how long is too long to wait for someone?

[Just Games]

Look it's well past my cocoa time but the terms stalker and abusive I'm just not getting.Seems funny to me how so many of us have got so wound up about a guy who's sent a couple of messages and written some poems that he hasn't even sent.He doesn't even know if she's in a relationship or not so it's a bit harsh to say he's a stalker.To say someone who hasn't answered a couple of messages is abusive...well a bit far fetched.I'm sure like me a bit later he'll laugh to himself and think was she really worth the effort.....hopefully like his other thread where alot of over girls like his poems he'll meet someone else,because that's the best way to forget about someone.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Look it's well past my cocoa time but the terms stalker and abusive I'm just not getting.Seems funny to me how so many of us have got so wound up about a guy who's sent a couple of messages and written some poems that he hasn't even sent.He doesn't even know if she's in a relationship or not so it's a bit harsh to say he's a stalker.To say someone who hasn't answered a couple of messages  is abusive...well a bit far fetched.I'm sure like me a bit later he'll laugh to himself and think was she really worth the effort.....hopefully like his other thread where alot of over girls like his poems he'll meet someone else,because that's the best way to forget about someone.

Agreed.  +1

I really disagree with how shaming tactics seem to be the go-to response on this site when it comes to these issues. You'd think we'd be more understanding of each other since we've shared similar experiences and feelings.  That doesn't mean only telling people what they want to hear, or being yes-men and yes-women - it just means giving people space to feel what they feel, and letting them work it out in their own way.

I shouldn't get worked up though.  I'm busy, and I don't have any skin in this game.  I just tried to offer OP a different perspective that I hoped would be more relatable, and a suggestion to take time off and rethink this whole thing, because that's what worked for me to get out of a very similar situation and I didn't see anyone else telling him that.  I remember how the shaming tactics were used on me too and it didn't work at all, all it did was upset me more cause I felt like people were rooting for my problem, for me to stay stuck in my social place, for my loneliness and against me. It made entrench my position, and made me want to "win", instead of thinking about what I was even trying to win anyway, and why or if I even really wanted it, if it was worth all the unhappiness, and if it ever really made me happy at all.  

I just noticed how the more people piled shaming words on him like "stalker", the more OP said he would "never surrender" and things like that.  I could see things going the same way for OP as they did for me, where it became about taking sides and "winning", when it doesn't seem like he's stopped to really think about what he's struggling for and if it's even something he truly wants. The only thing that worked for me was when someone told me the same thing I told OP - take time to separate yourself from the situation and look at it more objectively. And even that was slow going, but it worked in the end whereas the shaming tactics didn't, so I thought I'd pass it along.

Like you, Just Games, I've had it happen twice now where I looked back and shook my head and wondered why I struggled so hard for some girls, what I even saw in them anyway.  Sometimes crushes are real, but sometimes it's something we go along with, just because we have for so long.  But if we stopped and thought about it, maybe the crush wouldn't make sense anymore, and fade away.

 

[Just Games]

Thanks Skafish but I'm afraid I was guilty of it myself but I just thought it was getting a bit strong later on.It's his choice and he's not harming this girl in any way,she probably hasn't any idea what is going on with him because he hasn't contacted her at all after the messages.In fact good luck to him if he wants to be single,he seems happy with it at the present.I just wanted to convey how great it was when I met someone soon after, eradicating the obsession that was going on in mind because I was so infatuated with my first.I completely forgot about her after I met my next one because she was so great but in vastly different ways ,so I was thinking why the hell did I get so worked up about the first.I hope he doesn't think I'm lecturing,just hope he finds happiness out of it all.

 

[Azariah]

There's a story in the Bible where a guy waited for a girl for seven years and when the time was up the father of the girl tricked him. He said it was customary for the oldest daughter to be given in marriage first. So he had to work another 7 years for the real girl he wanted. I think his name was Jacob and the wives Leah and Rachel. So it was a total of 14 years he waited.

At least I'm not the only one to wait more than ten years.

 

[Finished]

 

[morrowrd]

There's a story in the Bible where a guy waited for a girl for seven years and when the time was up the father of the girl tricked him. He said it was customary for the oldest daughter to be given in marriage first. So he had to work another 7 years for the real girl he wanted. I think his name was Jacob and the wives Leah and Rachel. So it was a total of 14 years he waited.

At least I'm not the only one to wait more than ten years.

heh heh heh, I liked that story. There's alot more to it, but that would take a few pages.

 

[priscella]

Finished I love your video for it says a whole lot without words and it enables one to bring thinking forward without thinking--loved it...priscella

 

[morrowrd]

Look it's well past my cocoa time but the terms stalker and abusive I'm just not getting.Seems funny to me how so many of us have got so wound up about a guy who's sent a couple of messages and written some poems that he hasn't even sent.He doesn't even know if she's in a relationship or not so it's a bit harsh to say he's a stalker.To say someone who hasn't answered a couple of messages  is abusive...well a bit far fetched.I'm sure like me a bit later he'll laugh to himself and think was she really worth the effort.....hopefully like his other thread where alot of over girls like his poems he'll meet someone else,because that's the best way to forget about someone.

Agreed.  +1

I really disagree with how shaming tactics seem to be the go-to response on this site when it comes to these issues.  You'd think we'd be more understanding of each other since we've shared similar experiences and feelings.  That doesn't mean only telling people what they want to hear, or being yes-men and yes-women - it just means giving people space to feel what they feel, and letting them work it out in their own way.  

I shouldn't get worked up though.  I'm busy, and I don't have any skin in this game.  I just tried to offer OP a different perspective that I hoped would be more relatable, and a suggestion to take time off and rethink this whole thing, because that's what worked for me to get out of a very similar situation and I didn't see anyone else telling him that.  I remember how the shaming tactics were used on me too and it didn't work at all, all it did was upset me more cause I felt like people were rooting for my problem, for me to stay stuck in my social place, for my loneliness and against me.  It made entrench my position, and made me want to "win", instead of thinking about what I was even trying to win anyway, and why or if I even really wanted it, if it was worth all the unhappiness, and if it ever really made me happy at all.  

I just noticed how the more people piled shaming words on him like "stalker", the more OP said he would "never surrender" and things like that.  I could see things going the same way for OP as they did for me, where it became about taking sides and "winning", when it doesn't seem like he's stopped to really think about what he's struggling for and if it's even something he truly wants.  The only thing that worked for me was when someone told me the same thing I told OP - take time to separate yourself from the situation and look at it more objectively.  And even that was slow going, but it worked in the end whereas the shaming tactics didn't, so I thought I'd pass it along.  

Like you, Just Games, I've had it happen twice now where I looked back and shook my head and wondered why I struggled so hard for some girls, what I even saw in them anyway.  Sometimes crushes are real, but sometimes it's something we go along with, just because we have for so long.  But if we stopped and thought about it, maybe the crush wouldn't make sense anymore, and fade away

Who's shaming? We're talking about a man who has obsessed over someone for over 10 years....wrote songs, poems, and created a fantasy in their mind about this person who has no idea this is going on. It's a pretty logical assumption, although it's a judgement based on a pattern, that this person has most likely looked up her facebook page, googled her. (stalking)

The truth hurts sometimes - and shame only hurts if guilt is involved.  If your guilty of doing something deviant, (deviant meaning making a willful choice you know is wrong but are pretty sure you can get away with it) harms the deviant.  Causing shame, (not trying but if it happens) really is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe it's time to change.  If you're system isn't working....well maybe it's time to change it.  That's where we here on this forum fit in.....advice.  Then there's the role models we all have....unknowing mentors.

I don't apologize for being blunt.

 

[priscella]

I do not think the person was shaming he was just being "blunt" so the individual who asked what to do in the first place "might finally listen" for his own good so as not to waste time in his life when obviously she is "not interested" in him in a romantic way..My opinion here. Like another member expressed in pictures---I enjoyed that post ----the meaning was in truth as other people see it---Why beat a dead horse?... The members on this forum have all been very good at answering questions trying to be polite it is only when they are pushed and pushed with the same lame logic that they have to resort to be blunt...Good for everyone and I sure hope the poster with the question gets his act together and think about other things other than the girl..Everybody gave him truth as they see it-----Good for them...thanks   priscella..

 

[ardour]

Who's shaming? We're talking about a man who has obsessed over someone for over 10 years....wrote songs, poems, and created a fantasy in their mind about this person who has no idea this is going on. It's a pretty logical assumption, although it's a judgement based on a pattern, that this person has most likely looked up her facebook page, googled her. (stalking)

The truth hurts sometimes - and shame only hurts if guilt is involved.  If your guilty of doing something deviant, (deviant meaning making a willful choice you know is wrong but are pretty sure you can get away with it) harms the deviant.  Causing shame, (not trying but if it happens) really is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe it's time to change.  If you're system isn't working....well maybe it's time to change it.  That's where we here on this forum fit in.....advice.  Then there's the role models we all have....unknowing mentors.

I don't apologize for being blunt.

Stalking has to involve *contact* with the victim.  Almost everyone has looked up a former crush. It isn't harassment if the person has no idea. What the OP is doing is harming himself, but you're attempting to shame him over harm to another, which as far as we know he isn't guilty of.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Who's shaming? We're talking about a man who has obsessed over someone for over 10 years....wrote songs, poems, and created a fantasy in their mind about this person who has no idea this is going on. It's a pretty logical assumption, although it's a judgement based on a pattern, that this person has most likely looked up her facebook page, googled her. (stalking)

The truth hurts sometimes - and shame only hurts if guilt is involved.  If your guilty of doing something deviant, (deviant meaning making a willful choice you know is wrong but are pretty sure you can get away with it) harms the deviant.  Causing shame, (not trying but if it happens) really is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe it's time to change.  If you're system isn't working....well maybe it's time to change it.  That's where we here on this forum fit in.....advice.  Then there's the role models we all have....unknowing mentors.

I don't apologize for being blunt.

I didn't say that I was singling you or any other one person out.  In fact, I've agreed with several of your past posts over the years, or found some of your ideas interesting - particularly your ideas that frustration is the result of a lack of power and to get rid of frustration you have to find a way to get power.  And on how your reforms changed the way things went for you.

I just said that there tends to be a lot of shaming on this site, about this subject, and I don't think it's the best, most effective way to reach people since I for one know I don't respond well to it and this thread, and some of the interactions in it, reminded me of a situation I went through in the past on here.  

I saw it happen in the thread where the more people told this guy to give up and called him a stalker, the more stubborn he became.  And I thought of my own situation and how it was like that - when instead of wanting to prove the people who shamed me wrong and wanting to laugh in their face, I should have instead been asking myself - do I even really like this girl?  When I actually stopped to think about it, I realized that I didn't.  All the people telling me to "move on", or who tried to invalidate what I thought I was feeling, didn't help.  The only ones who actually helped me break the thought loop were the ones who listened to me, let me think and feel what I thought and felt, and encouraged me to chill out and really think it all over.  

If it's anything like my situation, I don't think OP really even likes this girl, he just thinks he does.  But instead of fighting about it I think it's better to just get him to think about it, and he might come to the same conclusion.  It worked for me, so I just thought I'd pass it along.

 

[Finished]

 

[priscella]

I like to know where the first poster went to and is he even still on the forum?  Maybe he should contribute some more...sick of these people that put stuff out there and do not clean it up. I can see that I'm in a good mood this morning and just think I have to go through the whole day like this---lol lol,,

 

[morrowrd]

Who's shaming? We're talking about a man who has obsessed over someone for over 10 years....wrote songs, poems, and created a fantasy in their mind about this person who has no idea this is going on. It's a pretty logical assumption, although it's a judgement based on a pattern, that this person has most likely looked up her facebook page, googled her. (stalking)

The truth hurts sometimes - and shame only hurts if guilt is involved.  If your guilty of doing something deviant, (deviant meaning making a willful choice you know is wrong but are pretty sure you can get away with it) harms the deviant.  Causing shame, (not trying but if it happens) really is not necessarily a bad thing, maybe it's time to change.  If you're system isn't working....well maybe it's time to change it.  That's where we here on this forum fit in.....advice.  Then there's the role models we all have....unknowing mentors.

I don't apologize for being blunt.

I didn't say that I was singling you or any other one person out.  In fact, I've agreed with several of your past posts over the years, or found some of your ideas interesting - particularly your ideas that frustration is the result of a lack of power and to get rid of frustration you have to find a way to get power.  And on how your reforms changed the way things went for you.

I just said that there tends to be a lot of shaming on this site, about this subject, and I don't think it's the best, most effective way to reach people since I for one know I don't respond well to it and this thread, and some of the interactions in it, reminded me of a situation I went through in the past on here.  

I saw it happen in the thread where the more people told this guy to give up and called him a stalker, the more stubborn he became.  And I thought of my own situation and how it was like that - when instead of wanting to prove the people who shamed me wrong and wanting to laugh in their face, I should have instead been asking myself - do I even really like this girl?  When I actually stopped to think about it, I realized that I didn't.  All the people telling me to "move on", or who tried to invalidate what I thought I was feeling, didn't help.  The only ones who actually helped me break the thought loop were the ones who listened to me, let me think and feel what I thought and felt, and encouraged me to chill out and really think it all over.  

If it's anything like my situation, I don't think OP really even likes this girl, he just thinks he does.  But instead of fighting about it I think it's better to just get him to think about it, and he might come to the same conclusion.  It worked for me, so I just thought I'd pass it along.

The thing that caused me to reply in the beginning was reading all the advice people were giving this poster, encouraging him not to contact this girl.  Some of the advice I would have given myself - usually I read replies before I reply to a post if I've decided to do so, just to see if what I planned on saying, isn't being said already - and it was.  And my thoughts were "why are you here asking people what they think? Why are you asking for advice if you just planned on doing what you're going to do anyway?"  Then......I saw somebody wrote that as well.  Then the poster doubles down and moves forward, deciding to initiate contact..... I do the math, I add that behavior to past behavior and come up with my own inference of what I believe is going to happen, which is what I wrote.  I am not god here, I'm making a judgement and I believe it was sound. We aren't always going to "pet" people the right way when we share feedback.  My feedback isn't armchair theories either, so using the word stalker wasn't something I took lightly. I don't throw that term around every day, only if I believe it fits.  I'm basing that judgement on a person who has obsessed for over a decade about an unsuspecting girl, wrote poems, songs, and then comes on this forum asking for advice, and then taking that advice at times as encouragement, when the message was the opposite.   Then what happens next? Do we take a girls polite rejection somehow as a message of interest?  Predicting future behavior is by looking at past behavior.  Yes, I am filling in the blanks using judgement, based on the writing, not in person knowledge.  And we compare that writing to real life stories we all have in our little worlds. 

I am not here to hurt people's feelings either, just giving out advice when I feel I might have some.  So if I sound harsh, don't take it that way.  Being blunt isn't being rude - it's just cold truth sometimes. 

And thank you for your feedback on my past sharing, I take it as a compliment that you learned something from me. Personal reform was a long process, and it was over 10 years of work.  Being a loner, it's not often I have the opportunity to share about that experience.  My son patterns his life after mine, and now my step son has been as well.  I told my wife after she said (when I'm not around) that he talks like me, that I'm honored. And back to this forum, that'a what we all try to do, pass on anything we've learned to those who are teachable, those who want help.

Way in the beginning I came up with a saying, "when you want help bad enough, you will find it. Sometimes in unusual places."

I wish you well.

 

[priscella]

morrowrd--very very nice and well put and you in my opinion have nice writing and yes we all want to leave something of us for the future even if it is just plain commonsense advice whether to our children or to perfect strangers--advice with honesty...Thank you.....priscella

 

[morrowrd]

morrowrd--very very nice and well put and you in my opinion have nice writing and yes we all want to leave something of us for the future even if it is just plain commonsense advice whether to our children or to perfect strangers--advice with honesty...Thank you.....priscella

Thank you

 

[MissBehave]

Can't say I get why the responses here would be considered shaming someone. None of what was said was being used as a way to personally attack op. Wouldn't think either of us are out to shame or hurt anyone deliberately here. 
This wasn't a diary post so what he is gonna get is our opinions.

I see that a lot of women and men have unpleasant experiences with people who don't listen to the word no. I've personally experienced it.
The decision to disregard a person's choice of who they want to have in their life isn't healthy. I feel like some treat this almost like a game, if they just are persistent enough then they will earn and prove themselves as a valuable mate. It doesn't make any sense. 
I think the reason people went straight to the core and answered bluntly is caused by the seriousness of the situation. Being blunt isn't a bad thing. 

At the end of the day, op decides what to take from these answers.

 

[Finished]

The decision to disregard a person's choice of who they want to have in their life isn't healthy. I feel like some treat this almost like a game, if they just are persistent enough then they will earn and prove themselves as a valuable mate. It doesn't make any sense. 

Well, it's called mixed signals. Probably not in this case, although I doubt we are getting even half of the real story. It's much more fun to make up the missing information like being a stalker. But, I used to think that when someone said no to me that was it and I was out of there. Later, a couple women asked why I gave up so easily. I thought WTF? You said you where done with me. So I left. You didn't call me back. They said they wanted me to fight for them so they knew that I REALLY loved them. Again, I thought WTF? Does saying I love you not mean anything?

So, I consulted with co-workers and a friend. They all said pretty much the same thing. You just have to read the signals. I thought, oh F it! Like others on here, I'm not good at reading signals. I've always been told no means no. Now I know that it also means maybe and yes depending on the circumstances.

And......... to stir things up, maybe the op is correct. After all it worked out great in the movie, "Waiting For Forever (2010)." They guy was a goofy dude and the girl was hot, Rachel Bilson. The guy actually drove to where she lived and stalked her. At first she was creeped out. But, then slowly, he won her over. Maybe that's what the op needs to do. Ha! ha!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1296898/

If it works in the movies then it should work in real life.  After all, many, if not most, women pattern their marriages / weddings after what they see on TV and the movies.

 

[priscella]

Finished it is quite a world that we have and I really enjoy your posting because of the care free type of attitude. You do have that going for you and I sure hope someday that life spirits bring a special person into your life...lol  I can just imagine what they might be like---what a kick....This thread might as well end because the owner of the thread has deleted himself from this website. It was such a popular thread maybe someone else should start a new one--just saying...

 

[Finished]

Yeah, you just have to start off saying something outlandish and / or controversial. You know something like, people are alone simply because they are expecting too much from another person. Ha! ha!