IQ and loneliness

[Aaron-Agassi]

bookbinder, there are Axiological reasons from intrinsic motivation, why many intelligent people cannot or will not simply learn and mimic socially successful behavior, often so baffling and repugnant. First of all, it can be such a joyless chore given any iota of autonomy and self esteem, and secondly, social success often simply does not fulfill such needs as to alleviate loneliness. Indeed, the skills for friendship are often antithetical to those for popularity. Know more at: http://www.FoolQuest.com/alien.htm

I think it's a bit self-serving. It's one thing to say that intelligent people see more of the tragedy in the world; people who are intelligent generally tend to be more observant and critical thinkers, so that makes sense. Because this is the case, intellectuals may be more unhappy than people who are less intelligent, but that is due to their unhappiness with the state of things rather than unhappiness about their own lives.

As far as unhappiness as a symptom of an intellectual's own life, I believe that, whatever social stigmation aside, it's not far from the level of the average person. If a person is highly ntelligent, would it not follow that they'd be smart enough to figure out how to succeed? At least, an intelligent person should at least be able to duplicate the actions of others so as to function socially. At most, an intelligent person would recongize the importance of confidence and seek to build it within themselves. There are plenty of smart people who make something of themselves in this world- in fact, I would argue that more smart people are successful than stupid folks are. I would also argue, that while the article says that only a "few [intellectuals] reach the top of the business or social ladder", there are many many more less smart individuals that don't come close either.

As far as the prison phenomenon the article talks about, that may simply be a case of intellectual arrogance. If I think I'm smarter than most people, chances are I'll try to put one over on them. Again, however, the question comes up- if I'm so smart, how come I didn't forsee this or forsee that? Why was I caught, if I am supposedly intellectualy superior.

So the article, while parts of it may be grounded in truth, seems to me to be more a self-aggrandizement of intellectuals. Chuck Klosterman talks in his book Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs, how people think being depressed is equivalent to being intelligent, and it seems to me that he may have a point. Regardless though, being smart and being depressed are two seperate things. Being smart is a trait. Being depressed is an emotional state. They probably go hand in hand no more so than being stupid and being depressed do.

 

[floffyschneeman]

a huge part of my insecurities is the fear of being too dumb, that's why I don't socialize much, I dislike competition, I have a hard time believing I could do things, I mostly hide on my corner, and those reasons are the stuff that make me lonely. So I don't know.

 

[Polar]

Intelligence is such a vague word and IQ is definitely not a very good way of measuring the entirety of it, that's for sure.

Certain types of intelligence are very common in introverted and eccentric personalities. Personalities who are more prone to falling to lonely situations.

But I don't think social awkwardness is the only factor why "intelligent people" can feel left out. While Einstein might very well have been a bit "off". He was already revered for his insights by many of his contemporaries. I highly doubt he felt unaccepted or had trouble mixing in with like-minded people. Personally I think everyone experiences loneliness regularly. Intelligent people simply sooner start overanalysing their situation and get haunted by their own thoughts. You know, having more difficulty letting things go, going over the same thoughts over and over again. It's not so illogical to assume that people who experience more activity in their cognitive brain parts , are also more likely to experience higher activity in parts of the brain which handle emotions.

 

[thalassa]

Einstein would have been my best friend!

 

[IgnoredOne]

Being an outlier on intelligence, on either side of the spectrum, can cause one to be less capable of associating with the majority.

 

[Sprint]

Being an outlier on intelligence, on either side of the spectrum, can cause one to be less capable of associating with the majority.

& this is simply the intellectual equivalent of all things both good & bad in society...

Anytime someone falls out of the "norm" range concerning anything... it creates an issue in the ability of that person to be able to associate with the majority.

but what a dull world it would be if we were all the same :/

 

[floffyschneeman]

Intelligence might be one factor to loneliness, but it doesn't mean the two necessarily follows each other. Each person is either born intelligent or can achieve higher intelligence also depending on their surrounding/upbringing. Everyone is susceptible to loneliness and depression. Some have it in their genes then triggered by their environment, some brought about by traumatic experiences, some have it as a phase in their lives and some live with it for the rest of their lives, loneliness is so random. Some can feel lonely because of being different, some can also feel lonely cos of being mediocre.


Saying that intelligent people are more inclined to feeling lonely because of their intelligence is like saying good-looking people are more inclined to being happy cos they are good-looking.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

Saying that intelligent people are more inclined to feeling lonely because of their intelligence is like saying good-looking people are more inclined to being happy cos they are good-looking.

But...they are, surely? I certainly know if I get a compliment it makes me feel much better about myself.

People always say I think about things far too much. My mind is always thinking about things, analysing them in detail.

This is good when I'm working, but not when I start thinking about things that displease me or emotional matters. I quickly escalate a small problem into a breakdown of where things are going wrong and then I start feeling depressed about it because I can't rectify it easily.

I think if you're not so smart (or smart but ignorant), you tend not to reflect on the minor details of life.

I know many guys who aren't bright, but are extremely confident because they just don't even think about embarrassing themselves or the potential consequences of their actions. The result is they are much happier than many people that do think about that stuff, ironically enough.

Plus I constantly feel like I must do something worthwhile with my life. It's why I'm pushing myself to do a difficult degree. I'm not sure some other people feel that same self-drive (and self-pressure).

 

[floffyschneeman]

But...they are, surely? I certainly know if I get a compliment it makes me feel much better about myself.

People always say I think about things far too much. My mind is always thinking about things, analysing them in detail.

This is good when I'm working, but not when I start thinking about things that displease me or emotional matters. I quickly escalate a small problem into a breakdown of where things are going wrong and then I start feeling depressed about it because I can't rectify it easily.

I think if you're not so smart (or smart but ignorant), you tend not to reflect on the minor details of life.

I know many guys who aren't bright, but are extremely confident because they just don't even think about embarrassing themselves or the potential consequences of their actions. The result is they are much happier than many people that do think about that stuff, ironically enough.

Plus I constantly feel like I must do something worthwhile with my life. It's why I'm pushing myself to do a difficult degree. I'm not sure some other people feel that same self-drive (and self-pressure).

but you only base it on your idea of intelligence. Contemplating about one's life or self, I think, is a human characteristics. Everyone gets in a phase where they question a lot of things in their lives and usually lead them to feeling lonely. Even your friends who you think are not that bright, you never know what they go through in their lives too. We see others and say they look so happy and normal and confident, they don't think of things like this and that, but we can only say that cos we're not in their position, we're not living their lives. I guess the significant difference with people, is that some know how to hide their loneliness better than others. Also, even an illiterate person would ponder about himself and his life and he could also feel lonely and depressed. I do think everyone has their own intelligence, and apart from that everyone gets lonely and depressed as well. So, I don't think the two are related.

Also, over thinking does not equate to being intelligent. But over thinking could mean you are too conscious with things or yourself. Some brilliant people in history have accepted the fact that no matter how you think or analyze, some things can't be grasp by human understanding, yet or never.

Loneliness is a human emotion, everyone could feel it at least once in their lives.

 

[Destructotron]

I personally think that's absolutely ridiculous. Saying that IQ and loneliness go together is no different than saying that I'm lonely because other people don't match my intellectual faculties - they're too dumb for me.

I used to think like that but then I realized that it's just something to make me feel better about myself : ''The reason I'm alone isn't because there's something wrong with me, it's because I'm too intelligent for other people.''

Lonely people who bring this up - all they're doing is just blaming others for their own shortcomings.

 

[Equinox]

Aha! It all makes perfect sense now. I'm just too damn smart for my own good. Yup, I'll go with that, for now.

 

[Sprint]

Loneliness results from the inability to be able to successfully integrate & camaraderie with your peers.

Intelligence is just 1 of the many factors that can affect this.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

Okay, assuming the second one was towards my post too, I will answer both

Also, over thinking does not equate to being intelligent. But over thinking could mean you are too conscious with things or yourself. Some brilliant people in history have accepted the fact that no matter how you think or analyze, some things can't be grasp by human understanding, yet or never.

Loneliness is a human emotion, everyone could feel it at least once in their lives.

Floffy, you're right of course. All human beings feel emotions regardless of intelligence. You're also right that over thinking does not equal intelligence.

However, without blowing my own horn, I am an intelligent person. The work I do is intellectually tough, I take pride in being able to do pretty hard stuff with my mind.

To this extent, I can't help but wonder if, compared to those people I mentioned, when I do over-think, I do it in greater detail. See my response below to Destructotron for a less all-over-the-place explanation (hopefully ).

I personally think that's absolutely ridiculous. Saying that IQ and loneliness go together is no different than saying that I'm lonely because other people don't match my intellectual faculties - they're too dumb for me.

I used to think like that but then I realized that it's just something to make me feel better about myself : ''The reason I'm alone isn't because there's something wrong with me, it's because I'm too intelligent for other people.''

Lonely people who bring this up - all they're doing is just blaming others for their own shortcomings.

First, I wasn't trying to put my "less bright" acquaintances down if it sounded that way.

Second, your first paragraph is a straw man assessment. The example is totally different to what was being discussed. Where did I say other people are too dumb for me, or even anything remotely like that? I didn't, and it skewers a completely different perspective I don't hold.

The fact is, some of the people I know simply aren't as academic as me and have simpler interests in life. This does not make them lesser people in any way, and perhaps my description of "less bright" was a poor one. It's extremely difficult to quantify what I mean without it sounding like elitism or dickishness.

Intelligence is very hard to quantify (even with IQ tests), someone with a low IQ can still hold skills, offer astute insight into things and show wisdom beyond those regarded by a piece of paper as "smart". So I don't mean to class anyone like that.

Instead, let me put it like this. I know guys whose idea of ultimate happiness is getting their hands on *Insert latest videogame here*, getting drunk, having sex with a girl and then going to bed.

That is the entire summary of their life-wide aspirations and ideals. They don't really think about politics, the future, the way things are run or what job options they have. They don't worry about not performing the best they can, because they don't feel they need to. Their job is simply a means to provide money for the above activities.

Said people are simply fully content doing that stuff, day after day. In a way, I'm similar. I share some aspirations with these people. However, additionally I worry a lot more about my future career, my degree, my relationships with other people.

"How do you know this?" is the next question, of course. And the simple fact is that I talk to these people and they don't even consider half of the stuff I do sometimes. You'll ask about their career and they'll say "I never really thought of it actually." To me, that's unthinkable, it's something I worry about all the time.

They are often much more laid back about matters for this reason. Personality also comes into it of course, but I just think that the more your mind is open to different things (which usually comes with intelligence), the more potential you have to think about those things in a positive or negative light.

Look at the intelligent businessmen that kill themselves when they screw up a deal. They pressure themselves to do well, and from the outside it seems ridiculous - they have great families, more money than many other people. Why do they do it?

To them, with that much racing through their minds, they feel they have disgraced themselves. They are in a different mental state to those who are content simply with their copy of MW3 on the Xbox or something, often for the worse.

For the record, I've never felt I'm "too intelligent" for anyone. That's ********. There are people "smarter" than me and people I am "smarter" than, but that is largely irrelevant.

My argument is that these things I consider that some other people don't...it's easy to get depressed over them. Then it's easy to beat yourself up over them. Then it becomes a cycle, and you become lonely.

To completely rule intelligence out of being a catalyst for loneliness by simplifying it down to arrogance or elitism is foolhardy though. Hell, I got bullied for being smart at school...but that's another story, and I'll leave it there

 

[Lawrens]

I'm way too dumb to solve my problems, so probably why I'm lonely.

I think if a living being is intelligent enough to be well aware and conscious of themselves and/or their surrounding, there's a chance they could suffer from loneliness, but then, what do I know.

Animals gets lonely, so does kids, people that isn't exactly mature or smart could get lonely, etc.

 

[Bones]

There could be a correlation between IQ and loneliness, but NOT cause and effect.

 

[Ak5]

People who are intelligent usually over-think things. That is where intelligence messes us up when it comes to social interactions.

 

[Felix]

I can't picture a stupid loner for some reason...

 

[floffyschneeman]

I just wonder how people know they are more intellectual than most people, and I wonder even greatly how they can assume others don't think of things like they do. You'd only be able to do that if you can read what everyone is thinking. My point is, we all suffer from loneliness at least one point in our lives. Some are better at hiding it, or in away, better at coping, some aren't and that results to them isolating themselves, and thus loneliness. I know for one, the kids I saw at school, some of them were very normal, very happy, and then later on, I hear that they have committed suicide. You really can't say anything about a person without getting to know them personally, and even if you do get to know them, you're still not sure, who they are and the things they struggle with. This I know for sure, that people have the ability to surprise us in more ways than one, other people we think are mediocre could be the most brilliant person of their time, and other people we think our so happy, could be the loneliest person we know. To say, that I am lonely because I am intellectual, and I wonder if I were like the ''normal(mediocre) people'' would I be happier?, I find it a bit of an arrogant statement brought about by bitterness, perhaps. Don't diss down a person because they are doing better than you are in certain aspects of life. No matter how intellectual or hard what you are doing, some people are doing much much mentally challenging things, they could be happy people, they could be loners or depressed. Life is random, so as people. But the world would be lighter if we don't make levels for ourselves, who is better and who is not.

---

To this extent, I can't help but wonder if, compared to those people I mentioned, when I do over-think, I do it in greater detail. See my response below to Destructotron for a less all-over-the-place explanation (hopefully ).

actually, I don't have any problem with you saying you are intelligent. Maybe for you your intelligence did make you feel lonely. What caught my attention is you assuming things about people. The only way you could feel that your intelligence has resulted to you being lonely, is that you think others are not that intelligent, so they are happier. Firstly, you don't know what they are going through with their lives, so I don't think they matter too much in comparison to your life. Embrace your intelligence as a gift and use it to share to other people to make use of it. ''with great power comes great responsibility'' right? and ''knowledge is power'' (hehe) intelligence is a good thing, I can't see why it causes people loneliness. If embraced with a humble heart, intelligence can be more than a self isolation cell, rather than a light for everyone. and lol, I sound so creepy, but I am sure you get my point.

 

[IgnoredOne]

...(hehe) intelligence is a good thing, I can't see why it causes people loneliness. If embraced with a humble heart, intelligence can be more than a self isolation cell, rather than a light for everyone. and lol, I sound so creepy, but I am sure you get my point.

Except that it, frankly, does. It might be partly on the cause of the operator, but being vastly different, on the outliers of intelligence at either the top or the low spectrum will make you have fewer people that you can associate with well.

Consider even language, for example - while I can certainly change the way I speak, its far more comfortable for me to talk in a way where I feel I accurately express my thoughts even if they have to use more complicated parsing and phrasing. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, they feel that I use 'big words'.

Its even worse conceptually at times, when the things that I care about may not mean a lot to others; talking about slight improvements to cognition vastly fascinates me, as does what exactly makes the brain tick. Again, not something that I can talk to a lot of other people about and have it matter that much. Presenting articles and studies are even worse, and actively bore most people.

On the other hand, if you talk about alcohol and drugs, you'll have a far more common topic than I do. I intellectually realize this, and lampoon it

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

...(hehe) intelligence is a good thing, I can't see why it causes people loneliness. If embraced with a humble heart, intelligence can be more than a self isolation cell, rather than a light for everyone. and lol, I sound so creepy, but I am sure you get my point.

Except that it, frankly, does. It might be partly on the cause of the operator, but being vastly different, on the outliers of intelligence at either the top or the low spectrum will make you have fewer people that you can associate with well.

Consider even language, for example - while I can certainly change the way I speak, its far more comfortable for me to talk in a way where I feel I accurately express my thoughts even if they have to use more complicated parsing and phrasing. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, they feel that I use 'big words'.

Its even worse conceptually at times, when the things that I care about may not mean a lot to others; talking about slight improvements to cognition vastly fascinates me, as does what exactly makes the brain tick. Again, not something that I can talk to a lot of other people about and have it matter that much. Presenting articles and studies are even worse, and actively bore most people.

On the other hand, if you talk about alcohol and drugs, you'll have a far more common topic than I do. I intellectually realize this, and lampoon it

This is all very true as well. Back in my mid-teens, all the other guys were talking about girls, beer, all that stuff.

My idea of a good conversation was discussing world politics, science or whatever I'd been reading up on at the time.

I got the piss taken out of me so much that I started adopting this kind of dumbed down alter-ego when talking to groups of other guys. I stopped using my full vocabulary because I was getting blank stares or jibes and started just rolling with whatever they were talking about, even if I didn't really have an interest in it.

It kind of worked. At times though, I remember even faking that I didn't know stuff that I did, just so people couldn't have a pop at me about it.

I've always been an advocate of being myself, and for the most part I have. I've just sometimes had to be "Myself-Lite"