Lonely, Even When You Have Everything

[Demian]

Lonely Panda and Danielle, thanks for speaking up. I've never really told anyone about this, and its good to know other people experience this too...

I think what made me look for this message board was seeing a certain part of myself in my daughter. She's only a toddler, but I see her playful, gregarious personality and then I'll see her go sit by the window, put her little hands in her lap, and just concentrate in a peculiar kind of solitude. I write her little letters for when she's older to help guide her on her way, and if she does turn out to be like me, I want her to understand her loneliness in the way that I couldn't when I was younger. I think I've gotten to a point in my life where I'm starting to understand that a feeling that can sting is not necessarily "bad" or good," but perhaps just part of the landscape of your experiences. At times--- moments when you would think that I shouldn't--- I feel incredibly lonely, and perhaps that's something I should embrace. In a way, at those moments, I feel like I am closest to myself, if that makes any sense.

 

[Danielle]

Lonely Panda and Danielle, thanks for speaking up. I've never really told anyone about this, and its good to know other people experience this too...

I think what made me look for this message board was seeing a certain part of myself in my daughter. She's only a toddler, but I see her playful, gregarious personality and then I'll see her go sit by the window, put her little hands in her lap, and just concentrate in a peculiar kind of solitude. I write her little letters for when she's older to help guide her on her way, and if she does turn out to be like me, I want her to understand her loneliness in the way that I couldn't when I was younger. I think I've gotten to a point in my life where I'm starting to understand that a feeling that can sting is not necessarily "bad" or good," but perhaps just part of the landscape of your experiences. At times--- moments when you would think that I shouldn't--- I feel incredibly lonely, and perhaps that's something I should embrace. In a way, at those moments, I feel like I am closest to myself, if that makes any sense.

It makes perfect sense, and give me a new way to look at my feelings when they arise. Also, such a beautiful idea, writing your daughter little notes. She will love them when she is older. Such a sweet thing to do. If I am ever lucky enough to have a child, I think I may do the same.

 

[Demian]

Lonely Panda and Danielle, thanks for speaking up. I've never really told anyone about this, and its good to know other people experience this too...

I think what made me look for this message board was seeing a certain part of myself in my daughter. She's only a toddler, but I see her playful, gregarious personality and then I'll see her go sit by the window, put her little hands in her lap, and just concentrate in a peculiar kind of solitude. I write her little letters for when she's older to help guide her on her way, and if she does turn out to be like me, I want her to understand her loneliness in the way that I couldn't when I was younger. I think I've gotten to a point in my life where I'm starting to understand that a feeling that can sting is not necessarily "bad" or good," but perhaps just part of the landscape of your experiences. At times--- moments when you would think that I shouldn't--- I feel incredibly lonely, and perhaps that's something I should embrace. In a way, at those moments, I feel like I am closest to myself, if that makes any sense.

It makes perfect sense, and give me a new way to look at my feelings when they arise. Also, such a beautiful idea, writing your daughter little notes. She will love them when she is older. Such a sweet thing to do. If I am ever lucky enough to have a child, I think I may do the same.

Thanks! I've found that writing to my daughters is therapeutic in a way for me, too. I starting writing to my eldest the day she was born, when her mother and I were going through a lot of grief. She was 1 pound, and was likely going to die. We'd been waiting for her for so many lonely years, and I felt like I had a lifetime of things I needed to say to her, but was un sure whether I'd have a day or a week or a 50 years to say it.

I think that grief and immense fear changed me for the better, too. It made me understand how precious the things we often take for granted are.

 

[edamame721]

That's a wonderful thing that you're doing for your daughter. I think most people feel lonely at one time or another, because even those closest to you don't always understand or approve of you. I remember reading certain books that helped me as a lonely child because I was unable to verbalize what I was feeling to my family (it manifested in other ways but everyone was in denial) and I think those letters will be truly helpful.

 

[Despicable Me]

Well that's the thing, I don't know how to feel about that sense of "loneliness". It's not something I'm sure I wish would be gone, the same way that someone who has loved and lost would wish for those memories to be purged from their mind. I think a lot of people look at their loneliness and think "if only it could go away," the same way that an artist or a writer might look at misery and depression and think "if only it could go away." But in the same stroke, that misery and depression can be the inspiration that they never would have had otherwise.

Demian, I believe I know exactly what you mean.

I wouldn't say I'm completely fulfilled in the social department. I do not really have friends and some of my relationships are a bit broken, but I do have some family, a spouse, and kids myself. I have enough, and more importantly I can say that I do not feel lonely because I am lacking in that area. The loneliness comes from something deeper, a deeper part of myself.
Like you I also usually like to smile around others and laugh and just act like everything is perfect, even when it isn't.

Though, I won't say that the loneliness really 'stings' me anymore, exactly. I think I passed that point a long time ago. To keep your metaphor, now I stand outside at night and just watch the stars. It is beautiful. To me it is inspiration. In a way it is almost what I live for now.

The real sting seems to come from the disconnect. Between this world, who I am, and people around me. Reading your posts I'd bet you'll find this is true for you, as well. That sting is the feeling you get when you have to be someone who you really aren't. And while loneliness might accompany the sting, this is not necessarily how it has to work.

What happens if you truly are alone? Away from everyone else. To do something like go outside and enjoy the night air, far away from people, and soak in the beauty of the stars? Does it relax you and make you feel at peace, or does it sting?
I'd bet you feel at peace. Don't you? You already said that when you felt this sting you'd find an excuse to go be alone. What did the true loneliness bring you, if not healing?
Remove the 'people' element and suddenly everything just seems to fit together like it is supposed to. If this is so then it is obvious the sting comes from people, not from within.

I've spent so much time, so many years, thinking about this stuff now. I even know many reasons, from my past, of why I feel this way. Things fit together like puzzle pieces. It's really weird. It is a strange sort of pain to know a piece of my past, which hurts so much, is a large part of what made me who I am today. And that even if I had the capacity to change the past I would know that doing so would fundamentally change my very being. That is an odd pain, but not a sting. A dull pain that is often remedied with a hope for the future, and a true understanding of my ability to create change.
I spent a long, long time on this because I didn't always smile. I didn't always stand up for myself. I didn't always have family to turn to. And I've had a broken past. And I've known tragedy. Loneliness and pain was my entire world for the longest time. It was almost the only thing that I knew. So devoting a lot of time to understanding this was not really a choice of mine, but a necessity.

Anyway, I agree with Peaches mostly. Much of that disconnect is often from being someone who you're not. 'Pretending' with the world. That's where the sting comes from. And there is a very easy solution to that problem - stop pretending.
The loneliness? That will probably never go away. Not that you really seem to want it to, though. From what I'm reading of your posts you probably understand exactly what I'm saying. You just want the sting to go away. You accept the loneliness. The loneliness is a part of who you are.
And perhaps there is a bit of bitter flavor in this loneliness. When taken by itself it leaves a nasty taste in your mouth. But paired with the right sweetness, bitter is just fine. So many, many people do love things like chocolate and coffee, after all. Bitter but sweet. Pure sweetness is just as revolting as pure bitterness. Our lives, human beings, we need a mix of things to stay comfortable.

You've got a long road ahead of you, I think.

 

[Demian]

Well that's the thing, I don't know how to feel about that sense of "loneliness". It's not something I'm sure I wish would be gone, the same way that someone who has loved and lost would wish for those memories to be purged from their mind. I think a lot of people look at their loneliness and think "if only it could go away," the same way that an artist or a writer might look at misery and depression and think "if only it could go away." But in the same stroke, that misery and depression can be the inspiration that they never would have had otherwise.

Demian, I believe I know exactly what you mean.

I wouldn't say I'm completely fulfilled in the social department. I do not really have friends and some of my relationships are a bit broken, but I do have some family, a spouse, and kids myself. I have enough, and more importantly I can say that I do not feel lonely because I am lacking in that area. The loneliness comes from something deeper, a deeper part of myself.
Like you I also usually like to smile around others and laugh and just act like everything is perfect, even when it isn't.

Though, I won't say that the loneliness really 'stings' me anymore, exactly. I think I passed that point a long time ago. To keep your metaphor, now I stand outside at night and just watch the stars. It is beautiful. To me it is inspiration. In a way it is almost what I live for now.

The real sting seems to come from the disconnect. Between this world, who I am, and people around me. Reading your posts I'd bet you'll find this is true for you, as well. That sting is the feeling you get when you have to be someone who you really aren't. And while loneliness might accompany the sting, this is not necessarily how it has to work.

What happens if you truly are alone? Away from everyone else. To do something like go outside and enjoy the night air, far away from people, and soak in the beauty of the stars? Does it relax you and make you feel at peace, or does it sting?
I'd bet you feel at peace. Don't you? You already said that when you felt this sting you'd find an excuse to go be alone. What did the true loneliness bring you, if not healing?
Remove the 'people' element and suddenly everything just seems to fit together like it is supposed to. If this is so then it is obvious the sting comes from people, not from within.

I've spent so much time, so many years, thinking about this stuff now. I even know many reasons, from my past, of why I feel this way. Things fit together like puzzle pieces. It's really weird. It is a strange sort of pain to know a piece of my past, which hurts so much, is a large part of what made me who I am today. And that even if I had the capacity to change the past I would know that doing so would fundamentally change my very being. That is an odd pain, but not a sting. A dull pain that is often remedied with a hope for the future, and a true understanding of my ability to create change.
I spent a long, long time on this because I didn't always smile. I didn't always stand up for myself. I didn't always have family to turn to. And I've had a broken past. And I've known tragedy. Loneliness and pain was my entire world for the longest time. It was almost the only thing that I knew. So devoting a lot of time to understanding this was not really a choice of mine, but a necessity.

Anyway, I agree with Peaches mostly. Much of that disconnect is often from being someone who you're not. 'Pretending' with the world. That's where the sting comes from. And there is a very easy solution to that problem - stop pretending.
The loneliness? That will probably never go away. Not that you really seem to want it to, though. From what I'm reading of your posts you probably understand exactly what I'm saying. You just want the sting to go away. You accept the loneliness. The loneliness is a part of who you are.
And perhaps there is a bit of bitter flavor in this loneliness. When taken by itself it leaves a nasty taste in your mouth. But paired with the right sweetness, bitter is just fine. So many, many people do love things like chocolate and coffee, after all. Bitter but sweet. Pure sweetness is just as revolting as pure bitterness. Our lives, human beings, we need a mix of things to stay comfortable.

You've got a long road ahead of you, I think.

Wow, I wanted to reply to this so many times before I even got to the end. Yes, when I'm alone, I feel like I'm at peace. I remember right before college, I earned a scholarship, part of which sent me backpacking through the mountains for a month without returning to civilization. I went with other people, and the only time I really felt at peace was when we were sent on "solo" excursions. It was wonderful to me. I wasn't bored for a second. I was shocked when the group got back together, because everyone else said that they hated it.

I think what you said about "bitter" and "sweet" really is a apt analogy, and I think that's what I've slowly started to realize. There might be some sting with that feeling of "loneliness," but it sharpens the beauty, too, the same way that salt in a wounded pallet is painful but salt in the right proportions sharpens the flavor.

Thank you for your thoughts. They were very helpful.

 

[dd11]

Some of us have existential loneliness. The loneliness of the universe. Of our own significance or insignificance in the Grand Scheme. There is nothing wrong with that and those feelings. In fact, i find that if you just accept that as being part of who you are, then you just learn to manage it. I have learned there are people who NEVER feel like that. They look at you with a blank stare if you try to bring up the topic. It is just part of your nature and makeup. Some people thing more about the Big Questions. Some people are more concerned about what time is dinner and is Gray's Anatomy on tonight. Neither is right or wrong but just differing approaches and perspectives. So, you have a full life and friends and family. Give thanks. But, at times that gnawing feeling will come upon you. Embrace it for a few minutes, think about the Big questions, but then put it aside and get on with your day.

 

[Despicable Me]

Some of us have existential loneliness. The loneliness of the universe. Of our own significance or insignificance in the Grand Scheme. There is nothing wrong with that and those feelings. In fact, i find that if you just accept that as being part of who you are, then you just learn to manage it. I have learned there are people who NEVER feel like that. They look at you with a blank stare if you try to bring up the topic. It is just part of your nature and makeup. Some people thing more about the Big Questions. Some people are more concerned about what time is dinner and is Gray's Anatomy on tonight. Neither is right or wrong but just differing approaches and perspectives. So, you have a full life and friends and family. Give thanks. But, at times that gnawing feeling will come upon you. Embrace it for a few minutes, think about the Big questions, but then put it aside and get on with your day.

It is rather easy to just suggest that we all just simply take a few minutes to "think about the Big Questions" occasionally and then just throw our hands up in the air to 'get back to real life', but is that really valuable advice? Or is it just the advice you follow to get on with your own day, but to what ends? What does ignoring these thoughts and just 'living' get anyone but a foot in their grave?

I honestly have to respectfully disagree. I think more people should think about the bigger things more often. That we need to, as human beings, stop putting aside this "gnawing feeling" and stop just trying to 'get on with our day' so that we might die a little faster. I personally feel that it is our responsibility as people, as the only known beings in the universe with the capacity to think and feel and decide on our fate, to look at the 'Grand Scheme' and objectively decide, together, where we want to go.
And I disagree that it's neither right or wrong to simply only worry about your favorite TV shows or other ridiculous nonsense that does nothing but put your foot a little closer to the grave. I feel that only doing those sorts of things is morally and ethically wrong. Not that I think everyone should sit around twiddling their thumbs and thinking about "stuff" all day, but that they should practice deep thought WHILE they live their lives, and that it is our responsibility as human beings to do so and not ignore these things at all.
I've been called an *******, a jerk, arrogant, prejudiced, bigoted, a dreamer, delusional, insane, stupid, naive, ignorant, narcissistic, etc. etc. etc. because of my beliefs. I've heard it all. I really don't care anymore. I feel that many people simply just try to dismiss what they do not want to understand. Ultimately all I really want is just for humanity to be more conscious of itself... Instead of THIS. Whatever THIS is. Instead of this reckless, barbaric thing we all do now, including myself.

I'm not sure if Demian feels the same way I do about this point, perhaps not, but for me personally there is another sort of 'existential loneliness' you didn't seem to mention at all. The feeling of loneliness that one is alone in feeling there is definitely more to life than just TV shows and movie stars and then being completely rejected in ones beliefs on a global level. That is not a feeling that ever goes away. Not for a day, not for an hour, not even for a minute, for me anyway. A problem deeply rooted in society that requires fundamental social change that cannot even happen within one lifetime. A feeling that I will not live long enough to see a world that truly accepts me for who I am, if such a world should ever exist. A feeling that it may only be nothing more than a fantasy despite it being the only thing which is truly real to me.

It is therefore not a question of embracing a gnawing feeling for a few minutes, and thinking about "the Grand Scheme", and then returning to daily life. It is the problem of how to get back to daily life despite the ever growing frustration that change from within is simply just not enough.

That is what I think of when I talk about "existential loneliness".

 

[mari1969]

In my case i have friends, sisters, cousin all great people but i dont want them. They not count for me, so I feel very lonely

 

[ardour]

Hmm... I'm sure many wouldn't mind the privilege of experiencing existential loneliness, as opposed to the other kinds that involve actual isolation.

Some who feels a persistent, overwhelming loneliness while surrounded by friends and family is in my opinion a) hiding something / living a lie b) unappreciative.

Sorry, can't help thinking it.

 

[dd11]

Some of us have existential loneliness. The loneliness of the universe. Of our own significance or insignificance in the Grand Scheme. There is nothing wrong with that and those feelings. In fact, i find that if you just accept that as being part of who you are, then you just learn to manage it. I have learned there are people who NEVER feel like that. They look at you with a blank stare if you try to bring up the topic. It is just part of your nature and makeup. Some people thing more about the Big Questions. Some people are more concerned about what time is dinner and is Gray's Anatomy on tonight. Neither is right or wrong but just differing approaches and perspectives. So, you have a full life and friends and family. Give thanks. But, at times that gnawing feeling will come upon you. Embrace it for a few minutes, think about the Big questions, but then put it aside and get on with your day.

It is rather easy to just suggest that we all just simply take a few minutes to "think about the Big Questions" occasionally and then just throw our hands up in the air to 'get back to real life', but is that really valuable advice? Or is it just the advice you follow to get on with your own day, but to what ends? What does ignoring these thoughts and just 'living' get anyone but a foot in their grave?

I honestly have to respectfully disagree. I think more people should think about the bigger things more often. That we need to, as human beings, stop putting aside this "gnawing feeling" and stop just trying to 'get on with our day' so that we might die a little faster. I personally feel that it is our responsibility as people, as the only known beings in the universe with the capacity to think and feel and decide on our fate, to look at the 'Grand Scheme' and objectively decide, together, where we want to go.
And I disagree that it's neither right or wrong to simply only worry about your favorite TV shows or other ridiculous nonsense that does nothing but put your foot a little closer to the grave. I feel that only doing those sorts of things is morally and ethically wrong. Not that I think everyone should sit around twiddling their thumbs and thinking about "stuff" all day, but that they should practice deep thought WHILE they live their lives, and that it is our responsibility as human beings to do so and not ignore these things at all.
I've been called an *******, a jerk, arrogant, prejudiced, bigoted, a dreamer, delusional, insane, stupid, naive, ignorant, narcissistic, etc. etc. etc. because of my beliefs. I've heard it all. I really don't care anymore. I feel that many people simply just try to dismiss what they do not want to understand. Ultimately all I really want is just for humanity to be more conscious of itself... Instead of THIS. Whatever THIS is. Instead of this reckless, barbaric thing we all do now, including myself.

I'm not sure if Demian feels the same way I do about this point, perhaps not, but for me personally there is another sort of 'existential loneliness' you didn't seem to mention at all. The feeling of loneliness that one is alone in feeling there is definitely more to life than just TV shows and movie stars and then being completely rejected in ones beliefs on a global level. That is not a feeling that ever goes away. Not for a day, not for an hour, not even for a minute, for me anyway. A problem deeply rooted in society that requires fundamental social change that cannot even happen within one lifetime. A feeling that I will not live long enough to see a world that truly accepts me for who I am, if such a world should ever exist. A feeling that it may only be nothing more than a fantasy despite it being the only thing which is truly real to me.

It is therefore not a question of embracing a gnawing feeling for a few minutes, and thinking about "the Grand Scheme", and then returning to daily life. It is the problem of how to get back to daily life despite the ever growing frustration that change from within is simply just not enough.

That is what I think of when I talk about "existential loneliness".

Obviously, you can agree or disagree with point of view. However, in life, the ONLY person you control is You. What others "should or should not" do , think ,say or act is not something I cannot control. In my life experience, there truly are people who do not think on those kinds of questions. Personally, i could think on those kinds of questions 24/7 but it doesnt' help me to move my life forward. And, I used to believe that it was the Big Questions that matter. However over the years of my life, i now realize that the little things matter a great deal. Little things like baking a friend some cookies or giving a compliment to a waitress having a rough day or whatever. That we seem to want to wrestle with the Big things, but in reality , life is lived daily in the smallest of things.

 

[Despicable Me]

Obviously, you can agree or disagree with point of view. However, in life, the ONLY person you control is You. What others "should or should not" do , think ,say or act is not something I cannot control. In my life experience, there truly are people who do not think on those kinds of questions. Personally, i could think on those kinds of questions 24/7 but it doesnt' help me to move my life forward. And, I used to believe that it was the Big Questions that matter. However over the years of my life, i now realize that the little things matter a great deal. Little things like baking a friend some cookies or giving a compliment to a waitress having a rough day or whatever. That we seem to want to wrestle with the Big things, but in reality , life is lived daily in the smallest of things.

Well, I just wanted to point out that I disagree. I could certainly argue my case more, but I don't feel it's necessary, relevant, or appropriate right now.

But I will ask you this. How is it that we cannot 'control' others, yet at the same time something as small as baking a friend some cookies or giving someone a compliment can dramatically change things for them? Certainly we do not have absolute control over them, but I think resolving this contradiction might give you a clearer insight into the point I was trying to make. That we, as human beings, are in fact ultimately responsible for each other in so many ways, and that to deny this fact is to, essentially, deny our own humanity. If you view it this way, and see why so many of the people here all refer to problems with other people in the past causing insecurities, loneliness, etc. Then it really all comes together quite nicely.
I don't say this as to mean we have no control over ourselves, but that we are a much bigger influence in the world, in the entire universe, than we may first realize. And, again, I feel it is therefore our responsibility as people to take that seriously and truly give it some thought. I just don't feel that enough people ever really do this, and that causes a lot of my own feelings of loneliness, as well as a lot of my depression.

It's really a quite interesting discussion, I think. Maybe I will go into it more another day.

 

[dd11]

There is no point to "argue". I gave you my opinon and you gave me yours. My approach is not your approach or vice versa.

As for controlling others, baking someone cookies is an act of Kindness that "I" Do. Someone may respond pleasantly and most people do. Or, not. I dont' control how they respond. What I control is me and if that is something i choose to do then i will do it.
In a perfect world, we would all understand one another. But, we don't. We dont' all think alike. So, I think being offended that people don't see the world in the shades we do only leads to discontent. If they don't see it that way, they don't see it that way. Doesn't mean you have to change. It doesnt' mean they have to change. But, if you understadnd that, then i think it makes life much more pleasant and you also understand that people aren't necessarily being insensitive. They just don't SEE it like you or I do.

 

[Demian]

Hmm... I'm sure many wouldn't mind the privilege of experiencing existential loneliness, as opposed to the other kinds that involve actual isolation.

Some who feels a persistent, overwhelming loneliness while surrounded by friends and family is in my opinion a) hiding something / living a lie b) unappreciative.

Sorry, can't help thinking it.

Yes, someone who feels "persistent, overwhelming loneliness while surrounded by friends and family" is someone with problems, but I don't think that applies to anyone here. Having it enter your life at times at unexpected moments is another.

I think Delldonne's expression "existential loneliness" is an interesting term, and the more I think about it, the more I realize how its informed philosophy and theologians throughout the ages. I am one of those people thinking constantly of "the big picture," so I think that might be a source of that feeling. I'm always aware of how tiny I am in a Universe of unimagineable size. I think there's a little drip of Nihilism there, too.

 

[Despicable Me]

Some who feels a persistent, overwhelming loneliness while surrounded by friends and family is in my opinion a) hiding something / living a lie b) unappreciative.

Yes, someone who feels "persistent, overwhelming loneliness while surrounded by friends and family" is someone with problems, but I don't think that applies to anyone here. Having it enter your life at times at unexpected moments is another.

Ick.
Well let's just say that some of us here do have problems like that. And that someone might be me.

P.S. I think I'll go with option "a".

 

[dd11]

Well, i am not sure how someone can say ' I don't think that applies to anyone here". I think other posters can speak for themselves. Nor do i think that means you are "someone with problems".

I think there are people hwho have "existential loneliness". Not ALL. I am saying that SOME people experience that. If you don't that is great. But, that doesnt' mean that others who are "someone with problems". Sheesh.