said I turn "black" when I'm angry...meaning that I make lots of gestures with my hands and whatnot. Sorry, but that's not a "black" trait....it's a person trait. Some people just talk with their hands.
But hey, you know what? If you (generalized you, btw) somehow manage to piss me off, I will go apeshit on your ***. I will go "ghetto" or "gangsta" or whatever on you, because that's how I do things. **** with me (or my kids) and I'll **** you up, plain and simple. HOWEVER, it takes a whole **** of a lot to piss me off to the point that I take it there, so most people have no idea what I'm capable of. I haven't had to go there in over a decade and hope I never have to again.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Who is that guy? I mean, maybe he's a doctor now. But he could have been a gangbanger in the past, when he got those tattoos. The spiderweb, I've heard that means "I've been to jail", actually. Maybe he was a completely different person then, who would have fit the stereotype.

---

If you want me to stop saying angry, hateful things about people like this I suppose I can give it a little more effort. And I also suppose that if I ever did meet anyone who defied the stereotype, it would help balance out my views. I guess there is a chance of that happening. But it's going to take more than a handful of positive examples to change my mind, and it's going to take more than a day or two.

 

[Alma lost her spoon]

Skaf-
One of the great things about tattoos is they are an expression of what the wearer themselves associates with their body art-it's a personal thing & whatever you think of someone's tattoos doesn't really matter in the end, it's their choice & their body. You are entitled to your opinion of course, even if it does make you appear small minded.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Just because they were once in a gang or whatever doesn't mean they are still a bad person. Some people don't have a choice other than be in this gang or be killed. Not everyone wants to die. However, here's a story about a guy who covers gang tattoos and sex/human trafficking tattoos for free so they can help them get away from that life. A person's past does not define who you are today, people grow up and realize they did stupid ****, some didn't have a choice. Never assume you know what happened.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/this-guy-transforms-ex-gang-members-tattoos-for-free#32kijv7

 

[Disaffected]

Eww buzzfeed...

 

[TheRealCallie]

If you want me to stop saying angry, hateful things about people like this I suppose I can give it a little more effort. And I also suppose that if I ever did meet anyone who defied the stereotype, it would help balance out my views. I guess there is a chance of that happening. But it's going to take more than a handful of positive examples to change my mind, and it's going to take more than a day or two.

Instead of scowling at them when you see tattoo'd people, why not take a chance and say hi to them, see what happens?
But, keep in mind that you don't know these people, so there's no way you can know what they are like or what they really do in life. A lot of people have tattoos, you just can't see them.

If you met someone and got to know them really well and decided you liked them and they turned into your best friend. Then you found out they had a rather large tattoo on their back of a skull/demon/whatever....would that change your opinion of them? Would you automatically revert to you "I hate tattoo people, you are evil" ways and disregard him completely?

---

Eww buzzfeed...

lol, yeah, I know...didn't want to find a better source, so you'll have to live with that.

---

Here's another example of people with tattoos. You don't know who they are. If you saw this guy at work, you would never know he had tattoos. Yet, if you saw him out about without sleeves, you would judge him harshly, without even knowing that he likely saved someone's life not too long ago.

 

[TheSkaFish]

If you met someone and got to know them really well and decided you liked them and they turned into your best friend. Then you found out they had a rather large tattoo on their back of a skull/demon/whatever....would that change your opinion of them? Would you automatically revert to you "I hate tattoo people, you are evil" ways and disregard him completely?

Well, until it happens I don't know. I imagine if I am friends with someone, then there is more good than bad. And if I am friends with them, then we probably already share values, even if they have tattoos. So they probably would not have any of the traits that I wouldn't want to associate with, like serious criminal activity, prison, and hard drug use. If they don't do those things, and additionally don't have a jock-ish "I own the world" attitude, which they probably wouldn't if we were indeed friends, then I'd say that it would probably be okay, actually.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.

Mahatma Gandhi

 

[Alma lost her spoon]

Great quote Eve!

 

[VanillaCreme]

Well, until it happens I don't know. I imagine if I am friends with someone, then there is more good than bad. And if I am friends with them, then we probably already share values, even if they have tattoos. So they probably would not have any of the traits that I wouldn't want to associate with, like serious criminal activity, prison, and hard drug use. If they don't do those things, and additionally don't have a jock-ish "I own the world" attitude, which they probably wouldn't if we were indeed friends, then I'd say that it would probably be okay, actually.

So, it's only okay when you deem it to be. I gotcha ya.

 

[TheSkaFish]

So, it's only okay when you deem it to be. I gotcha ya.

More like, the way I see this issue at this point in time, it would take that much for me to be okay with it. Perhaps people don't like my views on this, but at the same time, I don't really like being told I should be okay with everyone.

If I'm going to change my mind on this at least to a level of acceptance, then it would be most helpful to not be made to feel that people are pushing their thoughts on me.

 

[EveWasFramed]

And another one I like....

So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, 'The good outnumber you, and we always will.'