I'm a 31 year old guy, frustrated with being judged for only wanting to date younger women.

[ardour]

NM

 

[CenotaphGirl]

'Tis very unfortunate but it's something of a double standard (Not that I personally have that much of an issue with it, there are double standards everywhere). The conversation is always centered on women and the concept of purity but very rarely is it looked at from the other lens which is difficult given that women in current modern society are primarily the ones who decide whether or not men are given relationships, sex, etc.
Means that a guy who has had a lifelong dry spell is going to find it increasingly difficult for ANYTHING to happen as more and more of the dating pool looks at him and thinks "Well... He seems okay, but why so long?"

Not much that can be done about it unless society wants to change it but to keep throwing yourself out there and hopefully eventually something sticks.


I think this is certainly part of it, all of my girlfriends have wanted to know if I was the best girlfriend they'd ever had, the best this, the best that.
I also think it's almost like... A vetting process too though, if you've had past relationships before/been intimate with other women, then that means that SOMEONE ELSE has thought yeah, this guy is worth my time which means you can let down the defences a little bit.

While it is much easier for women in dating in terms of options, the problem for them ultimately comes down to quality control. They have so many options to choose from, that they need to be careful about who they choose, so who better to trust than the opinion of another woman?


To be honest, it's immensely frustrating. But, it's always important to take a step back and remember that "God dating is so hard for men", there are certainly difficult aspects for women too. Not the SAME issues mind you, and it's very hard for the otherside to see that perspective when they've never really had to experience before, but just knowing that it's not all picture perfect on the otherside too and you just gotta play with the hand you've been dealt, you know?

Omg who are you!?!?! I like you! This is the most interesting thing I have read all morning, yes there are sides men just cant understand and sides women cant. Like I remember being in high school, the girl people used to ask out for a joke, not being anything, not meaning anything to anyone, asking a guy out... who *******... humiliated me instead of just saying no, and I thought wow, I have seen both sides, I know both sides probably why I side with 80% of incel arguments.... however... the deeper my rabbit hole went into the struggles of men in the dating world I accepted, men have it harder, simples.

NM

I saw this lool cheeky man! Honestly I have to agree... I do find a tiny bit of delight when the ******* jerk who rejected me in school days tries to reach out now... I have done horrible things to him actually... lol buttt thats a story for a different day.

 

[Ignis]

Omg who are you!?!?! I like you!

Thanks I like you as well. I am just a guy who comes through once every... What, 4 years or so? Posts some wisdom and then vanishes again.

the girl people used to ask out for a joke, not being anything, not meaning anything to anyone, asking a guy out... who *******... humiliated me instead of just saying no

I mean glow ups are a thing, there were so many girls I knew when I was in high school that were... Okay, average, even below average and then after high school they've turned into total bombshells that it's almost unbelievable. School is such a silly thing in terms of relationships, your brain is still tiny and dumb and you think you know stuff when you actually don't -- it's not until many years later when you look back and realise "Damn, I really wish I hadn't teased Sally because she's like the most gorgeous girl ever omg I wish I could date her" type of deal.

Still, their loss.

the deeper my rabbit hole went into the struggles of men in the dating world I accepted, men have it harder, simples.

An unfortunate truth that I think a lot of people are starting to realise, which I'm glad about. In terms of dating, there is almost no argument that men have it way harder. Women can't fathom the concept of going on a dating app, swiping for a week on literally every woman and getting no matches (And I do mean, quite literally, every single woman), not getting a second date because you were 'not funny/interesting enough' 'too creepy' 'not tall enough' 'doesn't make enough money' etc, etc.
Getting a woman to notice you is so difficult because EVERY guy is trying to get women to notice them. EVERY guy is trying to be funny, dress well, take care of themselves. What separates you from someone else? It's almost like applying for jobs. You are the Fisherman (Fisher...women?) we are the fish.

It's a giant mountain to climb and to be honest it's really hard to deal with sometimes because the rate of success for men on average is very low and is part of the reason I think that incel culture is becoming more and more common. It's getting more and more difficult to date women because expectations over the years are changing -- from what we expect in a work environment (Which is primarily the area men dominated and in the past was their biggest selling point, women didn't work nearly as much and as long as you were a breadwinner, you were in a pretty good position) to what we expect in a dating environment (You must be this tall to ride, have X amount of income, X level of education, X level of fitness, dress sense, etc.) a lot of those things 20 years ago weren't nearly as big of a deal as they are now.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Thanks I like you as well. I am just a guy who comes through once every... What, 4 years or so? Posts some wisdom and then vanishes again.


I mean glow ups are a thing, there were so many girls I knew when I was in high school that were... Okay, average, even below average and then after high school they've turned into total bombshells that it's almost unbelievable. School is such a silly thing in terms of relationships, your brain is still tiny and dumb and you think you know stuff when you actually don't -- it's not until many years later when you look back and realise "Damn, I really wish I hadn't teased Sally because she's like the most gorgeous girl ever omg I wish I could date her" type of deal.

Still, their loss.


An unfortunate truth that I think a lot of people are starting to realise, which I'm glad about. In terms of dating, there is almost no argument that men have it way harder. Women can't fathom the concept of going on a dating app, swiping for a week on literally every woman and getting no matches (And I do mean, quite literally, every single woman), not getting a second date because you were 'not funny/interesting enough' 'too creepy' 'not tall enough' 'doesn't make enough money' etc, etc.
Getting a woman to notice you is so difficult because EVERY guy is trying to get women to notice them. EVERY guy is trying to be funny, dress well, take care of themselves. What separates you from someone else? It's almost like applying for jobs. You are the Fisherman (Fisher...women?) we are the fish.

It's a giant mountain to climb and to be honest it's really hard to deal with sometimes because the rate of success for men on average is very low and is part of the reason I think that incel culture is becoming more and more common. It's getting more and more difficult to date women because expectations over the years are changing -- from what we expect in a work environment (Which is primarily the area men dominated and in the past was their biggest selling point, women didn't work nearly as much and as long as you were a breadwinner, you were in a pretty good position) to what we expect in a dating environment (You must be this tall to ride, have X amount of income, X level of education, X level of fitness, dress sense, etc.) a lot of those things 20 years ago weren't nearly as big of a deal as they are now.

Ahh Well welcome back !!

Yes I am queen of the glow up! Hard to believe honestly, and it's funny I look back on myself and think... was I really that bad? I wasn't Beyonce but I wasn't as bad as the boys made me feel back then thats for sure.

Seriously, I am happy mens struggles are being highlighted but I think it's being highlighted in away that makes men have zero accountability, but I wont highjack.


Back to the judgement. why do men care if people do not want them to date younger women?

 

[Ignis]

Yes I am queen of the glow up! Hard to believe honestly, and it's funny I look back on myself and think... was I really that bad? I wasn't Beyonce but I wasn't as bad as the boys made me feel back then thats for sure.

To be honest, probably not. You likely take care of yourself now in a way that you didn't back then, or you dress different, wear your hair different. You've taken steps that if you'd have done back in school would likely have a similar effect. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say after all.

Seriously, I am happy mens struggles are being highlighted but I think it's being highlighted in away that makes men have zero accountability, but I wont highjack.

It happens on both sides, no one wants to take accountability, that's just human nature. If we have the ability to deflect the blame onto someone else, we will very willingly do so a lot of the time (Generally speaking of course) it takes a HUGE amount of courage to take accountability and responsibility for something and to admit 'Well, maybe SOMETHING I'm doing is the problem.'

why do men care if people do not want them to date younger women?

Perception is very important for any humans, but in the dating world perception is VERY important for men given that women are the ones who choose whether or not they are dateable or not.
I think there are a couple of potential points here.

1. Men have more difficulty in dating, them having a wider dating pool (Such as dating younger women) increases the chances of them finding someone who will actually date them (And younger women also tend to have lower expectations in terms of money or status which is still a man's primary selling point, though less so in todays society)
2. As stated before, men are genetically wired to want to date younger women by default. The younger a woman is, the more likely she is to be a fertile mate for them. Now we're past that point where genetics are the driving force behind everything we do (Not of all us unfortunately, but most men)
3. I think this is potentially going to be a bit controversial to say, but I think there's actually bit of a societal taboo on men dating older women. It's pretty normal for a 30 year old guy to date a 25 year old girl. A 40 year old guy to date a 32 year old girl, no one is going to bat too much of an eye at that.
The OPPOSITE however? That's quite an anomaly. A 25 year old guy dating a 30 year old woman? Even as I type this out I'm trying not to find it a bit strange, it feels like the roles should be reversed. So I suppose it's a societal norm for the male to be older.
4. Women develop before men, tend to emotionally mature before men do. Compare a 22 year old girl to a 22 year old guy, that 22 year old guy is acting like he's 15 still (Generalisation), that 22 year old girl is more likely to have an emotional connection with someone who is closer to her mental age (Which is more likely to be an older guy)

 

[CenotaphGirl]

To be honest, probably not. You likely take care of yourself now in a way that you didn't back then, or you dress different, wear your hair different. You've taken steps that if you'd have done back in school would likely have a similar effect. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say after all.


It happens on both sides, no one wants to take accountability, that's just human nature. If we have the ability to deflect the blame onto someone else, we will very willingly do so a lot of the time (Generally speaking of course) it takes a HUGE amount of courage to take accountability and responsibility for something and to admit 'Well, maybe SOMETHING I'm doing is the problem.'


Perception is very important for any humans, but in the dating world perception is VERY important for men given that women are the ones who choose whether or not they are dateable or not.
I think there are a couple of potential points here.

1. Men have more difficulty in dating, them having a wider dating pool (Such as dating younger women) increases the chances of them finding someone who will actually date them (And younger women also tend to have lower expectations in terms of money or status which is still a man's primary selling point, though less so in todays society)
2. As stated before, men are genetically wired to want to date younger women by default. The younger a woman is, the more likely she is to be a fertile mate for them. Now we're past that point where genetics are the driving force behind everything we do (Not of all us unfortunately, but most men)
3. I think this is potentially going to be a bit controversial to say, but I think there's actually bit of a societal taboo on men dating older women. It's pretty normal for a 30 year old guy to date a 25 year old girl. A 40 year old guy to date a 32 year old girl, no one is going to bat too much of an eye at that.
The OPPOSITE however? That's quite an anomaly. A 25 year old guy dating a 30 year old woman? Even as I type this out I'm trying not to find it a bit strange, it feels like the roles should be reversed. So I suppose it's a societal norm for the male to be older.
4. Women develop before men, tend to emotionally mature before men do. Compare a 22 year old girl to a 22 year old guy, that 22 year old guy is acting like he's 15 still (Generalisation), that 22 year old girl is more likely to have an emotional connection with someone who is closer to her mental age (Which is more likely to be an older guy)

Yeah I think it's a societal issue, if I try to hold myself accountable for things on here, all I get is "evil this or immature that" and it's like yeps I agree hence why I am calling it out instead of dismissing it and blaming men. Which I think is mature

My thing is, people do not like the type of men I like at all... they think its wrong for me to like them, blah blah but at some point its like... when do you stop caring... sometimes I think some of these men just wished someone cared about who they wanna be with lol It's like they want women to think, "ahhh man... wish I got with him, now I really regret it, guess this is my karma for only sleeping with chad"... its like... would that wet your cereal guys? Is that the honest truth of the matter, you just want someone to regret the pain of rejection they put you through? Questions questions... questions...

 

[Ignis]

My thing is, people do not like the type of men I like at all... they think its wrong for me to like them, blah blah but at some point its like... when do you stop caring...

I don't think this is a men specific thing, I think you see it that way because of your attraction to the opposite gender. I would argue exactly the same thing of women, more than likely because of what I'm attracted to.
Reality is that it's likely a human thing I think.

Who you like is who you like, but ultimately we all care in some capacity about what others see or think of us, it's very hard not to.

ahhh man... wish I got with him, now I really regret it, guess this is my karma for only sleeping with chad"... its like... would that wet your cereal guys? Is that the honest truth of the matter, you just want someone to regret the pain of rejection they put you through? Questions questions... questions...

It would actually make quite a lot of people happy, yeah. In the same way that it would bring you some sense of joy I'm sure if you were in a relationship with someone and they broke up with you... You've moved on and they're still pining after you, of course there's gonna be some part of you that's like 'Hah, that's karma for you for breaking up with me.'
It would be karma for them in some capacity in that... The dating game is in womens favour, it didn't work out for them so now they understand a little bit of how I feel kinda vibes I think and it's part of why I think black pill is starting to gain traction at the moment is because men are seeing some of the struggles that women are having and almost venomously saying HAH, DOESN'T FEEL SO GREAT WHEN EVERYTHING ISN'T EASY FOR YOU IS IT? THIS IS WHY YOU'RE GOING TO STRUGGLE TO FIND A MAN!

Which is the wrong way to approach it, but society is unlikely to change the rules any time soon so you can either play by the rules and do the best you can, or you can throw your hands up and blame the other gender and say 'Well they're the problem' and throw a tantrum.
It's probably not going to give you what you REALLY want deep down, which is a connection with that same woman you're throwing shade at, but you figure you're not gonna get it anyway so I might as well just watch the world burn.

 

[ardour]

But you said...

So I'm asking is that ^^^^ a good reason to judge them?

Most of the time it would just be "30/40 something virgin - eww - what?? Serial killer vibes!" Without the endorsement of previous partners we're in the 'dangerous unknown' category.

 

[Unsigned]

If they are of legal age, predation isn't a crime. It is still predation.

Predation, huh?
Tell that to all the 20 y/o girls on Seeking who want 5 franklins just to meet a guy for lunch.
Or better yet, the ones who want "virtual only" relationships.
Now that's predation.

Honestly I don't know why any guy would agree to those things, but they're out there and the girls find them.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

Date AI lol...i "generated" this one using the text 'short haired beauty with green eyes' and let me tell you:

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Predation, huh?
Tell that to all the 20 y/o girls on Seeking who want 5 franklins just to meet a guy for lunch.
Or better yet, the ones who want "virtual only" relationships.
Now that's predation.

Honestly I don't know why any guy would agree to those things, but they're out there and the girls find them.

my sister charged 1,000 to go to a meal with a guy so I was dying laughing at this

Date AI lol...i "generated" this one using the text 'short haired beauty with green eyes' and let me tell you:

I wanna be an AI so badly, dont want emotions dealing with these men

 

[ardour]

'Tis very unfortunate but it's something of a double standard (Not that I personally have that much of an issue with it, there are double standards everywhere). The conversation is always centered on women and the concept of purity but very rarely is it looked at from the other lens which is difficult given that women in current modern society are primarily the ones who decide whether or not men are given relationships, sex, etc.
Means that a guy who has had a lifelong dry spell is going to find it increasingly difficult for ANYTHING to happen as more and more of the dating pool looks at him and thinks "Well... He seems okay, but why so long?"

I dread the idea of sitting across a table from a judgy 30 or 40 something woman who's been in several serious relationships, trying to explain why I've had none, assuaging her fears that I'm the next Unabomber/mass shooter. Who needs that.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I dread the idea of sitting across a table from a judgy 30 or 40 something woman who's been in several serious relationships, trying to explain why I've had none, assuaging her fears that I'm the next Unabomber/mass shooter. Who needs that.

The way you described that omg... lol Ardour, please write a book I would literally pay you to write one, you killed me

 

[Butterfly 2]

I dread the idea of sitting across a table from a judgy 30 or 40 something woman who's been in several serious relationships, trying to explain why I've had none, assuaging her fears that I'm the next Unabomber/mass shooter. Who needs that.

I've read several of your posts and I'm just curious why you feel women would judge you this way. Have they actually reacted to you this way?

As far as age, you don't need anyone's permission to date somebody who's in their twenties. My aunt was married to a man that was a couple of years older and it was a disaster because he was an abusive alcoholic. She then married a widower who was something like 25 or 30 years older than she was and they had a very happy marriage.

I've also been wondering why you feel you would need to tell them you had never slept with a woman before. Of course there are important things you need to share with someone, like if you spent half your life in prison or your previous wives all passed on suspiciously, or you have five children, etc. But isn't there just a generic way of saying you don't have a huge dating history and let it go at that? If she questions you further just let her know that things just never worked out well and if she asks more questions, well, she just asks too many questions.

 

[Unsigned]

I've read several of your posts and I'm just curious why you feel women would judge you this way. Have they actually reacted to you this way?

Speaking only for myself, that's a big fat yes.
Apologies for sounding like a broken record, but as I have stated here before (probably too many times), I have only ever done P4P.
But I have had many regulars with whom I became close (as much as that can happen in the P4P world) and a few "sugar babies" who I saw for long periods of time. I have told a few that I never had a girlfriend or even a free date.
- One girl I was seeing mentioned that she "wanted to please me" and I told her in earnest that no one had ever said that to me before. Her reaction? "A woman has never wanted to please you???!!!" with weird look of disbelief on her face. Like I was a leper or something.
- I told my most recent SB this past summer that I never had a girlfriend and no female has ever called me to come over because she simply wanted my company. Her reaction? "I don't believe you. I think you are lying".

I have many other examples but I don't want to be redundant. But yes, females have absolutely judged me on this.

 

[ardour]

I've read several of your posts and I'm just curious why you feel women would judge you this way. Have they actually reacted to you this way?

As far as age, you don't need anyone's permission to date somebody who's in their twenties. My aunt was married to a man that was a couple of years older and it was a disaster because he was an abusive alcoholic. She then married a widower who was something like 25 or 30 years older than she was and they had a very happy marriage.

I've also been wondering why you feel you would need to tell them you had never slept with a woman before. Of course there are important things you need to share with someone, like if you spent half your life in prison or your previous wives all passed on suspiciously, or you have five children, etc. But isn't there just a generic way of saying you don't have a huge dating history and let it go at that? If she questions you further just let her know that things just never worked out well and if she asks more questions, well, she just asks too many questions.

I wouldn't just volunteer that information, particularly not about being a virgin, but relationship history seems to be a common topic that gets brought up. People talk about exes. I overhear awkward first Tinder/OLD dates all the time.

Compare it to buying an expensive no-name brand item off of amazon with zero user reviews, except the consequences of a poor decision affect your entire life. At my age.... you know what the judgements are going to be. The concept of social proof is real. I don't blame women for this, they have to think of their personal safety, but for a man to be seen as a potentially dangerous 'unknown' is disastrous. An average person would be thinking what is so wrong with him that he got this far in life without any experience.

Add the fact that I'd prefer someone significantly younger (doesn't matter if it's a 25+ adult), and some women would be thinking..."Oh, I see, you're a perv, a porn addict,... that's why you haven't tried these last few years." And I have nothing to say to that.

Assuming I could get even get dates, all these polite interrogations and silent judgements don't sound like a good time.

 

[Unsigned]

I don't blame women for this, they have to think of their personal safety, but for a man to be seen as a potentially dangerous 'unknown' is disastrous.

Again only speaking for myself, I don't think any of the females who reacted to me in this manner thought I was "dangerous".
IMO, they thought something much, much worse.
That I was "low status".
And they felt cheapened by being with someone they all of a sudden considered "low status".
I suppose I should just play act..but I can't, I'm not a "fake it till you make it" kind of guy.
It's not me and when serious questions arise I am truthful...to a very serious fault.

BTW, dangerous guys do fantastic with women:

 

[ardour]

Again only speaking for myself, I don't think any of the females who reacted to me in this manner thought I was "dangerous".
IMO, they thought something much, much worse.
That I was "low status".
And they felt cheapened by being with someone they all of a sudden considered "low status".

That too. But then there is an overlap in perception between "low status" and "deviant loner"

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

That too. But then there is an overlap in perception between "low status" and "deviant loner"

The difference between Crazy and Stupid is very damned important sometimes. This is one of those times. Crazy is a complex methodical organization of intricate detail work. Stupid, is well, the January 6th insurrection.

 

[Butterfly 2]

This is all so interesting. 50 years ago you would have all been considered to be a real catch. Bachelor's who were smart enough and fast enough to avoid getting trapped / caught.

Women were the ones judged back then. If you were 20 years old and didn't have a husband or a boyfriend, you're an old maid and nobody wants you.