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EveWasFramed

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Joined
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Georgia, US
I had to tell someone this today and it made me think of some of the threads/posts I've seen here in the years I've been coming here.
I have a young female friend at work. She's a decent girl and a good friend, but sometimes has the personality of an angry wet cat and is bitter due to past failed relationships.
Nearly every day, she visits my cubical and tells me how unfortunate she has been in the last couple of years when it comes to getting dates. For four months Ive listened to how crappy guys are because they don't return her interest or ask her out. Today, instead of nodding and making the appropriate noises, I asked her to come outside with me.
Feeling like a total ****, I told her that it wasn't them, it was HER. I said that common sense should tell her that it can't be everyone BUT her.
She's a very intelligent young lady, well educated. She's also a runner. I asked what she thought of people who'd either never won a marathon or never even finished one.
She said either they werent capable of it (physically, for whatever reason) or they werent trying hard enough - practicing, building stamina, etc.
I asked if runners could increase their chances by changing their lifestyle, behaviors, etc. She said if they were physically able to, of course.
By now she knew where this was heading. I told her, in the kindest way I could manage, that it was HER who was sabatoging herself. I told her what others had said about her and what I thought about her. I asked if she thought it was possible to change herself. She responded that she wasn't sure.
I said, well, it's you, not everyone else. Change or don't, it's still all on you.
I told her that I was sorry, but that I cared enough to tell her because I didn't want her to think that people were required to want to be around her and that not many would make a point to look past the surface at what lied beneath.
She didn't seem terribly upset and said she think about what I said.
Later in the day, she messaged me and thanked me for being honest with her. She said she knew she had issues but didn't know how to overcome them. I told her we'd talk more tomorrow if she wanted to eat lunch together.
I hope she comes by. Id hate to see her a decade or two from now in the same horrible mindset.
 
What a wise conversation to have with the young woman. When the student is ready, the teacher will come. It sounds like that is what happened today. Xxoo

-Teresa
 
You sound like a pretty smart lady EvewasFramed. You remind me of a friend of mine on here that has always been honest with me and in turn by being that has really helped me.
 
BeyondShy said:
You sound like a pretty smart lady EvewasFramed. You remind me of a friend of mine on here that has always been honest with me and in turn by being that has really helped me.

Aw, thanks for the compliment, BS :cool:

-Teresa
 
Obviously you see this advice as appropriate for some members on the forum. It could be argued that this is part of the Just World Fallacy. In trying to make someone aware of how they're own behaviours and attitudes contribute to their circumstances, you end up going too far and implying that it's entirely their responsibility for whatever has eventuated.

In the case of a colleague openly complaining day after day, it seems kind of appropriate. However, as general, all-purpose advice given to people who have experienced nothing but failure it's not neccessarily going to have the desired effect, and in some cases I think it can be dangerous, depending on the person and what they've been through. (Not for me, because I have some awareness of my inadequacies and I'm not even sure if I want to be in relationships.)
 
I wasn't offering any advice to anyone here, so not so obvious, eh?
It was an event that reminded me of post I've read here before.
You're reading a bit much into a story I chose to share.
 
ardour said:
In the case of a colleague openly complaining day after day, it seems kind of appropriate. However, as general, all-purpose advice given to people who have experienced nothing but failure, it's not neccessarily going to have the desired effect, and in some cases I think it can be dangerous, depending on the person and what they've been through....

That's a good point, ardour. Since Eve knows the young lady well, her conversation was a good call. Here, though, where many of us don't really know each other very well or even other members' real names unless you make a real effort to reach out, it's important to think before offering quick and easy solutions to someone who's in pain. I always listen to what Eve has to say though :)

-Teresa
 
EveWasFramed said:
I said, well, it's you, not everyone else. Change or don't, it's still all on you.
I told her that I was sorry, but that I cared enough to tell her because I didn't want her to think that people were required to want to be around her and that not many would make a point to look past the surface at what lied beneath.

These are two things that many people fail to realize. I hope it sticks with her, what you were telling her. I know I remember certain things you've told me about myself, and I would hope that I'm better off.
 
EveWasFramed said:
I wasn't offering any advice to anyone here, so not so obvious, eh?

Not once did I think you were offering advice to anyone in here. You told a pretty good story about a co-worker of yours and that was that. It seems like you really have to go back and double and triple check everything you post in here because it gets misinterpreted by someone.

I really hope that your friend thinks about what you said. As for anyone else in here that read this (including myself) the only thing you can take out of this is to think hey maybe I can see a little of myself right there.

SofiasMami said:
BeyondShy said:
You sound like a pretty smart lady EvewasFramed. You remind me of a friend of mine on here that has always been honest with me and in turn by being that has really helped me.

Aw, thanks for the compliment, BS :cool:

-Teresa

You know what? Forget it. You are not going to bait me into saying something. That is as far as I am going to go here.
 
Good story. If you notice that somebody continiously has the same problems with a wide majority of people they're meeting/interacting with, the chance is pretty high that the lowest common denominator in their story is no one but themselves. Mind the "pretty high".

But I think that whether they hold themselves responsible or at fault for the situation is actually irrelevant. They want the situation to change. And since the world or the ominous "society" does not really bend to the individual, they have to take charge or nothing is ever going to happen. Guess you can pick the game, but you can't change the rules.
 
Good on you, Eve, for stepping in and speaking the truth.


Doesn't matter if you know a person or not. One way might work, another way might work. You can't know, which is why different messages, all having the SAME MEANING is usually better, as you have no idea what the person needs to get it through their head. Doesn't matter is a person is successful or if a person has struggled a lot. If you do NOTHING, nothing will change. That's on you and only you to make that happen, no one else is going to do it for you.
People are different, people talk different, people go about things differently. Not one single way is better than the other, especially when the end result (or message) is exactly the same.

People need to realize that one person is NOT better than another person, we are ALL people, we all have **** that we're going through, we ALL react differently to certain situations, but that does NOT mean that someone should change who they are so another person will be more "comfortable." Take what you like and leave the rest....learn it, live it, love it.
 
EveWasFramed said:
I had to tell someone this today and it made me think of some of the threads/posts I've seen here in the years I've been coming here.
I have a young female friend at work. She's a decent girl and a good friend, but sometimes has the personality of an angry wet cat and is bitter due to past failed relationships.
Nearly every day, she visits my cubical and tells me how unfortunate she has been in the last couple of years when it comes to getting dates. For four months Ive listened to how crappy guys are because they don't return her interest or ask her out. Today, instead of nodding and making the appropriate noises, I asked her to come outside with me.
Feeling like a total ****, I told her that it wasn't them, it was HER. I said that common sense should tell her that it can't be everyone BUT her.
She's a very intelligent young lady, well educated. She's also a runner. I asked what she thought of people who'd either never won a marathon or never even finished one.
She said either they werent capable of it (physically, for whatever reason) or they werent trying hard enough - practicing, building stamina, etc.
I asked if runners could increase their chances by changing their lifestyle, behaviors, etc. She said if they were physically able to, of course.
By now she knew where this was heading. I told her, in the kindest way I could manage, that it was HER who was sabatoging herself. I told her what others had said about her and what I thought about her. I asked if she thought it was possible to change herself. She responded that she wasn't sure.
I said, well, it's you, not everyone else. Change or don't, it's still all on you.
I told her that I was sorry, but that I cared enough to tell her because I didn't want her to think that people were required to want to be around her and that not many would make a point to look past the surface at what lied beneath.
She didn't seem terribly upset and said she think about what I said.
Later in the day, she messaged me and thanked me for being honest with her. She said she knew she had issues but didn't know how to overcome them. I told her we'd talk more tomorrow if she wanted to eat lunch together.
I hope she comes by. Id hate to see her a decade or two from now in the same horrible mindset.

Sounds like you gave this woman some good advice.
I don't think that applies to everybody though.
 
Hmm. Some people do need a verbal glass of water to the face. Good for her if she goes on a better path after this. I do find, though, the "All YOUR fault" mantra comes across as a gleeful rush to heap scorn or disdain upon the venter. Best to just offer constructive solutions on how to change or what to do. Just my opinion, which you can take or leave ;).
 
reynard_muldrake said:
Hmm. Some people do need a verbal glass of water to the face. Good for her if she goes on a better path after this. I do find, though, the "All YOUR fault" mantra comes across as a gleeful rush to heap scorn or disdain upon the venter. Best to just offer constructive solutions on how to change or what to do. Just my opinion, which you can take or leave ;).

Im sorry, but I never implied "fault" anywhere at all in my post if you're responding to the original OP.
There was also no disdain or scorn heaped upon the venter. Gleeful? Not for me. It was quite painful to have to tell her what I did. I like her. I don't like hurting people I'm fond of. At lunchtime today, I did give her some (what I thought was) helpful advice and even some good resources I looked up for her to read (about acceptance and healing from the inside out).
If your response was in general, and not directly responding to what I did or said, feel free to disregard my reply.
 
EveWasFramed said:
reynard_muldrake said:
Hmm. Some people do need a verbal glass of water to the face. Good for her if she goes on a better path after this. I do find, though, the "All YOUR fault" mantra comes across as a gleeful rush to heap scorn or disdain upon the venter. Best to just offer constructive solutions on how to change or what to do. Just my opinion, which you can take or leave ;).

Im sorry, but I never implied "fault" anywhere at all in my post if you're responding to the original OP.
There was also no disdain or scorn heaped upon the venter. Gleeful? Not for me. It was quite painful to have to tell her what I did. I like her. I don't like hurting people I'm fond of. At lunchtime today, I did give her some (what I thought was) helpful advice and even some good resources I looked up for her to read (about acceptance and healing from the inside out).
If your response was in general, and not directly responding to what I did or said, feel free to disregard my reply.

It was meant generally, yes. I just see people in real life and in assorted online forums who jump at the chance to do what I described in my prior post. You (generally speaking) sort of... go on edge when you sense it happening after a while. But to get back on topic, it's great you gave her resources on self-healing and some possible tips. Do you think your coworker responded well to the advice and resources?
 
Well done, Eve. I hope she can make use of what you told her, and change her habits and thoughts.
 
reynard_muldrake said:
EveWasFramed said:
reynard_muldrake said:
Hmm. Some people do need a verbal glass of water to the face. Good for her if she goes on a better path after this. I do find, though, the "All YOUR fault" mantra comes across as a gleeful rush to heap scorn or disdain upon the venter. Best to just offer constructive solutions on how to change or what to do. Just my opinion, which you can take or leave ;).

Im sorry, but I never implied "fault" anywhere at all in my post if you're responding to the original OP.
There was also no disdain or scorn heaped upon the venter. Gleeful? Not for me. It was quite painful to have to tell her what I did. I like her. I don't like hurting people I'm fond of. At lunchtime today, I did give her some (what I thought was) helpful advice and even some good resources I looked up for her to read (about acceptance and healing from the inside out).
If your response was in general, and not directly responding to what I did or said, feel free to disregard my reply.

It was meant generally, yes. I just see people in real life and in assorted online forums who jump at the chance to do what I described in my prior post. You (generally speaking) sort of... go on edge when you sense it happening after a while. But to get back on topic, it's great you gave her resources on self-healing and some possible tips. Do you think your coworker responded well to the advice and resources?

She responded well and was sincere in her interest but only time will tell if her situation improves.
 

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