I think that the main problem of today is respect

[ardour]

To add to kamya's post, if everyone took that attitide then a good part of the framework of society would disintegrate. For example how many people would get into a long term relationship involving kids, the whole deal, without feeling the least bit entitled to any commitment in return? Not many, and of them mainly the irresponsible.

 

[Meaw]

I'm with OP - it's not a kind thing to do. ("Oh, there the darn cat comes with its eternal talk about kindness again, sigh.") Thing is, for the less socially adept people like for example me, sure, it would hurt a bit, but we (or at least I) would be able to take that, and also would prefer that to the many hours of thinking "They said they would tell if I was anoying, if I was a waste of their time, if they'd be better off not talking to me".

I'd like to say most people seem to have this "ghosting" behaviour. Just drop an excuse along the lines of "I'm tired these days, I have to limit my social circles, not sure when I might speak to you again" and then I can give my "Okay, take care, stay safe" back, and we can both move on and not have to wonder and wonder and wonder.

 

[roy1986]

I have to be honest friends, the saying "respect has to be earned" bothers me greatly, it's the whole reason why people treat each other like **** and feel fine with it.

Love has to be earned, respect is something every person deserves from his surrounding, you treat people how you wish to be treated and if people respected each other more, regardless if they know them or not, perhaps this forum would not have existed.
Many people, like some in this forum, are tired of being treated so coldly by society, so they have decided to step out of the game
and forget about traditional lifestyle altogether (family and kids) because it's too hard, trying to build something with anyone
while people have no respect to your time.
When it reaches a level when someone doesn't even have the respect to utter few words saying that you should move on, it makes me sick.

So I am sorry no, love is earned, respected and courtesy should be granted at first, if they cannot, then you shouldn't even attempt anything with that person.
People should first ask themselves "do I respect her/him", if the answer is no, don't date.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I think you are the one completely missing my point

All of it was to point out why the logic you and nilla always apply to these situations doesn't really hold up. I'm not saying you should actually be an ******* back, but that if you did become an *******, its ok. Never feel bad for anything. You aren't hurting anyone. They are simply allowing themselves to feel hurt. 

Any type of behavior is ok and shouldnt be judged or looked down on as long as it doesn't break any laws. Anyone that feels any other way about anything you do... well thats their own problem to deal with. It doesn't say anything bad about you and people like you.

Traditionally, a polite or decent person with manners would treat others with respect and not ghost someone. If you do ghost someone, you should expect to be seen as disrespectful.

If a lot of people seem to be acting this way. Then it means that there are a lot of people without (traditional) common decency or respect for others.

Is this a problem? Does a polite society function better? I dunno. But it makes a lot more sense to talk about that than to try to instantly tell people they should be ok with being treated poorly and that if they feel bad then its their own fault for expecting anything different.

Insulting people generally doesn't break any laws and I don't think that's okay, THAT is disrespectful. 
However, my point stems from the fact that you don't know why a person stops talking to you.  There could be many reasons behind the act of ignoring someone, not all of which has a disrespectful reason. 
Just because someone drops you like that doesn't mean they don't have manners or common decency.  I'm not so much saying that you have to be "okay" with it, you can feel hurt by it, but to judge someone and basically bash them for ignoring you isn't right.  Of course you can feel hurt when you are abandoned, just like you can feel hurt when someone tells you to **** off, whether it's politely or not. 
Chances are high that even if that person were to tell you up front, you would STILL be questioning WHY.  You aren't entitled to know why, chances are also high that you will never know why. 

Another of my points was that it would likely be very similar if they did say something.  

To add to kamya's post, if everyone took that attitide then a good part of the framework of society would disintegrate.  For example how many people would get into a long term relationship involving kids, the whole deal, without feeling the least bit entitled to any commitment in return? Not many, and of them mainly the irresponsible.

Kids don't guarantee you a commitment.  No one should feel entitled to a commitment just because kids are involved.  If things aren't working out, it would be better for the kids, in the long run, to break on good terms than stick it out and make things worse by adding misery and resentment to the fold.  Kids pick up and see a lot, more than most people realize.  I'm not saying it won't hurt them to have their parental figures (whether biologically or not) split up, but done correctly, they won't suffer for it and would be likely be happier knowing their parents are happier apart than they were together. 

Hell, my ex was with a girl for four years before they broke up and while I can't say I care for her overly much, I know she cares about my kids and my kids care about her.  I still let her see my kids to this day and my ex and her broke up almost 6 years ago.  I would also let his most recent ex see my kids if she wanted since my kids become attached to her after four years, but I don't think she really cares about them.   I know this is a little off topic, but it reinforces what I said.

I have to be honest friends, the saying "respect has to be earned" bothers me greatly, it's the whole reason why people treat each other like **** and feel fine with it.

Love has to be earned, respect is something every person deserves from his surrounding, you treat people how you wish to be treated and if people respected each other more, regardless if they know them or not, perhaps this forum would not have existed.
Many people, like some in this forum, are tired of being treated so coldly by society, so they have decided to step out of the game
and forget about traditional lifestyle altogether (family and kids) because it's too hard, trying to build something with anyone
while people have no respect to your time.
When it reaches a level when someone doesn't even have the respect to utter few words saying that you should move on, it makes me sick.

So I am sorry no, love is earned, respected and courtesy should be granted at first, if they cannot, then you shouldn't even attempt anything with that person.
People should first ask themselves "do I respect her/him", if the answer is no, don't date.

Love is not earned, because you can't choose who you love and, IMO, if you think you can, you don't really know what love is.  (generalized you, not you specifically).

How can you know if you respect someone when you don't really know them?  So you're saying that if you met...thinking of a horrible person...Ted Bundy (before you knew he was a serial killer), he should automatically have your respect?  Common courtesy I will give you, it should be employed to everyone, but this is real life, not a fantasy world....that's just not going to happen all the time and you aren't entitled to it. 
People have free will, so they are going to be whoever or whatever they want to be, the same as you are going to be who or what you want to be.  Some people are rude, someone people are nice, but in the end, just because something or someone comes off as rude, doesn't mean that it was meant to be.  You don't know what other people are thinking, you don't know why other people do what they do and it is just as rude and disrespectful to assume that you do.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Believing that respect is earned and not demanded doesn't mean someone's rude. I'm polite and nice to people. I smile, nod my head, say, "Hey, how you doing?" But that doesn't mean being nice is equal to anyone I'm nice to has my respect. It's probably more of a basic level of respect, I suppose. A respectable niceness? Which is a good thing for anyone to have in general.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Believing that respect is earned and not demanded doesn't mean someone's rude. I'm polite and nice to people. I smile, nod my head, say, "Hey, how you doing?" But that doesn't mean being nice is equal to anyone I'm nice to has my respect. It's probably more of a basic level of respect, I suppose. A respectable niceness? Which is a good thing for anyone to have in general.

I think I would say civility, as opposed to respectable niceness. 

Take the stupid ***** my brother married.  I can't stand her....no one can, except my brother, yet when we are around family or in public, we are civil to each other.

 

[ardour]

I think you are the one completely missing my point

All of it was to point out why the logic you and nilla always apply to these situations doesn't really hold up. I'm not saying you should actually be an ******* back, but that if you did become an *******, its ok. Never feel bad for anything. You aren't hurting anyone. They are simply allowing themselves to feel hurt. 

Any type of behavior is ok and shouldnt be judged or looked down on as long as it doesn't break any laws. Anyone that feels any other way about anything you do... well thats their own problem to deal with. It doesn't say anything bad about you and people like you.

Traditionally, a polite or decent person with manners would treat others with respect and not ghost someone. If you do ghost someone, you should expect to be seen as disrespectful.

If a lot of people seem to be acting this way. Then it means that there are a lot of people without (traditional) common decency or respect for others.

Is this a problem? Does a polite society function better? I dunno. But it makes a lot more sense to talk about that than to try to instantly tell people they should be ok with being treated poorly and that if they feel bad then its their own fault for expecting anything different.

Insulting people generally doesn't break any laws and I don't think that's okay, THAT is disrespectful. 
However, my point stems from the fact that you don't know why a person stops talking to you.  There could be many reasons behind the act of ignoring someone, not all of which has a disrespectful reason. 
Just because someone drops you like that doesn't mean they don't have manners or common decency.  I'm not so much saying that you have to be "okay" with it, you can feel hurt by it, but to judge someone and basically bash them for ignoring you isn't right.  Of course you can feel hurt when you are abandoned, just like you can feel hurt when someone tells you to **** off, whether it's politely or not. 
Chances are high that even if that person were to tell you up front, you would STILL be questioning WHY.  You aren't entitled to know why, chances are also high that you will never know why. 

Another of my points was that it would likely be very similar if they did say something.  

To add to kamya's post, if everyone took that attitide then a good part of the framework of society would disintegrate.  For example how many people would get into a long term relationship involving kids, the whole deal, without feeling the least bit entitled to any commitment in return? Not many, and of them mainly the irresponsible.

Kids don't guarantee you a commitment.  No one should feel entitled to a commitment just because kids are involved.  If things aren't working out, it would be better for the kids, in the long run, to break on good terms than stick it out and make things worse by adding misery and resentment to the fold.  Kids pick up and see a lot, more than most people realize.  I'm not saying it won't hurt them to have their parental figures (whether biologically or not) split up, but done correctly, they won't suffer for it and would be likely be happier knowing their parents are happier apart than they were together. 

Hell, my ex was with a girl for four years before they broke up and while I can't say I care for her overly much, I know she cares about my kids and my kids care about her.  I still let her see my kids to this day and my ex and her broke up almost 6 years ago.  I would also let his most recent ex see my kids if she wanted since my kids become attached to her after four years, but I don't think she really cares about them.   I know this is a little off topic, but it reinforces what I said.

I have to be honest friends, the saying "respect has to be earned" bothers me greatly, it's the whole reason why people treat each other like **** and feel fine with it.

Love has to be earned, respect is something every person deserves from his surrounding, you treat people how you wish to be treated and if people respected each other more, regardless if they know them or not, perhaps this forum would not have existed.
Many people, like some in this forum, are tired of being treated so coldly by society, so they have decided to step out of the game
and forget about traditional lifestyle altogether (family and kids) because it's too hard, trying to build something with anyone
while people have no respect to your time.
When it reaches a level when someone doesn't even have the respect to utter few words saying that you should move on, it makes me sick.

So I am sorry no, love is earned, respected and courtesy should be granted at first, if they cannot, then you shouldn't even attempt anything with that person.
People should first ask themselves "do I respect her/him", if the answer is no, don't date.

Love is not earned, because you can't choose who you love and, IMO, if you think you can, you don't really know what love is.  (generalized you, not you specifically).

How can you know if you respect someone when you don't really know them?  So you're saying that if you met...thinking of a horrible person...Ted Bundy (before you knew he was a serial killer), he should automatically have your respect?  Common courtesy I will give you, it should be employed to everyone, but this is real life, not a fantasy world....that's just not going to happen all the time and you aren't entitled to it. 
People have free will, so they are going to be whoever or whatever they want to be, the same as you are going to be who or what you want to be.  Some people are rude, someone people are nice, but in the end, just because something or someone comes off as rude, doesn't mean that it was meant to be.  You don't know what other people are thinking, you don't know why other people do what they do and it is just as rude and disrespectful to assume that you do.

So it's wrong to judge ghosting behaviour, but not wrong to behave this way.

Unless there was abuse going on I don't see how the reason for ending it is relevant.   In a longer relationship it shows blatant disregard for someone. No closure.So it leaves the person confused, guessing, in a turmoil of conflicting emotions. You're supposed to care about something like that even if you no longer want to be romantically involved with them.

If it's after just a few dates it's still inconsiderate because it implies they aren't worth the minimal effort and mild discomfort involved in a short message clarifying things.

Lordy. Never wrong are you. I don't think I've ever seen you demonstrate that you've ever really considered another viewpoint.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I don't think I've ever seen you concede anything since I've been here or demonstrate that you've ever considered another viewpoint.  You're  MO is to invalidate anyone who complains, misinterpret or overlook arguments, then just say the opposite thing.

You should look harder then, because I have.  Quite often, actually.  And even in THIS thread, I believe I said I understand what he's saying.  Just because I don't agree with someone doesn't mean I don't see it from their viewpoint. 

But thank you for proving a big part of my point.  You don't know me all that well, so you have no idea what my MO is, yet here you are assuming that you do.  That is where most people get into trouble with their emotions.  They assume that they know exactly why someone does something, but there's no way that they can because they aren't that person.  Sometimes, even if you know a person very well you don't always know what their motives are for doing something.  Even if there is a so called "pattern," that doesn't mean EVERY time they do something is for the same reason.

 

[roy1986]

Yes Every person who I don't know deserve my respect, respecting someone is not about going into the sack with someone, it's about doing the basics, such sending a simple text saying "I'm sorry but no", it's about saying excuse me, hello and goodbye, it's about saying please, manners are basic respect, without any of it, we are not human.

The saying "respect has to be earned" is rediculous, because basically you are saying we can all treat each other like **** and you have to prove to me that you don't deserve to be treated this way... no.. I don't follow this path, a person doesn't have to love me, but damn right he/she has to respect the same way I respect them.

you know why many men and women decide to get out of the game? because dealing with people is overwhelming, you have good intention and by the end of the day you get screwed, from all the women I dated, Only about 1/4 are honorable people, given that statistics, I highly consider of staying alone.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Yes Every person who I don't know deserve my respect, respecting someone is not about going into the sack with someone, it's about doing the basics, such sending a simple text saying "I'm sorry but no", it's about saying excuse me, hello and goodbye, it's about saying please, manners are basic respect, without any of it, we are not human.

The saying "respect has to be earned" is rediculous, because basically you are saying we can all treat each other like **** and you have to prove to me that you don't deserve to be treated this way... no.. I don't follow this path, a person doesn't have to love me, but damn right he/she has to respect the same way I respect them.

you know why many men and women decide to get out of the game? because dealing with people is overwhelming, you have good intention and by the end of the day you get screwed, from all the women I dated, Only about 1/4 are honorable people, given that statistics, I highly consider of staying alone.

You can be decent to someone who you don't respect.  I just went to see a doctor about my son...based on what she said to me, I don't respect her, but I didn't become rude with her just because of that.

I think you are confusing decency with respect. They are two completely different things. 
Respect or the lack thereof is based on who a person is, their values and beliefs, their achievements.  You can't have respect for someone you don't know because you don't know those things about them, unless they are famous or in the news.  Temple Grandin has my respect because of what she has overcame, because of her achievements, but Joe Smoe down the street doesn't have my respect because I don't know anything about him. 

BUT, I would be polite to Joe Smoe down the street should I ever meet him because it's the decent thing to do. 
That doesn't mean, however, that Suzy Homemaker down the street feels the same way and it's HER choice to proceed how she chooses.

 

[VanillaCreme]

So it's wrong to judge ghosting behaviour, but not wrong to behave this way.

If you don't see it as being wrong, then it's not going to be an issue to you. If you feel it's okay to judge for it, then no one else should be able to tell you that it's not okay.

---

The saying "respect has to be earned" is rediculous, because basically you are saying we can all treat each other like **** and you have to prove to me that you don't deserve to be treated this way... no.. I don't follow this path, a person doesn't have to love me, but damn right he/she has to respect the same way I respect them.

I don't treat anyone like garbage because there's no or minimal respect for them. I don't know why such extreme thought is being put to that. You don't have to follow that path. No one said you did.

 

[Amelia]

I think it is understandable to feel disrespected when someone, friend or potential romantic partner, ignores you instead of detaching themselves from you with an explanation. I've lost count of the number of times men (and friends) decided to ignore me instead of just telling me that they were not interested to be in my company. You feel like a fool for continuing to try contacting them for awhile, only to realise they don't want to be contacted.

But I have come to understand that people are not always as mean spirited as we assume them to be. Of course, some are just plain inconsiderate. Some are cowardly. Some in fact, may have thought avoiding a straight uo confrontation was actually sparing you the discomfort and unpleasantness.

Either way, I think it is important to try to slowly not let these things affect you. I know it is difficult but you have to keep telling yourself that other people's poor ways of handling such situations are not your burden to carry. 

Nowadays when a friend or date ghosts me, I remind myself that nothing of value has been lost. I am still ok with or without these people. Whatever their reasons for ignoring me, for not saying something before disappearing...it is their problem, not mine. 

It has helped me to deal with such situations this way so maybe it can help you too.

 

[Siku]

There's always more than one side to everything. I've been on both sides of this situation.

I've gotten bitter, upset, closed-off, insecure, etc. A hole slew of emotions over someone whom I grew really fond of decides to just push me aside without a word and absolute confusion as to why. But you have to climb out of it and realize that it's not worth it. Self-reflect as well and grow from it. There's plenty of other people out there, someone's bound to enjoy your company. Don't assume the next person will be like the last either no matter how rough it gets, that in itself is being disrespectful to someone you've never even met. Think higher about it. Not lower.

I've unfortunately pushed people away for personal reasons that without going into long detail were in fact in both parties' best interest. Yes, it can be unfair to make that decision solely, but when you see things are becoming toxic you have to weigh the options. Sometimes not saying why can actually be an act of empathy when it's something sensitive or to someone who is known to be very sensitive. There's always different circumstances and different point of views with this sort of thing.

For example, what if you get real close with someone and you greatly enjoyed their company then they suddenly act completely different on you and show a side you've never seen. They may not feel they're different but in actuality, they are. However, the person has expressed being used or disrespected like what's being said in this very thread early on and you reassured them you wouldn't do that to them because you really like them. This is where it gets tricky, you know they're not able to take any sort of criticism and are very sensitive with suicidal tendencies. What do you do then? I know this is an extreme example but it's to put things into perspective. Not everyone can handle the truth or want to hear it. Empathy is a very double-edged sword. A very empathetic person can know who can and cannot handle the truth as well.

We all go through acquaintances throughout our entire lives and I feel like everyone has indirectly dismissed someone else's feelings or disrespected them without even realizing it. It's unavoidable unless you're a hermit and imo to say otherwise only proves your own obliviousness further. Just think of old high school friends alone. Unfortunately you learn as you get older to not get your expectations too high and to tread lightly. But it's entirely unfair and hypocritical to not give someone a chance just because of your past. Learn and grow, and try your absolute best to not become what you hate but also remember that you're only human.

 

[Tealeaf]

Respect is lacking, but to me it's completely different. There are many reasons people may choose not to respond, from time to fear to social pressure to not be in open conflict with others.

I've been treated very cruelly by men throughout my life. I've often been lied to, insulted, and faced pressure to have ***, to have *** without a condom, or do other things that I'd refused because I did not feel safe or they were not good for me. My experience is very common.

My first boyfriend was unhappy that we weren't having *** because both of us were too shy to purchase condoms, and in religious families. So he drugged me with something from his mother's medicine cabinet to try to make me more compliant.

In the past there were men who would literally pick fights with me to see if I cared enough to get involved. One admittedly deleted me from a social network and waited to see if I would notice or comment to him.

I could fill a novel.

 

[kamya]

I could fill a novel.

When/Where can I purchase this novel?

 

[ardour]

If someone's being/has been abusive, ghost away. The majority of the time it's a just cowardly means to remove oneself from a situation.

 

[morrowrd]

How can you develop love toward anyone, if people refuse to respect on another, prior to love.

For many women I was involved with, respect was just a recommendation and I honestly can't really understand
why would you do stuff like ignoring instead of doing the graceful thing and say "listen, I am sorry but it's not going to work out",

why does it always have to be in such a disgusting manner? whenever I a girl I don't want to be involved with tries to contact me, I simply do the honorable thing and tell her, I don't ignore her and then respond after she writes again, after several hours. 
That's completely messed up, you have a great date, you kiss, you think everything is alright and then a few days later, she gives you the "talk to the wall" treatment instead of simply rejecting you politely.

I can't describe how wrong this is, in so many different levels, it's one thing to get a rejection, but also treated like **** prior to it, that's messed up. 
I honestly can't see myself trusting anyone because of my past experiences.

This has been my mantra for a few years, and especially this year. That "R" word, it's an umbrella not just missing in the dating world, but society in general lately.  Our culture almost encourages self-centerdness and disrespect - from this generation of senior citizens, right down into the children's generation - defiance of authority, no respect for other peoples property/public property, strong senses of entitlement, judgmental attitudes, the widespread acceptance of prejudice as a norm, the list goes on.   

I can cite examples in my personal life of my own observation of the changes in people where I live - a "that was then, this is now" sort of thing.  Shopping anywhere for instance, I have noticed  a distinct  lack of courtesy, people for instance walking and texting on their phone bumping into you, and giving YOU a dirty look instead of apologizing. Students in public school being openly disrespectful of their teachers, outright dismissing them and refusing to cooperate, being disruptive in class and acting as if it's their right to behave as they please.  Look at all of the road rage incidents of late, driving on the public highways all of you can see these attitudes of me, me me.  Disregarding courtesy and traffic laws because they feel they can.

Anyway, it's been my private soap box this year. Respect, or the lack of, is catchy.  And combined with an atmosphere of self-centeredness, it's no wonder the culture of online dating is where it it.  Microwave dating so it's coined (by me) - go out with someone, tell them whatever it takes to get that second or third date, and secretly continue "shopping" for upgrades.  The whole system is one that encourages or at least facilitates fast in and out relationships, dismissing and disposing of others after leading them on, and a culture of using others.  Without respect, there is no relationship.  Without respect, there is no love.  One of the things about being in love, is you will NEVER need to lecture your partner on how to treat you. They will do it naturally.

 

[EveWasFramed]

I sometimes wonder about the subtle differences between words like respect, decency, common courtesy and the like.
For me, unless someone does something to me, they get treated with decency and common courtesy. From family and friends, to strangers.
Respect on the other hand, (for me at least) comes from people's actions. Again, this is just for ME.
If I see someone (friend, family, stranger) doing bad things, I either have no respect for them (strangers) or lose some or all respect for them (people I already know).
I guess I believe everyone deserves to be treated decently and with common courtesy unless they give me a reason to withdraw it. Respect is a little more of a gray area. People are taught to respect positions (elders, authority figures, law enforcement, etc.). But it's PEOPLE who are in those positions. Can you not respect a person but respect their position? Probably.
Anyway, I'm half asleep so this probably makes sense to exactly ZERO people. Lol

---

And to add to what I just said, "decency" will always be subjective since people's views of what's decent will be different.

 

[user 139760]

I think the main problem of today is the same problem that's always plagued humanity; it's people.
I personally thinks it starts with education. A lot of people don't believe in saying no to kids anymore, so those kids grow up expecting everything to be theirs and throw tantrums when things clash with what they want, or their vision of the world. It's not a new phenomenon at all, been around for probably hundreds of years, but it's expanded with the advancement of social media and the ease with which we can spread everything, with the advancement of psychology and psychyatry as well as the fascination to treat every single facet of human expression as an "illness" or "condition" treatable with pills. Not saying there aren't cases where it's necessary, mind you, but it seems to me as soon as the going gets though, instead of trying to actually discipline a kid, we load them with pills to calm them down, pills to help them sleep, natural products, herbalised tea aromas, or we stick them with 3 psycho-educators.
So when they grow up and you tell them no, they'll flip you off, because they never learned to reflect on the possibility of the world turning the way they want.

That's my take on it, anyway. Probably not entirely that either, but the factors of "the problem of today" are many, multuplie and enter in way too many variables to identify. I believe lack of respect to be a consequence of the state of things, not a cause per say.

 

[morrowrd]

I think the main problem of today is the same problem that's always plagued humanity; it's people.
I personally thinks it starts with education. A lot of people don't believe in saying no to kids anymore, so those kids grow up expecting everything to be theirs and throw tantrums when things clash with what they want, or their vision of the world. It's not a new phenomenon at all, been around for probably hundreds of years, but it's expanded with the advancement of social media and the ease with which we can spread everything, with the advancement of psychology and psychyatry as well as the fascination to treat every single facet of human expression as an "illness" or "condition" treatable with pills. Not saying there aren't cases where it's necessary, mind you, but it seems to me as soon as the going gets though, instead of trying to actually discipline a kid, we load them with pills to calm them down, pills to help them sleep, natural products, herbalised tea aromas, or we stick them with 3 psycho-educators.
So when they grow up and you tell them no, they'll flip you off, because they never learned to reflect on the possibility of the world turning the way they want.

That's my take on it, anyway. Probably not entirely that either, but the factors of "the problem of today" are many, multuplie and enter in way too many variables to identify. I believe lack of respect to be a consequence of the state of things, not a cause per say.

Funny you should mention tantrums. Growing up, seeing that kind of behavior was rare.  In the last two years, I have noticed tantrums being more common in children.  Just one walk past the toy isle in any store on the weekend is enough to prove that point.  What's more, I have witnessed some adult tantrums..."adult" as in individuals over the age of 17, up to early 20's - still living at home, too insecure to work a job, throwing tantrums over things like a parent not paying for a new cell phone.  This is an even greater shocker to me than the child tantrums - which I mentioned are becoming all too common.  And you're right, these people are labeled as bi-polar or given some other "official" excuse for poor behavior, that's many times the direct result of poor parenting and enabling.  Of course that behavior carries over into the dating world. me me me